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Message no. 1
From: Raije murk@****.org.au
Subject: Astral Grounding
Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 14:46:19 +1000
Greenthings and Tablesalts (Greetings and Salutations),

Okay, this is a hard one to start off, so I'll put it to you straight(-er
than normal).

Mage casts manabolt/mana-based spell/etc. Spell slams into metahuman body.
Body takes damage/whatever.

Compare this to electricity, where the same would happen, but the person can
be 'grounded' so as to reduce/negate the effects of the 'lectricity.

Is it possible to 'Astrally Ground' the person. For example (and just
example), a dual-natured bioware implant (or something like that) that is
implanted into the person, and when the person is hit by a mana 'surge' (ie;
above normal levels), the excess mana is channeled through the body, and
into the bioware organ, where it is transfered to the astral plane where it
cna' do any damage to the target. Of course, this would mean that the
person then has a glowy thing in his gut but hey, everything about Bioware
is a tradeoff right?

Yeah, I realise that Spell defense would be easier but you have to be ready
for it then. And Relfecting and Shielding can't be used by mundanes.

Let meknow what you think because I want to scare the drek out of my players
when they hit someone with a volley of deadly manabolts...and he keeps
coming...

/Raije grins wickedly

_____________________sabrepunk@**********.net_
Raije
sabrepunk@**********.net
UIN-2799894
~Simple Guide to Cyberpunk~
http://gateway.to/cyberpunk/
"Shit Happens, So Carry Toilet Paper"
Message no. 2
From: lomion lomion@*********.escnd1.sdca.home.com
Subject: Astral Grounding
Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 22:32:08 -0700
>
>Is it possible to 'Astrally Ground' the person. For example (and just
>example), a dual-natured bioware implant (or something like that) that is
>implanted into the person, and when the person is hit by a mana 'surge' (ie;
>above normal levels), the excess mana is channeled through the body, and
>into the bioware organ, where it is transfered to the astral plane where it
>cna' do any damage to the target. Of course, this would mean that the
>person then has a glowy thing in his gut but hey, everything about Bioware
>is a tradeoff right?

This almost reminds me of a reverse form of grounding a focus. What
would the excess energy in the astral do exactly? I'd think it could hurt
the person still, maybe it would convert it to light or something? Maybe
as the person gets hit they start to glow big time? I'd think it would be
more of a special kind of foci that was implanted into the wearer in some
special ceremony (think like that commercial for that PC game shadowman,
the mask in his chest). Also i doubt an implant would be able to tell good
from bad so it would ground all magic or attempt to, what happens if it
overloads (kerblewey?) You could have it htat it gives x number of dice to
resits all magic, treat it like a pool for magical defense, and have it try
and stop any magic, but only magic targeted at the wearer, i don't think it
would stop area of effect spells.

>Yeah, I realise that Spell defense would be easier but you have to be ready
>for it then. And Relfecting and Shielding can't be used by mundanes.
>
>Let meknow what you think because I want to scare the drek out of my players
>when they hit someone with a volley of deadly manabolts...and he keeps
>coming...

that sounds like a pretty cool idea though heh.


--lomion
Message no. 3
From: Raije murk@****.org.au
Subject: Astral Grounding
Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 15:49:49 +1000
<snip wot I sed>

> This almost reminds me of a reverse form of grounding a focus. What
> would the excess energy in the astral do exactly? I'd think it could hurt
> the person still, maybe it would convert it to light or something? Maybe
> as the person gets hit they start to glow big time? I'd think it would be

I'm not sure _exactly_ what it would do, I'm still thinking on it. Maybe
just SFX or somethng...like it lights the place up, or makes a daunting
light show.

> more of a special kind of foci that was implanted into the wearer in some
> special ceremony (think like that commercial for that PC game shadowman,
> the mask in his chest). Also i doubt an implant would be able to tell
good
> from bad so it would ground all magic or attempt to, what happens if it
> overloads (kerblewey?) You could have it htat it gives x number of dice
to
> resits all magic, treat it like a pool for magical defense, and have it
try
> and stop any magic, but only magic targeted at the wearer, i don't think
it
> would stop area of effect spells.

good point, so it would try to deflect all mana-based spells that are
directed at the owner of the implant/focus. Hmmm....the plot thickens...

>
<snip wot I sed again>
>
> that sounds like a pretty cool idea though heh.
>

Yes, I've based a run on it, I just have to figure out the details of the
implant though. The runners go on a 'fact-finding' mission...of course, the
secuiryt on the island they have to go to will be such that they *will* die
if they get caught or touch of a firefight...

_____________________sabrepunk@**********.net_
Raije
sabrepunk@**********.net
UIN-2799894
~Simple Guide to Cyberpunk~
http://gateway.to/cyberpunk/
"Shit Happens, So Carry Toilet Paper"
Message no. 4
From: BRUCE gyro@********.co.za
Subject: Astral Grounding
Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 09:32:00 +0200
-----Original Message-----
From: Raije <murk@****.org.au>
To: shadowrn@*********.org <shadowrn@*********.org>
Date: 19 October 1999 07:16
Subject: Astral Grounding


>Mage casts manabolt/mana-based spell/etc. Spell slams into metahuman
body.
>Body takes damage/whatever.

The damage occurs because the taget cannot "process" all that mana
energy and it rips through his or her aura, changing it away from the
"template" it has.

>Compare this to electricity, where the same would happen, but the
person can
>be 'grounded' so as to reduce/negate the effects of the 'lectricity.

Using the word "grounding" around here can be dangerous :)

>Is it possible to 'Astrally Ground' the person. For example (and
just
>example), a dual-natured bioware implant (or something like that)
that is
>implanted into the person, and when the person is hit by a mana
'surge' (ie;
>above normal levels), the excess mana is channeled through the body,
and
>into the bioware organ, where it is transfered to the astral plane
where it
>cna' do any damage to the target. Of course, this would mean that
the
>person then has a glowy thing in his gut but hey, everything about
Bioware
>is a tradeoff right?

OK. I've never heard of anything as weird as a "dual-natured bioware
implant " but I take your point. It might be possible to do this with
a dedicated focus, but you'll probably be better off, in terms of game
balance to just use spell defence.

>Yeah, I realise that Spell defense would be easier but you have to be
ready
>for it then. And Relfecting and Shielding can't be used by mundanes.

Well. thats why initiates can use shielding as a meta-talent and
protect the whole group. It would not be good from a game blalace
angle to have the cyber guys be so resistant to magic. Would your
theory cover healing spells as well, after all, they do push mana in
large amounts throught the body. Perhaps this could be similiar to the
Magic Resistant edge.

>Let meknow what you think because I want to scare the drek out of my
players
>when they hit someone with a volley of deadly manabolts...and he
keeps
>coming...

This can be done if the targets friendly mage buddy is shielding
him.....

Bruce <gyro@********.co.za>
RULE NO 1:
DONT GET CAUGHT
Message no. 5
From: Rand Ratinac docwagon101@*****.com
Subject: Astral Grounding
Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 01:17:02 -0700 (PDT)
<Snippola(TM)>
> OK. I've never heard of anything as weird as a
"dual-natured bioware implant " but I take your point.
It might be possible to do this with a dedicated
focus, but you'll probably be better off, in terms of
game balance to just use spell defence.
>
> >Yeah, I realise that Spell defense would be easier
but you have to be ready for it then. And Relfecting
and Shielding can't be used by mundanes.
>
> Well. thats why initiates can use shielding as a
meta-talent and protect the whole group. It would not
be good from a game blalace angle to have the cyber
guys be so resistant to magic. Would your theory cover
healing spells as well, after all, they do push mana
in large amounts throught the body. Perhaps this could
be similiar to the Magic Resistant edge.
>
> >Let meknow what you think because I want to scare
the drek out of my players when they hit someone with
a volley of deadly manabolts...and he keeps coming...
>
> This can be done if the targets friendly mage buddy
is shielding him.....
> Bruce <gyro@********.co.za>

Okay, I'm as leery as Bruce at putting something like
that into general gameplay - but as a GM, I see what
Raije's trying to do and I like the concept. Here's my
advice.

DON'T make it a generally available item. Ever. Don't
make it a rarely available item. Don't even make it
available at delta clinics. Make it a one-off item
that the players can never get their hands on. How?
Make it an experimental item that was created by a
brilliant, but eccentric, mage or biotechnician
(depending on whether it's a magical focus or a
biotech item). The villain had it given to him or
implanted, then he killed the developer and destroyed
his research to stop anyone else getting his edge.
Next step - either make the runners destroy it when
they kill him (bullets can wreck a focus or a bioware
organ pretty well, y'know), or make them HAVE to
destroy it in order to kill him (otherwise he's nigh
indestructible). Third options with bioware - have it
AUTOMATICALLY be destroyed if he's killed. A
dual-natured biotech device would likely be rather
unstable and would just "meltdown" without a living
body sustaining it.

One other option just occurred to me (thanks, Games
Workshop!). This one would work best with a bio
device. Have you ever read the blurb on the Eversor
Assassins in WH40K? Basically, these guys are the
ultimate combat monsters, but to get that way, they're
pumped full of combat trugs and toxic substances. When
they die, without the control of their enhanced
bodies, these substances go critical and their corpses
explode. Kinda like a natural cranial bomb. You could
do the same thing here. And this could be especially
nasty if he doesn't have any cyber. If any of the
mages assensed him, they'd SEE he doesn't have cyber
and not be expecting his body to blow up once he's
dead...

Of course, that's if you want the villain to be a
one-man army. If you don't mind him sharing the glory,
have a high-grade initiate pal of his use shielding on
him.

*Doc' just had an evil thought..."If you pump lepers
full of liquid explosives, could they break off pieces
of their bodies and use them like grenades?"*

====Doc'
(aka Mr. Freaky Big, Super-Dynamic Troll of Tomorrow)

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Message no. 6
From: dbuehrer@****.org dbuehrer@****.org
Subject: Astral Grounding
Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 07:12:04 -0600
Rand Ratinac wrote:

[snip: bioware or something that grounds mana spells]

\ > >Let meknow what you think because I want to scare
\ the drek out of my players when they hit someone with
\ a volley of deadly manabolts...and he keeps coming...
\ >
\ > This can be done if the targets friendly mage buddy
\ is shielding him.....
\ > Bruce <gyro@********.co.za>
\
\ Okay, I'm as leery as Bruce at putting something like
\ that into general gameplay - but as a GM, I see what
\ Raije's trying to do and I like the concept. Here's my
\ advice.
\
\ DON'T make it a generally available item. Ever. Don't
\ make it a rarely available item. Don't even make it
\ available at delta clinics. Make it a one-off item
\ that the players can never get their hands on. How?

Don't make it an item.

Say the NPC was born with this ability.

And make sure the special effects on the astral plane are real pretty :)

-Graht
--
"The battles that count aren't the ones for gold medals.
The struggles within yourself; the invisible, inevitable
battles inside all of us; that's where it's at."
-Jesse Owens
Message no. 7
From: Grim Shear grim_shear@*******.com
Subject: Astral Grounding
Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 09:05:19 CDT
>One other option just occurred to me (thanks, Games Workshop!). This >one
>would work best with a bio device. Have you ever read the blurb >on the
>Eversor Assassins in WH40K? <snip>

Personally, thats my favorite assassin. Has anyone ever tried to make one
of those in Shadowrun? Does anyone want to try?
BTW Doc, which version of 40K do you play (if you still do), and which
army?

Grim Shear
"Dammit man, I thought I told you to throw the _Grenade_
not the pin." Spoken soon after telling a _really_ stupid
(and well roleplayed Troll), to pull the pin and throw it.

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Message no. 8
From: Grim Shear grim_shear@*******.com
Subject: Astral Grounding
Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 09:06:27 CDT
>One other option just occurred to me (thanks, Games Workshop!). This >one
>would work best with a bio device. Have you ever read the blurb >on the
>Eversor Assassins in WH40K? <snip>

Personally, thats my favorite assassin. Has anyone ever tried to make one
of those in Shadowrun? Does anyone want to try?
BTW, which version of 40K do you play (if you still do), and which army?
Sorry about my previous message, I thought Doc sent it.

Grim Shear
"Dammit man, I thought I told you to throw the _Grenade_
not the pin." Spoken soon after telling a _really_ stupid
(and well roleplayed Troll), to pull the pin and throw it.

______________________________________________________
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Message no. 9
From: lomion lomion@*********.escnd1.sdca.home.com
Subject: Astral Grounding
Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 08:58:31 -0700
AOkay, I'm as leery as Bruce at putting something like
>that into general gameplay - but as a GM, I see what
>Raije's trying to do and I like the concept. Here's my
>advice.
>
>DON'T make it a generally available item. Ever. Don't
>make it a rarely available item. Don't even make it
>available at delta clinics. Make it a one-off item
>that the players can never get their hands on. How?
>Make it an experimental item that was created by a
>brilliant, but eccentric, mage or biotechnician
>(depending on whether it's a magical focus or a
>biotech item). The villain had it given to him or
>implanted, then he killed the developer and destroyed
>his research to stop anyone else getting his edge.
>Next step - either make the runners destroy it when
>they kill him (bullets can wreck a focus or a bioware
>organ pretty well, y'know), or make them HAVE to
>destroy it in order to kill him (otherwise he's nigh
>indestructible). Third options with bioware - have it
>AUTOMATICALLY be destroyed if he's killed. A
>dual-natured biotech device would likely be rather
>unstable and would just "meltdown" without a living
>body sustaining it.

I agree here, something like this would be a one-shot OH MY GOD IT DOES
WHAT!!!???!!! type of thing

Here are some ideas with it:

1. I'd say it would affect all magic, doesn't matter the source. This
makes it something of a double-edged sword which fits with it being bioware
and/or a foci of some sort.

2. What about overloading it? If it absorbs too much magical energy it
goes boom or something? Probably x amount in Force of spells in a single
combat turn say? The X could be based on a device rating or maybe
willpower x 5? That would give it enough to withstand most spells and be
hard to simply take down that way.

3. As for how it resists it could give it's rating in dice as a resistane
pool, or maybe it reduces the force of a spell by it's rating(this does not
affect the overload number though) making it easier to resist.

4. This thing would be a protoype probably and may have some other strange
side effects? What if the wearer becomes addicted to the rush he gets from
the thing grounding the spell out? Or maybe the implant needs some magic
to keep itself going so he begins seeking out mages for that purpose.

5. Any mage implanted with this would, IMO ose their magical abilities
since this thing would ground them at the source basically.

Could it be attacked fro mthe astral if it has an astral presence?

just some quick thoughts..

--lomion
Message no. 10
From: lomion lomion@*********.escnd1.sdca.home.com
Subject: Astral Grounding
Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 09:52:35 -0700
At 09:06 AM 10/19/99 -0500, you wrote:
>>One other option just occurred to me (thanks, Games Workshop!). This >one
>>would work best with a bio device. Have you ever read the blurb >on the
>>Eversor Assassins in WH40K? <snip>
>
> Personally, thats my favorite assassin. Has anyone ever tried to
> make one of those in Shadowrun? Does anyone want to try?
> BTW, which version of 40K do you play (if you still do), and
> which army?
> Sorry about my previous message, I thought Doc sent it.

assassins were nasty in 40k....theres an idea this dead guy will self
destruct in 5 seconds...

--lomion
Message no. 11
From: Ereskanti@***.com Ereskanti@***.com
Subject: Astral Grounding
Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 13:56:09 EDT
In a message dated 10/19/1999 12:12:05 AM US Eastern Standard Time,
murk@****.org.au writes:

> Mage casts manabolt/mana-based spell/etc. Spell slams into metahuman body.
> Body takes damage/whatever.
>
> Compare this to electricity, where the same would happen, but the person
can
> be 'grounded' so as to reduce/negate the effects of the 'lectricity.
>
> Is it possible to 'Astrally Ground' the person. For example (and just
> example), a dual-natured bioware implant (or something like that) that is
> implanted into the person, and when the person is hit by a mana 'surge'
(ie;
> above normal levels), the excess mana is channeled through the body, and
> into the bioware organ, where it is transfered to the astral plane where it
> cna' do any damage to the target. Of course, this would mean that the
> person then has a glowy thing in his gut but hey, everything about Bioware
> is a tradeoff right?
>
> Yeah, I realise that Spell defense would be easier but you have to be ready
> for it then. And Relfecting and Shielding can't be used by mundanes.
>
> Let meknow what you think because I want to scare the drek out of my
players
> when they hit someone with a volley of deadly manabolts...and he keeps
> coming...
>
> /Raije grins wickedly

Raije, I have to give you credit, the idea is a "neat" one, but I just don't
think it'll work like that. At least, not yet. The idea of a "dual natured
bioware implant" is very interesting, but I think the rejection level alone
would be scarey. I also know there are other problems that you didn't at
least mention. The body "template" in SR is just that, a "whole body
template". Damage to one part of the template is reflected and/or displayed
upon the template whole. Changing one part of the template would therefore,
IMO, be reflected upon the whole.

Effectively, the whole person would be Dual Natured IMO, were such a thing
possible.

Additionally, and though I like do like this idea, and have thought about it
for some time actually, this is one method of actually viewing the Dispelling
abilities anyone with active usage of Sorcery can now perform.

Now then, the idea for a metatalent that could do this, a sort of "Passive
Spell Defense" that is always on would also be really cool, but really
powerful for most games.

I know, you were trying to come up with something a "mundane" could have to
pull this off with. Again, I just don't believe it would be possible to do
and/or perform.

-K
[Hoosier Hacker House]
[http://members.aol.com/hhackerh/intro.htm]
ICQ#-51511837
Message no. 12
From: Ereskanti@***.com Ereskanti@***.com
Subject: Astral Grounding
Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 14:01:11 EDT
In a message dated 10/19/1999 12:31:13 AM US Eastern Standard Time,
lomion@*********.escnd1.sdca.home.com writes:

> This almost reminds me of a reverse form of grounding a focus. What
> would the excess energy in the astral do exactly? I'd think it could hurt
> the person still, maybe it would convert it to light or something? Maybe
> as the person gets hit they start to glow big time? I'd think it would be
> more of a special kind of foci that was implanted into the wearer in some
> special ceremony (think like that commercial for that PC game shadowman,
> the mask in his chest). Also i doubt an implant would be able to tell
good
> from bad so it would ground all magic or attempt to, what happens if it
> overloads (kerblewey?) You could have it htat it gives x number of dice
to
> resits all magic, treat it like a pool for magical defense, and have it
try
> and stop any magic, but only magic targeted at the wearer, i don't think
it
> would stop area of effect spells.

The idea he's looking for is simple "dispersing" the energy back into the
Astral by some means or method. The analogy of electricity is simply a bit
*off*.

> >Let meknow what you think because I want to scare the drek out of my
> players
> >when they hit someone with a volley of deadly manabolts...and he keeps
> >coming...
>
> that sounds like a pretty cool idea though heh.

Doesn't it though? I have to admit, I think this would make for a really
psychotic form of magical defense.
Message no. 13
From: Richard Tomasso rtomasso@*******.com
Subject: Astral Grounding
Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 14:07:58 -0400 (EDT)
Raije wrote:
> Mage casts manabolt/mana-based spell/etc. Spell slams into metahuman body.
> Body takes damage/whatever.
>
> Compare this to electricity, where the same would happen, but the person can
> be 'grounded' so as to reduce/negate the effects of the 'lectricity.

Not to nitpick, but grounding allows the energy to flow through the body
easier. Being insulated protects you from electricity.


> Is it possible to 'Astrally Ground' the person. For example (and just
> example), a dual-natured bioware implant (or something like that) that is
> implanted into the person, and when the person is hit by a mana 'surge' (ie;
> above normal levels), the excess mana is channeled through the body, and
> into the bioware organ, where it is transfered to the astral plane where it
> cna' do any damage to the target. Of course, this would mean that the
> person then has a glowy thing in his gut but hey, everything about Bioware
> is a tradeoff right?

How about this:

SIPHONING FOCUS

Cost: 100,000 x Force
Bonding: 3 x Force in Karma

Effect: A Siphoning Focus is a special type of focus that acts as a channel
for astral energy, directing it back to the astral plane from the physcial.
While active, the Focus will direct a portion of the astral energy back into
the local astral space. The force of any spell effect directed at or coming
from the wearer of the focus is reduced by the rating of the focus. This
energy can be seen as a pool of random light 1 meter in diamater per force
rating reduced. It dissipates by 1 meter per round. Drain is not affected.
All perception attempts which cross the pool of light are at +2 TN. If a
spell is reduced to force 0, it has no effect on the target.

IE. Adam successfully casts a Force 5 manabolt spell at Bob. Luckily, Bob
had his Force 2 Siphoning Focus active, so a portion of the manabolt's
energy was redirected into astral space, resulting in Bob having to resist
a Force 3 manabolt. In astra space, a 2-meter wide pool of light is seen
around Bob, which will last for 2 rounds.

IE. Bob decides to cast a Force 6 powerbolt back at Adam. Since his focus
is still active, the powerbolt is reduced to Force 4 against Adam, and a
2-meter wide pool of astral energy will surround Bob. Bob still takes drain
as though he cast the spell at force 6, however.
Message no. 14
From: Rand Ratinac docwagon101@*****.com
Subject: Astral Grounding
Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 19:27:08 -0700 (PDT)
<Snippola(TM)>
> 2. What about overloading it? If it absorbs too
much magical energy it goes boom or something?
Probably x amount in Force of spells in a single
combat turn say? The X could be based on a device
rating or maybe willpower x 5? That would give it
enough to withstand most spells and be hard to simply
take down that way.
<Snippage(TM)>
> --lomion

Ooh, that stimulates the creative juices. Here's an
addition to Lomion's idea that owes its existence to
SR barriers, an Earthdawn spell and an item in
RuneQuest (believe it or not).

What if the device DOES make Mr. Bad Guy invulnerable
to magic (and if you want to get really nasty, to
OTHER forms of damage by letting him regenerate) - but
it can only absorb a certain amount of magic per
combat round (measured in force, probably). Either
your players will find out when they eventually manage
to pump him full of enough magic to explode, or they
fail miserably and have to research a way to defeat
him.

*"Dishes are done, man. Oh, errr...whatever..."*

====Doc'
(aka Mr. Freaky Big, Super-Dynamic Troll of Tomorrow)

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Message no. 15
From: Rand Ratinac docwagon101@*****.com
Subject: Astral Grounding
Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 19:53:56 -0700 (PDT)
> Personally, thats my favorite assassin. Has anyone
ever tried to make one of those in Shadowrun? Does
anyone want to try?

Afraid not. Started writing a story for one, though.
I'm thinking of turning it into a short story and
submitting it to Inferno!


> BTW, which version of 40K do you play (if you still
do), and which army?

Never did, except for a few times with some high
school friends who had the game. Miniature gaming is
too expensive for my blood. Follow it, though. One of
these days, when I can afford to buy an army and have
someone with a modicum of skill paint it for me...:)


> Sorry about my previous message, I thought Doc sent
it.
> Grim Shear

I did. Who else would have?

8-)

*Doc' is eclectic, man...or maybe he just likes using
odd words...*

====Doc'
(aka Mr. Freaky Big, Super-Dynamic Troll of Tomorrow)

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Message no. 16
From: Raije murk@****.org.au
Subject: Astral Grounding
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 17:50:58 +1000
> <Snippola(TM)>
> > OK. I've never heard of anything as weird as a
> "dual-natured bioware implant " but I take your point.
> It might be possible to do this with a dedicated
> focus, but you'll probably be better off, in terms of
> game balance to just use spell defence.
> >
> > >Yeah, I realise that Spell defense would be easier
> but you have to be ready for it then. And Relfecting
> and Shielding can't be used by mundanes.
> >
> > Well. thats why initiates can use shielding as a
> meta-talent and protect the whole group. It would not
> be good from a game blalace angle to have the cyber
> guys be so resistant to magic. Would your theory cover
> healing spells as well, after all, they do push mana
> in large amounts throught the body. Perhaps this could
> be similiar to the Magic Resistant edge.
> >
> > >Let meknow what you think because I want to scare
> the drek out of my players when they hit someone with
> a volley of deadly manabolts...and he keeps coming...
> >
> > This can be done if the targets friendly mage buddy
> is shielding him.....
> > Bruce <gyro@********.co.za>
>
> Okay, I'm as leery as Bruce at putting something like
> that into general gameplay - but as a GM, I see what
> Raije's trying to do and I like the concept. Here's my
> advice.
>
> DON'T make it a generally available item. Ever. Don't
> make it a rarely available item. Don't even make it
> available at delta clinics. Make it a one-off item
> that the players can never get their hands on. How?
> Make it an experimental item that was created by a
> brilliant, but eccentric, mage or biotechnician
> (depending on whether it's a magical focus or a
> biotech item). The villain had it given to him or
> implanted, then he killed the developer and destroyed
> his research to stop anyone else getting his edge.
> Next step - either make the runners destroy it when
> they kill him (bullets can wreck a focus or a bioware
> organ pretty well, y'know), or make them HAVE to
> destroy it in order to kill him (otherwise he's nigh
> indestructible). Third options with bioware - have it
> AUTOMATICALLY be destroyed if he's killed. A
> dual-natured biotech device would likely be rather
> unstable and would just "meltdown" without a living
> body sustaining it.
>
> One other option just occurred to me (thanks, Games
> Workshop!). This one would work best with a bio
> device. Have you ever read the blurb on the Eversor
> Assassins in WH40K? Basically, these guys are the
> ultimate combat monsters, but to get that way, they're
> pumped full of combat trugs and toxic substances. When
> they die, without the control of their enhanced
> bodies, these substances go critical and their corpses
> explode. Kinda like a natural cranial bomb. You could
> do the same thing here. And this could be especially
> nasty if he doesn't have any cyber. If any of the
> mages assensed him, they'd SEE he doesn't have cyber
> and not be expecting his body to blow up once he's
> dead...
>
> Of course, that's if you want the villain to be a
> one-man army. If you don't mind him sharing the glory,
> have a high-grade initiate pal of his use shielding on
> him.
>


Thank you Doc! That's exactly what I was thinking. If anybody wants to see
my sketchy plan for the run, let me know. It's been planned for a while
now, but the word document is a bit...higgledy piggledy. I started
transforming it into something peeps could understand but haven't gotten
around to finis it...I'd be happy to get some feedback on it if you want to
see it :-)

_____________________sabrepunk@**********.net_
Raije
sabrepunk@**********.net
UIN-2799894
~Simple Guide to Cyberpunk~
http://gateway.to/cyberpunk/
"Shit Happens, So Carry Toilet Paper"
Message no. 17
From: Raije murk@****.org.au
Subject: Astral Grounding
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 18:06:21 +1000
<snip the various accumulations>

just a thought that popped into my head...perhaps it could work like the
critter regeneration power

BTW, thanx heaps for all your sugestions and help. Things are starting ot
fall into place now, and the runners are getting some pre-run clues that has
already freaked one of them out (eg "what would you do if you hit someone
with that deadly manabolt of yours and they didn't drop...and they had a
willpower of 3?")

_____________________sabrepunk@**********.net_
Raije
sabrepunk@**********.net
UIN-2799894
~Simple Guide to Cyberpunk~
http://gateway.to/cyberpunk/
"Shit Happens, So Carry Toilet Paper"
Message no. 18
From: Raije murk@****.org.au
Subject: Astral Grounding
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 18:12:54 +1000
> How about this:
>
> SIPHONING FOCUS
>
> Cost: 100,000 x Force
> Bonding: 3 x Force in Karma
<snip explanation>

very Kewl Richard, very cool. I might use that for another one later on as
a direct result from the R&D...

_____________________sabrepunk@**********.net_
Raije
sabrepunk@**********.net
UIN-2799894
~Simple Guide to Cyberpunk~
http://gateway.to/cyberpunk/
"Shit Happens, So Carry Toilet Paper"
Message no. 19
From: Grim Shear grim_shear@*******.com
Subject: Astral Grounding
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 08:17:42 CDT
>assassins were nasty in 40k....theres an idea this dead guy will self
>destruct in 5 seconds...
>--lomion

Actually, In 2nd Edition 40k it was: he'll keep fighting until the next
turn, then blow up. Likely (in Shadowrun) use all of his turns that pass
round (30, 20, 10) then blow up.
I liked the Needle Pistol (half of the Executioner). It sounds kinda
like leathal Narcojet.

Grim Shear
"Dammit man, I thought I told you to throw the _Grenade_
not the pin." Spoken soon after telling a _really_ stupid
(and well roleplayed Troll), to pull the pin and throw it.

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Message no. 20
From: Grim Shear grim_shear@*******.com
Subject: Astral Grounding
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 09:46:12 CDT
>Afraid not. Started writing a story for one, though. I'm thinking of
> >turning it into a short story and submitting it to Inferno!

>Never did, except for a few times with some high school friends who >had
>the game. Miniature gaming is too expensive for my blood. Follow >it,
>though. One of these days, when I can afford to buy an army and >have
>someone with a modicum of skill paint it for me...:)

>I did. Who else would have?

I'll have to keep an eye out for that. And miniature gaming from GW is
very definently too expensive. Try painting on (realativly) cheap miniatures
(like Ral Partha or something). I started painting 120 someodd miniatures
ago, and I have improved _a lot_.
As to the apology, sometimes I get a little messed up when I'm reading
things. I sent the reply, saw something else at the top of the screen, then
sent the apology.

Grim Shear
"Dammit man, I thought I told you to throw the _Grenade_
not the pin." Spoken soon after telling a _really_ stupid
(and well roleplayed Troll), to pull the pin and throw it.

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Message no. 21
From: Frank Pelletier (Trinity) fpelletier@******.usherb.ca
Subject: Astral Grounding
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 11:05:38 -0400
Grim Shear <grim_shear@*******.com>

(snipped)

> Actually, In 2nd Edition 40k it was: he'll keep fighting until the
next
> turn, then blow up. Likely (in Shadowrun) use all of his turns that pass
> round (30, 20, 10) then blow up.
> I liked the Needle Pistol (half of the Executioner). It sounds kinda
> like leathal Narcojet.

Actually, all of W40ks assassins would be plausible in 40k. The Eversor
and Vindicare are pretty mundane (H-to-H cybered up freak and the cold,
calculating, Morph Seeking rifle Sniper.).

The Calidus would be hard. Ruthenium polymers could make her camouflage
work, but how do you morph her into another human being? I saw somewhere, I
think it was Tim Bradley's Gyre page (TimB, hey, LTNS), where he invented
some sort of plastic bone system, that worked like piso-electrical strips
(metals that bend when you apply small ammounts of electricity to them).
The bone would bend, muscles would move, change, and you could copy roughly
the outlines and bones structures of another person. Add in cybereyes with
dynamic iris coloring, and voilà. Only problem is hair, though.

My favorite W40k to SR Assassin would be the Culexus. I mean, the story
behind him is cool (Ever read the opinion of the Eldar on him? Hey hey).
He's someone that does not exist. He's a zone of nullspace, nothingness.
That's why mages in w40k (or in SR) are so deathly afraid of him. We all
know the cold vacuum of space sucks out mana, makes it impossible to use
magic. Now imagine someone that's the living impersonation of that vacuum.
It would be pretty easy to work out rules that would make magic harder to
cast the closer you would be to him.

Hell, he could be a by-product of that whole astral pollution deal (with the
corrupted entities, horrors, cybermancy, etc.). I think that with
heavy-duty blood rituals, you could make someone that had NO astral imprint,
that would be an astral vortex, hence sucking magic right out of space, like
a vacuum without life.

Of course, the bastards who'd volunteer (maybe not) to undergo such rituals
and cybermods would be soulless, fearless, lifeless killing machines.
Kinda like Cybermancy taken at the extreme. The ultimate mage killer.

Yeah...that sounds very, very nice...

Trinity
---------------------------------------------
Frank Pelletier
fpelletier@******.usherb.ca
"Let them hate me, provided they fear me" - Atreus

Trinity- on the Undernet and EFNet
Message no. 22
From: Grim Shear grim_shear@*******.com
Subject: Astral Grounding
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 10:24:27 CDT
<snip>Only problem is hair, though.

>My favorite W40k to SR Assassin would be the Culexus. I mean, the >story
>behind him is cool (Ever read the opinion of the Eldar on him? > Hey hey).
>He's someone that does not exist. He's a zone of >nullspace, nothingness.
>That's why mages in w40k (or in SR) are so >deathly afraid of him. We all
>know the cold vacuum of space sucks >out mana, makes it impossible to use
>magic. Now imagine someone >that's the living impersonation of that
>vacuum. It would be pretty >easy to work out rules that would make magic
>harder to cast the >closer you would be to him.

>Hell, he could be a by-product of that whole astral pollution deal >(with
>the corrupted entities, horrors, cybermancy, etc.). I think >that with
>heavy-duty blood rituals, you could make someone that had >NO astral
>imprint, that would be an astral vortex, hence sucking >magic right out of
>space, like a vacuum without life.
>Of course, the bastards who'd volunteer (maybe not) to undergo such rituals
>and cybermods would be soulless, fearless, lifeless killing machines<snip>

If you can change size, shape and colour, why would hair be a problem.
You could do it with a plastic.
It was _so_ funny to see a Hive Tyrant (a _really, really BIG_ bug)
fleeing in terror from this guy. I can see how a Black, Sucking Void in
Astral space would freak out most mages.
They could be the target of one of those rituals, or whatever. Or they
could just be a Freak. In 40k they're just Pariah's (outcasts) who people
feel uncomfortable around. After they've been trained they're really
dangerous.
Want to have a go at converting them?

Grim Shear
"Dammit man, I thought I told you to throw the _Grenade_
not the pin." Spoken soon after telling a _really_ stupid
(and well roleplayed Troll), to pull the pin and throw it.

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Message no. 23
From: Rand Ratinac docwagon101@*****.com
Subject: Astral Grounding
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 19:47:29 -0700 (PDT)
> I'll have to keep an eye out for that.

Well, you'll have to wait for a while, if indeed they
decide to accept it. :) Right now I'm waiting for Marc
Gascoigne (anyone remember him? :) ) to get back to me
about a WH Fantasy-based story idea I've had.

> And miniature gaming from GW is very definently too
expensive. Try painting on (realativly) cheap
miniatures (like Ral Partha or something). I started
painting 120 someodd miniatures ago, and I have
improved _a lot_.

Hmmm...might do. Then again, I already have two other
expensive and time-consuming hobbies (computer and
role-playing games) and a third that eats up
practically the rest of my time (writing). One of
these days, when I'm a) rich and don't have to work,
or b) being paid to write, so I don't have to use my
spare time for that. :)

> As to the apology, sometimes I get a little
messed up when I'm reading things. I sent the reply,
saw something else at the top of the screen, then sent
the apology.
> Grim Shear

Ahhh...happens to the best of us. :)

*"Hell, Doc' is ALWAYS confused.

"Who said that?!?!"*

====Doc'
(aka Mr. Freaky Big, Super-Dynamic Troll of Tomorrow)

.sig Sauer
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Message no. 24
From: Sebastian Wiers m0ng005e@*****.com
Subject: Astral Grounding
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 15:49:25 -0500
:How about this:
:
:SIPHONING FOCUS
:
:Cost: 100,000 x Force
:Bonding: 3 x Force in Karma
:
:Effect: <snip> The force of any spell effect directed at or coming
:from the wearer of the focus is reduced by the rating of the focus.

Some technical details still unanswered. First, who can bind this focus
type? Full, aspected, or adept awakened characters? I'd think it would
have to be somebody who can normally cast spells, since it affects spells.
If is like most foci, it could only be active if the binding character were
to carry it- the only foci type that can be active while not in contact with
its owner is the sustaining focus.
In any case, I think the above focus is probably a bit cheep to bind.
Make it higher, in the event it might fall into PC hands- who cares about
NPC karma costs? Its also a rather bizarre function for a focus- it doesn't
"focus" any ability the character has, it works all on its own! It might
fall into the category of a "unique" focus pretty well, but in that case I'd
make bonding it a REAL challenge, likely involving an astral quest at 2x
rating, or leering to use the focus as a metamagical technique (finding a
teacher could be interesting). I'd also be leery of any focus whose power
does not seem to come form the user...

Mongoose
Message no. 25
From: Sebastian Wiers m0ng005e@*****.com
Subject: Astral Grounding
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 18:48:05 -0500
:SR3 page 176.
:
:"To destroy the object, the Force must be reduced to zero, and the
:attacker must then make a Charisma Test against twice the object's
:original Force. Only one success is necessary to destroy the object"

On the same page, the last paragraph in that section also mentions that
a mana spell that does deadly damage destroys a barrier, focus, or other
astral object. Lesser damage reduces the force (temporarily). That makes
"manaball" and "stunball" potentially nasty spells to cast at mages
with
active foci, no matter what plane you are on.
Foci can DEFINTELY still be destoryed, and in pretty much the same ways
as before (though they got toughend up a bit, with thier own karma pools).
The only lack is the big bang when you cast a physical spell at them from
astral spce- because you can't cast physical spells in astral space, not
because spells don't affect active foci!
Which makes me wonder- what is the house rules folks use for grounding
as a metamagical technique? Does it allow you to cast physical spells while
astral (normally impossible), as long as the target is dual? Does it allow
AE mana spells to affect "secondary" targets through grounding, which did
not happen in SR2 grounding?

Mognoose
Message no. 26
From: Lee Decker deckerl@******.com
Subject: Astral Grounding
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 21:42:00 -0400
> Which makes me wonder- what is the house rules folks use
> for grounding
> as a metamagical technique? Does it allow you to cast
> physical spells while
> astral (normally impossible), as long as the target is dual?
> Does it allow
> AE mana spells to affect "secondary" targets through
> grounding, which did
> not happen in SR2 grounding?
>
Basically mine follow the example of SR2. YOu can cast physical spells that
ground into a target as long
as the target is dual.
Message no. 27
From: Sebastian Wiers m0ng005e@*****.com
Subject: Astral Grounding
Date: Sat, 23 Oct 1999 21:38:03 -0500
:Of course, the bastards who'd volunteer (maybe not) to undergo such rituals
:and cybermods would be soulless, fearless, lifeless killing machines.
:Kinda like Cybermancy taken at the extreme. The ultimate mage killer.

One thing that's interesting to note is that Cyberzombies create a
background count in places they visit, per the new
MaM rules. It accumulates at +1 BGC per hour, and the effect eventually
reaches a level equal to half thier negative essence value.

Wierd question- if the cyberzombie had an essence of negative 6,
would that create a void? Of course, wouldn't that void then kill the
cyberzombie? I suppose he'd better keep moving... Obviously, I can't
really see anybody actually becoming a -12 essence cyberzombie; the surgical
TN would be 34 (failure meaning death), and the side effects would be
cripling.

Mongoose
Message no. 28
From: Sebastian Wiers m0ng005e@*****.com
Subject: Astral Grounding
Date: Sat, 23 Oct 1999 23:14:08 -0500
:per the new
:MaM rules

F###ing "draft" folder glitch...

Oh well.
Message no. 29
From: Ereskanti@***.com Ereskanti@***.com
Subject: Astral Grounding
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1999 14:51:38 EDT
In a message dated 10/23/1999 9:31:19 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
m0ng005e@*****.com writes:

> :Of course, the bastards who'd volunteer (maybe not) to undergo such rituals
> :and cybermods would be soulless, fearless, lifeless killing machines.
> :Kinda like Cybermancy taken at the extreme. The ultimate mage killer.
>
> One thing that's interesting to note is that Cyberzombies create a
> background count in places they visit, per the new
> MaM rules. It accumulates at +1 BGC per hour, and the effect eventually
> reaches a level equal to half thier negative essence value.

I have to ask. Where did you get permission to discuss this on the list now?
These are details, not referentials.

> Wierd question- if the cyberzombie had an essence of negative 6,
> would that create a void? Of course, wouldn't that void then kill the
> cyberzombie? I suppose he'd better keep moving... Obviously, I can't
> really see anybody actually becoming a -12 essence cyberzombie; the
surgical
> TN would be 34 (failure meaning death), and the side effects would be
> cripling.

It should be noted, that using the rule you suggest, a Cyberzombie above with
a "-6" would only be able to generate a 3 point background count modifier.
That same rule to me also reads they are only capable of creating "up to a 3
point BC rating" at the maximum.

-K
[Hoosier Hacker House]
[http://members.aol.com/hhackerh/intro.htm]
ICQ#-51511837
Message no. 30
From: Ereskanti@***.com Ereskanti@***.com
Subject: Astral Grounding
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1999 14:53:18 EDT
In a message dated 10/23/1999 10:41:27 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
m0ng005e@*****.com writes:

>
> F###ing "draft" folder glitch...
>
> Oh well.
>
Ah, this might explain things earlier...

-K
[Hoosier Hacker House]
[http://members.aol.com/hhackerh/intro.htm]
ICQ#-51511837
Message no. 31
From: Sommers sommers@*****.umich.edu
Subject: Astral Grounding
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1999 15:23:45 -0400
At 02:51 PM 10/25/99 , Ereskanti@***.com wrote:
> > One thing that's interesting to note is that Cyberzombies create a
> > background count in places they visit, per the new
> > MaM rules. It accumulates at +1 BGC per hour, and the effect eventually
> > reaches a level equal to half thier negative essence value.
>
>I have to ask. Where did you get permission to discuss this on the list now?
> These are details, not referentials.

I think that was a rule from Cybertechnology also. I do remember that there
was a rule in there about Background Count, which was also mentioned in
several novels.

Sommers
Insert witty quote here.

Further Reading

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