Back to the main page

Mailing List Logs for ShadowRN

Message no. 1
From: Gabriel Sims <grendel_22@*******.COM>
Subject: Astral Manifestation
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 12:21:43 PDT
Private, First Class Bio-Hazard Reporting for duty, sah! 8)

This deals with burning bright...

S
P
O
I
L
E
R

S
P
A
C
E

All righty then, I was reading burning bright last night and in the
book: Kyle Teller manifested from the astral plane, I didn't think
that was possible. Am I right?

While in the astral, Kyle could "hear" people talking if the
sound didn't come from electronic devices. I didn't think this was
possible. Is it?

I'm thinking that this was just some artistic license but, I wanted
confirmation so...

Bio-Hazard_apparently_the_only_person_here_that_liked_Shadowboxer...

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
Message no. 2
From: "Jackson, Hank" <Hank.Jackson@*********.COM>
Subject: Re: Astral Manifestation
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 15:45:44 -0400
On 16 Sep 97, Gabriel Sims mentioned:

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> This deals with burning bright...
>
> S
> P
> O
> I
> L
> E
> R
>
> S
> P
> A
> C
> E
>
>>>All righty then, I was reading burning bright last night and
in the
>>>book: Kyle Teller manifested from the astral plane, I didn't
think
>>>that was possible. Am I right?

IIRC an astral magician can make his form appear physically, but it will
be noncorporial. It will move through solid objects and will appear
transparent. I think it was written up in the BBB almost as a toss away
rule.

> >>> While in the astral, Kyle could "hear" people talking if
the
>>>sound didn't come from electronic devices. I didn't think
this was
>>>possible. Is it?

I didn't realize that sound translated perfectly through astral space.
I though a magician could only get emotive impressions of what was being
said, not the actual words. I'd have to look it up to be sure.

>>>I'm thinking that this was just some artistic license but, I
wanted
>>>confirmation so...

Probably some, but it's cool with me. I liked Burning Bright.


>>>Bio-Hazard_apparently_the_only_person_here_that_liked_Shadowboxer...
Message no. 3
From: Justin Pinnow <vanyel@*******.NET>
Subject: Re: Astral Manifestation
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 19:33:50 -0400
> From: Gabriel Sims <grendel_22@*******.COM>
> Date: Tuesday, September 16, 1997 3:21 PM

> This deals with burning bright...

>
> S
> P
> O
> I
> L
> E
> R





> S
> P
> A
> C
> E




> All righty then, I was reading burning bright last night and in the
> book: Kyle Teller manifested from the astral plane, I didn't think
> that was possible. Am I right?

It is very possible. Watchers and Astrally Projecting beings can "appear"
to the physical world, but they are not truly manifesting. They appear as
a ghost would, having no substance and not being able to affect the
physical world (they can't touch or pick up anything, etc.). Other spirits
actually manifest using the power of Manifestation. This actually makes
them ONLY present in the physical plane and grants some immunity to
weapons, etc. Astrally projecting beings and Watchers are always ONLY
present in the Astral Plane, even when they "appear" in the physical plane.
Make sense? :) The word "manifest" can become confusing when referring
to this, I know.

> While in the astral, Kyle could "hear" people talking if the
> sound didn't come from electronic devices. I didn't think this was
> possible. Is it?

Yes, it is. However, I still sometimes wonder why the sense of hearing is
allowed more leeway than the other senses. As far as the canon rules are
concerned, you can only hear words when they come directly from a being's
mouth. If they are processed in any way, you can get emotional content,
but not the actual words. I am unsure of whether you have to appear to the
physical world in order to try to hear the words or not, but I would rule
that you do. (Basically, by appearing in the physical, you bring yourself
that much closer to the physical plane, thus allowing yourself to hear
words that aren't processed.) Also, you have to "appear" to the physical
plane in order to speak with anyone who is only present there. Once you
"appear" you can hold a conversation with a group of mundanes just fine.
As a roleplaying aspect, you can describe the Astrally Projecting being's
voice as being kind of ethereal and airy, or something to add flavor, or
whatever.

With vision, you can see the aura (spiritual aspect) of a being, as well as
emotional aspects, and can detect physical ailments, etc. However, you can
under no circumstances make out physical features from the Astral Plane.
This is why there is a +2 TN modifier to any attempts to do something
purely mundane while Astrally Perceiving.

Now, it is important to note that while the rules sometimes break down
Astral Perception into the various senses, this ability isn't really based
upon the physical senses. It's just easier to describe Astral Perception
that way, because we can relate to them better. In reality (according to
the rules), Astral Perception is more mystical than that, and isn't as
straightforward.

> I'm thinking that this was just some artistic license but, I wanted
> confirmation so...

Nope, that was all canon. There are other instances where he uses artistic
license quite liberally in that book, however. :)

> Bio-Hazard_apparently_the_only_person_here_that_liked_Shadowboxer...

Justin :)
Message no. 4
From: Stefan <casanova@******.PASSAGEN.SE>
Subject: Re: Astral Manifestation
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 01:48:28 +0000
> Private, First Class Bio-Hazard Reporting for duty, sah! 8)
>
> This deals with burning bright...
>
> S
> P
> O
> I
> L
> E
> R
>
> S
> P
> A
> C
> E
>
> All righty then, I was reading burning bright last night and in the
> book: Kyle Teller manifested from the astral plane, I didn't think
> that was possible. Am I right?

It is possible to manifest yourself on a place where you are but your
body isn't but you will appear more ghost or spirit like since you
won't have a "real" body but more like a sort of transparent ghost
image of yourself (I hope I have read this correctly) ... atleast
that is like we have always done it ..

> While in the astral, Kyle could "hear" people talking if the
> sound didn't come from electronic devices. I didn't think this was
> possible. Is it?

Not sure about this .. I think you can here sound but it's not very
clear just as you can see signs and so on but you just can't read
them ..

> Bio-Hazard_apparently_the_only_person_here_that_liked_Shadowboxer...

I liked the begining but it got messed up in the last 1/3 but I read
it to the end anyway ...

/Stefan

------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Frag you and the datastream you came on!" - Sinjin the decker
------------------------------------------------------------------------
... E-Mail .............................. casanova@***.passagen.se ...
... HomePage .............................. http://hsl.home.ml.org ...
... ICQ .................................................. 1403212 ...
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Message no. 5
From: "J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Astral Manifestation
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 21:59:57 -0400
In a message dated 97-09-16 15:22:33 EDT, grendel_22@*******.COM writes:

> Private, First Class Bio-Hazard Reporting for duty, sah! 8)

At ease son-

> This deals with burning bright...
>
> S
> P
> O
> I
> L
> E
> R
>
> S
> P
> A
> C
> E
>
> All righty then, I was reading burning bright last night and in the
> book: Kyle Teller manifested from the astral plane, I didn't think
> that was possible. Am I right?
>
> While in the astral, Kyle could "hear" people talking if the
> sound didn't come from electronic devices. I didn't think this was
> possible. Is it?

Yes, but you are NOT able to tangibly interact (aka, pick something up and
touch/move) with the physical world. However, try using a spirit/elementals
power of "Manifestation" as a service, and not a power all to it's self
sometime.

> I'm thinking that this was just some artistic license but, I wanted
> confirmation so...
>
> Bio-Hazard_apparently_the_only_person_here_that_liked_Shadowboxer...

Nope, I enjoyed it as well, but it took -HUGE- leaps of artistic/poetic
license that are likely to send shockwaves through the Shadowrun Gaming
Community (What the hell is a "cold <insert weird computer name here>"
anyway?
Message no. 6
From: Mike Bobroff <AirWisp@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Astral Manifestation
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 01:36:07 -0400
In a message dated 97-09-16 15:22:33 EDT, you write:

> All righty then, I was reading burning bright last night and in the
> book: Kyle Teller manifested from the astral plane, I didn't think
> that was possible. Am I right?

Mages can manifest into the real world, though true physical interaction is
not possible.

> While in the astral, Kyle could "hear" people talking if the
> sound didn't come from electronic devices. I didn't think this was
> possible. Is it?

Because the astral deals more with stuff from the living than from the
living-impaired (machines in other words).

> I'm thinking that this was just some artistic license but, I wanted
> confirmation so...
Message no. 7
From: Chris Maxfield <cmaxfiel@****.ORG.AU>
Subject: Re: Astral Manifestation
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 17:11:18 +1000
At 19:33 16/09/97 -0400, Justin Pinnow wrote:
>> This deals with burning bright...
>
>>
>> S
>> P
>> O
>> I
>> L
>> E
>> R
>
>
>
>
>
>> S
>> P
>> A
>> C
>> E
>
>
>
>
>physical world (they can't touch or pick up anything, etc.). Other spirits
>actually manifest using the power of Manifestation. This actually makes
>them ONLY present in the physical plane and grants some immunity to

No. I believe this is wrong. A Manifested spirit is present on both planes
and is therefore Dual Natured (p87 Grimmy).

>With vision, you can see the aura (spiritual aspect) of a being, as well as
>emotional aspects, and can detect physical ailments, etc. However, you can
>under no circumstances make out physical features from the Astral Plane.

I believe the 'Astral Echo' of the physical world in the astral carries
more information than you may give it credit for. I think you can make out
physical features - just not textures or colours, giving the +2 to target
numbers. This distinction can be important. You would not be able to find a
blond, green-eyed women from astral space but I believe you could possibly
find a human female with certain physical dimensions and characteristics
such as long hair.

Chris

_______________________________________________________________
Chris Maxfield We are restless because of incessant
<cmaxfiel@****.org.au> change, but we would be frightened if
Canberra, Australia change were stopped.
Message no. 8
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: Astral Manifestation
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 12:31:54 +0100
Gabriel Sims said on 12:21/16 Sep 97...

> Private, First Class Bio-Hazard Reporting for duty, sah! 8)
>
> This deals with burning bright...
>
> S
> P
> O
> I
> L
> E
> R
>
> S
> P
> A
> C
> E
>
> All righty then, I was reading burning bright last night and in the
> book: Kyle Teller manifested from the astral plane, I didn't think
> that was possible. Am I right?

You're wrong. He manifested in the same way a watcher spirit can: he made
himself visible and audible on the physical plane, but couldn't touch
anything. He was still bound by the astral movement rules, even though he
was visible on the physical plane. It's somewhere in the Grimoire, if you
want game "rules" for it.

> While in the astral, Kyle could "hear" people talking if the
> sound didn't come from electronic devices. I didn't think this was
> possible. Is it?

This is another fundamental rule of astral space: real sounds can be
heard, recorded sounds cannot. If you were to listen to a record player
from astral space, all you'd hear would be the needle going through the
grooves, just like if you were on the physical plane and had the volume
turned down to nothing. On the other hand the sounds produced by an
accoustic instrument (guitar, piano, flute, etc.) would be clearly
audible.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Zijn generatie twijfelt, maar weet niet eens waaraan.
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version 3.1:
GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+ PE
Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
Message no. 9
From: Steve Kenson <TalonMail@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Astral Manifestation
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 15:49:30 -0400
My thoughts (IMHO, of course):

MANIFESTATION
All astral beings have the ability to manifest, that is, to exercise their
willpower to become visible and audible to other living beings in the
physical world. The astral form appears as a ghostly image and can be heard.
The astral form's touch can be felt like a phantom breeze, a chill or a
tingling, and the manifestation may even carry a ghostly scent with it. All
of these sensations are psychic in nature, completely in the mind of the
beholder. Mechanical devices like cameras and microphones pick up no traces
of manifest astral forms. So, an astral form could manifest and speak with a
physical person in a room monitored by a security camera and all the camera
would see is the person standing and talking to thin air.

MATERIALIZATION
Some astral beings (like many spirits) also have the ability to materialize,
creating an actual physical body for themselves which they can use to
interact with things in the physical world. While in material form, the
spirit functions as a dual being. No known spirit is able to materialize
completely into the physical world, leaving only a passive astral form, the
spirit's astral form always remains active.

As you can see, I favor the term "materialize" (to make material) over the
current official "manifestation" (to make apparent or visible). Manifestation
better suits an astral form becoming visible (but still intangible) to
physical beings, and cuts down on confusion (I hope).

Steve K/
Message no. 10
From: Brett Borger <bxb121@***.EDU>
Subject: Re: Astral Manifestation
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 16:37:18 EST
> MANIFESTATION
> MATERIALIZATION

> As you can see, I favor the term "materialize" (to make material)
> over the current official "manifestation" (to make apparent or
> visible). Manifestation better suits an astral form becoming visible
> (but still intangible) to physical beings, and cuts down on
> confusion (I hope).
>

Sounds good. I hope this one gets implemented. :)

-=SwiftOne=-
Message no. 11
From: Barbie <barbie@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: Astral Manifestation
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 22:17:43 -0500
At 18-Sep-97 wrote Steve Kenson:

>My thoughts (IMHO, of course):

>MANIFESTATION
[snip]
Agreed, we do it over here in the same spirit.

>MATERIALIZATION
[snip]
agreed too.

All in all, nice plain and simple, put this in the rulebook
and we have fewer problems.

--
Barbie


One lived hour is still living.
Message no. 12
From: Mike Elkins <MikeE@*********.COM>
Subject: Re: Astral Manifestation -Reply
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 17:57:32 -0500
Steve Kenson wrote:

>MANIFESTATION
>All astral beings have the ability to manifest,
>that is, to exercise their willpower to become
>visible and audible to other living beings in the
>physical world. The astral form appears as a
>ghostly image and can be heard.

My 2 cents: Exactly how people "see" mainfested
spirits should be culturally dependent (although it
should always be difficult to mistake a
manifestation for a physical being). Japanese
folklore says ghosts have no feet, for instance.
Other cultures might smell "brimstone" or see
"halos" depending on the nature of the being
manifesting. Note that it is up to the perceiver's
subconscious, not to manifestors.

I also think it would be cool for some people to
be better at seeing spirits than others. (A 1 point
edge?, with a 1pt flaw to be bad at it too?)

I also think it would make sense (although this
would be a rule change for SR3, not just
interpretation), that manifesting should be tiring,
either causing strain or reducing the time you
can spend astrally, and that this strain is
proportional to the number of people who can
see you, which is why Hamlet's father appeared
only to him...

Double-Domed Mike
Message no. 13
From: George H Metz <wolfstar@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Astral Manifestation
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 19:50:09 EDT
On Thu, 18 Sep 1997 15:49:30 -0400 Steve Kenson <TalonMail@***.COM>
writes:
>
>As you can see, I favor the term "materialize" (to make material) over
the
>current official "manifestation" (to make apparent or visible).
Manifestation
>better suits an astral form becoming visible (but still intangible) to
>physical beings, and cuts down on confusion (I hope).

This is a definite Must-Include for the main book. It wasn't until I
actually bothered to sit down and read Grimoire II that I fully
understood that when a spirit manifests, it becomes physically there. I
only gleaned THAT tidbit from the example of summoning an Ally Spirit.
This should clear up a lot of confusion that the new players end up
having over astrally projecting mages and spirits manifesting.

--
Wolfstar - wolfstar@****.com - Home Page -
http://members.aol.com/w0lfstar

"If you took the IQ's of everyone here and converted it to a temperature,
you could lightly toast a marshmallow." - CHS Class of '93 Yearbook
quote.

-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version 3.1
GAT/! d- s+:+ a-- C++(++++)>$ U+ P? L>++ E? W++(--) N- o? K- w(--) O>+ M
!V PS+ PE+ Y+ PGP t+ 5+++ X R++ tv+ b+(+++) DI++ D--- G e h!-- r*
y+/-(--)
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
Message no. 14
From: Mark Steedman <M.J.Steedman@***.RGU.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Astral Manifestation
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 11:39:54 GMT
Steve Kenson writes
> MANIFESTATION
> MATERIALIZATION
>
> As you can see, I favor the term "materialize" (to make material) over the
> current official "manifestation" (to make apparent or visible).
Manifestation
> better suits an astral form becoming visible (but still intangible) to
> physical beings, and cuts down on confusion (I hope).
>
This in the main SR3 book would help massively.
Now add in the comments about what the 'manifested' mage can see and
things would be great, i agree that manifested the mage should be
able to read (but not while not doing so) as then anyone can see him,
and a 'ghostly form of a man standing in the room' will clue nearly
anyone in to exactly what is going on, subtle, well as subtle as a
troll with a pnather cannon comming through the wall with a sign, and
loud hailer saying 'The opposition have your conversation bugged you
know' :)

Mark
Message no. 15
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@****.ORG>
Subject: Astral Manifestation
Date: Sun, 28 Sep 1997 07:53:12 -0600
Rick J. Irvine wrote:
|
| >Now if a PA where able to Manifest on the astral plane (take his
| >whole body with him), that would be different :)
|
| Hooyeah! Bye bye Corp Security, I'm just gonna wiz by ya and manifest in
| your exec's office. :) Hmm, who do we hafta bribe to get the semi-official
| stamp on this one? *Grin*

Okay, I better "game balance" this a little.

Astral Manifestation allows a PA to manifest on the astral plane (as
opposed to astral projection which leaves the mage's body behind). While
on the astral plane the PA is limited to his normal movement rate
(walking/running). He cannot fly through astral space. He cannot pass
through the astral shadows of physical objects. However, these shadows can
affect him.

So, a PA with this ability can switch to the astral and walk around. But,
he can't walk through walls. Also, if he's hit by a car he will take
damage, but he won't affect the car in any way.

Did I miss anything? And, how much would this cost?

-David
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
--
"Creativity is allowing yourself to make mistakes. Art is knowing
which ones to keep."
Message no. 16
From: Shaun Hall <Hard.master@********.ATT.NET>
Subject: Re: Astral Manifestation
Date: Sun, 28 Sep 1997 19:48:53 -0700
----------
: From: David Buehrer
: Rick J. Irvine wrote:
: |
: | >Now if a PA where able to Manifest on the astral plane (take his
: | >whole body with him), that would be different :)
:
:
: Okay, I better "game balance" this a little.
:
: Astral Manifestation allows a PA to manifest on the astral plane (as
: opposed to astral projection which leaves the mage's body behind). While
: on the astral plane the PA is limited to his normal movement rate
: (walking/running). He cannot fly through astral space. He cannot pass
: through the astral shadows of physical objects. However, these shadows
can
: affect him.
:
: So, a PA with this ability can switch to the astral and walk around.
But,
: he can't walk through walls. Also, if he's hit by a car he will take
: damage, but he won't affect the car in any way.
:
: Did I miss anything? And, how much would this cost?
:
If I understand what you are getting at, and the rules correctly
(always a potential problem) it would cost 2 points. What you seem to be
talking about (with the exception of the PA being unable to affect the real
world ) is the PhysAd power of Astral Perception. Using Astral Perception a
PhysAd is able to interact with the astral plane. He cannot move through
physical objects, and can be affected by cars. bullets, etc... He cannot
fly through astral space as his movement is bounded by the 1-to-1
correspondence between his physical body's movement in the real world and
its astral counterpart. In essence this power is the same as what you are
requesting, I think.
As far as projecting a physical body into astral space, I'm not sure
that's possible. Since the astral plane co-exists with the physical world
and physical objects exist in the astral plane (visible as shadows that
astral forms can pass through) the term astral manifestation seems
inaccurate. The astral plane is just yet another dimension of reality. As
physical objects already exist in that dimension your manifestation power
would in effect be removing your body's presence in the first three
dimensions. That is quite a bit more of an effect than just being able to
perceive the 5th dimension, or separating your consciousness along with the
5th dimensional element of your body from its other components.

Shaun
Message no. 17
From: Benjamin <benjamin@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: Astral Manifestation
Date: Sun, 28 Sep 1997 17:08:24 PDT
>Astral Manifestation allows a PA to manifest on the astral plane (as
>opposed to astral projection which leaves the mage's body behind). While
>on the astral plane the PA is limited to his normal movement rate
>(walking/running). He cannot fly through astral space. He cannot pass
>through the astral shadows of physical objects. However, these shadows can
>affect him.
>
>So, a PA with this ability can switch to the astral and walk around. But,
>he can't walk through walls. Also, if he's hit by a car he will take
>damage, but he won't affect the car in any way.
>
>Did I miss anything? And, how much would this cost?
>
>-David

It seems the only advantage this has over invisibility (the spell or
net.pysad.power) is that is impossible to see through. Was this your
intention?
Message no. 18
From: Mike Bobroff <AirWisp@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Astral Manifestation
Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 07:49:40 -0400
In a message dated 97-09-28 09:54:09 EDT, you write:

> Astral Manifestation allows a PA to manifest on the astral plane (as
> opposed to astral projection which leaves the mage's body behind). While
> on the astral plane the PA is limited to his normal movement rate
> (walking/running). He cannot fly through astral space. He cannot pass
> through the astral shadows of physical objects. However, these shadows
can
> affect him.
>
> So, a PA with this ability can switch to the astral and walk around. But,
> he can't walk through walls. Also, if he's hit by a car he will take
> damage, but he won't affect the car in any way.
>
> Did I miss anything? And, how much would this cost?
>
> -David

There is something else, there would be drain associated with something like
this also. There has to be a cost (drain) for being able to manifest
directly into the astral. A note, the drain would be performed every time
the PA went both into the astral and out of the astral.

As for the cost of having it as a physical adept power, I would determine it
to be a 6 point magic cost, seeing as to the 'power' of the power.

As for the movement rate, it would be as per the standard astral rules.
Astral Reaction would still be the physical one from the 'real world.'

And when the PA is in the astral, he will pass through non-living things as
if they were not there, as per standard astral rules.

Mike
Message no. 19
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@****.ORG>
Subject: Re: Astral Manifestation
Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 07:28:28 -0600
Mike Bobroff wrote:
|
| In a message dated 97-09-28 09:54:09 EDT, you write:
|
| > Astral Manifestation allows a PA to manifest on the astral plane (as
| > opposed to astral projection which leaves the mage's body behind). While
| > on the astral plane the PA is limited to his normal movement rate
| > (walking/running). He cannot fly through astral space. He cannot pass
| > through the astral shadows of physical objects. However, these shadows
| can
| > affect him.
| >
| > So, a PA with this ability can switch to the astral and walk around. But,
| > he can't walk through walls. Also, if he's hit by a car he will take
| > damage, but he won't affect the car in any way.
|
| There is something else, there would be drain associated with something like
| this also. There has to be a cost (drain) for being able to manifest
| directly into the astral. A note, the drain would be performed every time
| the PA went both into the astral and out of the astral.

Why? It's a PA ability, not a spell. And astral critters that can
manifest on the physical plane don't suffer from drain.

| As for the cost of having it as a physical adept power, I would determine it
| to be a 6 point magic cost, seeing as to the 'power' of the power.

For the power as you describe it, yes. My way would only be around 2-3
points (I think :) It isn't finished yet.)

| As for the movement rate, it would be as per the standard astral rules.
| Astral Reaction would still be the physical one from the 'real world.'

Again, why?

| And when the PA is in the astral, he will pass through non-living things as
| if they were not there, as per standard astral rules.

Again, why?

I'm trying to create a playable, balanced, interesting power. You
seem to be interested in creating a very imbalanced power with a cost
so high that no one would take it (except for those pesky
munchkins).

-David
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
--
"Creativity is allowing yourself to make mistakes. Art is knowing
which ones to keep."
Message no. 20
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@****.ORG>
Subject: Re: Astral Manifestation
Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 07:41:49 -0600
Benjamin wrote:
|
| >Astral Manifestation allows a PA to manifest on the astral plane (as
| >opposed to astral projection which leaves the mage's body behind). While
| >on the astral plane the PA is limited to his normal movement rate
| >(walking/running). He cannot fly through astral space. He cannot pass
| >through the astral shadows of physical objects. However, these shadows can
| >affect him.
| >
| >So, a PA with this ability can switch to the astral and walk around. But,
| >he can't walk through walls. Also, if he's hit by a car he will take
| >damage, but he won't affect the car in any way.
|
| It seems the only advantage this has over invisibility (the spell or
| net.pysad.power) is that is impossible to see through. Was this your
| intention?

Nope. It's just another trick to add to the PAs rather empty (IMHO)
bag.

Sure, a form of invisiblity would be a side effect. I think an even
greater benefit would be to use it to get the heck out of Dodge when
things aren't going well. Or use it to ambush a target (manifest in
the astral, walk up behind your target, return to the physical, and
attack).

There's allready a precedence in that Ninjas are supposed to be able
to walk through walls and come out of no where when attacking their
target.

-David
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
--
"Creativity is allowing yourself to make mistakes. Art is knowing
which ones to keep."
Message no. 21
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@****.ORG>
Subject: Re: Astral Manifestation
Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 07:45:06 -0600
Shaun Hall wrote:
|
| As far as projecting a physical body into astral space, I'm not sure
| that's possible. Since the astral plane co-exists with the physical world
| and physical objects exist in the astral plane (visible as shadows that
| astral forms can pass through) the term astral manifestation seems
| inaccurate. The astral plane is just yet another dimension of reality. As
| physical objects already exist in that dimension your manifestation power
| would in effect be removing your body's presence in the first three
| dimensions. That is quite a bit more of an effect than just being able to
| perceive the 5th dimension, or separating your consciousness along with the
| 5th dimensional element of your body from its other components.

I think that it is possible because astral critters can allready go
from the astral to the physical. While on the astral plane they have
no physical body. When they manifest they create a physical body.
Perhaps a PA can transform his physical body into magical or astral
energy, or spirit. Where does the physical form of an astral critter
go when it returns to astral space?

-David
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
--
"Creativity is allowing yourself to make mistakes. Art is knowing
which ones to keep."
Message no. 22
From: Mike Bobroff <AirWisp@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Astral Manifestation
Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 13:17:05 -0400
In a message dated 97-09-29 10:59:35 EDT, you write:

> I think that it is possible because astral critters can allready go
> from the astral to the physical. While on the astral plane they have
> no physical body. When they manifest they create a physical body.
> Perhaps a PA can transform his physical body into magical or astral
> energy, or spirit. Where does the physical form of an astral critter
> go when it returns to astral space?

Remember one thing about astral critters, they are manifestations of mana
energy given shape, form, and thought. They do not really have abody, when
they manifest in the real world, they are doing their version of astral
projection, except they do it to the real world.
Message no. 23
From: Mike Bobroff <AirWisp@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Astral Manifestation
Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 14:36:45 -0400
In a message dated 97-09-29 10:59:09 EDT, you write:

> There's allready a precedence in that Ninjas are supposed to be able
> to walk through walls and come out of no where when attacking their
> target.
>

But instead of that being called Astral Mainfestation, why not call it Pass
Through Walls. It would be a 2 point power (give or take) and the PA would
roll their magic attribute with a target number equal to the barrier rating
of the material they are wanting to pass through. In addition, passing
through something takes a full turn of action.
Message no. 24
From: Rick J Irvine <irvine@***.PURDUE.EDU>
Subject: Re: Astral Manifestation
Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 15:12:12 -0500
Airwisp writes:
>
> In a message dated 97-09-29 10:59:09 EDT, you write:
> > There's allready a precedence in that Ninjas are supposed to be able
> > to walk through walls and come out of no where when attacking their
> > target.
> >
>
> But instead of that being called Astral Mainfestation, why not call it Pass
> Through Walls. It would be a 2 point power (give or take) and the PA would
> roll their magic attribute with a target number equal to the barrier rating
> of the material they are wanting to pass through. In addition, passing
> through something takes a full turn of action.

Speaking for all of the Burned Out PhysAds out there, I dunno if I like this
or not. :) Not every PhysAd has a nice, shiney, gleaming 6 Magic Attribute.
Yet no other power relies on us having a full magic stat. How about it instead
be a Willpower roll? Sort of like a mind-over-body test?

Cheers,
Cheetah
Message no. 25
From: Drekhead <drekhead@***.NET>
Subject: Re: Astral Manifestation
Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 16:25:56 +0000
On 29 Sep 97 at 15:12, Rick J Irvine wrote:

> > But instead of that being called Astral Mainfestation, why not call it Pass
> > Through Walls. It would be a 2 point power (give or take) and the PA would
> > roll their magic attribute with a target number equal to the barrier rating
> > of the material they are wanting to pass through. In addition, passing
> > through something takes a full turn of action.
>
> Speaking for all of the Burned Out PhysAds out there, I dunno if I like this
> or not. :) Not every PhysAd has a nice, shiney, gleaming 6 Magic Attribute.
> Yet no other power relies on us having a full magic stat. How about it instead
> be a Willpower roll? Sort of like a mind-over-body test?

That works, Willpower roll, Target Numberºrrier Rating of material
passing through. Numbers of successes needed = thickness of material
in meters. A wood door would be easy. A 3 meter concrete wall, not so
easy.

--

===DREKHEAD==================================drekhead@***.net===
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Alley/6990/index.html
================================================================
Madness takes its toll. Please have exact change.

----------------------------------------------------------------
Message no. 26
From: Sebastion Wires <landsquid@*******.COM>
Subject: Re: "astral manifestation"
Date: Sat, 11 Oct 1997 17:52:42 PDT
>>
>>Shaun Hall wrote:
>>|
>>| As far as projecting a physical body into astral space, I'm not
>>sure
>>| that's possible. Since the astral plane co-exists with the physical
>>world
>>| and physical objects exist in the astral plane (visible as shadows
>>that
>>| astral forms can pass through) the term astral manifestation seems
>>| inaccurate.
>>
>>]I think that it is possible because astral critters can allready go
>>]from the astral to the physical. While on the astral plane they have
>>]no physical body. When they manifest they create a physical body.
>>
>>Yes, but they still have an ASTRAL body- they are dual natured. This
is
>>exactly analagous to an adept astrally percieving- he "manifests"
>>astrally (and uses astral attributes different from physical)
>>but still has apresence in the physical world.
>>
>>]Perhaps a PA can transform his physical body into magical or astral
>>]energy, or spirit. Where does the physical form of an astral critter
>>]go when it returns to astral space?
>>
>>The same place an adepts astral presence goes when it returns to the
>>real world? Ok, the paralell is not exact, as the meat body adept is
>>easy to see from a-space, while a purely astral spirit only creates a
>>"shimmer". However, manifesting is using a power from astral space
>only
>>to affect the physical world (by creating a body). Conjouring
watchers
>>similarly creates an astral effect without requiring access to the
>>astral plane. You could just as well ask "where does a watcher go
when
>>it's time runs out?" The answer, literally, is "nowhere". It just
>>ceases to exist, because the power that brought it into existance is
no
>>longer opperating.
>>
>>
>>Mongoose
>>
>>______________________________________________________
>>Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com


______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
Message no. 27
From: Dust <rogan@******.ORG>
Subject: Astral Manifestation
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 13:32:09 -0800
I have one last amusing story to share,

There is another campaign in which the one and only PC is a night one elf
moon druid. He has navy blue fur and is protector of his forest. He has
recently driven out a Transys Neuronet gas station out of the border of
his forest. Recently he has been patrolling it regularly on the astral
and has found the local wildcat has just had kittens. He manifests in
front of them regularly. When the mother attacked he just stepped aside
easily. (astral quickness) They eventually became used to him.

His question is if he approaches them in his meat body, will they still be
used to him? Whenever he approaches them in his astral form, he changes
it to look like his meat body. Any ideas? I'm leaning toward allowing
them to recognize him but I'm still trying to decide. I mean he has a
scent and different movement if he approaches in his meat body. Anyone
ever get into a situation like this? LOL.

Always curious,

Dust
Message no. 28
From: Erik Jameson <erikj@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Astral Manifestation
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 14:26:45 -0500
At 01:32 PM 2/19/98 -0800, you wrote:
>I have one last amusing story to share,
>
>His question is if he approaches them in his meat body, will they still be
>used to him? Whenever he approaches them in his astral form, he changes
>it to look like his meat body. Any ideas? I'm leaning toward allowing
>them to recognize him but I'm still trying to decide. I mean he has a
>scent and different movement if he approaches in his meat body.
>
>

I would have to say no. Cats, almost without regard for specific species,
are very much dependent on scent. Ever wondered why you can't get a cat to
look at itself in the mirror? What they see has no scent. Sure, your
kitten will be curious the first time, and will occasionally chase things
on the television screen or monitor, but without a scent, it isn't real to
the animal. Some scientists suggest that to a cat, scent is almost like a
Killian (sp?) aura would be to us. It's so integral to the cats way of
life that without scent, the object really has little meaning.

So actually, after being scared by this apparition the first time or two
(probably causing it to move it's nest), the wildcats would probably simply
ignore the astrally visiting magician. After all, without a scent, it
isn't real!

So no, I don't think the wildcats would recognize your magician.
Especially the kittens, who, depending on their age when he started this,
may not even be able to see yet! Kittens in particular rely heavily on
scent; it's the thing that tells them where mom, and therefore food and
warmth, is.

Erik J.

list.member.cat-lover (probably only one of many!)
Message no. 29
From: Brett Borger <bxb121@***.EDU>
Subject: Re: Astral Manifestation
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 14:47:14 EST
> His question is if he approaches them in his meat body, will they
> still be used to him? Whenever he approaches them in his astral
> form, he changes it to look like his meat body. Any ideas? I'm

I'd make them ultra nervous and tense. Smell counts for a lot when
you are an animal, not to mention makeing noise when you walk. :)

That's if I was in a good mood. In a bad mood she'd rip you to
shreds.

-=SwiftOne=-
Message no. 30
From: Damon Harper <nomad74@*******.COM>
Subject: Re: Astral Manifestation
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 03:27:52 PST
>I have one last amusing story to share,
>
>There is another campaign in which the one and only PC is a night one
elf
>moon druid.

If his name is Raistlin, D'rizzt, or any combonation/mutation
thereof, I'm gonna yarf. :)

He has navy blue fur and is protector of his forest. He has
>recently driven out a Transys Neuronet gas station out of the border of
>his forest. Recently he has been patrolling it regularly on the astral
>and has found the local wildcat has just had kittens. He manifests in
>front of them regularly. When the mother attacked he just stepped
aside
>easily. (astral quickness) They eventually became used to him.

Far be it from me to tell you how to run your game(aww, what the
hell, it's never stopped me before:) ... But wouldn't seem more likely
that a wild animal(especially one fostering maternal instincts), if it
couldn't kill him, just pack up and try to move?

>
>His question is if he approaches them in his meat body, will they still
be
>used to him? Whenever he approaches them in his astral form, he
changes
>it to look like his meat body. Any ideas?

Personally, I'd say 'no'. Because is presence will be *different*.
The leaves will crunch under his feet, he will breath, and like you say,
have a scent(and more importantly, the scent of Man- no cologne jokes).

I'm leaning toward allowing
>them to recognize him but I'm still trying to decide. I mean he has >a
scent and different movement if he approaches in his meat body. >Anyone
ever get into a situation like this? LOL.

No, can't say that I have. I've instilled in my mage PCs the fear of
God to wander too far from their meatbods for too long- and since they
aren't that magical literate, I will keep them in ignorance until it
dawns on them to pick up the damn BBB and/or Grimiore and do some
fraggin reading to expand their magic-using PC. Of course, they are
just now coming around to finding the joy of using magic-users, so maybe
one day they'll feel more amorious.
Good luck with your decision.

-Vagabond <nomad74@*******.com> <ICQ 4297972>
___________________________________________________________
"What, drawn, and talk of peace! I
hate the word
As I hate hell, all Montagues, and thee..."
-Shakespeare, Romeo & Juliet(Act I, scene I)


______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
Message no. 31
From: Brett Borger <bxb121@***.EDU>
Subject: Re: Astral Manifestation
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 15:05:12 EST
> No, can't say that I have. I've instilled in my mage PCs the fear
> of
> God to wander too far from their meatbods for too long- and since

I give them the fear of the GM rather than God. I follow up more
immediately. <EGMG>

-=SwiftOne=-
I have a feeling I'm going to pay for this comment...eventually

Further Reading

If you enjoyed reading about Astral Manifestation, you may also be interested in:

Disclaimer

These messages were posted a long time ago on a mailing list far, far away. The copyright to their contents probably lies with the original authors of the individual messages, but since they were published in an electronic forum that anyone could subscribe to, and the logs were available to subscribers and most likely non-subscribers as well, it's felt that re-publishing them here is a kind of public service.

Thwap!