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Mailing List Logs for ShadowRN

Message no. 1
From: Steven McCormick <stardust@***.NET>
Subject: Arts & Crafts
Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1998 22:10:38 -0500
I'm at a dilemma as to how to categorize Arts and Crafts under the SR3
rules. By arts & crafts I mean things like knitting, pottery, sewing,
quilting, etc. Are these active skills or are they knowledge skills? This
is almost the same question as the one brought up in the "Trades" thread a
couple of days ago, but I didn't see where anyone came to a conclusion on
the subject (probably because it mutated into something else while I wasn't
watching :)).

I can see where I could categorize these things under B/R skills (i.e. I
can "build" a sweater from a ball of yarn using knitting needles as my
tools, or repair a sweater using the same tools, although it may not look
as good as the original) which are active skills.

but

I see in the premade characters of SR3 where the Raven Shamen has the
cooking skill as a knowledge skill. Personally I would consider cooking an
art/craft.

Hence, the dilemma. Any opinions?

BlueMule
Who thinks that knitting needles could come in very handy in a barroom
brawl. And they're legal. :)
Message no. 2
From: Sean Thurston <steiner@****.SPYDERNET.COM>
Subject: Re: Arts & Crafts
Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1998 23:50:02 -0700
On Fri, 25 Sep 1998, Steven McCormick wrote:

> I'm at a dilemma as to how to categorize Arts and Crafts under the SR3
> rules. By arts & crafts I mean things like knitting, pottery, sewing,
> quilting, etc. Are these active skills or are they knowledge skills? This
> is almost the same question as the one brought up in the "Trades" thread a
> couple of days ago, but I didn't see where anyone came to a conclusion on
> the subject (probably because it mutated into something else while I wasn't
> watching :)).

If you slot a language skillchip, of some radically foreign
language, such as one which uses clicks and whistles, you can produce
those sounds, which requires muscle control of which you might otherwise
be unaware. You still have to decide what you are going to say in that
language, and if you are poorly-spoken in your native language, you may
be poorly-spoken in this new language. If you slot a "shooting kinda small
guns" chip, you can choose your targets, shoot the gun, and, if I
interpret it correctly, deal with things like reloading, clip-ejection,
jams, cleaning.

Both examples express muscular control like stance and aiming or making
strange noises (now /that/ would be a chip...) and technical knowledge
like where the eject switch is, or why the gun isn't firing or grammar
and vocabulary.

The division between active and knowledge seems to be in the
amount of voluntary muscle control. Personally, I would look into making
a new category of skills which covered both activity and comprehension.

Even Armed Combat (or whatever) can have a theory skill, as well
as its practical skill. That's been made abundantly clear in other posts.

I'd be inclined to put Electronics and Computers (or whatever
they are now) in that third category. A hands-on understanding. I'd but
B/R skills in there, too, because I don't think you can really repair
something without understanding what went where in the first place, and
Career skills, like secretarial, which require you to understand the way
in which the office is organized, and how to operate the office toys.

I'd also be inclined to re-think the effect of skillwires as a result
of these discussions: A "vocab" chip makes sense to be knowledge, but
speaking? I can't trill my "r"'s that well; not knowing how the sounds
are made, I think I would have an accent.

As to the question at hand, Crafts skills. I do cross-stitch.
Not very well, but I do it. It would be clumbsy to translate my skill or
lack thereof into SR3 as a knowledge and an active skill. It would be
simpler, and in my opinion, be a more accurate representation of the way
the information is applied and learned, to have one skill, covering both
sides.

sean.
(yeah, another one.)

Further Reading

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Thwap!