Back to the main page

Mailing List Logs for ShadowRN

Message no. 1
From: Callum Shaw <callum_shaw@*******.COM>
Subject: Astral Projection and Dead Mages
Date: Sat, 17 Oct 1998 19:27:58 PDT
I am currently running a campaign where the players have maliciously
killed the unconcious form of a mage who was astrally projecting at the
time.

Under the rules in 3rd edition this means that the mages has X
hours=Magic Rating to wreak havoc on his killers before he fades into
nothingness.

Now in the second edition that meant that althought the amount of time
was the same, the things he/she could do were different. eg grounding
spells through force 1 spirits to get those purely physical opponents
and such.

So what I looking for is ideas on how he could try to extract revenge on
the players, and also what the possible effects of no longer being in
any way bound to a physical presence could have on a (now) purely astral
being?

Also on a side note, given that the metaplanes dont run on the same time
scale as the physical world, could an initiated mages flee to them on
some kind of astral quest to avoid fading out?


Callum

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
Message no. 2
From: Jared Leisner <leisnj48@****.CIS.UWOSH.EDU>
Subject: Re: Astral Projection and Dead Mages
Date: Sat, 17 Oct 1998 23:39:27 -0500
>So what I looking for is ideas on how he could try to extract revenge on
>the players, and also what the possible effects of no longer being in
>any way bound to a physical presence could have on a (now) purely astral
>being?
>
>Also on a side note, given that the metaplanes dont run on the same time
>scale as the physical world, could an initiated mages flee to them on
>some kind of astral quest to avoid fading out?


In one of the Dragonheart books, that evil guy made the woman he killed a
blood spirit...No reason I see why the magical powers-that-be couldn't make
the projecting spirit a free spirit.

Especially if he was a Shaman. Why couldn't the totem send him on an astral
quest to become a free spirit?

-Jared Leisner
Message no. 3
From: Chris Maxfield <cmaxfiel@****.ORG.AU>
Subject: Re: Astral Projection and Dead Mages
Date: Sun, 18 Oct 1998 14:24:48 +1000
At 19:27 17/10/98 PDT, Callum Shaw wrote:
>Under the rules in 3rd edition this means that the mages has X
>hours=Magic Rating to wreak havoc on his killers before he fades into
>nothingness.

X hours = Essence.

>Now in the second edition that meant that althought the amount of time
>was the same, the things he/she could do were different. eg grounding
>spells through force 1 spirits to get those purely physical opponents
>and such.

Force 1? Who conjures force 1 elementals? ;-)

>So what I looking for is ideas on how he could try to extract revenge on
>the players, and also what the possible effects of no longer being in
>any way bound to a physical presence could have on a (now) purely astral
>being?

About all he could do directly himself, if he can find them, is to ambush
any of the magical runners when they next project into the astral. Or he
can haunt them for the few remaining hours he has left - appearing at
inconvenient times to accuse them of murder, theft, cattle molestation,
whatever..

However, as I did in a game once, he could take an indirect course of
action. With his knowledge of his financial account numbers, magic design
files, juicy gossip files, passwords, access codes, etc. he could bargain
with a second group of runners to "chastise" the first group with the
payment being all the details of his financial accounts and other files.
For the runners, especially if they have a decker at hand, this could be a
very juicy deal. Since he's blowing all his worldly goods, the magician
should be able to afford a very proficient team of runners. Also, he can
demand quick action so as to see vengeance before he fades.

This is the way I played the magician in this situation: He was in despair
when he first appeared (fresh after his physical death) but this slowly
changed, over the hours, to a state of acceptance. It was particularly
effective in that he had a familiar that he had treated extremely well and,
although she had gone free at the point of his physical death, she would
not leave his spirit's side, herself sharing the despair. I played the
magician as feeling a sense of fading/dwindling, an increasing loss
contact with the physical world.


>Also on a side note, given that the metaplanes dont run on the same time
>scale as the physical world, could an initiated mages flee to them on
>some kind of astral quest to avoid fading out?

Nope. A magician must project directly into the metaplanes from his body. :-(




Chris Maxfield
<cmaxfiel@****.org.au>
------------------------------------------
Now, my suspicion is that the universe is not only queerer than we
suppose, but queerer than we can suppose . . . . I suspect that
there are more things in heaven and earth than are dreamed of in
any philosophy.
- J B S Haldane, Possible Worlds
----------------------------------------
Canberra, Australia
Message no. 4
From: Sempai Arishu <radowshun@*******.COM>
Subject: Re: Astral Projection and Dead Mages
Date: Sun, 18 Oct 1998 01:54:50 PDT
>>
>>Also on a side note, given that the metaplanes dont run on the same
time
>>scale as the physical world, could an initiated mages flee to them on
>>some kind of astral quest to avoid fading out?
sounds reasonable.....ever read Wraith?
>
>
>In one of the Dragonheart books, that evil guy made the woman he killed
a
>blood spirit...No reason I see why the magical powers-that-be couldn't
make
>the projecting spirit a free spirit.
Maybe they dont like they idea of every insuferable mage toddling up
after death and demanding that they make them a free spirit. Of course
they could just respond do service X for me in the astral plane, making
sure it would take longer than the mage has etc tec.
>
>Especially if he was a Shaman. Why couldn't the totem send him on an
astral
>quest to become a free spirit?
>
So a shamans gonna trap his soul in a half life out of some fear of the
unkown, 10-1 most shamans gonna beleive in reincarnation and will trust
in his/her totem to judge his soul etc etc. They aint gonna want to
trapped in some half life in the astral, of course they could get
reincarnated as a spirit but thats a different matter.
Sempai

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
Message no. 5
From: A Halliwell <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Astral Projection and Dead Mages
Date: Sun, 18 Oct 1998 13:52:08 +0100
And verily, did Callum Shaw hastily scribble thusly...
|Also on a side note, given that the metaplanes dont run on the same time
|scale as the physical world, could an initiated mages flee to them on
|some kind of astral quest to avoid fading out?

I'm not too sure on that one.
The way I understand it, shifting to a metaplane is done from the PHYSICAL
plane, and you can't make a detour into the astral first, so if you're in
the astral plane already, I don't think you CAN get to the metaplanes.

--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| Windows95 (noun): 32 bit extensions and a |
| | graphical shell for a 16 bit patch to an 8 bit |
| Andrew Halliwell | operating system originally coded for a 4 bit |
| Finalist in:- |microprocessor, written by a 2 bit company, that|
| Computer Science | can't stand 1 bit of competition. |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
Message no. 6
From: A Halliwell <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Astral Projection and Dead Mages
Date: Sun, 18 Oct 1998 13:55:58 +0100
And verily, did Chris Maxfield hastily scribble thusly...
|About all he could do directly himself, if he can find them, is to ambush
|any of the magical runners when they next project into the astral. Or he
|can haunt them for the few remaining hours he has left - appearing at
|inconvenient times to accuse them of murder, theft, cattle molestation,
|whatever..

A bit pitiful if that's ALL he can think of.
What about warning the guard that they're about to be attacked?

Telling the guards exactly what the PCs strengths and weaknesses are, etc.

Much more in line with the vengeful spirit...



--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| Windows95 (noun): 32 bit extensions and a |
| | graphical shell for a 16 bit patch to an 8 bit |
| Andrew Halliwell | operating system originally coded for a 4 bit |
| Finalist in:- |microprocessor, written by a 2 bit company, that|
| Computer Science | can't stand 1 bit of competition. |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
Message no. 7
From: Quicksilver <qwksilvr@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: Astral Projection and Dead Mages
Date: Sun, 18 Oct 1998 10:01:11 -0500
At 01:55 PM 10/18/98 +0100, you wrote:
>And verily, did Chris Maxfield hastily scribble thusly...
>|About all he could do directly himself, if he can find them, is to ambush
>|any of the magical runners when they next project into the astral. Or he
>|can haunt them for the few remaining hours he has left - appearing at
>|inconvenient times to accuse them of murder, theft, cattle molestation,
>|whatever..
>
>A bit pitiful if that's ALL he can think of.
>What about warning the guard that they're about to be attacked?
>
>Telling the guards exactly what the PCs strengths and weaknesses are, etc.
>
>Much more in line with the vengeful spirit...

How about contacting his fixer, fellow teammates, or someone he trusts,
and have them set a hit on the killers. In payment he can offer the
keycodes to his vehicles, off-shore accounts, etc.

I haven't read up on SRIII yet, can a projected mage call up his bound
spirits? If so, he could set those upon his killers - preferably in
surprise situations on an individual basis. Appear in front of a killer to
get his attention, "You S.O.B., you killed me.", while his spirits manifest
behind him - then grin knowingly.
He could have the spirits present when he tells his killers the spirits'
real names so that if they go free upon his death it would be in their best
interest to kill the killers (did that make sense?).

Have fun,
Hg


....an analog person, stuck, in a digital world
Message no. 8
From: K in the Shadows <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Astral Projection and Dead Mages
Date: Sun, 18 Oct 1998 14:36:03 EDT
In a message dated 10/17/1998 9:59:36 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
callum_shaw@*******.COM writes:

> I am currently running a campaign where the players have maliciously
> killed the unconcious form of a mage who was astrally projecting at the
> time.

Interesting thought here.

> Under the rules in 3rd edition this means that the mages has X
> hours=Magic Rating to wreak havoc on his killers before he fades into
> nothingness.

Actually, it is equal to their Essence Rating, not their magic rating.
Initiation apparently does NOT help with this one.

> Now in the second edition that meant that althought the amount of time
> was the same, the things he/she could do were different. eg grounding
> spells through force 1 spirits to get those purely physical opponents
> and such.

IF you are using SR3, this option goes. However, getting spirits to do other
things might be feasible.

> So what I looking for is ideas on how he could try to extract revenge on
> the players, and also what the possible effects of no longer being in
> any way bound to a physical presence could have on a (now) purely astral
> being?

All his attributes are not mentally based first of all, and if s/he had any
cyber/bio, then that no longer assists AND the individual is likely to have a
lower essence rating to boot.

> Also on a side note, given that the metaplanes dont run on the same time
> scale as the physical world, could an initiated mages flee to them on
> some kind of astral quest to avoid fading out?

Actually, according to the Grimoire, Metaplanar journeys do NOT have any
effect on the temporary essence loss that normal Astral Projection does.

NOW, as to what could be done.

Well, if the GM ;) were so inclined, they could become a Spectre type of
Ghost, as listed in the SR1&2 books, and gain potential abilities and no
longer be restricted to how long they can work.

Perhaps the magician had a foci that was on his person that was active at that
time. That object could become a variation on the "Hidden Life" objects that
many Free Spirits use. That object could be the center for their ability to
manifest (Materialize in the new rules) and thus influence/effect the
mundane/physical world.

We here have had a longstanding -House Rule- that the Manifestation (now
Materialization) power of many spirits/elementals is allowable for the
magician to utilize from the Astral Plane while Projecting. Stats are the
same as the elementals -OR- they are treated as a Spirit of Man whose "Force"
is equal to their Magic Attribute or Essence (you pick).

Concepts and Ideas from the movie "Ghost" (Swayze/Moore/Goldberg) and
"Frighteners" (Fox) could easily be worked in, and would be quite awesome in
my opinion. Especially if you consider that as each "goal" the Dead Mage
achieves, then their ability to effect the physical world could grow. IF
particular steps are taken, this character could even become a sort of "Flaw"
for the party, a new potentially reoccurring Enemy type of a kind that is
always being very dynamic (changing).

Anything more, contact me in private, the ideas are out there, we've done this
in the past twice to different characters. It proved really worth while.

-K
Message no. 9
From: Jester <jester@**********.NL>
Subject: Re: Astral Projection and Dead Mages
Date: Sun, 18 Oct 1998 20:39:49 +0200
At 19:27, 17 Oct 98, Jester was told by Callum Shaw:

> I am currently running a campaign where the players have
maliciously
> killed the unconcious form of a mage who was astrally projecting at the
> time.
>
> Under the rules in 3rd edition this means that the mages has X
> hours=Magic Rating to wreak havoc on his killers before he fades into
> nothingness.
>
Uhm, maybe I'm mistaken, but won't the spirit of the mage be dead
too? IIRC, when your body suffers (physical) damage your spirit is
pulled back into your body (with considerable force and a splitting
headache on top...:))
BTW I remember this from the SRII rules, so don't thwap me if this is
my mistake, please.

> Now in the second edition that meant that althought the amount of time was
> the same, the things he/she could do were different. eg grounding spells
> through force 1 spirits to get those purely physical opponents and such.

With a following question. If you summon a spirit in astral space,
the drain will be physical. I can see some problems coming if you
realise you don't have a body anymore:).


--
All hail the Computer...

Jester
<jester@**********.nl>

-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version: 3.1
GS d s: a22? c- U? P? L? E? W N- o? K- w+ O--- M? V? PS PE-
Y PGP- t+ 5+++ X+ R+>++ tv++ b+++ DI? D- G e>+ h! r++ y+
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
Message no. 10
From: K in the Shadows <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Astral Projection and Dead Mages
Date: Sun, 18 Oct 1998 14:42:58 EDT
In a message dated 10/18/1998 10:13:39 AM US Eastern Standard Time,
qwksilvr@*****.COM writes:

>
> I haven't read up on SRIII yet, can a projected mage call up his
> bound
> spirits? If so, he could set those upon his killers - preferably in
> surprise situations on an individual basis. Appear in front of a killer to
> get his attention, "You S.O.B., you killed me.", while his spirits
manifest
> behind him - then grin knowingly.

In SR3, the ability to conjure must be done from the physical, but any
spirits/elementals that are already conjured, may be communicated/commanded
from the Astral Plane.

> He could have the spirits present when he tells his killers the
> spirits'
> real names so that if they go free upon his death it would be in their best
> interest to kill the killers (did that make sense?).

Sort of, but that sounds like a last ditch attempt, and wouldn't go over well
in my book.

-K
Message no. 11
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: Astral Projection and Dead Mages
Date: Sun, 18 Oct 1998 20:48:46 +0200
According to Callum Shaw, at 19:27 on 17 Oct 98, the word on the street was...

> So what I looking for is ideas on how he could try to extract revenge on
> the players

Contact his buddies. If this was a shadowrunner, he'll have a group of
runners who can come after the PCs and make their lives difficult;
magicians with other affiliations might also very well have friends who
can do the same. Alternatively, the magician could contact a fixer he
trusts (as far as he can, of course :) and have the fixer get together a
shadowrun team to hunt the PCs in exchange for some money (or similar) the
mage has stashed away and tells the fixer the location of; a variant on
this is to hire the PCs, through a fixer, to do a run that will certainly
kill them.

> and also what the possible effects of no longer being in any way bound
> to a physical presence could have on a (now) purely astral being?

That would depend on the person; some would probably just sob and moan
about being dead while others might see it as their last chance to make a
lasting impact.

> Also on a side note, given that the metaplanes dont run on the same time
> scale as the physical world, could an initiated mages flee to them on
> some kind of astral quest to avoid fading out?

Possibly, but remember that you have to astrally project with the
intention of going to the metaplane. Still, since the magician _only_
exists astrally this might not apply; GM's discretion, I'd say.

However, the magician would have to _not_ reach the Citadel, because then
the quest ends and they're returned to the normal world. Unfortunately,
staying in a world (or whatever it's called -- I can't remember right now)
is also not without risk...

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
A grizzle scene on my electron beam told a story about human rights.
-> NERPS Project Leader * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
-> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-

GC3.1: GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+
PE Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 12
From: "M. Sean Martinez" <ElBandit@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Astral Projection and Dead Mages
Date: Sun, 18 Oct 1998 14:47:43 EDT
In a message dated 10/18/98 2:38:27 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
jester@**********.NL writes:

> With a following question. If you summon a spirit in astral space,
> the drain will be physical. I can see some problems coming if you
> realise you don't have a body anymore:).

SR3 states that you can not summon a spirit while in astral space.

-Bandit
Message no. 13
From: Steadfast <laughingman@*******.DE>
Subject: Re: Astral Projection and Dead Mages
Date: Sun, 18 Oct 1998 23:39:28 +0200
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_01BDFAF0.8BECF820
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

--->Steadfast
to be "human" is not a state of living
I want to achieve.

----------
<snip>
> > Under the rules in 3rd edition this means that the mages has X
> > hours=Magic Rating to wreak havoc on his killers before he fades into
> > nothingness.
> >
> Uhm, maybe I'm mistaken, but won't the spirit of the mage be dead
> too? IIRC, when your body suffers (physical) damage your spirit is
> pulled back into your body (with considerable force and a splitting
> headache on top...:))
> BTW I remember this from the SRII rules, so don't thwap me if this is
> my mistake, please.

Sorry to say so, but it seems your memory fails you here. That one with the
"Just hit my Body hard enough and I will return is a myth that was set in a
Shadowrun Novel (sorry, I just know the german name and that one does not
translate correct)
the one that took place in Chicago I think.
The rules in SR2nd. state roughy the same as the SR3rd. rules, if you got
hit and die the astralprojecting mage KNOWS that he is dead and he has from
this point on time to get his revenge or moan in sorrow whichever he thinks
seems fit. As for a page reference, sorry, I just got the SR2nd. Rules in
german, and I think it has different pageentries than the english one. But
you will find in the Magicsection under ASTRALSPACE/Astral Projection/
effects of astral projection. In german it stands on page 146.

> > Now in the second edition that meant that althought the amount of time
was
> > the same, the things he/she could do were different. eg grounding
spells
> > through force 1 spirits to get those purely physical opponents and
such.
>
> With a following question. If you summon a spirit in astral space,
> the drain will be physical. I can see some problems coming if you
> realise you don't have a body anymore:).

Thats why it's forbidden to conjure while you are on the astral plane.
"The various uses of Conjuring are Exclusive, so they cannot be used
while astrally projectting"
SR3rd. page 189 second Column ASTRAL CONJURING


------=_NextPart_000_01BDFAF0.8BECF820
Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<html><head></head><BODY
bgcolor="#FFFFFF"><p><font size=2 =
color="#000000"
face="Arial">---&gt;Steadfast<br> =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;to be &quot;human&quot; is not a state of
living =
<br> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;I want to =
achieve.<br><br>----------<br>&lt;snip&gt;<br>&gt;
&gt; Under the rules =
in 3rd edition this means that the mages has X<br>&gt; &gt; =
hours=Magic Rating to wreak havoc on his killers before he fades =
into<br>&gt; &gt; nothingness.<br>&gt; &gt;<br>&gt;
Uhm, maybe I'm =
mistaken, but won't the spirit of the mage be dead<br>&gt; too? IIRC, =
when your body suffers (physical) damage your spirit is<br>&gt; pulled =
back into your body (with considerable force and a =
&nbsp;splitting<br>&gt; headache on top...:))<br>&gt; BTW I
remember =
this from the SRII rules, so don't thwap me if this is<br>&gt; my =
mistake, please.<br><br>Sorry to say so, but it seems your memory fails =
you here. That one with the &quot;Just hit my Body hard enough and I =
will return is a myth that was set in a Shadowrun Novel (sorry, I just =
know the german name and that one does not translate correct)<br>the one =
that took place in Chicago I think.<br>The rules in SR2nd. state roughy =
the same as the SR3rd. rules, if you got hit and die the =
astralprojecting mage KNOWS that he is dead and he has from this point =
on time to get his revenge or moan in sorrow whichever he thinks seems =
fit. As for a page reference, sorry, I just got the SR2nd. Rules in =
german, and I think it has different pageentries than the english one. =
But you will find in the Magicsection under ASTRALSPACE/Astral =
Projection/ effects of astral projection. In german it stands on page =
146.<br> <br>&gt; &gt; Now in the second edition that meant that =
althought the amount of time was<br>&gt; &gt; the same, the things =
he/she could do were different. &nbsp;eg grounding spells<br>&gt; &gt; =
through force 1 spirits to get those purely physical opponents and =
such.<br>&gt; <br>&gt; With a following question. If you summon a
spirit =
in astral space,<br>&gt; the drain will be physical. I can see some =
problems coming if you<br>&gt; realise you don't have a body =
anymore:).<br><br>Thats why it's forbidden to conjure while you are on =
the astral plane.<br>&quot;The various uses of Conjuring are Exclusive, =
so they cannot be used<br>while astrally projectting&quot;<br>SR3rd. =
page 189 second Column ASTRAL CONJURING<br><br><br></p>
</font></body></html>
------=_NextPart_000_01BDFAF0.8BECF820--
Message no. 14
From: "D. Ghost" <dghost@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Astral Projection and Dead Mages
Date: Sun, 18 Oct 1998 15:45:23 -0500
On Sun, 18 Oct 1998 10:01:11 -0500 Quicksilver <qwksilvr@*****.COM>
writes:
>At 01:55 PM 10/18/98 +0100, you wrote:
>>And verily, did Chris Maxfield hastily scribble thusly...
>>|About all he could do directly himself, if he can find them, is to
ambush
>>|any of the magical runners when they next project into the astral. Or
he
>>|can haunt them for the few remaining hours he has left - appearing at
>>|inconvenient times to accuse them of murder, theft, cattle
molestation,
>>|whatever..

>>A bit pitiful if that's ALL he can think of.
>>What about warning the guard that they're about to be attacked?
>>
>>Telling the guards exactly what the PCs strengths and weaknesses are,
etc.
>>
>>Much more in line with the vengeful spirit...

> How about contacting his fixer, fellow teammates, or someone he
trusts,
>and have them set a hit on the killers. In payment he can offer the
>keycodes to his vehicles, off-shore accounts, etc.

Or he could go to an old friend, manifest and say, "Help me, <insert
friend's name>, you're my only hope."

> I haven't read up on SRIII yet, can a projected mage call up his
bound
>spirits? If so, he could set those upon his killers - preferably in
>surprise situations on an individual basis. Appear in front of a killer
to
>get his attention, "You S.O.B., you killed me.", while his spirits
manifest
>behind him - then grin knowingly.

This he could do.

> He could have the spirits present when he tells his killers the
spirits'
>real names so that if they go free upon his death it would be in their
best
>interest to kill the killers (did that make sense?).

Spirits don't have true names until they go free. In other words, the
above is not possible since 1) he'd have no way of knowing their true
names before they go free; and 2) even if he set them free (if possible),
he'd still have to go on an astral quest to find the true name (and a
couple of people already said that wasn't possible).

___________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
Message no. 15
From: Mongoose <evamarie@**********.NET>
Subject: Re: Astral Projection and Dead Mages
Date: Sun, 18 Oct 1998 18:11:30 -0700
> Also on a side note, given that the metaplanes dont run on the same time
> scale as the physical world, could an initiated mages flee to them on
> some kind of astral quest to avoid fading out?

<snip>

However, the magician would have to _not_ reach the Citadel, because then
the quest ends and they're returned to the normal world. Unfortunately,
staying in a world (or whatever it's called -- I can't remember right now)
is also not without risk...

+++++++++++++++++++++

The dweller might give you some problems; "Hey, son, ain't you DAID?"
In fact, a quest to the metaplanes could be considered a visit to the
afterlife (or the afterlife could be a set of metaplanes). Most shamanic
intitation / creation involves a death-like experience or trance, and
almost all beliefs about the afterlife include a "dweller" or some other
judge / threat at the crossing point.
Perhaps death FORCES you to go on a "metaplaner journey". A quest to
the "place of ancestors" should be possible for some shaman.

Mongoose
Message no. 16
From: Chris Maxfield <cmaxfiel@****.ORG.AU>
Subject: Re: Astral Projection and Dead Mages
Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 13:26:46 +1000
At 10:01 18/10/98 -0500, Quicksilver wrote:
>At 01:55 PM 10/18/98 +0100, you wrote:
>>A bit pitiful if that's ALL he can think of.
>>What about warning the guard that they're about to be attacked?

I assumed that the original poster was talking about post-run consequences.

> I haven't read up on SRIII yet, can a projected mage call up his
bound
>spirits? If so, he could set those upon his killers - preferably in
>surprise situations on an individual basis. Appear in front of a killer to
>get his attention, "You S.O.B., you killed me.", while his spirits manifest
>behind him - then grin knowingly.

The use of his spirits would be neat except that, according to the SR3
rules, they go unbound when their master is killed. The question is, has
their master been killed? Physically yes but spiritually no. I'd say that
the "killed" in this rule does not apply to this situation. The distance
from its master, that an elemental must remain within, is measured from the
magician's astral form when he's projecting. Therefore, the astral form is
a link for the elementals and while it's still "living" they won't go unbound.

There are some problems however. The magician can't conjure any more
elementals while astral and, if his elementals are not already present in
the astral with him, he cannot summon them forth from their waiting place
in the metaplanes since this is an exclusive action (astral is a magical
activity). However, you could say that with his body dead, the magician's
astral form is his natural form and so it is no longer, strictly, a
"magical" activity. Therefore he could summon forth any elementals waiting
in the metaplanes <shrug>.


Chris Maxfield We are restless because of incessant
<cmaxfiel@****.org.au> change, but we would be frightened if
Canberra, Australia change were stopped.
Message no. 17
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: Astral Projection and Dead Mages
Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 10:44:58 +0200
According to Jester, at 20:39 on 18 Oct 98, the word on the street was...

> Uhm, maybe I'm mistaken, but won't the spirit of the mage be dead
> too? IIRC, when your body suffers (physical) damage your spirit is
> pulled back into your body (with considerable force and a splitting
> headache on top...:))
> BTW I remember this from the SRII rules, so don't thwap me if this is
> my mistake, please.

Even in SRII if you killed the magician's body, the spirit would stay
alive and be able to roam astral space for a certain amount of time; this
didn't change between 1st and 2nd editions. (Hey! You could have lived
longer that way this afternoon :)

> With a following question. If you summon a spirit in astral space,
> the drain will be physical.

SRII never really states this, but you can't summon a spirit in astral
space. I knew for _certain_ I had read this somewhere _years_ ago, but
couldn't find it when asked where I'd read that some time later.
Thankfully SR3 says this straight out.

> I can see some problems coming if you realise you don't have a body
> anymore:).

Yep, me too...

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
A grizzle scene on my electron beam told a story about human rights.
-> NERPS Project Leader * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
-> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-

GC3.1: GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+
PE Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 18
From: Fixer <fixer@*******.TLH.FL.US>
Subject: Re: Astral Projection and Dead Mages
Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 07:49:06 -0400
On Sat, 17 Oct 1998, Callum Shaw wrote:

->I am currently running a campaign where the players have maliciously
->killed the unconcious form of a mage who was astrally projecting at the
->time.
->
->Under the rules in 3rd edition this means that the mages has X
->hours=Magic Rating to wreak havoc on his killers before he fades into
->nothingness.

Or, as a GM alternate rule to counter player misbehavior, have the
mage turn into a Free Spirit if their willpower is strong enough
(Willpower test if you feel like letting it be random). Also, a Free
Spirit with Astral Gateway can prevent the mage from losing essence as
long as the spirit is around (normally the spirit has to stay with the
body, but in this case, it seems appropriate that it would have to stay
with the mage).

->Now in the second edition that meant that althought the amount of time
->was the same, the things he/she could do were different. eg grounding
->spells through force 1 spirits to get those purely physical opponents
->and such.

If you allow the enemy mage to go 'free spirit', manifestation
would be a power it would (hopefully) eventualy receive. Otherwise the
mage would be restricted to purely astral actions.

->So what I looking for is ideas on how he could try to extract revenge on
->the players, and also what the possible effects of no longer being in
->any way bound to a physical presence could have on a (now) purely astral
->being?

EGM to GM: Have fun with it and make your characters miserable.

->Also on a side note, given that the metaplanes dont run on the same time
->scale as the physical world, could an initiated mages flee to them on
->some kind of astral quest to avoid fading out?

I suppose an initiated mage could make an Astral Quest to a
metaplane to request assistance from a 'higher power' to help them...
EvilMage: "I was just projecting, not even at them, and they destroyed my
body and now I'm trapped for my limited remaining time as a bodiless
spirit without an opportunity for revenge!"
PowerfulSpirit: "Revenge? I'm certain an agreement can be arranged for
you to exact revenge......"

Fixer --------------} The easy I do before breakfast,
the difficult I do all day long,
the impossible only during the week,
and miracles performed on an as-needed basis....

Now tell me, what was your problem?
Message no. 19
From: Fixer <fixer@*******.TLH.FL.US>
Subject: Re: Astral Projection and Dead Mages
Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 08:12:00 -0400
On Sun, 18 Oct 1998, A Halliwell wrote:

->And verily, did Callum Shaw hastily scribble thusly...
->|Also on a side note, given that the metaplanes dont run on the same time
->|scale as the physical world, could an initiated mages flee to them on
->|some kind of astral quest to avoid fading out?
->
->I'm not too sure on that one.
->The way I understand it, shifting to a metaplane is done from the PHYSICAL
->plane, and you can't make a detour into the astral first, so if you're in
->the astral plane already, I don't think you CAN get to the metaplanes.

Actually, the connectivity is described as being a cylinder of
sorts. Mana flowing from the metaplanes, through the physical plane (I
think), then through the astral, then back to the metaplanes. The astral
IS connected to the metaplanes, otherwise why would spirits (which rest in
the metaplanes until called for, in my view) manifest first in the Astral
and not in the Physical? As a 'I just made this up because it sounds
good' rule, how about stating that a mage cannot go more than one step
beyond the physical plane as long as he is attached to a physical body?
In this case, a mage (unwillingly) 'freed' of his physical body could
project 'downstream' into the metaplanes, even if they were unintiated.
Why can they move 'downstream'? An initiate learns how to project
'upstream' by going directly to the metaplanes, and they are still within
one step of the physical world (of course, them going against the flow of
mana helps to explain why it is so time-manipulative & potentially
damaging) so this is ok. An uninitiated mage trying to go 'downstream'
through the Astral tries to go two steps from the Physical which their
astral connectivity can't handle, hence they (subconsciously?) do not
attempt it or are restrained by this as long as they have a body.
Thoughts and ideas? I know I'm going out on a limb here, but
anyone else thinks this makes sense?

Fixer --------------} The easy I do before breakfast,
the difficult I do all day long,
the impossible only during the week,
and miracles performed on an as-needed basis....

Now tell me, what was your problem?
Message no. 20
From: Jester <jester@**********.NL>
Subject: Re: Astral Projection and Dead Mages
Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 14:54:21 +0200
At 10:44, 19 Oct 98, Jester was told by Gurth:

> Even in SRII if you killed the magician's body, the spirit would stay
> alive and be able to roam astral space for a certain amount of time; this
> didn't change between 1st and 2nd editions. (Hey! You could have lived
> longer that way this afternoon :)

Yeah, and then? terrorizing some Mantid spirits?...I'm sure they
would've been impressed!:)

--
All hail the Computer...

Jester
<jester@**********.nl>

-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version: 3.1
GS d s: a22? c- U? P? L? E? W N- o? K- w+ O--- M? V? PS PE-
Y PGP- t+ 5+++ X+ R+>++ tv++ b+++ DI? D- G e>+ h! r++ y+
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
Message no. 21
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@******.CARL.ORG>
Subject: Re: Astral Projection and Dead Mages
Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 09:43:16 -0600
For the mere cost of a Thaum, Callum Shaw wrote:
/
/ I am currently running a campaign where the players have maliciously
/ killed the unconcious form of a mage who was astrally projecting at the
/ time.
/
/ Under the rules in 3rd edition this means that the mages has X
/ hours=Magic Rating to wreak havoc on his killers before he fades into
/ nothingness.

[snip]

/ So what I looking for is ideas on how he could try to extract revenge on
/ the players, and also what the possible effects of no longer being in
/ any way bound to a physical presence could have on a (now) purely astral
/ being?

I'm assuming this is an NPC mage.

NPCs can do things PCs can't. The lengths that this mage can go to to
exact revenge are limited only by your imagination :)

He could become a ghost (gaining those nasty ghost powers) and haunt the
PCs until they banish him permanently.

He could possess some innocent victim with low willpower (a bum, a
child, a runway model, etc).

He could possess an inanimate object (alla Christine or Chucky).

Or, if you want to do something simpler he could call on all of his friends
to cast a ritual spell on the PCs.

/ Also on a side note, given that the metaplanes dont run on the same time
/ scale as the physical world, could an initiated mages flee to them on
/ some kind of astral quest to avoid fading out?

Possibly. What's possible and what's not possible on the metaplanes is
loose enough that that might be an option. IMHO, the mage would either
have to be very good, very lucky, or make a deal with something very
powerful for this to work.

-David
--
"Earn what you have been given."
--
email: dbuehrer@******.carl.org
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
Message no. 22
From: Fade <runefo@***.UIO.NO>
Subject: Re: Astral Projection and Dead Mages
Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 18:22:11 +0000
> > So what I looking for is ideas on how he could try to extract revenge on
> > the players

I'm not sure if the mage in question is 'straight' with the law but
it doesn't really matter... Lone Star isn't going to arrest him, are
they? ;) I guess a first-eye witness to murder should carry quite
some weight in testimony... so why not let our dead guy contact
Lone Star?

Fade

--
Fade

And the Prince of Lies said:
"To reign is worth ambition, though in Hell:
Better to reign in hell than to serve in heaven."
-John Milton, Paradise Lost
Message no. 23
From: Mongoose <evamarie@**********.NET>
Subject: Re: Astral Projection and Dead Mages
Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 14:06:57 -0700
> Uhm, maybe I'm mistaken, but won't the spirit of the mage be dead
> too? IIRC, when your body suffers (physical) damage your spirit is
> pulled back into your body (with considerable force and a splitting
> headache on top...:))
> BTW I remember this from the SRII rules, so don't thwap me if this is
> my mistake, please.



Healing the physical body does heal the spirit, but doing any physical
damage to it causes the body to die, but the spirit to live. Damage to
the spirit manifests on the body, and the "healing link" goes both ways,
but damage to the body disrupts the link, killing the mage. At least,
that's how we play it, in SR2 and 3. It's never come up, actually,
although we have had folks hunt for their bodies (after projection from
moving vehicles, usually). If you need to get a mages attention, you
could turn off one of his foci (by removing it form his body, in sr3), but
you can't force him to return.

Mongoose
Message no. 24
From: Steadfast <laughingman@*******.DE>
Subject: Re: Astral Projection and Dead Mages
Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 23:24:55 +0200
And so it came to happen that Fade wrote:

----------
> > > So what I looking for is ideas on how he could try to extract revenge
on
> > > the players
>
> I'm not sure if the mage in question is 'straight' with the law but
> it doesn't really matter... Lone Star isn't going to arrest him, are
> they? ;) I guess a first-eye witness to murder should carry quite
> some weight in testimony... so why not let our dead guy contact
> Lone Star?

"Good day officer, I..."
Blaring alarmhorns, red and yellow lights flashing
"WARNING ASTRAL INTRUDER! WARNING ASTRAL INTRUDER"
"Ahem, are you the Guardelemental of this fine department?"
FLAAAAME
"aha, should have thought about that..."

or

Shaman: "I want to make testimony that I, Running Weasel have been murdered
by a group Shadowrunners, namely....(three
hours later)....and so it
was. Do you have everything on tape for the court?"
Cop1: " More or less. Thanks, we will see to it."
Shaman: "I am gratefull, I will sob now for the rest of my life."
Cop2: "Why havent you told him that we have nothing on the tape then?"
Cop1: "Well I thought to have my good day today, so why slot this poor
fragger up, HE has had a real bad day."

:o)
--->Steadfast
to be "human" is not a state of living
I want to achieve.
Message no. 25
From: Fixer <fixer@*******.TLH.FL.US>
Subject: Re: Astral Projection and Dead Mages
Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 07:30:32 -0400
On Mon, 19 Oct 1998, Steadfast wrote:

->And so it came to happen that Fade wrote:
->
->----------
->> > > So what I looking for is ideas on how he could try to extract revenge
->on
->> > > the players
->>
->> I'm not sure if the mage in question is 'straight' with the law but
->> it doesn't really matter... Lone Star isn't going to arrest him, are
->> they? ;) I guess a first-eye witness to murder should carry quite
->> some weight in testimony... so why not let our dead guy contact
->> Lone Star?
<snip #1>
->
->Shaman: "I want to make testimony that I, Running Weasel have been murdered
-> by a group Shadowrunners, namely....(three
->hours later)....and so it
->was. Do you have everything on tape for the court?"
->Cop1: " More or less. Thanks, we will see to it."
->Shaman: "I am gratefull, I will sob now for the rest of my life."
->Cop2: "Why havent you told him that we have nothing on the tape then?"
->Cop1: "Well I thought to have my good day today, so why slot this poor
->fragger up, HE has had a real bad day."

Actually, it'd probably qualify under 'Deathbed Confession" as
described in the Lone Star book. As the mage would be dead before it
could testify, it declares it's history to the police who testify to it in
court. No, we don't have anything like this currently, because of it's
potential for abuse (EGM's, start your engines!) but it does exist in the
Shadorun world.

Fixer --------------} The easy I do before breakfast,
the difficult I do all day long,
the impossible only during the week,
and miracles performed on an as-needed basis....

Now tell me, what was your problem?
Message no. 26
From: Starjammer <starjammer@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: Astral Projection and Dead Mages
Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 07:32:50 -0400
At 11:24 PM 10-19-98 +0200, you wrote:
>And so it came to happen that Fade wrote:
>>
>> I'm not sure if the mage in question is 'straight' with the law but
>> it doesn't really matter... Lone Star isn't going to arrest him, are
>> they? ;) I guess a first-eye witness to murder should carry quite
>> some weight in testimony... so why not let our dead guy contact
>> Lone Star?

<snip Steadfast's shamanic sob story about the ghost's unrecordable testimony>

Actually, in many US jurisdictions there are "dying declaration" laws.
That is, if you are obviously near death and tell something to a cop or
other "official" type (who it can be depends on the law in a given place)
before you die, then the evidentiary rules against hearsay go out the
window and that person's testimony on your statement becomes legal
evidence, just as if you were in court giving eye-witness testimony.

So yes, if you float on down to the Lone Star station and get them to
determine that you are, well, an ex-you, then anything and everything you
tell them becomes legally-admissible gospel. Anything and everything.

And everyone knows that dead men do no time for perjury. ;) This works
especially well if the bunch who whacked you committed (or can be framed
for) some unsolved crimes. Go to someone who'd like to see the killers go
down and get them to "help your recollection" before making your statement
in front of 20 cops. So long as what you say can't be refuted by physical
evidence or eye-witness testimony, it's golden. And even if it doesn't get
used in court it's still perfectly good as probable cause for a search
warrant, and we know how much fun those can be...

Starjammer | Una salus victus nullam sperare salutem.
starjammer@**********.com | "The one hope of the doomed is not to hope
Marietta, GA | for safety." --Virgil, The Aeneid
Message no. 27
From: Sean McCrohan <mccrohan@*****.OIT.GATECH.EDU>
Subject: Re: Astral Projection and Dead Mages
Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 08:31:41 -0400
Quoting Starjammer (starjammer@**********.COM):
> And everyone knows that dead men do no time for perjury. ;) This works
> especially well if the bunch who whacked you committed (or can be framed
> for) some unsolved crimes. Go to someone who'd like to see the killers go
> down and get them to "help your recollection" before making your statement
> in front of 20 cops. So long as what you say can't be refuted by physical
> evidence or eye-witness testimony, it's golden. And even if it doesn't get
> used in court it's still perfectly good as probable cause for a search
> warrant, and we know how much fun those can be...

In fact, you might not even have to be dead....

Well, think about it. If you're careful to pick a LoneStar station
without heavy magical backup, you could give a 'deathbed declaration' about
some body that's not even yours. After all, astral forms don't look the same
as physical ones (and even disregarding that, you could get a body that
looks sufficiently like you). They can't exactly cehck your credstick to
make sure that your astrally-maifesting magician is who he says he is.
Could be fun...

--Sean

--
Sean McCrohan (mccrohan@**.gatech.edu) | "He uses his folly as a stalking
Grad Student, Human-Computer Interaction | horse, and under the presentation
Georgia Institute of Technology | of that he shoots his wit."
http://www.lcc.gatech.edu/~smccrohan | _As You Like It_, Act 5 Sc 4
Message no. 28
From: Steadfast <laughingman@*******.DE>
Subject: Re: Astral Projection and Dead Mages
Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 15:20:49 +0200
And so it came to happen that Fixer wrote:
----------
<snip>
> Actually, it'd probably qualify under 'Deathbed Confession" as
> described in the Lone Star book. As the mage would be dead before it
> could testify, it declares it's history to the police who testify to it
in
> court. No, we don't have anything like this currently, because of it's
> potential for abuse (EGM's, start your engines!) but it does exist in the
> Shadorun world.
>
> Fixer

Must have overread that section in LS. I also did not know this "Deathbed
Confession" but here in germany we have something similar, now that I came
to think about it.
Thanks anyway, I'll probably use that in the future, might be some fun :o)

--->Steadfast
to be "human" is not a state of living
I want to achieve.
Message no. 29
From: Fixer <fixer@*******.TLH.FL.US>
Subject: Re: Astral Projection and Dead Mages
Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 10:47:07 -0400
On Tue, 20 Oct 1998, Sean McCrohan wrote:

->Quoting Starjammer (starjammer@**********.COM):
->> And everyone knows that dead men do no time for perjury. ;) This works
->> especially well if the bunch who whacked you committed (or can be framed
->> for) some unsolved crimes. Go to someone who'd like to see the killers go
->> down and get them to "help your recollection" before making your
statement
->> in front of 20 cops. So long as what you say can't be refuted by physical
->> evidence or eye-witness testimony, it's golden. And even if it doesn't get
->> used in court it's still perfectly good as probable cause for a search
->> warrant, and we know how much fun those can be...
->
-> In fact, you might not even have to be dead....
->
-> Well, think about it. If you're careful to pick a LoneStar station
->without heavy magical backup, you could give a 'deathbed declaration' about
->some body that's not even yours. After all, astral forms don't look the same
->as physical ones (and even disregarding that, you could get a body that
->looks sufficiently like you). They can't exactly cehck your credstick to
->make sure that your astrally-maifesting magician is who he says he is.
->Could be fun...

They'd call in for magical backup to assense the spirit and then
the body (their auras should match, otherwise no dice). Nice idea though.
Oh Hell, I just thought of something.... calling for 'magical
backup' doesn't work the same any more! If the mage projects and goes to
the combat scene, what can he do? He can fight spirits, maybe foci, but
he can't allocate spell defense, can't intercept incoming spells like they
used to..... I see more mages on the beat being more common now....
Unless the LS mage gets lucky and the mage perceives or projects, the mage
has to sit there and watch the pretty fireworks.

Fixer --------------} The easy I do before breakfast,
the difficult I do all day long,
the impossible only during the week,
and miracles performed on an as-needed basis....

Now tell me, what was your problem?
Message no. 30
From: Mongoose <evamarie@**********.NET>
Subject: Re: Astral Projection and Dead Mages
Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 15:43:01 -0700
: In fact, you might not even have to be dead....
:
: Well, think about it. If you're careful to pick a LoneStar
station
:without heavy magical backup, you could give a 'deathbed declaration'
about
:some body that's not even yours. After all, astral forms don't look the
same
:as physical ones (and even disregarding that, you could get a body that
:looks sufficiently like you). They can't exactly cehck your credstick to
:make sure that your astrally-maifesting magician is who he says he is.
:Could be fun...

For this reason, I think such a "deathbed testimony" would get thrown
out (in a trial) by any competent lawyer or sentient judge if not taken by
a thamturgical forensics expert, with later verification of "signature"
somehow (examination of a body, most likely, or perhaps magic items found
with body).
"Masking" might get around this, but a good defense attorney would
know that, and ask if their had been a demonstration of signature or any
other solid link to the body.
And yes, search warrants and arrests have been based on much less...

Mongoose
Message no. 31
From: Kama <kama@*******.NET>
Subject: Re: Astral Projection and Dead Mages
Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 16:55:23 -0400
On Tue, 20 Oct 1998, Mongoose wrote:

> : In fact, you might not even have to be dead....
> :
> : Well, think about it. If you're careful to pick a LoneStar
> station
> :without heavy magical backup, you could give a 'deathbed declaration'
> about
> :some body that's not even yours. After all, astral forms don't look the
> same
> :as physical ones (and even disregarding that, you could get a body that
> :looks sufficiently like you). They can't exactly cehck your credstick to
> :make sure that your astrally-maifesting magician is who he says he is.
> :Could be fun...
>
> For this reason, I think such a "deathbed testimony" would get thrown
> out (in a trial) by any competent lawyer or sentient judge if not taken by
> a thamturgical forensics expert, with later verification of "signature"
> somehow (examination of a body, most likely, or perhaps magic items found
> with body).
> "Masking" might get around this, but a good defense attorney would
> know that, and ask if their had been a demonstration of signature or any
> other solid link to the body.
> And yes, search warrants and arrests have been based on much less...
>

I don't think that the lack of a thaumatergical forensics expert would get
the evidence thrown out. Admittedly any competant defense attorney would
hire expert witnesses {who would be contradicted by the prosecutions
expert witnesses} to point out that the "ghost" might have just been a
projecting mage setting his client up, but (assuming the UCAS still has
jury trials) the jury is going to be expected to decide if the testimony
of the "spirit" as transcribed by the officer (he would not have been
foolish enough not to call in a stenographer or to have transcribed the
material himself) was believable. Assuming the mage included enough detail
{"He shot me with a Manhunter, he threw the casing with his fingerprints
into the trashcan by the soda machine in the McHugh's on Fifth street just
off I-5 and then hid the gun under his mattress in his apartment the
address is . . . How do I know this? I followed him for an hour or two
once he killed me, then I saw a Lone Star patrol vehicle and realized that
if I came here I could help see that justice was done and that the $#%@#
would never hurt anyone again. Tell my family I loved them . . . (fade)}
The story would be "documented" by enough evidence that any jury would
probably believe it. {However, after OJ I refuse to predict the outcome of
any jury trial.}

Even if ultimately aquited by the jury, it would cost the accused a lot of
money, might result in enough evidence being gathered to convict him of
another crime, would publicise his face (a bad thing for any runner), and
leave him with numerous people believing that he was guilty.

I may try it . . :)

- Kama
Message no. 32
From: Tarek Okail <Tarek_Okail@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: Astral Projection and Dead Mages
Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 17:08:28 -0400
Fixer--

>If the mage projects and goes to the combat scene, what can
>he do?

He can bring a few spirits along. Fire elementals and Air
elementals are particularily valuable, given their powers, and
Earth and Water elementals can help a great deal with non-combat
actions like "put out that fire" and "get that civilian out of
that truck."

Shadowmage

Further Reading

If you enjoyed reading about Astral Projection and Dead Mages, you may also be interested in:

Disclaimer

These messages were posted a long time ago on a mailing list far, far away. The copyright to their contents probably lies with the original authors of the individual messages, but since they were published in an electronic forum that anyone could subscribe to, and the logs were available to subscribers and most likely non-subscribers as well, it's felt that re-publishing them here is a kind of public service.