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Message no. 1
From: Justin Pinnow <jpinnow@***.IM.MED.UMICH.EDU>
Subject: Re: Astral perception
Date: Mon, 10 Jul 1995 10:44:03 -0400
FASA had stated that you can astrally perceive through glass and similar
objects because it is see-thru on the physical plane. However, since then, it
seems that my viewers of this list think that it should be treated like any
other physical object as not see-thru....

Therefore, as has been explained, when it comes to the astral barrier, you
would NOT be able to see into the apartment, because the glass is not see-thru
on the astral. This only works if you follow the "house rules" developed on
the list. If you follow FASA's ruling, you CAN see into the apartment. Take
your pick.


Justin :)

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Message no. 2
From: Jani Fikouras <feanor@**********.UNI-BREMEN.DE>
Subject: Re: Astral perception
Date: Mon, 10 Jul 1995 17:03:41 +0200
> FASA had stated that you can astrally perceive through glass and similar
> objects because it is see-thru on the physical plane. However, since then, it
> seems that my viewers of this list think that it should be treated like any
> other physical object as not see-thru....

I believe that glass should be transparent in the astral, and I dont think
that I am the only one. Apart from being the official(TM)(c)(insert acronym)
rule it also makes sense, well at least it does a WYTIWYG sort of sense :)

> Therefore, as has been explained, when it comes to the astral barrier, you
> would NOT be able to see into the apartment, because the glass is not see-thru
> on the astral. This only works if you follow the "house rules" developed
on
> the list. If you follow FASA's ruling, you CAN see into the apartment. Take
> your pick.

You canot see into the apartment because the barrier has a magical presense.
Magical objects/magically active organisms - in short everything magical
is visible in the astral.

--
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Moderator of alt.c00ld00z (coolness in general)
Message no. 3
From: "S.F. Eley" <gt6877c@*****.GATECH.EDU>
Subject: Re: Astral perception
Date: Mon, 10 Jul 1995 15:08:23 -0400
> FASA had stated that you can astrally perceive through glass and similar
> objects because it is see-thru on the physical plane. However, since then, it
> seems that my viewers of this list think that it should be treated like any
> other physical object as not see-thru....
>
> Therefore, as has been explained, when it comes to the astral barrier, you
> would NOT be able to see into the apartment, because the glass is not see-thru
> on the astral. This only works if you follow the "house rules" developed
on
> the list. If you follow FASA's ruling, you CAN see into the apartment. Take
> your pick.

No. You're answering a different problem. The astral ward blocks
perception. Windows have nothing to do with it. If the ward were created
in an empty field, you wouldn't be able to astrally perceive into it. The
presence of a physical window does not mean you can perceive through an
astral ward. What the window does when there is no astral ward is not
currently in dispute.


Blessings,

_TNX._

--
Stephen F. Eley (-) gt6877c@*****.gatech.edu )-( Student Pagan Community
http://wc62.residence.gatech.edu| "Suppose Euphoria is a state with
My opinions are my opinions. | 'n' cities..."
Please don't blame anyone else. | - Proof in CS 3158
Message no. 4
From: Dust <rogan@******.ORG>
Subject: Astral Perception
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 00:29:10 -0800
Hey all,

The first time I saw an archetype of physical adept with astral perception
(the ghost hunter in Awakenings) I thought it was a waste of two magic
points. After a couple of hours it dawned upon me on how damn useful this
was. I think a lot of full magician characters never quite realize how
darn useful astral perception is. But with a physical adept the power is
priceless.

I'm GMing a campaign with two physical adepts. One is a Koborokuru
(Japanese dwarf) and the other is a Chinese elf. Taki the dwarf and
Barney the elf, have recently formed an initiate group between the two of
them. Taki has been saving a magic point since character creation, to put
towards distance strike when he'd first initiate. Barney, a former circus
performer turned semi-runner hadn't a clue what to get with his newfound
magic point.

They were both being trained by Master Gavin, a Korean high
self-initiated Tae Kwon Do master. After teaching Taki how to "hit
objects" by using the power of his will (distance strike) he began to talk
to Barney about the 'higher mysteries' and astral space. He taught Barney
different meditation techniques for a month.

Barney kept the magic point saved up (he would purchase astral perception
upon his next initiation) but I decided to be a nice GM for once and
allowed him empathic sense which is a limited form of astral awareness
till then. He found it quite useful to decipher emotions from mundanes.

Recently he has just become Grade 2. Now enjoying the full benefits of
astral perception he gets a kick out of seeing what magicians' idealized
versions of themselves are, locations of cyberware {by seeing the 'dead
spots' on bodies}, more auras, and what sorts of spirits may be following
him and Taki. All in all the campaign is starting to go beyond the normal
martial arts-fest and is becoming quite "perceptive." Barney is able to
tackle spirits and other astral nasties a wee bit better now and is
starting to learn sorcery.

Just throwing in my two bits 'bout why physical adepts should consider
getting astral perception. Tell me what you other folks think 'bout this.
I'm also wondering what other GMs do when physical adept characters
inititate and wait to recieve another magic point for powers that cost two
points. Do any of you do what I do and sort of the give the power
halfway, like I did with empathic sense and astral perception. BTW,
empathic sense is an official power in Awakenings.

Always curious,

Dust
Message no. 5
From: "Steven A. Tinner" <bluewizard@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: Astral Perception
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 00:34:38 -0500
>The first time I saw an archetype of physical adept with astral perception
>(the ghost hunter in Awakenings) I thought it was a waste of two magic
>points. After a couple of hours it dawned upon me on how damn useful this
>was. I think a lot of full magician characters never quite realize how
>darn useful astral perception is. But with a physical adept the power is
>priceless.

I still think that it's a waste of two magic points.
Not that it's not worth it, but there's a cheaper way to get it!
If I'm going to make a physad and I want AP, then I'm going to use the SR
Companion Point System, and spend a few measly build points to take AP as a
magical edge!

I'm currently playing a human physad that I built under the new system, and
the extra two points of physad powers have certainly come in handy!

Steven A. Tinner
bluewizard@*****.com
http://www.ncweb.com/users/bluewizard
"If you die first, we're splitting up your gear."
Message no. 6
From: Dust <rogan@******.ORG>
Subject: Re: Astral Perception
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 02:41:36 -0800
On Thu, 19 Feb 1998, Steven A. Tinner wrote:

> I still think that it's a waste of two magic points.
> Not that it's not worth it, but there's a cheaper way to get it!
> If I'm going to make a physad and I want AP, then I'm going to use the SR
> Companion Point System, and spend a few measly build points to take AP as a
> magical edge!
>
> I'm currently playing a human physad that I built under the new system, and
> the extra two points of physad powers have certainly come in handy!
>

I don't allow anyone in my campaigns to get edges that are physical adept
powers. I think it doesn't make sense and that the edge is much too good
for a coupla measly building points. I think the cost for astral
perception is steep but there's a reason. Physical adepts aren't meant to
have it so it's costly but like I've said before I definitely think it's
worth it.

Lates,

Dust
Message no. 7
From: Mon goose <landsquid@*******.COM>
Subject: Re: Astral Perception
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 01:11:47 PST
> I think a lot of full magician characters never quite realize how
>darn useful astral perception is. But with a physical adept the >power
is priceless.
>

No kidding. An extra pair of magic eyes, in a guy who can kick ass
without cyber, wepaons, or foci or fetishes, or is an expert infaltrator
/ tracker. How could THAT be useful? ;>
It often seems, the more limite a characters magic ability,themore
focused and inovative the useof that ability.
The 2 point companion edge is obviously a better choice, if allowed.

>Recently he has just become Grade 2. Now enjoying the full benefits of
astral perception he gets a kick out of seeing what magicians' idealized
versions of themselves are, locations of cyberware {by seeing the 'dead
spots' on bodies}, more auras, and what sorts of spirits may be
following him and Taki. All in all the campaign is starting to go
beyond the normal martial arts-fest and is becoming >quite "perceptive."

Cool, but don't go overboard. Locations of cyber isnotactually
apparentinthe aura, usually- you can't see inside the body. Cyberlimbs,
IMO, show pretty well- TN 4 or so, same as on close visual inspection.
The other stuff must be infered from state of health, and thats tough to
do if the character doen't actually know abit about cyber (biotech or
cybertech skill).

Also, you'd be amazed how dependant they might become. An "astal
ambush" or deception by a clever oponent with masking, could really
through them for a loop. Our mage still cringes whenever anybody says
the words "astral dragon" or "Vampiric jhonson".

Sorecey seemsless useful to physads, as theycan use thier generally
superior Unarmed / armed ability for astral combat. Of course, they
might get really into something like forensic magic.

>I'm also wondering what other GMs do when physical adept characters
>inititate and wait to recieve another magic point for powers that cost
two points. Do any of you do what I do and sort of the give the power
halfway, like I did with empathic sense and astral perception. BTW,
empathic sense is an official power in Awakenings.
>

Some sort of "stepping stone" power is nice, and not out of line, IMO.
I think empathic sense grants info AsPer doesn't, but what the hey.
Another way, for powers with no "halfway" would be to let the character
use the power very rarely, to further the plot, maybe at a karma cost.
That works well for something like the enhanced centering abilities.
For AsPer, there is actually a character type that must paykarmato use
AsPer (thier only abilty) inthe germany sorcebook, IIRC. Its also nice
as a type of "guidance from your totem / path" if the GM feels the
player might work at buying the power after trying it a few times.

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Message no. 8
From: William Gallas <wgallas@*****.FR>
Subject: Re: Astral Perception
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 10:19:10 +0100
>Just throwing in my two bits 'bout why physical adepts should consider
>getting astral perception. Tell me what you other folks think 'bout this.
>I'm also wondering what other GMs do when physical adept characters
>inititate and wait to recieve another magic point for powers that cost two
>points. Do any of you do what I do and sort of the give the power
>halfway, like I did with empathic sense and astral perception. BTW,
>empathic sense is an official power in Awakenings.

If you can give a limited version of the power, that's quite fine but
that's not always easily done (half reflex dice?).

To handle it, I allow physads to redistribute their powers each time their
magic attribute changes (via initiation or deadly wound). This gives them
the opportunity to choose powers adapted to the character (which change
with time) and they don't loose points to save them for later.

I think I'll create a new power : Alteration. By using this, the physad
could be able to distribute differently his powers. I haven't stated on
game mechanics and cost but I'll think about it.


Cobra.

E-mail adress : wgallas@*****.fr
Quote : "Never trust an elf"
Message no. 9
From: Mon goose <landsquid@*******.COM>
Subject: Re: Astral Perception
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 01:43:49 PST
>I think I'll create a new power : Alteration. By using this, the physad
could be able to distribute differently his powers. I haven't stated on
game mechanics and cost but I'll think about it.
>
>
> Cobra.
>
> E-mail adress : wgallas@*****.fr
> Quote : "Never trust an elf"
>

I lobbied hard with FASA to change Physads radically for SR3, preferably
having powers be purchased directly with karma / force, with magic
limiting the number or "quality" of thier powers.

A nice net enhancemet Iv'e seen has PA's buyng all powers with karma,
but not being able to use them all. [Exact cost escapes me- magic cost
times 4 or 5 sounds reasonable, but fractions are hard to eliminate,
especailly allowing for geas.]
Instead of fixed powers, they and meditate to fill up thier "powerslots"
(maybe kinda like Otaku loading a frame, mechanics wise?). Very cool,
it gives PA's a more magical flavor, and the versatilty of a spell
caster, but with a whole different twist. I'd expectthem not to have
TOO many different powers, as raising magic, attributes, and skills
would still be very important, and paying karma for more powers you
don't use would be unwise.

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Message no. 10
From: Damon Harper <nomad74@*******.COM>
Subject: Re: Astral Perception
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 03:40:58 PST
>Hey all,
>
>The first time I saw an archetype of physical adept with astral
perception
>(the ghost hunter in Awakenings) I thought it was a waste of two magic
>points. After a couple of hours it dawned upon me on how damn useful
this
>was. I think a lot of full magician characters never quite realize how
>darn useful astral perception is. But with a physical adept the power
is
>priceless.

I wouldn't say 'priceless', but it does depend on what you want your
physad to do. If you have a physad with astral perception, go ahead and
get the sorcery skill too. "Can't cast spells" you say? You don't need
to, just use the sorcery skill to kick spirit-butt.
I haven't actually read the archetypes in awakenings, but I'm sure
this ghost hunter has to have something similar. :) Maybe I'll go
check it out...

-Vagabond <nomad74@*******.com><ICQ 4297972>
___________________________________________________________
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2: of, characteristic of, or leading the life of a vagrant
or tramp 3: leading an unsettled or irresponsible life

²vagabond n: one leading a vagabond life; esp : tramp
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Message no. 11
From: William Gallas <wgallas@*****.FR>
Subject: Re: Astral Perception
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 13:05:53 +0100
>>The first time I saw an archetype of physical adept with astral
>perception
>>(the ghost hunter in Awakenings) I thought it was a waste of two magic
>>points. After a couple of hours it dawned upon me on how damn useful
>this
>>was. I think a lot of full magician characters never quite realize how
>>darn useful astral perception is. But with a physical adept the power
>is
>>priceless.
>
> I wouldn't say 'priceless', but it does depend on what you want your
>physad to do. If you have a physad with astral perception, go ahead and
>get the sorcery skill too. "Can't cast spells" you say? You don't need
>to, just use the sorcery skill to kick spirit-butt.
> I haven't actually read the archetypes in awakenings, but I'm sure
>this ghost hunter has to have something similar. :) Maybe I'll go
>check it out...

I never see the usefulness of sorcery to a physad. He can use it to fight
against spirit and/or astral targets but he can also do it with his unarmed
combat skill (even armed if he's got a weapon focus) at which he is a lot
more skilled...


Cobra.

E-mail adress : wgallas@*****.fr
Quote : "Never trust an elf"
Message no. 12
From: Mike Bobroff <AirWisp@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Astral Perception
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 08:12:06 EST
In a message dated 98-02-19 00:29:00 EST, you write:

> Just throwing in my two bits 'bout why physical adepts should consider
> getting astral perception. Tell me what you other folks think 'bout this.

Depends on which direction a PAD wants to go ... seeing as a PAD does not need
Astral Perception to gain centering skills ...

> I'm also wondering what other GMs do when physical adept characters
> inititate and wait to recieve another magic point for powers that cost two
> points.

Yes, I remember doing that myself, but I was trying to save up for 6 Magic
Points ...

> Do any of you do what I do and sort of the give the power
> halfway, like I did with empathic sense and astral perception. BTW,
> empathic sense is an official power in Awakenings.

No one in the game has ever approached me about this in the game ...

Mike
Message no. 13
From: "Leszek Karlik, aka Mike" <trrkt@*****.ONET.PL>
Subject: Re: Astral Perception
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 17:14:38 +0000
On 19 Feb 98, Steven A. Tinner disseminated foul capitalist
propaganda by writing:

[...]
> I still think that it's a waste of two magic points.
> Not that it's not worth it, but there's a cheaper way to get it! If
> I'm going to make a physad and I want AP, then I'm going to use the
> SR Companion Point System, and spend a few measly build points to
> take AP as a magical edge!

</me runs in circles and screams "Munchkin, Munchkin"!!>

<sheepish grin>
Sorry.

Seriously, I agree with Tinner. And there's more - one can save more
Magic Points by taking, say, Direction Sense and Pain Resistance as
edges, istead of powers. (Oh, and my PhysShaman also has the AP as an
edge. <grin>)


Leszek Karlik, aka Mike - trrkt@*****.onet.pl; http://www.wlkp.top.pl/~bear/mike;
Amber fan and Star Wars junkie; UIN 6947998; WTF TKD; FIAWOL; YMMV; IMAO; SNAFU; TANJ
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[The black road is] as persistent as an insurance salesman. - Corwin
Message no. 14
From: Brett Borger <bxb121@***.EDU>
Subject: Re: Astral Perception
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 12:01:31 +0000
> > I still think that it's a waste of two magic points.
> > Not that it's not worth it, but there's a cheaper way to get it! If
> > I'm going to make a physad and I want AP, then I'm going to use the
> > SR Companion Point System, and spend a few measly build points to
> > take AP as a magical edge!

this was my very first complaint about the Magical Edges. If you use
the KensonIntended method though, this is not a problem.

> Seriously, I agree with Tinner. And there's more - one can save more
> Magic Points by taking, say, Direction Sense and Pain Resistance as
> edges, istead of powers. (Oh, and my PhysShaman also has the AP as an
> edge. <grin>)

I also disallowed more than 3 point of Pain Resistance (which is an
unbalanced edge anyway). Direction Sense I have no problem with.

-=SwiftOne=-
Brett Borger
SwiftOne@***.edu
AAP Techie
Message no. 15
From: Lehlan Decker <decker@****.FSU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Astral Perception
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 12:43:47 -0500
On Thu, Feb 19, 1998 at 12:29:10AM -0800, Dust wrote:
> Hey all,
>
<SNIP Story of PA's and powers>
> Just throwing in my two bits 'bout why physical adepts should consider
> getting astral perception. Tell me what you other folks think 'bout this.
> I'm also wondering what other GMs do when physical adept characters
> inititate and wait to recieve another magic point for powers that cost two
> points. Do any of you do what I do and sort of the give the power
> halfway, like I did with empathic sense and astral perception. BTW,
> empathic sense is an official power in Awakenings.
>
> Always curious,
>
> Dust
I love Astral Perception. That and killing hands/or a weapon focus make
PA's a wonderful thing to have vs spirits and such.
(Leaving the mage free to fry other things). Usually a couple dice
in stealth or athletics is always nice. And I for one love Traceless
Walk. Combine that with adhesion from one of the net supplements, and
some good skills, and you have a wonderful theif. Pain tolerance
is also nice. Usually I come up with a framework for my PA (archer,
thief, martial arts, ghost hunter, whatever), and base his powers
and later his initiation on it.
I've also come to love the idea that geasa can reduce the cost of
powers.
As far as giving someone an "intermediate power", I've never used
it, but I can't fault your logic.


--
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Lehlan Decker 644-4534 Systems Development
decker@****.fsu.edu http://www.scri.fsu.edu/~decker
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Some people are alive, only because its illegal to kill them.
Message no. 16
From: Dust <rogan@******.ORG>
Subject: Re: Astral Perception
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 12:55:44 -0800
On Thu, 19 Feb 1998, Mon goose wrote:

> Sorecey seemsless useful to physads, as theycan use thier generally
> superior Unarmed / armed ability for astral combat. Of course, they
> might get really into something like forensic magic.
>

I disagree. Sorcery grants magic pool for astral combat. When physads
with sorcery attack astral beings with their unarmed combat they still get
access to their magic pool.

That's my two bits and that's how I run it in my campaign.

Lates,

Dust
Message no. 17
From: Mon goose <landsquid@*******.COM>
Subject: Re: Astral Perception
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 11:19:05 PST
>On Thu, 19 Feb 1998, Mon goose wrote:
>
>> Sorecey seems less useful to physads, as they can use thier generally
superior Unarmed / armed ability for astral combat. Of course, they
might get really into something like forensic magic.
>>
>
>I disagree. Sorcery grants magic pool for astral combat. When physads
with sorcery attack astral beings with their unarmed combat they still
get access to their magic pool.
>

NOOOOOOHHHH- ACK, I went through a huge debate about this on usenet
abouit two months back. On YOUR side.
Well, not quite exactly. AFAIK, Magic pool is NEVER used for astral
combat. Astral combat pool can be, and I made the point that percieving
mage types, and all dual natures, should have acsess to astral combat
pool. And you don't need sorcery to have or use an astral combat pool.
Turns out I was wrong. I even asked Mike M. They use normal combat
pool for a-combat, regardless of what skill they use, because they are
still present on the physical plane, and thier bodies must actually move
in astral combat.

>That's my two bits and that's how I run it in my campaign.
>
>Lates,
>
>Dust
>

You use magic pool for astral combat? I assume you have no seperate
astral combat pool? Thats kinda neat, cause it cuts down on the "astral
combat the incomings, then spell on my action" tactics that basically
allow astral mages to use two BIG pools.
I won't fault you interpretation of astral combat (I like it), but FASA
rules run as I said.

Mongoose / Technological progress is like an ax in the hands
of a psychotic - Einstein

get sucked into -The Vortex- Chicago's shadowland BBS
http://www.concentric.net/~evamarie/srmain.htm


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