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Message no. 1
From: Paolo Marcucci <marcucci@***.TS.ASTRO.IT>
Subject: A question of vision
Date: Mon, 13 Dec 1993 10:00:42 MET
Hi,

there is a villain breaking in a house where a woman is doing
simsense recording. She sees him while attached to the simsense
recorder.

Later, the PCs get their hands on the chip with the raw data. They
use it and see the man.

Now: if the man was using a mask spell, what face the PCs are looking,
the real one or the masked?

Our GM says that magic and tech don't work together, so you see the
real face, but I think that what we see is the _impression_ of the
face, not its appearance. (uhm, hope you get the idea...:) So we see
the masked face.

Comments?
--
_____________________________________________________________________
Paolo Marcucci Osservatorio Astronomico di Trieste
marcucci@***.ts.astro.it Via G.B. Tiepolo, 11 - 34134 Trieste, Italy
marcucci@***.trieste.it Ph. +39-40-3199215 Fax: +39-40-309418
_____________________________________________________________________
Message no. 2
From: Thomas Frost <frost@******.UMD.EDU>
Subject: Re: A question of vision
Date: Mon, 13 Dec 1993 10:11:20 -0500
In message <199312130858.DAA10500@******.umiacs.UMD.EDU>,
marcucci@***.ts.astro .it writes:

> there is a villain breaking in a house where a woman is doing
> simsense recording. She sees him while attached to the simsense
> recorder.
>
> Later, the PCs get their hands on the chip with the raw data. They
> use it and see the man.
>
> Now: if the man was using a mask spell, what face the PCs are looking,
> the real one or the masked?

Interesting question! I'd run it down it as follows:

Mask spells work by channelling mana (astral energy) to manipulate the
visual cortex. They can't manipulate cameras, since these don't
*have* visual cortices. The simsense stuff records what the visual
cortex is picking up (NOT the raw data from the retinae, IMHO).
Therefore:

-- Mask will hide a person on a simsense recording. The spell affects
the person making the recording.

-- Mask does NOT work on someone *watching* a surveillance camera.
You might still cast an illusion spell of some sort.

-- Mask works on someone with cyber eyes, since it affects the visual
cortex and not the eyes proper.

-- Mask does NOT work on someone watching a (non-simsense) recording.
You might still cast some kind of illusion spell.

Make sense?

--
Spoken: Thomas (Frost) | "The rats eat the cats,
Smart: frost@******.umd.edu | the cats eat the rats,
Not smart: umiacs!frost | and we get the skins for free!"
Message no. 3
From: Paolo Marcucci <marcucci@***.TS.ASTRO.IT>
Subject: Re: A question of vision
Date: Mon, 13 Dec 1993 17:27:59 MET
>
> -- Mask will hide a person on a simsense recording. The spell affects
> the person making the recording.
>
> -- Mask does NOT work on someone *watching* a surveillance camera.
> You might still cast an illusion spell of some sort.
>
> -- Mask works on someone with cyber eyes, since it affects the visual
> cortex and not the eyes proper.
>
> -- Mask does NOT work on someone watching a (non-simsense) recording.
> You might still cast some kind of illusion spell.
>
> Make sense?
>

No, make SIM-sense :)

Argh, no, the mighty THWAP.... no, noooooo



thwap

--
_____________________________________________________________________
Paolo Marcucci Osservatorio Astronomico di Trieste
marcucci@***.ts.astro.it Via G.B. Tiepolo, 11 - 34134 Trieste, Italy
marcucci@***.trieste.it Ph. +39-40-3199215 Fax: +39-40-309418
_____________________________________________________________________
Message no. 4
From: BLUE THE WANDERER <KNEBELR@******.BITNET>
Subject: Re: A question of vision
Date: Mon, 13 Dec 1993 11:18:45 -0500
As for the "Masked Face" and a simsense recorder, I must agree with
your GM. To me, the spell would work like an illusion, only fooling
your mind. In other words, you would think you saw what you saw, and
not what was actually there. The recorder, on the other hand, would
not be fooled by such magick.

**********************************************************************
Rob Knebel | Reality is but a cruel mix of
The Blue Frog | cat-and-mouse and dog-eat-dog,
Wabash College | but we're just lost forever in
knebelr@****** | an empty fishbowl...
Be free, and be original, or we are all damned...forever...to Hell.
Message no. 5
From: The Deb Decker <RJR96326@****.UTULSA.EDU>
Subject: Re: A question of vision
Date: Mon, 13 Dec 1993 14:56:10 -0600
>there is a villain breaking in a house where a woman is doing
>simsense recording. She sees him while attached to the simsense
>recorder.

>Now: if the man was using a mask spell, what face the PCs are looking,
>the real one or the masked?

I would say they see whatever the subject saw.

>not what was actually there. The recorder, on the other hand, would
>not be fooled by such magick.

But the recorder is recording from the brain, so if the brain is fooled,
the recorder is fooled.

At this point you need to decide if there's a distinct difference
between the brain and the mind. For instance, if the spell only affects
the aura and thus spirit/soul/whatever inhabiting the body, but the brain
still "records" the image, then the mask spell will have no effect.


Really, I could see this operating either way. Sounds like a good question
for the DLoH.

J Roberson
Message no. 6
From: The Deb Decker <RJR96326@****.UTULSA.EDU>
Subject: Re: A question of vision
Date: Mon, 13 Dec 1993 15:23:31 -0600
>-- Mask works on someone with cyber eyes, since it affects the visual
>cortex and not the eyes proper.

Right for the wrong reasons. Cybereyes, because they've had Essence to
pay for them, are considered natural and therefore do not count as
electronic imaging systems under the rules.

J Roberson
Message no. 7
From: Nightfox <DJWA@******.UCC.NAU.EDU>
Subject: Re: A question of vision
Date: Mon, 13 Dec 1993 14:41:33 -0700
>>not what was actually there. The recorder, on the other hand, would
>>not be fooled by such magick.
>
>But the recorder is recording from the brain, so if the brain is fooled,
>the recorder is fooled.
>
>At this point you need to decide if there's a distinct difference
>between the brain and the mind. For instance, if the spell only affects
>the aura and thus spirit/soul/whatever inhabiting the body, but the brain
>still "records" the image, then the mask spell will have no effect.

According to ShadowBeat - it is common practice to use magic for special effects
and other things during symsense.

Also with a mana spell, the magic is focused into the person through their aura.
But it then has no difference between it a physical spell, and effects the body
normally. A physical spell effects the body through itseld while mana spells
funnel it through the aura into the body. Either way the person/brain is fooled
and the simsense recorder gets the false image.


BOINGEE!!!BOINGEE!!!BOINGEE!!!BOINGEE!!!BOINGEE!!!BOINGEE!!!BOINGEE!!!BOINGEE!!!
Daniel Waisley + SCA - March of Ered Sul - Flagstaff AZ
DJWA@******.UCC.NAU.EDU + Nau fencing club.
"Nightfox" + Brotherhood of the Cryptic Demesne -household
BOINGEE!!!BOINGEE!!!BOINGEE!!!BOINGEE!!!BOINGEE!!!BOINGEE!!!BOINGEE!!!BOINGEE!!!
GE - d+(-) -p+@ c++(++++) !L u(--) e+(*) m+ s+/ !n+(-) h* f+ g+ w+++ t+ r+ y+
"infinity = zero" - Daniel Waisley "Nightfox"
BOINGEE!!!BOINGEE!!!BOINGEE!!!BOINGEE!!!BOINGEE!!!BOINGEE!!!BOINGEE!!!BOINGEE!!!
Message no. 8
From: BLUE THE WANDERER <KNEBELR@******.BITNET>
Subject: Re: A question of vision
Date: Mon, 13 Dec 1993 20:41:42 -0500
oops...i must correct my earlier statement...

since the simsense recorder actually records what you see, then it
would record the Masked image. when i replied, i wasn't thinking in
terms of simsense.

**********************************************************************
Rob Knebel | Reality is but a cruel mix of
The Blue Frog | cat-and-mouse and dog-eat-dog,
Wabash College | but we're just lost forever in
knebelr@****** | an empty fishbowl...
Be free, and be original, or we are all damned...forever...to Hell.

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Thwap!