Logs for ShadowRN and Associated Mailing Lists

From:	Fredrik Lindblom <fredrik.lindblom@******.KALMAR.SE>
Subject:	Appearance (was: Re: Attributes)
Date:	Wed, 10 Dec 1997 17:00:09 +0100

Message no. 1 At 14:05 1997-12-10 -0000, you wrote:
<snip attribs>

>If this illistrates the point, i think all we really need is the ones we
>have.

I agree completely.

>With mabye the excetpion of Apearence(Unchangeable after the start
>without cosmetic surgery[i like this idea]).

Appearance, IMHO, is covered rather well with the "Good looking" merit vs
"ugly" flaw, instead of adding another attribute. They need only affect
social tests if the GM wants them to. Not everybody is a sucker for a
pretty face or a sexy body, but hey, them hormones can be a tricky lot... :)

Something like this perhaps:

pts merit/flaw rough description
-4 Seriously Disfigured Face and body burned or scarred beyond recognition
with underlying bone structure visibly damaged and
not surgically repaired. Scary mutants and toxic
waste victims.
Imposes a +3 TN on all social skill tests where
the character is actually seen by the other person.
Exception: May grant a -2 TN on intimidation,
interrogation and similar tests. (GM's call)

-3 Disfigured Face and/or body is burned or scarred beyond
recognition.
Imposes a +2 TN on all social skill tests where
the character is actually seen by the other person.
Exception: May grant a -1 TN on intimidation,
interrogation and similar tests. (GM's call)

-2 Really Ugly The kind of person you whose ugliness you really
notice when he/she passes you on the street.
Imposes a +1 TN on all social skill tests where
the character is actually seen by the other person.
This modifier does not apply to intimidation,
interrogation or similar tests.

-1 Ugly An ugly person. No TN modifiers.

0 Average Your average person.

1 Good-looking A good-looking person. No TN modifiers.

2 Very good-looking The kind of person you whose good looks you really
notice when he/she passes you on the street.
Grants a -1 TN modifiers for social skill tests
against members of the opposite sex, provided that
person actually sees the character (and is of the
appropriate sexual persuasion :-).
This modifier may not apply to intimidation,
interrogation or similar tests. (GM's call)

3 Stunningly beautiful Miss universe-winners and simsense stars. Need I
say more?
Grants a -2 TN modifiers for social skill tests
against members of the opposite sex, provided that
person actually sees the character etc.
This modifier may not apply to intimidation,
interrogation or similar tests. (GM's call)

Note that this includes both face and body.

This IMHO, rather well defines points-wise how important looks really are.
"Stunningly beautiful" costs a measly 3 points while charisma 6 will set
you back some 12 points...

Cosmetic surgery can change a person's appearance. Each step in the table
below must be paid for individually, so going from "Average" to "Stunningly
beautiful" will cost you 70k nuyen and 0.15 essence. The table assumes you
want to _improve_ your looks, that is why "Seriously Disfigured" is not
included. Going from "Seriously Disfigured" to "Disfigured" is what
costs
0.1 essence.

You pay for the level you go _to_. This includes cases where you just want
to change your looks, not the level of your looks. For example, re-building
your "Average" face into a new "Average" face costs 5k nY.

desired essence nuyen
effect cost cost notes

Disfigured 0.1 30,000
Really Ugly 0.05 20,000
Ugly 0 10,000
Average 0 5,000
Good-looking 0 10,000
R. Good-looking 0.05 20,000
S. Beautiful 0.1 40,000 This requires full-body reconstructive surgery
and sometimes gene-therapy.

Street index is 1. Availability is 2/24.

The 0.1-essence jobs are treated as invasive surgery, since they require
parts of the skeleton to be heavily modified.

High-quality cosmetic jobs are available at the same prices and essence
cost reductions as alpha, beta and delta cyber. To spot a regular cosmetic
job, roll vs concealability 9, alpha grade has TN 16 while beta grade has
TN 26. Delta grade cosmetic jobs cannot be detected. Low-quality jobs on
the other hand has essence cost doubled (yes, the double of zero is still
zero), nuyen cost halved and concealability 5.

And remember, beauty is a very subjective thing. "Beautiful" is what you
and your players think it is.

Hey! Gimme some feedback on this and it might be something for TSS! ;-)
(unless somebody did this before me...)

/FL

From:	Mon goose <landsquid@*******.COM>
Subject:	Re: Appearance (was: Re: Attributes)
Date:	Wed, 10 Dec 1997 10:44:16 PST

Message no. 2 <snip appearance edge table, with mods to social tests and almost
reversed mods for intimidation and interrogation>

I think the "interrogation / intimidation" modifiers are off. Are
you sayng beutifal people are not intimidating? Surely it is easier to
intimidate when you outclass your target. Similarly, the disfigured
wretch is as likely to elicit pity as fear- no modifier.
Several guides to interrogation I've read have emphasized the
importance of creating a "sympathy" with the intorogatee to actually
gain much information. Also, the situation goes to your advantage if
the interogatee feels a need to comply with your wishes. Beuty would
also be much more useful there than uglyness. Remeber, interrogation is
a concentration of Negotiation.

Also, those surgery essence costs seem high- no new nueral connection is
assumed. In fact, its less invasive than grafting on replacement limbs
and organs. I guess the "astral template" factor might play a roll,
depending on your view.

Mongoose / Technological progress is like an ax in the hands
of a psychotic - Einstein

get sucked into -The Vortex- Chicago's shadowland BBS
http://www.concentric.net/~evamarie/srmain.htm

______________________________________________________
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From:	Jeremiah Stevens <jeremiah@********.EDU>
Subject:	Re: Appearance (was: Re: Attributes)
Date:	Wed, 10 Dec 1997 15:26:00 -0500

Message no. 3 On Wed, 10 Dec 1997, Fredrik Lindblom wrote:

>
> desired essence nuyen
> effect cost cost notes
>
> Disfigured 0.1 30,000
> Really Ugly 0.05 20,000
> Ugly 0 10,000
> Average 0 5,000
> Good-looking 0 10,000
> R. Good-looking 0.05 20,000
> S. Beautiful 0.1 40,000 This requires full-body reconstructive surgery
> and sometimes gene-therapy.
>
> Street index is 1. Availability is 2/24.
>
> The 0.1-essence jobs are treated as invasive surgery, since they require
> parts of the skeleton to be heavily modified.
>
Overall, these are good rules, however, I would change the essence to body
index cost.

From:	Zixx <t_berghoff@*********.NETSURF.DE>
Subject:	Re: Appearance (was: Re: Attributes)
Date:	Wed, 10 Dec 1997 22:14:57 +0000

Message no. 4 On 10 Dec 97 at 17:00, Fredrik Lindblom wrote:

[Snip Edges&Flaws]

I really like the basic idea, though I'd makr the edges more expensive.
With that costs, you will have quite a lot of super-model-only groups (I
know that one of my players would always take 'stunning beatiful')

> This IMHO, rather well defines points-wise how important looks really are.
> "Stunningly beautiful" costs a measly 3 points while charisma 6 will set
> you back some 12 points...

I'd double the cost for the edges, to even it uo a bit more...
That way, being a simstim star costs six points and that's not actually
cheap

> You pay for the level you go _to_. This includes cases where you just want
> to change your looks, not the level of your looks. For example, re-building
> your "Average" face into a new "Average" face costs 5k nY.
>
> desired essence nuyen
> effect cost cost notes
>
> Disfigured 0.1 30,000
> Really Ugly 0.05 20,000
> Ugly 0 10,000
> Average 0 5,000
> Good-looking 0 10,000
> R. Good-looking 0.05 20,000
> S. Beautiful 0.1 40,000 This requires full-body reconstructive surgery
> and sometimes gene-therapy.

Again, I'd make it more expensive. Especially since a gene therapy costs
50k minimum and when dealing with really disfigured and stunningly beatiful
people, you would have to do some serious rebuilding (maybe 100kY each).

> Street index is 1. Availability is 2/24.

I'd say that depends on what you want. Just reworking you average face into
another average face is ok, but as soon as you get to the more extreme
stuff...I mean how many street cutters do you know, who can deal with
deformed bones?

> Hey! Gimme some feedback on this and it might be something for TSS! ;-)
> (unless somebody did this before me...)

Basically, I like it and I'm going to use it.

--

The worms, they live in every host,
It's hard to pick which one they eat the most
-Marilyn Manson, the beautiful people

Tobias Berghoff a.k.a Zixx a.k.a. Charon, your friendly werepanther physad.

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t+(++) 5+ X++ R* tv b++ DI(+) D++ G>++
e>+++++(*) h! r-- z?
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK-------------

From:	Adam J <fro@***.AB.CA>
Subject:	Re: Appearance (was: Re: Attributes)
Date:	Wed, 10 Dec 1997 15:44:51 -0700

Message no. 5 At 17:00 12/10/97 +0100, you wrote:

>Something like this perhaps:
>
>pts merit/flaw rough description

<snipped>

One thing I don't like about these is the "Against the opposite sex" bit.
I think that a very beautiful male or female is just as likely to influence
and intimidate as someone of the opposite sex would.

>Note that this includes both face and body.

Yes, this will create some great situations.
"I was in a car accident and horrible burned, but I'm still a perfect
barbie hourglass, I just have to wear a bag over my head."

>This IMHO, rather well defines points-wise how important looks really are.
>"Stunningly beautiful" costs a measly 3 points while charisma 6 will set
>you back some 12 points...

Charisma *is* more than looks, certainly in my game. I know some very
lovely looking people with the personality of a rattlesnake..they may be
good looking, but their charisma is somewhere around 2 or 3, in my mind.

So yes, this further helps to pull charisma and looks apart, and that's
good, IMO.

>desired essence nuyen
>effect cost cost notes
>
>Disfigured 0.1 30,000
>Really Ugly 0.05 20,000
>Ugly 0 10,000
>Average 0 5,000
>Good-looking 0 10,000
>R. Good-looking 0.05 20,000
>S. Beautiful 0.1 40,000 This requires full-body reconstructive
surgery
> and sometimes gene-therapy.

I'm not sure what real life surgery costs are, but these seem a bit low.
Maybe a limit of two "jumps" up the scale, so from Average you can only go
to Real good looking. Although SR surgery may be so advanced, this limit
may not be needed.

>Hey! Gimme some feedback on this and it might be something for TSS! ;-)
>(unless somebody did this before me...)

I've never seen anything like this before, not that I can remember. (And
if you can't remember, then it obviously wasn't good, even if you did see
it..)

-Adam J

-
http://shadowrun.home.ml.org \ TSS Productions \ The Shadowrun Supplemental
ShadowRN Assistant Fearless Leader \ AdamJ@******** \ fro@***.ab.ca
The Shadowrun Archive Co-Maintainer: http://www.interware.it/shadowrun

From:	Barbie <barbie@**********.COM>
Subject:	Re: Appearance (was: Re: Attributes)
Date:	Wed, 10 Dec 1997 23:41:59 +0100

Message no. 6 At 10-Dez-97 wrote Zixx:

>Again, I'd make it more expensive. Especially since a gene therapy costs
>50k minimum and when dealing with really disfigured and stunningly beatiful
>people, you would have to do some serious rebuilding (maybe 100kY each).

Barbie has paid nearly a million for her appearance change on top of the
genetic change. :)

--

Barbie
---------------------------------------------------------------
Did you know what a rhinoceros is?
All that is left from the unicorn.

http://www.amigaworld.com/barbie
FAQ keeper of SR_D, the german Shadowrun mailing list.
Amiga RC5 Team effort member.
---------------------------------------------------------------

From:	Barbie <barbie@**********.COM>
Subject:	Re: Appearance (was: Re: Attributes)
Date:	Thu, 11 Dec 1997 00:17:59 +0100

Message no. 7 At 10-Dez-97 wrote Adam J:

>Yes, this will create some great situations.
>"I was in a car accident and horrible burned, but I'm still a perfect
>barbie hourglass, I just have to wear a bag over my head."

<grin>

>I'm not sure what real life surgery costs are, but these seem a bit low.

Yep, for today the prices will go x10 and up for the higher levels,
but in SR I would say that the prices can stand as they are.

>Maybe a limit of two "jumps" up the scale, so from Average you can only go
>to Real good looking. Although SR surgery may be so advanced, this limit
>may not be needed.

Perhaps, if someone goes over two steps tripple the prices to reflect
the increased difficulty of the surgery.

--

Barbie
---------------------------------------------------------------
Did you know what a rhinoceros is?
All that is left from the unicorn.

http://www.amigaworld.com/barbie
FAQ keeper of SR_D, the german Shadowrun mailing list.
Amiga RC5 Team effort member.
---------------------------------------------------------------

From:	"Simon.M" <Simon.M@**********.COM>
Subject:	Re: Appearance (was: Re: Attributes)
Date:	Thu, 11 Dec 1997 01:11:21 -0000

Message no. 8 >>Again, I'd make it more expensive. Especially since a gene therapy costs
>>50k minimum and when dealing with really disfigured and stunningly
beatiful
>>people, you would have to do some serious rebuilding (maybe 100kY each).
>
>Barbie has paid nearly a million for her appearance change on top of the
>genetic change. :)

Ahhhhhhh, but i'd bet it's worth every penny!

::::B-}>

From:	"Simon.M" <Simon.M@**********.COM>
Subject:	Re: Appearance (was: Re: Attributes)
Date:	Thu, 11 Dec 1997 01:06:38 -0000

Message no. 9 <snip interogation bits>

hay, if your right and it's not the looks, but the act, it isn't really a
matter of Apearance, but of Chrisma

From:	Fredrik Lindblom <fredrik.lindblom@******.KALMAR.SE>
Subject:	Re: Appearance (was: Re: Attributes)
Date:	Thu, 11 Dec 1997 10:37:35 +0100

Message no. 10 At 10:44 1997-12-10 PST, Mon goose wrote:

> I think the "interrogation / intimidation" modifiers are off.
<snip>

Hmmm...yeah, they probably are. I was thinking about horror movies and
such, and SR has no "save vs fear" or anything... :-) But you're right.

>Also, those surgery essence costs seem high- no new nueral connection is
>assumed. In fact, its less invasive than grafting on replacement limbs
>and organs. I guess the "astral template" factor might play a roll,
>depending on your view.

Yes, I do have the "astral template" view and I assumed that in the more
extreme cases (top and bottom of scale) you have to re-work so much that it
actually interferes with the nervous system. I also added it to make
players think twice before getting that "stunningly beautiful" surgery...
Most players are extremely careful with what they do with their essence.
Keeps them munchkins from all starting out "disfigured" and ending up
"stunning". They'll want to keep their essence for wired 3 :-)

At 15:26 1997-12-10 -0500, Jeremiah Stevens wrote:
>Overall, these are good rules, however, I would change the essence to body
>index cost.

Hmmm... might be something to consider. Anybody else got a thought on this?

At 22:14 1997-12-10 +0000, Zixx wrote:
>I really like the basic idea, though I'd makr the edges more expensive.
>With that costs, you will have quite a lot of super-model-only groups (I
>know that one of my players would always take 'stunning beatiful')

Well, this has more to do with your group than the rules. There are other,
cheaper, edges that are more prone to abuse, IMHO. A super-model-only group
is also quite cinematic, donchathink? ;)

>Again, I'd make it more expensive. <snip>

I believe that cosmetic surgery is the most common type of elective surgery
in the 2050s, therefore the nuyen prices should be fairly low. But just
maybe I made it a little _too_ low... And, yes, each type of surgery
probably needs its own street index/availability.

And compared to what you can get for spending, say, two points on another
edge, the "looks" edges are not very powerful. "Good reputation" at
two
points does the same thing as "stunningly beautiful" at three points, for
example.

At 15:44 1997-12-10 -0700, Adam J wrote:
>One thing I don't like about these is the "Against the opposite sex" bit.

Well, I dunno if it's my hormones talking, but personally I'm a lot more of
a sucker for a pretty girl than a pretty guy... :-P But, OK, I'll make this
a "GMs choice" then (wow, am I a nice guy or what? ;-)

>Charisma *is* more than looks, certainly in my game. I know some very
>lovely looking people with the personality of a rattlesnake..they may be
>good looking, but their charisma is somewhere around 2 or 3, in my mind.
>
>So yes, this further helps to pull charisma and looks apart, and that's
>good, IMO.

I'm happy to hear somebody else sees this the same way as I do! :)

***

Anyway, thanks for the feedback! I'll wait another day for more comments,
then I'll update this based on your ideas and post the "2.0" version... :)

To do:
Increase nuyen costs
Ditch intimidation TN modifiers
Individual availability/street index
Essence cost or body index?
More?

/FL

From:	Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject:	Re: Appearance (was: Re: Attributes)
Date:	Thu, 11 Dec 1997 10:53:04 +0100

Message no. 11 Mon goose said on 10:44/10 Dec 97...

> Remeber, interrogation is a concentration of Negotiation.

Not in SR... it's a skill that's separated by one dot from Negotiation on
the skill web.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html - 5044116
N.B. Please do not read the lyrics while listening to the recordings.
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
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------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------

From:	William Gallas <wgallas@*****.FR>
Subject:	Re: Appearance (was: Re: Attributes)
Date:	Thu, 11 Dec 1997 11:08:29 +0100

Message no. 12 >Yes, I do have the "astral template" view and I assumed that in the more
>extreme cases (top and bottom of scale) you have to re-work so much that it
>actually interferes with the nervous system. I also added it to make
>players think twice before getting that "stunningly beautiful" surgery...
>Most players are extremely careful with what they do with their essence.
>Keeps them munchkins from all starting out "disfigured" and ending up
>"stunning". They'll want to keep their essence for wired 3 :-)

Remember too that extreme appearances make you more noticeable. I remember
James Bond RPG where beauty was a flaw because it made you more
recogniceable. For a shadowrunner, it could be difficult to assume too. If
you're really beautiful or hideous, you will probably be more easily
identified by bystanders in the case of a Lone Star investigation...

>>Overall, these are good rules, however, I would change the essence to body
>>index cost.

I think so too.

>Well, this has more to do with your group than the rules. There are other,
>cheaper, edges that are more prone to abuse, IMHO. A super-model-only group
>is also quite cinematic, donchathink? ;)

I agree.

>I believe that cosmetic surgery is the most common type of elective surgery
>in the 2050s, therefore the nuyen prices should be fairly low. But just
>maybe I made it a little _too_ low... And, yes, each type of surgery
>probably needs its own street index/availability.

That's my POV too. Perhaps it's a bit too expensive IMO. I think minor
modifications (1 point modification) is quite cheap but more evasive ones
could be more expensive. A change of more than 2 points will make you look
like someone different.

>And compared to what you can get for spending, say, two points on another
>edge, the "looks" edges are not very powerful. "Good reputation"
at two
>points does the same thing as "stunningly beautiful" at three points, for
>example.

I'm fine with the points cost.

>Well, I dunno if it's my hormones talking, but personally I'm a lot more of
>a sucker for a pretty girl than a pretty guy... :-P But, OK, I'll make this
>a "GMs choice" then (wow, am I a nice guy or what? ;-)

IMO, it effectively affect opposite sex. The way you affect your own gender
is by the use of charisma instead of beauty. But then, you will discuss
more easily with Brad Pitt than with Elephant man...

>Anyway, thanks for the feedback! I'll wait another day for more comments,
>then I'll update this based on your ideas and post the "2.0" version... :)

You're welcome.

Cobra.

E-mail adress : wgallas@*****.fr
Quote : "You are who you know"

From:	William Gallas <wgallas@*****.FR>
Subject:	Re: Appearance (was: Re: Attributes)
Date:	Thu, 11 Dec 1997 11:12:05 +0100

Message no. 13 >> Remeber, interrogation is a concentration of Negotiation.
>
>Not in SR... it's a skill that's separated by one dot from Negotiation on
>the skill web.

It is. Take a look at the SR Companion in the chapter about intimidation...

Cobra.

E-mail adress : wgallas@*****.fr
Quote : "You are who you know"

From:	Barbie <barbie@**********.COM>
Subject:	Re: Appearance (was: Re: Attributes)
Date:	Thu, 11 Dec 1997 02:54:00 +0100

Message no. 14 At 11-Dez-97 wrote Simon.M:

>>>Again, I'd make it more expensive. Especially since a gene therapy costs
>>>50k minimum and when dealing with really disfigured and stunningly
>beatiful
>>>people, you would have to do some serious rebuilding (maybe 100kY each).
>>
>>Barbie has paid nearly a million for her appearance change on top of the
>>genetic change. :)

>Ahhhhhhh, but i'd bet it's worth every penny!

It is, believe me, she`s a NovaStart simsense performer.<grin>

--

Barbie
---------------------------------------------------------------
Did you know what a rhinoceros is?
All that is left from the unicorn.

http://www.amigaworld.com/barbie
FAQ keeper of SR_D, the german Shadowrun mailing list.
Amiga RC5 Team effort member.
---------------------------------------------------------------

From:	Barbie <barbie@**********.COM>
Subject:	Re: Appearance (was: Re: Attributes)
Date:	Thu, 11 Dec 1997 12:25:02 +0100

Message no. 15 At 11-Dez-97 wrote William Gallas:

>Remember too that extreme appearances make you more noticeable. I remember
>James Bond RPG where beauty was a flaw because it made you more
>recogniceable. For a shadowrunner, it could be difficult to assume too. If
>you're really beautiful or hideous, you will probably be more easily
>identified by bystanders in the case of a Lone Star investigation...

Oh, thats so true....
--

Barbie
---------------------------------------------------------------
Did you know what a rhinoceros is?
All that is left from the unicorn.

http://www.amigaworld.com/barbie
FAQ keeper of SR_D, the german Shadowrun mailing list.
Amiga RC5 Team effort member.
---------------------------------------------------------------

From:	Zixx <t_berghoff@*********.NETSURF.DE>
Subject:	Re: Appearance (was: Re: Attributes)
Date:	Thu, 11 Dec 1997 17:45:27 +0000

Message no. 16 On 11 Dec 97 at 1:11, Simon.M wrote:

> >>Again, I'd make it more expensive. Especially since a gene therapy costs
> >>50k minimum and when dealing with really disfigured and stunningly
> beatiful
> >>people, you would have to do some serious rebuilding (maybe 100kY each).
> >
> >Barbie has paid nearly a million for her appearance change on top of the
> >genetic change. :)
>
>
> Ahhhhhhh, but i'd bet it's worth every penny!

Take a look at http://www.amigaworld.com/barbie/characters/barbieframe.html
and judge yourself (methinks: Four fingers just ain't enough! :))

--

"Happy birthday, self!"
-me

From:	Zixx <t_berghoff@*********.NETSURF.DE>
Subject:	Re: Appearance (was: Re: Attributes)
Date:	Thu, 11 Dec 1997 17:45:27 +0000

Message no. 17 On 10 Dec 97 at 23:41, Barbie wrote:

> >Again, I'd make it more expensive. Especially since a gene therapy costs
> >50k minimum and when dealing with really disfigured and stunningly beatiful
> >people, you would have to do some serious rebuilding (maybe 100kY each).
>
> Barbie has paid nearly a million for her appearance change on top of the
> genetic change. :)

Hey, ask Lolo Ferrari. The guy who built the Boeing 747 designed her
breasts, I wonder what that costs (though she should have spend more on her
face ;)))

--

"Happy birthday, self!"
-me

From:	Zixx <t_berghoff@*********.NETSURF.DE>
Subject:	Re: Appearance (was: Re: Attributes)
Date:	Thu, 11 Dec 1997 17:45:27 +0000

Message no. 18 On 11 Dec 97 at 10:37, Fredrik Lindblom wrote:

> >I really like the basic idea, though I'd makr the edges more expensive.
> >With that costs, you will have quite a lot of super-model-only groups (I
> >know that one of my players would always take 'stunning beatiful')
>
> Well, this has more to do with your group than the rules. There are other,
> cheaper, edges that are more prone to abuse, IMHO. A super-model-only group
> is also quite cinematic, donchathink? ;)

Well, if our game was cinematic, I'd say 'yes'. But we have a much more
realistic and, well dirty game...

> >Again, I'd make it more expensive. <snip>
>
> I believe that cosmetic surgery is the most common type of elective surgery
> in the 2050s, therefore the nuyen prices should be fairly low. But just
> maybe I made it a little _too_ low... And, yes, each type of surgery
> probably needs its own street index/availability.

The problem is that 'off the shelf' mods are probably pretty cheap.
"Give them the 'Jonny Axe'-eys, for the mouth...'Dunkelzahn, human form'
and a 'James Booth'-jar. That'll take about half an hour, we do that twice
a day."
But if you don't want to look like 2000 other people in your street alone,
you will have to pay a lot more.

> And compared to what you can get for spending, say, two points on another
> edge, the "looks" edges are not very powerful. "Good reputation"
at two
> points does the same thing as "stunningly beautiful" at three points, for
> example.

Yeah, maybe I just want less people, who are stunningly beautiful, then
people, who have a good reputation....

--

"Happy birthday, self!"
-me

From:	Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject:	Re: Appearance (was: Re: Attributes)
Date:	Thu, 11 Dec 1997 19:58:48 +0100

Message no. 19 William Gallas said on 11:12/11 Dec 97...

> >> Remeber, interrogation is a concentration of Negotiation.
> >
> >Not in SR... it's a skill that's separated by one dot from Negotiation on
> >the skill web.
>
> It is. Take a look at the SR Companion in the chapter about intimidation...

No, it isn't. You're talking about intimidation, not interrogation.
Intimidation is making someone scared of you, interrogation is extracting
information from them. When interrogating, intimidation can be useful,
sure, but the two aren't the same thing.

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From:	William Gallas <wgallas@*****.FR>
Subject:	Re: Appearance (was: Re: Attributes)
Date:	Fri, 12 Dec 1997 09:56:09 +0100

Message no. 20 >No, it isn't. You're talking about intimidation, not interrogation.
>Intimidation is making someone scared of you, interrogation is extracting
>information from them. When interrogating, intimidation can be useful,
>sure, but the two aren't the same thing.

Oops! excuse me, I effectively read intimidation on the post...

Cobra.

E-mail adress : wgallas@*****.fr
Quote : "You are who you know"

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