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From:	Arcady arcady@***.net
Subject:	Area effect and spell targeting, cover your eyes
Date:	Mon, 9 Aug 1999 09:48:55 +700

Message no. 1 Hello;

I suspect my players are going to try this. And if they don't this week; I can
be sure to see it eventually.

A mage is casting an area effect spell like powerball in a small contained room...

To limit who gets hit he covers one eye and cups the other such that he only
sees some of the people.

How would you rule it?

Half the party is in front or to the side of him, the other half behind. A hostage
and several opponants in front and he's trying to obscure vision to only some
of the people. The room is small enough that the entire 6m radius spell would
fill it 1 and a half times.

Which bring up another question.

If a physical damaging area effect spell is cast up against a wall and does
not blow through the wall will it double back on everyone like explosions do?
I know an elemental spell will, but what about something like powerball?

From:	Wordman wordman@*******.com
Subject:	Area effect and spell targeting, cover your eyes
Date:	Mon, 9 Aug 1999 13:13:25 -0400

Message no. 2 > To limit who gets hit he covers one eye and cups the other such
> that he only
> sees some of the people.
>
> How would you rule it?

I'd allow it to limit the target. On the other hand, I'd allow the spells
like Powerball to target only who the caster wishes, so my ruling may not be
typical.

> If a physical damaging area effect spell is cast up against a
> wall and does
> not blow through the wall will it double back on everyone like
> explosions do?
> I know an elemental spell will, but what about something like powerball?

I'd say no. Powerball never seemed explosive to me. It is just the act of
creating a sphere, into which you can pump destructive mana into something.
Elemental effects grow outward from the target point, but not powerballs.

From:	Patrick Goodman remo@***.net
Subject:	Area effect and spell targeting, cover your eyes
Date:	Mon, 09 Aug 1999 12:56:32 -0500

Message no. 3 >A mage is casting an area effect spell like powerball in a small
>contained room...
>
>To limit who gets hit he covers one eye and cups the other such that
>he only sees some of the people.
>
>How would you rule it?

Been there, done that. All he's limiting by fiddling with his line of
sight like that is where the radius of the AOE spell is situated. You
can't, however, limit the area of effect in that fashion. The only way to
limit the AOE is to pull your punch and cast the spell at a lesser Force.

>Half the party is in front or to the side of him, the other half behind.
>A hostage and several opponants in front and he's trying to obscure
> vision to only some of the people. The room is small enough that the
>entire 6m radius spell would fill it 1 and a half times.

Everyone in the room, to include the mage, is in a boatload of trouble.

>If a physical damaging area effect spell is cast up against a wall and
>does not blow through the wall will it double back on everyone like
>explosions do? I know an elemental spell will, but what about something
>like powerball?

I say no, but I'm notorious for being gentle at the wrong moments.

Patrick

From:	runnerpaul@***.com runnerpaul@***.com
Subject:	Area effect and spell targeting, cover your eyes
Date:	Mon, 9 Aug 1999 14:18:31 -0400 (EDT)

Message no. 4 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

At 09:48 AM 8/9/99 +0700, Arcady wrote:
:A mage is casting an area effect spell like powerball in a small
:contained room...
:
:To limit who gets hit he covers one eye and cups the other such that
: he only sees some of the people.
:
:How would you rule it?

"No sir; I don't like it." -- Mr. Horse, Ren & Stimpy

Now, here's why:

SR2 Grimoire, p.110, How Spells Work:
"Spellcasting is a matter of intention and mental control. For
example, brash young sorcerers often attempt to aim an area-effect
spell through a pinhole to limit the effect to a single target, and
then wonder why the spell misfires under such circumstances. Might as
well ask a painter wearing tinted lenses why the color values in a
painting are false. How can a magician capture the universe-embracing
exaltation of spirit that is the key to magic when he is playing such
mind games with himself?
...
One definition of magic is the ability to go mad in a very specific
way for a limited time. From the psychological viewpoint, a spell is
an induced neurosis or even a psychosis, created for a split second
to channel psychic energy in a particular way. Confusing this
delicate process with calculating, rational thought may leave the
magician unable to do much else."

An outdated source, perhaps, but there wasn't anything listed in
either the BBB3 or MitS that contradicts this description. A
spellcaster who attempts to "blinder" himself when casting an area
effect spell is screwing with the "intention" of the spell, that
being (IMO) to indiscriminately fill a particular volume with
specific magical energies.

If you'd like a hard numbers rule mechanic for this, I'd suggest a
+12 to the spellcasting target numbers for every 45 degrees of the
spellcaster's normal field of view that he deliberately tries to
obstruct at the time of casting an area effect spell. (Of course,
that number is partially from my dislike of this sort of thing)

Now, if parts of the field of view are blocked because of the
environment, say the spellcaster warns the other runners on the team
with a secret code word and they all duck behind furniture before he
lays down the Area Effect Whup-Ass, then that's ok in my game.

It all goes by the amount of effort the spellcaster is expending the
moment the spell is cast. Tilting the head to the side and standing
on one foot, or cupping hands over eyes and making sure that the
head's pointed in just the right angle to keep friendlies out of the
field of view are all active distractions (especially in the thick of
SR combat).

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From:	Arcady arcady@***.net
Subject:	Area effect and spell targeting, cover your eyes
Date:	Mon, 9 Aug 1999 11:38:03 +700

Message no. 5 >:A mage is casting an area effect spell like powerball in a small
>:contained room...
>:
>:To limit who gets hit he covers one eye and cups the other such that
>: he only sees some of the people.
>:
>:How would you rule it?
>
>"No sir; I don't like it." -- Mr. Horse, Ren & Stimpy
>Now, here's why:
>
>SR2 Grimoire, p.110, How Spells Work:
>"Spellcasting is a matter of intention and mental control. For
>example, brash young sorcerers often attempt to aim an area-effect
>spell through a pinhole to limit the effect to a single target, and
>then wonder why the spell misfires under such circumstances. Might as
>well ask a painter wearing tinted lenses why the color values in a
>painting are false. How can a magician capture the universe-embracing
>exaltation of spirit that is the key to magic when he is playing such
>mind games with himself?

SR3 and MitS don't say anything like this yes. But they do have rules on how
to limit the area of effect of a spell. I may rule that what the mage is doing
is using those rules and cupping his hands over his eyes is merely the 'special
effect' of how he does this.

That's what I'm thinking on doing at the moment anyway.

From:	Lloyd Vance ljvance@*******.edu
Subject:	Area effect and spell targeting, cover your eyes
Date:	Mon, 09 Aug 1999 11:37:35

Message no. 6 At 02:18 PM 8/9/99 -0400, runnerpaul wrote:
>At 09:48 AM 8/9/99 +0700, Arcady wrote:
>:A mage is casting an area effect spell like powerball in a small
>:contained room...
>:
>:To limit who gets hit he covers one eye and cups the other such that
>: he only sees some of the people.
>:
>:How would you rule it?
>
>"No sir; I don't like it." -- Mr. Horse, Ren & Stimpy
>
>Now, here's why:
>
>SR2 Grimoire, p.110, How Spells Work:
>"Spellcasting is a matter of intention and mental control. For
>example, brash young sorcerers often attempt to aim an area-effect
>spell through a pinhole to limit the effect to a single target, and
>then wonder why the spell misfires under such circumstances. Might as
>well ask a painter wearing tinted lenses why the color values in a
>painting are false. How can a magician capture the universe-embracing
>exaltation of spirit that is the key to magic when he is playing such
>mind games with himself?
>...
>One definition of magic is the ability to go mad in a very specific
>way for a limited time. From the psychological viewpoint, a spell is
>an induced neurosis or even a psychosis, created for a split second
>to channel psychic energy in a particular way. Confusing this
>delicate process with calculating, rational thought may leave the
>magician unable to do much else."
>
>An outdated source, perhaps, but there wasn't anything listed in
>either the BBB3 or MitS that contradicts this description. A
>spellcaster who attempts to "blinder" himself when casting an area
>effect spell is screwing with the "intention" of the spell, that
>being (IMO) to indiscriminately fill a particular volume with
>specific magical energies.

I've got to agree with RP on this one. The area affect rule has balances
in it. One of them is that you affect everything (I know, not really
everything, but I'm emphasizing) withing the radius of effect. To make it
easy for one to negate those penalties, would throw off game balance. IMHO.

>
>If you'd like a hard numbers rule mechanic for this, I'd suggest a
>+12 to the spellcasting target numbers for every 45 degrees of the
>spellcaster's normal field of view that he deliberately tries to
>obstruct at the time of casting an area effect spell. (Of course,
>that number is partially from my dislike of this sort of thing)

I'd disagree on this one. I'd be more likely to say you can't do it, and
if the player tries, have some sort of mana surge randomly hit someone
else. Some kind of bad thing, with 2X drain or something.

-The Hamm
"I want my, I want my, I want my Turn To Goo!"
-To the tune of I want my MTV

From:	Twist0059@*.com Twist0059@*.com
Subject:	Area effect and spell targeting, cover your eyes
Date:	Mon, 9 Aug 1999 19:30:55 EDT

Message no. 7 In a message dated 8/9/99 2:01:27 PM Eastern Daylight Time, remo@***.net
writes:

> >A mage is casting an area effect spell like powerball in a small
> >contained room...
> >
> >To limit who gets hit he covers one eye and cups the other such that
> >he only sees some of the people.
> >
> >How would you rule it?
>
> Been there, done that. All he's limiting by fiddling with his line of
> sight like that is where the radius of the AOE spell is situated. You
> can't, however, limit the area of effect in that fashion. The only way to
> limit the AOE is to pull your punch and cast the spell at a lesser Force.
>

You're thinking of elemental manipulation area effect spells. They are the
ones that affect everyone within a radius from the center, regardless if the
caster can see them or not. Combat spells (whether physical or mana) only
affect targets you can see through LOS.

> >Half the party is in front or to the side of him, the other half behind.
> >A hostage and several opponants in front and he's trying to obscure
> > vision to only some of the people. The room is small enough that the
> >entire 6m radius spell would fill it 1 and a half times.
>
> Everyone in the room, to include the mage, is in a boatload of trouble.
>
> >If a physical damaging area effect spell is cast up against a wall and
> >does not blow through the wall will it double back on everyone like
> >explosions do? I know an elemental spell will, but what about something
> >like powerball?
>
> I say no, but I'm notorious for being gentle at the wrong moments.
>
> Patrick
>

Again, the distinctions of Combat Spells vs. Elemental Manips is screwed up
here. Combat Spells like Powerball and Powerbolt are Physical, yes, but that
doesn't mean they manifest a physical component, it means they affect the
physical nature of the target (which is why they can be cast against
something like a car), while Mana spells (Manaball and Manabolt) affect the
target's soul or mind, if you prefer.

The reason the chunky salsa effect occurs is because the explosion creates an
effect in the atmosphere, which a Combat Spell (even physical ones) doesn't
do. They select individual targets and attack them. This would mean the
Powerball doesn't "rebound" off the wall (it never existed or travelled any
distance, it manifests against the targets) to strike a target again like
Chunky Salsa. However, I suppose you could check against the Object
Resistance Table to see if the Powerball spell brings the wall(s) down.

-Twist

From:	Twist0059@*.com Twist0059@*.com
Subject:	Area effect and spell targeting, cover your eyes
Date:	Mon, 9 Aug 1999 19:32:30 EDT

Message no. 8 In a message dated 8/9/99 12:49:45 PM Eastern Daylight Time, arcady@***.net
writes:

> I suspect my players are going to try this. And if they don't this week; I
> can
> be sure to see it eventually.
>
> A mage is casting an area effect spell like powerball in a small contained
> room...
>
>
> To limit who gets hit he covers one eye and cups the other such that he
only
> sees some of the people.
>
> How would you rule it?

I would say the magician can't shield his eyes to only affect certain people,
but he could shout out a warning to his teammates to grab some cover or have
prearranged with them to stay out of his LOS.

-Twist

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