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Message no. 1
From: Callum Shaw <callum_shaw@*******.COM>
Subject: Astral Projection and Dead Mages: additional
Date: Sat, 17 Oct 1998 19:39:23 PDT
Could a mage bind and command a spirit to temporarily sustain his life
force in a manner similar to how an elemental can sustain a spell?

Max the mage having just been shot dead while astrally projecting throws
his views of conventional morality right out the window, and sacrifices
the "lives" of his two bound elementals to gain a few more hours of life
in which to seek revenge.

Callum

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Message no. 2
From: Sempai Arishu <radowshun@*******.COM>
Subject: Re: Astral Projection and Dead Mages: additional
Date: Sun, 18 Oct 1998 02:01:33 PDT
*savours the sound of worms pouring out of a can*
>Could a mage bind and command a spirit to temporarily sustain his life
>force in a manner similar to how an elemental can sustain a spell?
It would really drain the poor elemental and would take some serious
force to keep it going, think of the power cybermancy needs to keep the
spirit in the body it would take that kind of juju, of course it sounds
perfectly reasonable.
>
>Max the mage having just been shot dead while astrally projecting
throws
>his views of conventional morality right out the window, and sacrifices
>the "lives" of his two bound elementals to gain a few more hours of
life
>in which to seek revenge.
>
and i suppose also seek lots of pointy sharp things with which to jab
his opressor?
Sempai

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Message no. 3
From: Mongoose <evamarie@**********.NET>
Subject: Re: Astral Projection and Dead Mages: additional
Date: Sun, 18 Oct 1998 17:04:55 -0700
:Could a mage bind and command a spirit to temporarily sustain his life
:force in a manner similar to how an elemental can sustain a spell?

No, sorry. First, certain conjuring things (banishing and summoning,
iirc) can only be done while "in yer bones". Second, that sounds a lot
like essence drain, and would probably change the mage int "something
else" if he accomplished it. It would be a new metamagical technique if
possible, one best learned long before needed, and with the fact in mind
that it would cause irreversable change. If possible, a mage MIGHT live a
long time, contesting for control when his life gets low.

:Max the mage having just been shot dead while astrally projecting throws
:his views of conventional morality right out the window, and sacrifices
:the "lives" of his two bound elementals to gain a few more hours of life
:in which to seek revenge.


Well, yeah, if Max knew what to do, that's about how it would happen.
<g>

Mongoose
Message no. 4
From: Fixer <fixer@*******.TLH.FL.US>
Subject: Re: Astral Projection and Dead Mages: additional
Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 07:50:04 -0400
On Sat, 17 Oct 1998, Callum Shaw wrote:

->Could a mage bind and command a spirit to temporarily sustain his life
->force in a manner similar to how an elemental can sustain a spell?

My vote: No. Unless it was a Free Spirit with the Astral Gateway
power.

Fixer --------------} The easy I do before breakfast,
the difficult I do all day long,
the impossible only during the week,
and miracles performed on an as-needed basis....

Now tell me, what was your problem?
Message no. 5
From: Sean McCrohan <mccrohan@*****.OIT.GATECH.EDU>
Subject: Re: Astral Projection and Dead Mages: additional
Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 08:26:46 -0400
Quoting Fixer (fixer@*******.TLH.FL.US):
> On Sat, 17 Oct 1998, Callum Shaw wrote:
>
> ->Could a mage bind and command a spirit to temporarily sustain his life
> ->force in a manner similar to how an elemental can sustain a spell?
>
> My vote: No. Unless it was a Free Spirit with the Astral Gateway
> power.

By the rules, I'd agree with Fixer. However, as always, if you're
dealing with a PC or a major villain, you can always throw out the rules
and go for what seems dramatically appropriate.
Basically, I don't think you'd want to make a rule that would allow
random mages all over the world to be coming back from the dead or turning
themselves into Free Spirits, nor would you want players to EXPECT to be
able to do so. But if the situation comes up, it wouldn't be hard to
justify doing something extraordinary if it added to your campaign. It's
the kind of thing that'll leave the PCs cratching their heads and saying
"How the frag did he do THAT??"...or, in the case of a PC, the sort of thing
that changes a character forever.
If you let a PC pull this off (finding a way to survive after death
because they were astrally projecting) and they managed to achieve a stable
existance as a spirit, it'd probably affect the direction of your game a
bit. ("Hey! How many Karma to learn that Create Wealth power?") If they
managed to get back into the physical world (maybe you let them re-enter
their body after someone patched the holes and got them to an ER), you'd
have to make sure the player didn't blow off the experience. Some interesting
stat changes might be in order, too. Hmmm...


--Sean


--
Sean McCrohan (mccrohan@**.gatech.edu) | "He uses his folly as a stalking
Grad Student, Human-Computer Interaction | horse, and under the presentation
Georgia Institute of Technology | of that he shoots his wit."
http://www.lcc.gatech.edu/~smccrohan | _As You Like It_, Act 5 Sc 4
Message no. 6
From: K in the Shadows <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Astral Projection and Dead Mages: additional
Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 13:17:34 EDT
In a message dated 10/19/1998 7:27:14 AM US Eastern Standard Time,
mccrohan@*****.OIT.GATECH.EDU writes:

> If you let a PC pull this off (finding a way to survive after death
> because they were astrally projecting) and they managed to achieve a stable
> existance as a spirit, it'd probably affect the direction of your game a
> bit. ("Hey! How many Karma to learn that Create Wealth power?")

(* At this point K seems to suddenly hold back on tons of outrageous jokes he
knows, both in and out of game *)

Player : Hey, I can manifest, so can the spirit, yes?

GM : Well, yes, sort of the same.

Player : And if a Spirit breaks free of it's bonds to this world, they can
possibly gain Free Spirit abilities, like Dispelling (this was obviously a
previous generation argument) or Aura Masking, yes?

GM : Again, yes, basically the same.

Player : So what is stopping the Initiate, who also has some connections to
the Metaplanes, as does the Free Spirit, from developing a variation on
"Wealth" and "Personal Domain" like a Free Spirit?

GM : ME!!!! (who inwardly can't argue all of the logic, just hates the twists
involved in it)


-K
Message no. 7
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: Astral Projection and Dead Mages: additional
Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 20:02:45 +0200
According to K in the Shadows, at 13:17 on 19 Oct 98, the word on the street was...

[snip]
> GM : ME!!!! (who inwardly can't argue all of the logic, just hates the
twists
> involved in it)

Keith, I think you've discovered how FASAMike may have felt when you and
Mike B. started asking him about the fideal and all that at the SR seminar
:)

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
A grizzle scene on my electron beam told a story about human rights.
-> NERPS Project Leader * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
-> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-

GC3.1: GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+
PE Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 8
From: K in the Shadows <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Astral Projection and Dead Mages: additional
Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 15:00:02 EDT
In a message dated 10/19/1998 1:02:55 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
gurth@******.NL writes:

>
> Keith, I think you've discovered how FASAMike may have felt when you and
> Mike B. started asking him about the fideal and all that at the SR seminar
> :)

We weren't talking about the Fideal actually, and if you recall, I quit
defending Mike B. because I realized something in midstride. As for
realization, that came a LONG time ago.

-K
Message no. 9
From: Wolfchild <nathan.olsen@*******.MSUS.EDU>
Subject: Re: Astral Projection and Dead Mages: additional
Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 14:35:22 -0500
> If you let a PC pull this off (finding a way to survive after death
> because they were astrally projecting) and they managed to achieve a stable
> existance as a spirit, it'd probably affect the direction of your game a
> bit. ("Hey! How many Karma to learn that Create Wealth power?") If they
> managed to get back into the physical world (maybe you let them re-enter
> their body after someone patched the holes and got them to an ER), you'd
> have to make sure the player didn't blow off the experience. Some interesting
> stat changes might be in order, too. Hmmm...

That is actually an interesting concept for an entire game. A group of
magicians are off projecting together (for whatever reason), when they are
all killed by a seemingly random terrorist bomb. They then have a few
hours to find their killers, wreak havoc, and maybe - just maybe - find a
way to sustain themselves in the afterlife. Even if they all fade out, a
storyline similar to the movie "What Dreams May Come" could be interesting
to explore.


Wolfchild - "Discinctaque in otia natus."
--
_,-/ "Desperanda tibi salva concordia socru." \-,_
,-~ / -Juvenal, Satire 6 \ ~-,
/' | /(_ "Quin tu istanc orationem hinc _)\ | `\
/' / \,_/ .\ veterem atque antiquam amoves?" /. \_,/ \ `\
| | /, ,-' -Plautus, Miles Gloriosus `-, ,\ | |
| | ,-, \ \,?| There are nights when the wolves are |@,/ / ,-, | |
| ,-|/ / ,_\,_/_ silent, and only the moon howls. _\_,/_ \ \|-, |
|/' | __, _) ZOMBIE@****.MANKATO.MSUS.EDU (_ ,__` | `\|
| `;-~_.--~ ZOMBIE@****.MANKATO.MSUS.EDU ~--._~-;' |
\ \__ http://krypton.mankato.msus.edu __/ /
`,-,`` /~zombie/lynx.htm '',-,'
((|))____/~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~\____((|))
Message no. 10
From: Mike Bobroff <Airwasp@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Astral Projection and Dead Mages: additional
Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 00:30:18 EDT
In a message dated 10/19/98 2:01:18 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
Ereskanti@***.COM writes:

> > Keith, I think you've discovered how FASAMike may have felt when you and
> > Mike B. started asking him about the fideal and all that at the SR
> seminar
> > :)
>
> We weren't talking about the Fideal actually, and if you recall, I quit
> defending Mike B. because I realized something in midstride. As for
> realization, that came a LONG time ago.

K stopped defending me because he realized that I might use something of what
I was talking about against them in a game possibly at the time.

-Herc
------ The Best Mechanic you can ever have.
Message no. 11
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: Astral Projection and Dead Mages: additional
Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 10:39:29 +0200
According to K in the Shadows, at 15:00 on 19 Oct 98, the word on the street was...

> We weren't talking about the Fideal actually

Now you mention it, you weren't talking about that, but it did come up
AFAICR... Anyway, it doesn't matter.

> and if you recall, I quit defending Mike B. because I realized something
> in midstride. As for realization, that came a LONG time ago.

:)

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
A grizzle scene on my electron beam told a story about human rights.
-> NERPS Project Leader * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
-> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-

GC3.1: GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+
PE Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998

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