Back to the main page

Mailing List Logs for ShadowRN

Message no. 1
From: Brett Borger <bxb121@***.EDU>
Subject: Astral Projecting and Foci
Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 19:29:02 -0500
Okay, one of my runners raised an interesting question.

From the traffic I've seen here, we all pretty much agree that the rules
don't say it explicitly either way, but they do offer lots of implication,
that you can ground through a projecting mage.

My runner asked about the FOCI on a projecting mage. Since they have an
astral form that separates from their physical form, can you ground through
them?

I found it an interesting question. I said it would be the same as it would
be for the mage....if the GM allows you to zap through the mage, then yes.
If not, then No.

But I hadn't thought of it before...
-=SwiftOne=-
Message no. 2
From: Guardian <s777317@*******.GU.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: Astral Projecting and Foci
Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 07:34:32 +1000
> >From the traffic I've seen here, we all pretty much agree that the rules
> don't say it explicitly either way, but they do offer lots of implication,
> that you can ground through a projecting mage.
>
> My runner asked about the FOCI on a projecting mage. Since they have an
> astral form that separates from their physical form, can you ground through
> them?

I'm fairly sure it states somewhere that yes, you CAN ground thru an
active focus being carried by an astrally projecting mage. Could be
wrong, tho...

I seem to recall the same statement saying that the grounding occurs
where the physical location of the focus is, too, not where the astral
mage currently is.

Guardian
Message no. 3
From: Gavin Lewis <lewis@**.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: Astral Projecting and Foci
Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 16:50:58 +0800
>My runner asked about the FOCI on a projecting mage. Since they have an
>astral form that separates from their physical form, can you ground through
>them?

Somewhere (I am not sure where .... Grimoire?), I have read that you can
ground thru active foci. We have always played that rule, but now that you
have brought it up, I will have to search for the actual rule!

Gav
Message no. 4
From: Tim P Cooper <z-i-m@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Astral Projecting and Foci
Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 03:55:17 EST
On Tue, 18 Feb 1997 16:50:58 +0800 Gavin Lewis <lewis@**.EDU.AU> writes:
>>My runner asked about the FOCI on a projecting mage. Since they have
an
>>astral form that separates from their physical form, can you ground
through
>>them?
>
>Somewhere (I am not sure where .... Grimoire?), I have read that you can
>ground thru active foci. We have always played that rule, but now that
you
>have brought it up, I will have to search for the actual rule!
>
>Gav
>

Check SRII at the tail end of the magic section proper (right before the
spell listings), the last thing it mentions is about astral space and
grounding.
[I'd give page numbers, but I don't have the book on hand and my memory
isn't _that_ good.]

~Tim
Message no. 5
From: "M. Gotthard" <s457033@*******.GU.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: Astral Projecting and Foci
Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 08:23:51 +1000
> > My runner asked about the FOCI on a projecting mage. Since they have an
> > astral form that separates from their physical form, can you ground through
> > them?
>
> I'm fairly sure it states somewhere that yes, you CAN ground thru an
> active focus being carried by an astrally projecting mage. Could be
> wrong, tho...
>

Probably can... at least you could in my games. AFAIK you can ground
through the mage's astral form, whether or not he's carrying a focus....
it needs to be an area effect damaging maniplutation through.

I guess that in most cases the focus would be a 'softer' target than the
mage himself.

> I seem to recall the same statement saying that the grounding occurs
> where the physical location of the focus is, too, not where the astral
> mage currently is.
>

Which is why it's got to be an area effect spell to do any damage... if
it's not you just fry the focus, and not the support team.

Bleach
Message no. 6
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Astral Projecting and Foci
Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 10:33:40 +0000
|Probably can... at least you could in my games. AFAIK you can ground
|through the mage's astral form, whether or not he's carrying a focus....
|it needs to be an area effect damaging maniplutation through.

Ahem. Area effect damaging manipulation?

Nope. Not possible. Damaging manipulations are physical from the moment of
casting. Won't work. Sorry.

You're thinking of Area Effect Damaging *PHYSICAL* Combat Spells....

|I guess that in most cases the focus would be a 'softer' target than the
|mage himself.

Yep. Mages have pools to defend themselves. Foci only have their force
rating.....

|
|> I seem to recall the same statement saying that the grounding occurs
|> where the physical location of the focus is, too, not where the astral
|> mage currently is.

Of course. The physical location of the focus is where the bridge between
astral and physical planes can be breached.....

|Which is why it's got to be an area effect spell to do any damage... if
|it's not you just fry the focus, and not the support team.

Yup.
--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Message no. 7
From: Adam Treloar <s777317@*******.GU.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: Astral Projecting and Foci
Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 13:15:35 -0500
At 10:33 AM 19/02/97 +0000, you wrote:
>|Probably can... at least you could in my games. AFAIK you can ground
>|through the mage's astral form, whether or not he's carrying a focus....
>|it needs to be an area effect damaging maniplutation through.
>
>Ahem. Area effect damaging manipulation?
>
>Nope. Not possible. Damaging manipulations are physical from the moment of
>casting. Won't work. Sorry.

Actually, it IS possible, just make sure there's no walls, people, floors,
or anything else for the physical part of the spell to affect.

>You're thinking of Area Effect Damaging *PHYSICAL* Combat Spells....

These spells wouldn't work so well - The idea is to hurt others in the
vicinity. Since you can rarely see the astrally projecting mage's meat body
and other nearby when he's projecting, it kinda defeats the purpose (combat
spells only damage auras you can see)

Guardian
Message no. 8
From: The Digital Mage <mn3rge@****.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Astral Projecting and Foci
Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 13:30:32 +0000
On Wed, 19 Feb 1997, Spike wrote:

> |> I seem to recall the same statement saying that the grounding occurs
> |> where the physical location of the focus is, too, not where the astral
> |> mage currently is.
>
> Of course. The physical location of the focus is where the bridge between
> astral and physical planes can be breached.....

Just in case this isn't recognised, to fry anyone within the area of
effect, they still must be within line of sight for the spell to work.
I.e. a mage grounding a spell through an astrally projecting mage will not
catch his buddies who are standing around his body half way across town.
I think this is 'official'.

> |Which is why it's got to be an area effect spell to do any damage... if
> |it's not you just fry the focus, and not the support team.
>
> Yup.
However if it isn't an area effect it _will_ take out the person in
possession of the foci (per SRII), this can be explained perhaps by teh
aura bleeding over allowing the spell to 'jump' from foci to person.

The Digital Mage aka Grant Erswell - mn3rge@****.ac.uk
"Sadder still to watch it die, than never to have known it"
-Rush, Losing It
Message no. 9
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Astral Projecting and Foci
Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 13:53:54 +0000
|>Ahem. Area effect damaging manipulation?
|>
|>Nope. Not possible. Damaging manipulations are physical from the moment of
|>casting. Won't work. Sorry.
|
|Actually, it IS possible, just make sure there's no walls, people, floors,
|or anything else for the physical part of the spell to affect.

Then how does the Damaging Manipulation affect the physical plane?
It can't. It becomes physical THE MOMENT it is cast. And there is no bridge
to the physical plane for it to cross.

With a combat spell, it travels to the target ASTRALLY and grounds
through.... Something. Aura (if the mage is physical), Spell Lock or
Projecting mage or focus (If astral)

|>You're thinking of Area Effect Damaging *PHYSICAL* Combat Spells....
|
|These spells wouldn't work so well - The idea is to hurt others in the
|vicinity. Since you can rarely see the astrally projecting mage's meat body
|and other nearby when he's projecting, it kinda defeats the purpose (combat
|spells only damage auras you can see)

Elemental effects dear boy....

Elemental effects.
--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Message no. 10
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Astral Projecting and Foci
Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 14:59:39 +0000
|
|On Wed, 19 Feb 1997, Spike wrote:
|
|> |> I seem to recall the same statement saying that the grounding occurs
|> |> where the physical location of the focus is, too, not where the astral
|> |> mage currently is.
|>
|> Of course. The physical location of the focus is where the bridge between
|> astral and physical planes can be breached.....
|
|Just in case this isn't recognised, to fry anyone within the area of
|effect, they still must be within line of sight for the spell to work.
|I.e. a mage grounding a spell through an astrally projecting mage will not
|catch his buddies who are standing around his body half way across town.
|I think this is 'official'.

They might take a bit of damage from the elemental effect of FIREBALL or
something....
--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Message no. 11
From: Sascha Pabst <Sascha.Pabst@**********.UNI-OLDENBURG.DE>
Subject: Re: Astral Projecting and Foci
Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 18:12:54 +0000
On 20 Feb 97 at 13:15, Adam Treloar wrote:
[snip grounding through projecting magician]
> >Ahem. Area effect damaging manipulation?
> >
> >Nope. Not possible. Damaging manipulations are physical from the moment of
> >casting. Won't work. Sorry.
>
> Actually, it IS possible, just make sure there's no walls, people, floors,
> or anything else for the physical part of the spell to affect.
Wrong. See SRII, p. 139.

> >You're thinking of Area Effect Damaging *PHYSICAL* Combat Spells....
>
> These spells wouldn't work so well - The idea is to hurt others in the
> vicinity. Since you can rarely see the astrally projecting mage's meat body
> and other nearby when he's projecting, it kinda defeats the purpose (combat
> spells only damage auras you can see)
Unfortunately, they are the only ones to work and do damage. Go back,
learn the magic rules. At least those from the Black Book. Thanx.

Sascha
--
+---___---------+----------------------------------------+--------------------+
| / / _______ | Jhary-a-Conel aka Sascha Pabst |The one who does not|
| / /_/ ____/ |Sascha.Pabst@**********.Uni-Oldenburg.de| learn from history |
| \___ __/ | | is bound to live |
|==== \_/ ======| *Wearing hats is just a way of life* | through it again. |
|LOGOUT FASCISM!| - Me | G. Santayana |
+------------- http://www.informatik.uni-oldenburg.de/~jhary -----------------+
Message no. 12
From: L Canthros <lobo1@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Astral Projecting and Foci
Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 18:45:17 EST
On Thu, 20 Feb 1997 13:15:35 -0500 Adam Treloar
<s777317@*******.GU.EDU.AU> writes:
>At 10:33 AM 19/02/97 +0000, you wrote:
>>|Probably can... at least you could in my games. AFAIK you can
>ground
>>|through the mage's astral form, whether or not he's carrying a
>focus....
>>|it needs to be an area effect damaging maniplutation through.
>>
>>Ahem. Area effect damaging manipulation?
>>
>>Nope. Not possible. Damaging manipulations are physical from the
>moment of
>>casting. Won't work. Sorry.
>
>Actually, it IS possible, just make sure there's no walls, people,
>floors,
>or anything else for the physical part of the spell to affect.

No...you cannot, BTB, ground a damaging manipulation, neither can you
cast one in Astral Space (has to do with the way they work, read the
description in SR2 main rules)


>
>>You're thinking of Area Effect Damaging *PHYSICAL* Combat Spells....
>
>These spells wouldn't work so well - The idea is to hurt others in the
>vicinity. Since you can rarely see the astrally projecting mage's
>meat body
>and other nearby when he's projecting, it kinda defeats the purpose
>(combat
>spells only damage auras you can see)

I hold that you can't ground through a projecting mage, but that's just
MO, and I have no way of backing it up.


--
-Canthros
If any man wishes peace, canthros1@***.com
let him prepare for war. lobo1@****.com
--Roman proverb
http://members.aol.com/canthros1/
Message no. 13
From: Guardian <s777317@*******.GU.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: Astral Projecting and Foci
Date: Mon, 24 Feb 1997 08:56:42 +1000
> |> |> I seem to recall the same statement saying that the grounding occurs
> |> |> where the physical location of the focus is, too, not where the astral
> |> |> mage currently is.
> |>
> |> Of course. The physical location of the focus is where the bridge between
> |> astral and physical planes can be breached.....
> |
> |Just in case this isn't recognised, to fry anyone within the area of
> |effect, they still must be within line of sight for the spell to work.
> |I.e. a mage grounding a spell through an astrally projecting mage will not
> |catch his buddies who are standing around his body half way across town.
> |I think this is 'official'.
>
> They might take a bit of damage from the elemental effect of FIREBALL or
> something....

Not from fireball. It's a combat spell - you have to be able to see the
aura to affect it. Same goes for the other combat spells. That's why
damaging manipulation was suggested.

Guardian

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"If we come back from heaven, do we get arrested for illegal immigration?"
Adam Treloar aka Guardian
s777317@*****.student.gu.edu.au http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1900/
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Message no. 14
From: Ashelock <woneal@*******.NET>
Subject: Re: Astral Projecting and Foci
Date: Mon, 3 Mar 1997 08:17:27 -0005
On 20 Feb 97 at 18:45, L Canthros wrote:

> On Thu, 20 Feb 1997 13:15:35 -0500 Adam Treloar
> <s777317@*******.GU.EDU.AU> writes:
> >At 10:33 AM 19/02/97 +0000, you wrote:
> >>|Probably can... at least you could in my games. AFAIK you can
> >ground
> >>|through the mage's astral form, whether or not he's carrying a
> >focus....
> >>|it needs to be an area effect damaging maniplutation through.
> >>
> >>Ahem. Area effect damaging manipulation?
> >>
> >>Nope. Not possible. Damaging manipulations are physical from the
> >moment of
> >>casting. Won't work. Sorry.
> >
> >Actually, it IS possible, just make sure there's no walls, people,
> >floors,
> >or anything else for the physical part of the spell to affect.
>
> No...you cannot, BTB, ground a damaging manipulation, neither can you
> cast one in Astral Space (has to do with the way they work, read the
> description in SR2 main rules)
>
>
> >
> >>You're thinking of Area Effect Damaging *PHYSICAL* Combat Spells....
> >
> >These spells wouldn't work so well - The idea is to hurt others in the
> >vicinity. Since you can rarely see the astrally projecting mage's meat
> >body and other nearby when he's projecting, it kinda defeats the purpose
> >(combat spells only damage auras you can see)
>
> I hold that you can't ground through a projecting mage, but that's just
> MO, and I have no way of backing it up.
>
I'm begining to agree with you Canthros. Despite the fact that several
examples are given in the rule books of an astrally projecting mage
getting hit with an area affect spell, which grounds through the body (via
the astral-physical connection as per the law of repercussion, SRII p142).
This can't be done with combat spells as has been pointed out because
unless the casting mage is present astrally at the location of the body,
there is no LOS. It can't be a damaging manipulation (which I had always
assumed it was) because damage manipulations with elemental effects must
be physical and logic (and the way the rules read) seem to indicate that
such a spell couldn't be cast in the astral. On the other hand, there is
nothing in the rules I've been able to find that specifically says you
can't cast a DM in the astral. This whole problem is getting annoying for
me personally. And then there's the question of "if DMs can't ground out
because they travel physically to the target in all cases, then why do
they work in ritual sorcer but combat spells don't?"
--

Ashelock
mailto:woneal@*******.net

"They say it's a brave new world we're building. I say they're right,
and we'll all have to be pretty brave to live in it."

Further Reading

If you enjoyed reading about Astral Projecting and Foci, you may also be interested in:

Disclaimer

These messages were posted a long time ago on a mailing list far, far away. The copyright to their contents probably lies with the original authors of the individual messages, but since they were published in an electronic forum that anyone could subscribe to, and the logs were available to subscribers and most likely non-subscribers as well, it's felt that re-publishing them here is a kind of public service.

Thwap!