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Message no. 1
From: Denzil Kruse <dkruse@***.AZ05.BULL.COM>
Subject: Astral combat: reach and armor
Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 00:07:00 MST
Is reach counted in astral combat?

I figure dual-natured creatures who have armor also extend the armor in the
astral plane, but what about awakened critters with armor that can go
completey astral? Like say [shiver] a dragon? Does the armor stay with the
meat?

If reach and armor counts, a dragon would RULE the astral plane. A +2 reach
and 8 points of armor...

Denzil Kruse
d.kruse@****.com
Message no. 2
From: Bull <chaos@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: Astral combat: reach and armor
Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 16:21:05 -0500
At 12:07 AM 1/19/97 MST, you wrote:
>Is reach counted in astral combat?
>
>I figure dual-natured creatures who have armor also extend the armor in the
>astral plane, but what about awakened critters with armor that can go
>completey astral? Like say [shiver] a dragon? Does the armor stay with the
>meat?
>
>If reach and armor counts, a dragon would RULE the astral plane. A +2 reach
>and 8 points of armor...
>
I don't really know, but I personally have ruled in my game that it does...

After all, short of the IE (shudder, gasp, puke) and Horrors, dragons
SHOULD be the most powerful things around, in or out of Astral Space...

Bull
--
Bull-the-cuddley-Kojack-imitating-Star-Wars-lovin'-ork-decker

=======================================================
= Bull, aka Chaos, aka Rak, aka Steven Ratkovich =
= chaos@*****,com =
= "Order is Illusion! Chaos is Bliss! Got any fours?" =
=======================================================

Less than 2 weeks till Star Wars!
Message no. 3
From: L Canthros <lobo1@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Astral combat: reach and armor
Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 18:47:22 EST
On Sun, 19 Jan 1997 00:07:00 MST Denzil Kruse <dkruse@***.AZ05.BULL.COM>
writes:
>Is reach counted in astral combat?
>
>I figure dual-natured creatures who have armor also extend the armor
>in the
>astral plane, but what about awakened critters with armor that can go
>completey astral? Like say [shiver] a dragon? Does the armor stay
>with the
>meat?
>
>If reach and armor counts, a dragon would RULE the astral plane. A +2
>reach
>and 8 points of armor...
>
Uh, yep. That's about how it works:) They use their Physical Attributes
on the Astral, they use any natural armor they have...information on this
is in the SRII book (Magic chapter, but I don't know where) and the
Grimmythingy 2nd ed. (pg 86 and 87). I dunno about Reach, info might be
in SR2, but I don't think it's mentioned in the Grimmy.

Canthros
--
If any man wishes peace, canthros1@***.com
let him prepare for war. lobo1@****.com
--Roman proverb
http://members.aol.com/canthros1/
Message no. 4
From: Glenn Royer <cyberspunk@********.NET>
Subject: Re: Astral combat: reach and armor
Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 22:08:40 -0500
SH>>Is reach counted in astral combat?
SH>>
SH>>I figure dual-natured creatures who have armor also extend the armor
SH>>in the
SH>>astral plane, but what about awakened critters with armor that can go
SH>>completey astral? Like say [shiver] a dragon? Does the armor stay
SH>>with the
SH>>meat?
SH>>
SH>>If reach and armor counts, a dragon would RULE the astral plane. A +2
SH>>reach
SH>>and 8 points of armor...
SH>>
SH>Uh, yep. That's about how it works:) They use their Physical Attributes
SH>on the Astral, they use any natural armor they have...information on this
SH>is in the SRII book (Magic chapter, but I don't know where) and the
SH>Grimmythingy 2nd ed. (pg 86 and 87). I dunno about Reach, info might be
SH>in SR2, but I don't think it's mentioned in the Grimmy.

well, i dont care to look it up right now, but i would say that
as an astral body, dragons would not have reach. I also believe that
probably the only dragons that would be capable of complete astral
travel are great dragons.
A dragon's reach comes from its larger size, its long tail and
big big nasty claws of neverending pain. Reach should not be an issue
in astral combat of any kind. Astral combat is a battle of the mind.
"Size matters not." -Yoda (and your wife)

I've always thought that astral combat betwixt an astral form and a
dual-natured being could get kinda tricky. however, reach shouldn't be
an issue here either. After all, damage from astral combat doesn't rely
on hits in critial places, superior mass, or any of that.
There you go
-Cyberspunk
SPACE COAST Online 407-773-1042 Telnet Spacecst.net WWW - http://Spacecst.net
Message no. 5
From: Czar Eggbert <czregbrt@*********.EDU>
Subject: Re: Astral combat: reach and armor
Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 21:29:46 -0600
On Mon, 20 Jan 1997, L Canthros wrote:


> >If reach and armor counts, a dragon would RULE the astral plane. A +2
> >reach
> >and 8 points of armor..
Hay just thought i remindyou dragons are Duel natures and thus cant go
astral and leave there body... at least as far as I know ;)
Czar Eggbert
Ruler Dark Side Castle
Dark Side of the Moon

http://www.creighton.edu/~czregrbt
Message no. 6
From: Dust <rogan@*******.BERGEN.ORG>
Subject: Re: Astral combat: reach and armor
Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 09:13:12 -0500
> Hay just thought i remindyou dragons are Duel natures and thus cant go
> astral and leave there body... at least as far as I know ;)

The Grimoire says that initiate dragons can go to the metaplanes.
Dust
Message no. 7
From: Mike Elkins <MikeE@*********.COM>
Subject: Re: Astral combat: reach and armor -Reply
Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 09:27:09 -0500
>Hay just thought i remindyou dragons are Duel natures and thus cant go astral
>and leave there body... at least as far as I know ;)

That's only MUNDANE dragons. Many dragons are full magicians, and ALL great
dragons are. Not only can they do anything a magician could, I'd say they could
do a lot more. In fact, never depend on a dragon NOT being able to do
something: you may end up lunch.

Double-Domed Mike
Message no. 8
From: Brett Borger <bxb121@***.EDU>
Subject: Re: Astral combat: reach and armor
Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 20:23:29 -0500
At 09:13 1/21/97 -0500, you wrote:
>> Hay just thought i remindyou dragons are Duel natures and thus cant go
>> astral and leave there body... at least as far as I know ;)
>
>The Grimoire says that initiate dragons can go to the metaplanes.

An astrally perceiving mage is Dual Natured too, but he can project just
fine. THe basic idea is any MAgically active (as opposed to innate or
passive) entity may have astral projection..(Not HAS, but MIGHT)

On that note, what is everyone doing with the AStral Sight Edge from the
companion and Physical Adepts? Suddenly the costly 2 Magic Point power can
be bought for losing a few skill points in return.....

Not to mention Pain tolerance.....

BTW, nice to finally get here....I've been trying to join this list for the
last three years (sporadically, each time I failed I assumed it no longer
existed) Finally caught you. :)
/ Brett "SwiftOne" Borger
\\\' , / // bxb121@***.edu
\\\// _/ //' http://www.opp.psu.edu/~bxb24/swiftone.htm
\_-//' / //<' Webmaster, Office of Physical Plant,
\ /// <//' The Pennsylvania State University
/ >> \\\` http://www.opp.psu.edu
/,)-^>> _\`
(/ \\ / \\\
// //\\\
((`
Message no. 9
From: Brett Borger <bxb121@***.EDU>
Subject: Re: Astral combat: reach and armor -Reply
Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 20:23:31 -0500
>>Hay just thought i remindyou dragons are Duel natures and thus cant go astral
>>and leave there body... at least as far as I know ;)
>That's only MUNDANE dragons. Many dragons are full magicians, and ALL great
>dragons are. Not only can they do anything a magician could, I'd say they
could
>do a lot more. In fact, never depend on a dragon NOT being able to do
>something: you may end up lunch.

"Meddle not in the affairs of Dragons, for you are crunchy and good with
ketchup"

/ Brett "SwiftOne" Borger
\\\' , / // bxb121@***.edu
\\\// _/ //' http://www.opp.psu.edu/~bxb24/swiftone.htm
\_-//' / //<' Webmaster, Office of Physical Plant,
\ /// <//' The Pennsylvania State University
/ >> \\\` http://www.opp.psu.edu
/,)-^>> _\`
(/ \\ / \\\
// //\\\
((`
Message no. 10
From: Denzil Kruse <dkruse@***.AZ05.BULL.COM>
Subject: Re: Astral combat: reach and armor -Reply
Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 15:45:00 MST
>"Meddle not in the affairs of Dragons, for you are crunchy and good with
>ketchup"

But don't forget, some you have to peel first (Dermal Armor). And I hate
picking headware memory modules and cybereyes out of my teeth.

Denzil Kruse
d.kruse@****.com
Message no. 11
From: Ted Cabeen <cabeen@******.COM>
Subject: Re: Astral combat: reach and armor
Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 18:02:19 -0600
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

At 08:23 PM 1/21/97 -0500, you wrote:
>On that note, what is everyone doing with the AStral Sight Edge from the
>companion and Physical Adepts? Suddenly the costly 2 Magic Point power can
>be bought for losing a few skill points in return.....
I don't think it's too big of a problem. According to the Companion,
"characters...cannot make use of any Magical Skills without the appropriate
Magic Priority allocation." I read that as that A physad with Astral Sight
can see into the Astral plane, but thats all. He is not allowed any actions
there at all. It's as if they were wearing goggles that let them see into the
astral. They can only use sorcery skill and attack on the astral plane if
they spend the 2 Magic Points to actually do anything on the astral besides
look around. This is the best balance I can come up with.
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--
______________________________________________________________________________
Ted Cabeen http://shadowland.rh.uchicago.edu cabeen@******.com
Check Website or finger for PGP Public Key secabeen@******.uchicago.edu
"I have taken all knowledge to be my province." -F. Bacon cococabeen@***.com
"Human kind cannot bear very much reality."-T.S.Eliot 73126.626@**********.com
Message no. 12
From: Max Rible <cheshire@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: Astral combat: reach and armor
Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 16:05:58 -0800
At 18:02 1/21/97 -0600, Ted Cabeen wrote:
>At 08:23 PM 1/21/97 -0500, you wrote:
>>On that note, what is everyone doing with the AStral Sight Edge from the
>>companion and Physical Adepts? Suddenly the costly 2 Magic Point power can
>>be bought for losing a few skill points in return.....

>I don't think it's too big of a problem. According to the Companion,
>"characters...cannot make use of any Magical Skills without the appropriate
>Magic Priority allocation." I read that as that A physad with Astral Sight
>can see into the Astral plane, but thats all. He is not allowed any actions
>there at all. It's as if they were wearing goggles that let them see into the
>astral. They can only use sorcery skill and attack on the astral plane if
>they spend the 2 Magic Points to actually do anything on the astral besides
>look around. This is the best balance I can come up with.

However, if they have Killing Hands and Astral Sight, they can still attack
things on the Astral Plane with their Unarmed Combat skill...

--
%%% Max Rible %%% cheshire@*****.com %%% http://www.amurgsval.org/~cheshire %%%
%%% "Don't keep all your bats in one belfry." - me %%%
Message no. 13
From: Brett Borger <bxb121@***.EDU>
Subject: Re: Astral combat: reach and armor
Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 22:10:57 -0500
>At 08:23 PM 1/21/97 -0500, you wrote:
>>On that note, what is everyone doing with the AStral Sight Edge from the
>>companion and Physical Adepts? Suddenly the costly 2 Magic Point power can
>>be bought for losing a few skill points in return.....
>I don't think it's too big of a problem. According to the Companion,
>"characters...cannot make use of any Magical Skills without the appropriate
>Magic Priority allocation." I read that as that A physad with Astral Sight
>can see into the Astral plane, but thats all. He is not allowed any actions
>there at all. It's as if they were wearing goggles that let them see into the
>astral. They can only use sorcery skill and attack on the astral plane if
>they spend the 2 Magic Points to actually do anything on the astral besides
>look around. This is the best balance I can come up with.

Hmm...The way I read it, it says FULL ASTRAL PERCEPTION, which makes it the
equivilant of the Phys AD Power, which means the cost has been drastically
reduced....Not that I mind, I always thought the power was too expensive
anyway, But that's all.

The 2 Magic points never let them use Sorcery for anything except Astral
Combat, and according to p96 Awakenings, a mundane could do that. (Though
I'd hate to see the mundane who went through the difficult process of
learning Sorcery)

'Sides, 90% of the Physads use Killing hands in Astral Space.
Message no. 14
From: Bull <chaos@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: Astral combat: reach and armor
Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 20:05:04 -0500
At 08:23 PM 1/21/97 -0500, you wrote:
>>BTW, nice to finally get here....I've been trying to join this list for the
>last three years (sporadically, each time I failed I assumed it no longer
>existed) Finally caught you. :)
>
Welcome aboard, Brett... Nice to have a new list member...:)

Bull-the-unofficial-welcome-ork
--
Bull-the-cuddley-Kojack-imitating-Star-Wars-lovin'-ork-decker

=======================================================
= Bull, aka Chaos, aka Rak, aka Steven Ratkovich =
= chaos@*****,com =
= "Order is Illusion! Chaos is Bliss! Got any fours?" =
=======================================================

Less than 2 weeks till Star Wars!
Message no. 15
From: Ted Cabeen <cabeen@******.COM>
Subject: Re: Astral combat: reach and armor
Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 18:41:13 -0600
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

At 04:05 PM 1/21/97 -0800, you wrote:
>At 18:02 1/21/97 -0600, Ted Cabeen wrote:
>>At 08:23 PM 1/21/97 -0500, you wrote:
>>>On that note, what is everyone doing with the AStral Sight Edge from the
>>>companion and Physical Adepts? Suddenly the costly 2 Magic Point power can

>>>be bought for losing a few skill points in return.....
>
>>I don't think it's too big of a problem. According to the Companion,
>>"characters...cannot make use of any Magical Skills without the appropriate
>>Magic Priority allocation." I read that as that A physad with Astral Sight
>>can see into the Astral plane, but thats all. He is not allowed any actions

>>there at all. It's as if they were wearing goggles that let them see into
the
>>astral. They can only use sorcery skill and attack on the astral plane if
>>they spend the 2 Magic Points to actually do anything on the astral besides
>>look around. This is the best balance I can come up with.
>
>However, if they have Killing Hands and Astral Sight, they can still attack
>things on the Astral Plane with their Unarmed Combat skill...

I wouldn't allow that. The edge is called Astral Sight, with means that they
can see the astral plane. However, thier hands would still be in the physical
plane, because they dont have the power to shift thier entire body into the
Astral. With real Astral Perception you do shift into the Astral Plane, but
are confined to not leaving your body. Sine their hands never enter the
Astral, they can't hit Astral Beings, unless the astral being has a physical
presence as well.

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--
______________________________________________________________________________
Ted Cabeen http://shadowland.rh.uchicago.edu cabeen@******.com
Check Website or finger for PGP Public Key secabeen@******.uchicago.edu
"I have taken all knowledge to be my province." -F. Bacon cococabeen@***.com
"Human kind cannot bear very much reality."-T.S.Eliot 73126.626@**********.com
Message no. 16
From: Max Rible <cheshire@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: Astral combat: reach and armor
Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 16:51:10 -0800
At 18:41 1/21/97 -0600, Ted Cabeen wrote:
>At 04:05 PM 1/21/97 -0800, Max Rible wrote:
>>At 18:02 1/21/97 -0600, Ted Cabeen wrote:
>>>At 08:23 PM 1/21/97 -0500, you wrote:
>>>>On that note, what is everyone doing with the AStral Sight Edge from the
>>>>companion and Physical Adepts? Suddenly the costly 2 Magic Point power
can
>>>>be bought for losing a few skill points in return.....

>>>I don't think it's too big of a problem. According to the Companion,
>>>"characters...cannot make use of any Magical Skills without the
appropriate
>>>Magic Priority allocation." I read that as that A physad with Astral
Sight
>>>can see into the Astral plane, but thats all. He is not allowed any actions
>>>there at all.

>>However, if they have Killing Hands and Astral Sight, they can still attack
>>things on the Astral Plane with their Unarmed Combat skill...

>I wouldn't allow that. The edge is called Astral Sight, with means that they
>can see the astral plane. However, thier hands would still be in the physical
>plane, because they dont have the power to shift thier entire body into the
>Astral. With real Astral Perception you do shift into the Astral Plane, but
>are confined to not leaving your body. Sine their hands never enter the
>Astral, they can't hit Astral Beings, unless the astral being has a physical
>presence as well.

So they can see into the Astral without being vulnerable to grounding out
spells or getting beaten up by astral entities? That makes the Edge very
powerful indeed...

--
%%% Max Rible %%% cheshire@*****.com %%% http://www.amurgsval.org/~cheshire %%%
%%% "Don't keep all your bats in one belfry." - me %%%
Message no. 17
From: Ted Cabeen <cabeen@******.COM>
Subject: Re: Astral combat: reach and armor
Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 19:19:48 -0600
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

At 04:51 PM 1/21/97 -0800, you wrote:
>At 18:41 1/21/97 -0600, Ted Cabeen wrote:
<Snip previous discuccion about Astral Sight and Psyads>
>>I wouldn't allow that. The edge is called Astral Sight, with means that
they
>>can see the astral plane. However, thier hands would still be in the
physical
>>plane, because they dont have the power to shift thier entire body into the
>>Astral. With real Astral Perception you do shift into the Astral Plane, but

>>are confined to not leaving your body. Sine their hands never enter the
>>Astral, they can't hit Astral Beings, unless the astral being has a physical

>>presence as well.
>
>So they can see into the Astral without being vulnerable to grounding out
>spells or getting beaten up by astral entities? That makes the Edge very
>powerful indeed...
I'd probably rule that they could be grounded out through because there is a
connection between the astral and the physical, but they couldn't be attacked
by astral beings. Anyways, if they could be attacked, then they'd be able to
do damage back, which kinda messes it up. Perhaps they could be attacked, but
they could only dodge and roll body to resist the damage. That dosen't make
it too powerful, cause they can't do anything magical, including Aura Reading.
That's pretty limited, in my book. The most useful thing I can find for it
is seeing invisible people.
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--
______________________________________________________________________________
Ted Cabeen http://shadowland.rh.uchicago.edu cabeen@******.com
Check Website or finger for PGP Public Key secabeen@******.uchicago.edu
"I have taken all knowledge to be my province." -F. Bacon cococabeen@***.com
"Human kind cannot bear very much reality."-T.S.Eliot 73126.626@**********.com
Message no. 18
From: Brett Borger <bxb121@***.EDU>
Subject: Re: Astral combat: reach and armor
Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 23:59:39 -0500
>I wouldn't allow that. The edge is called Astral Sight, with means that they
>can see the astral plane. However, thier hands would still be in the physical
>plane, because they dont have the power to shift thier entire body into the
>Astral. With real Astral Perception you do shift into the Astral Plane, but
>are confined to not leaving your body. Sine their hands never enter the
>Astral, they can't hit Astral Beings, unless the astral being has a physical
>presence as well.

Quote from Companion, p33 (God, I sound like a Rules Lawyer, don't I? I
apologize, but I'd love to hear what others say on this)

Astral Sight 3 pts The character can see into the astral plane through
astral perception.....(Snip to not "block quote" any FASA book :)
)....Astrally active chracters have all the normal abilities of astral
perception...

In other words, they have astral perception. The full, unedited, and
unadulterated version.

It may be called "astral Sight", but then, Ram doesn't "ram".

So we return to the original question. Full Astral Perception for 3 build
points?
Message no. 19
From: Ted Cabeen <cabeen@******.COM>
Subject: Re: Astral combat: reach and armor
Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 20:30:55 -0600
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

At 11:59 PM 1/21/97 -0500, you wrote:
>>I wouldn't allow that. The edge is called Astral Sight, with means that
they
>>can see the astral plane. However, thier hands would still be in the
physical
>>plane, because they dont have the power to shift thier entire body into the
>>Astral. With real Astral Perception you do shift into the Astral Plane, but

>>are confined to not leaving your body. Sine their hands never enter the
>>Astral, they can't hit Astral Beings, unless the astral being has a physical

>>presence as well.
>
>Quote from Companion, p33 (God, I sound like a Rules Lawyer, don't I? I
>apologize, but I'd love to hear what others say on this)
It's okay. If anyone else has a position on this, I'd love to hear is as
well.
>Astral Sight 3 pts The character can see into the astral plane through
>astral perception.....(Snip to not "block quote" any FASA book :)
>)....Astrally active chracters have all the normal abilities of astral
>perception...
>In other words, they have astral perception. The full, unedited, and
>unadulterated version.
Yes, but I'd declare that Psyads aren't astrally active unless they buy the
power with magic points. They're magically active, definetly, but not
astrally.

Does anyone else have any imput?
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--
______________________________________________________________________________
Ted Cabeen http://shadowland.rh.uchicago.edu cabeen@******.com
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"I have taken all knowledge to be my province." -F. Bacon cococabeen@***.com
"Human kind cannot bear very much reality."-T.S.Eliot 73126.626@**********.com
Message no. 20
From: L Canthros <lobo1@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Astral combat: reach and armor
Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 22:57:25 EST
On Tue, 21 Jan 1997 20:30:55 -0600 Ted Cabeen <cabeen@******.COM> writes:
<snip>
>Yes, but I'd declare that Psyads aren't astrally active unless they
>buy the
>power with magic points. They're magically active, definetly, but not
>astrally.
>
>Does anyone else have any imput?

Yeah (you knew someone would:). Why wouldn't they be Astrally Active?
Shoot, they're considered Astrally Active when using the Magic Sense
power, why not the Astral Sight Edge (which I think is the same as Astral
Perception, but...)? Why one and not the other? I guess I just don't see
your logic <shrug>

Canthros
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Message no. 21
From: L Canthros <lobo1@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Astral combat: reach and armor
Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 22:57:24 EST
On Tue, 21 Jan 1997 19:19:48 -0600 Ted Cabeen <cabeen@******.COM> writes:
<snip>
>>So they can see into the Astral without being vulnerable to grounding
>out
>>spells or getting beaten up by astral entities? That makes the Edge
>very
>>powerful indeed...
>I'd probably rule that they could be grounded out through because
>there is a
>connection between the astral and the physical, but they couldn't be
>attacked
>by astral beings. Anyways, if they could be attacked, then they'd be
>able to
>do damage back, which kinda messes it up. Perhaps they could be
>attacked, but
>they could only dodge and roll body to resist the damage. That
>dosen't make
>it too powerful, cause they can't do anything magical, including Aura
>Reading.
> That's pretty limited, in my book. The most useful thing I can find
>for it
>is seeing invisible people.
Except that the Companion states that they can us Aura Reading. I would
have to say that the power works exactly like Astral Perception. If
you're that worried about (some of us are, some of us aren't) then up the
cost in Building Points. Nothing says you can't. If it still bothers you,
don't allow them to use the edge.

Canthros
--
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let him prepare for war. lobo1@****.com
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Message no. 22
From: L Canthros <lobo1@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Astral combat: reach and armor
Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 22:57:25 EST
On Tue, 21 Jan 1997 23:59:39 -0500 Brett Borger <bxb121@***.EDU> writes:
>>I wouldn't allow that. The edge is called Astral Sight, with means
>that they
>>can see the astral plane. However, thier hands would still be in the
>physical
>>plane, because they dont have the power to shift thier entire body
>into the
>>Astral. With real Astral Perception you do shift into the Astral
>Plane, but
>>are confined to not leaving your body. Sine their hands never enter
>the
>>Astral, they can't hit Astral Beings, unless the astral being has a
>physical
>>presence as well.
>
>Quote from Companion, p33 (God, I sound like a Rules Lawyer, don't I?
>I
>apologize, but I'd love to hear what others say on this)
>
>Astral Sight 3 pts The character can see into the astral plane through
>astral perception.....(Snip to not "block quote" any FASA book :)
>)....Astrally active chracters have all the normal abilities of astral
>perception...
>
>In other words, they have astral perception. The full, unedited, and
>unadulterated version.
>
>It may be called "astral Sight", but then, Ram doesn't "ram".
>
>So we return to the original question. Full Astral Perception for 3
>build
>points?
>
Almost. It's 2 points, but otherwise, that's about right. The magickal
edges should be closely regulated, otherwise they can (and quite likely
will be) seriously abused (Physad + Astral Sight + High Pain Tolerance
Lvl 10 + various conjuring edges:) it'd cost BPs out the yin-yang, but
imagine the power such a character could have. Or, you could just make a
physical mage:) )

Canthros
--
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let him prepare for war. lobo1@****.com
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Message no. 23
From: Glenn Royer <cyberspunk@********.NET>
Subject: Re: Astral combat: reach and armor
Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 23:58:18 -0500
SH>I'd probably rule that they could be grounded out through because there is a
SH>connection between the astral and the physical, but they couldn't be attacke
SH>by astral beings. Anyways, if they could be attacked, then they'd be able t
SH>do damage back, which kinda messes it up. Perhaps they could be attacked, b
SH>they could only dodge and roll body to resist the damage. That dosen't make
SH it too powerful, cause they can't do anything magical, including Aura Readin
SH> That's pretty limited, in my book. The most useful thing I can find for it
SH>is seeing invisible people.
SH>-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
SH>Version: 4.5

if a spell could be grounded out through them, then they would
be able to be attacked astrally, because spells are used only as weapons
in astral combat, and the way i see it, there are no ranged attacks in
astral space. when, say, you ground that powerball out through mr.
razorboy wannabee mage with his +3 reflexes spell lock on, you're
engaging in astral combat with that focus. Because it has been
magically enchanted, the spell lock has its own spirit, like it was a
dual creature. anyway, i see grounding spells through something and
being able to attack something astrally as going hand in hand.
-Cyberspunk
SPACE COAST Online 407-773-1042 Telnet Spacecst.net WWW - http://Spacecst.net
Message no. 24
From: Charles Baker <karolusb@**.NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Re: Astral combat: reach and armor
Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 02:21:32 -0800
Ted Cabeen wrote:
> >However, if they have Killing Hands and Astral Sight, they can still attack
> >things on the Astral Plane with their Unarmed Combat skill...
>
> I wouldn't allow that. The edge is called Astral Sight, with means that they
> can see the astral plane. However, thier hands would still be in the physical
> plane, because they dont have the power to shift thier entire body into the
> Astral. With real Astral Perception you do shift into the Astral Plane, but
> are confined to not leaving your body. Sine their hands never enter the
> Astral, they can't hit Astral Beings, unless the astral being has a physical
> presence as well.

So does it not constitute an astral conduit (or would incoming attacks
have to be called shot: eyes)? Frankly if astral sight shifted the
whole body I would think they wouldn't need killing hands to attack
something, I assume its a power of killing hands not of astral
perception.
Message no. 25
From: Charles Baker <karolusb@**.NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Re: Astral combat: reach and armor
Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 02:31:55 -0800
Brett Borger wrote:
> So we return to the original question. Full Astral Perception for 3 build
> points?

It may seem cheap for physads but not all astrally incapable mages are
physads, 15 points full sorcery abilities, 3 points astral perception, 5
points for conjuring a single earth elemental- or full mage with all the
above and alot more for a mere 20 points. The sorcery adept really is
screwed by the hermetic/shamanic adept, yeah he does have much greater
spellcasting, but without even astral perception he can't use most areas
of metamagic. It also tends to encourage the physad who is not a sammie
wannabe, which is always kinda sad to watch.

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