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Message no. 1
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Christian Casavant)
Subject: Astral Security.
Date: Tue Jan 29 11:50:01 2002
Before we run the risk of flogging a dead movement horse I figured I
would introduce a new thread; one which has less to do with rules and
more with stylistics.

In present day, one of the largest status symbols in the corporate world
in the penthouse office with a sublime view of...well, whatever you want.

However, that doesn't really take into account the possibilty of astral
invasion. It would be possible for a sufficiently powerful mage to
dismantle and astral barrier, and expended services of a few elementals
to assassinate a hapless chief executive.

Not taking into account the ritual wards a team of mages would erect
(aside: are wards spherical or are they domes? I've always played
spheres that become domes due to proximity to the earth) and the added
extra roving astral security such as watchers/elementals, even possibly
a permanently assensing mage to supplement the bodyguarding staff. All
these things are crucial to providing proper astral security for top
dollars - I mean, nuyen.

However, proper security is all about minimizing chances. The best way
to minimize the chance of astral penetration is to keep whatever you
want to protect underground since you can't astrally project through the
earth. Agreed?

How many peeps run their worlds where the chief executives of the
megacorps have their offices underground, or do GMs keep their VIPs high
up in the air so they can survey their mighty empires?

Me.
Message no. 2
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Meph)
Subject: Astral Security.
Date: Tue Jan 29 12:20:01 2002
> However, proper security is all about minimizing chances. The best way
> to minimize the chance of astral penetration is to keep whatever you
> want to protect underground since you can't astrally project through the
> earth. Agreed?


But couldn't the mage just as easily come down the elevator shaft? In
some of the SR fiction I've read they've talked about a bacteria that is
alive and they put in walls to keep astral projectors out! But I don't know
if it's mentioned in the game book anywhere!

Meph
Message no. 3
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Graht)
Subject: Astral Security.
Date: Tue Jan 29 12:20:04 2002
At 05:01 PM 1/29/2002 +0000, Christian Casavant wrote:
>Before we run the risk of flogging a dead movement horse I figured I would
>introduce a new thread; one which has less to do with rules and more with
>stylistics.
>
>In present day, one of the largest status symbols in the corporate world
>in the penthouse office with a sublime view of...well, whatever you want.
>
>However, that doesn't really take into account the possibilty of astral
>invasion. It would be possible for a sufficiently powerful mage to
>dismantle and astral barrier, and expended services of a few elementals to
>assassinate a hapless chief executive.
>
>Not taking into account the ritual wards a team of mages would erect
>(aside: are wards spherical or are they domes? I've always played
>spheres that become domes due to proximity to the earth) and the added
>extra roving astral security such as watchers/elementals, even possibly a
>permanently assensing mage to supplement the bodyguarding staff. All
>these things are crucial to providing proper astral security for top
>dollars - I mean, nuyen.
>
>However, proper security is all about minimizing chances. The best way to
>minimize the chance of astral penetration is to keep whatever you want to
>protect underground since you can't astrally project through the
>earth. Agreed?
>
>How many peeps run their worlds where the chief executives of the
>megacorps have their offices underground, or do GMs keep their VIPs high
>up in the air so they can survey their mighty empires?

In my world the CEOs and VPs live in the luxury penthouses.

The deterring factor is the same factor that keeps current countries with
nuclear weapons from nuking each other, and keeps SR corps from going to
war with each other.

It's one of the rules in my Shadowrun universe. Thou shalt not assassinate
a CEO or VP unless he is in a weak position (the target corp actually
considers this something of a favor), or you can 100% get away with it.

As there are seven ways from Sunday to trace a magical attack, this is the
least favored method of assassination. The most favored way is a single
bullet.

To Life,
-Graht
ShadowRN Assistant Fearless Leader II
--
Message no. 4
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Will)
Subject: Astral Security.
Date: Tue Jan 29 14:45:01 2002
----- Original Message -----
From: "Meph" <meph@*********.net>
To: <shadowrn@*********.com>
Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2002 2:19 PM
Subject: Re: Astral Security.


> > However, proper security is all about minimizing chances. The best way
> > to minimize the chance of astral penetration is to keep whatever you
> > want to protect underground since you can't astrally project through the
> > earth. Agreed?
>
>
> But couldn't the mage just as easily come down the elevator shaft? In
> some of the SR fiction I've read they've talked about a bacteria that is
> alive and they put in walls to keep astral projectors out! But I don't
know
> if it's mentioned in the game book anywhere!
>
> Meph

That brings another question to my mind.

What about vegetation ? If thick weed blocks astral, perhaps we could
install a sliding vegetation pane in the shaft and forget about ward and
expensive bacteria.

Will
Message no. 5
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Colin Stacey)
Subject: Astral Security.
Date: Tue Jan 29 15:25:01 2002
--- Will <will@***.com.br> wrote:
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Meph" <meph@*********.net>
> To: <shadowrn@*********.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2002 2:19 PM
> Subject: Re: Astral Security.
>
>
> > > MEPH wrote:

However, proper security is all about minimizing
> chances. The best way
> > > to minimize the chance of astral penetration is
> to keep whatever you
> > > want to protect underground since you can't
> astrally project through the
> > > earth. Agreed?
> >
> > You can project through the EARTH. It
just takes a very long time, a projecting mage can go
through only 1 meter every 30 minutes. Besides being
slow it is also easy to get lost. This makes
facilities that are deep under ground very difficult
to access astrally.


> > But couldn't the mage just as easily come down
> the elevator shaft? In
> > some of the SR fiction I've read they've talked
> about a bacteria that is
> > alive and they put in walls to keep astral
> projectors out! But I don't
> know
> > if it's mentioned in the game book anywhere!

This bacteria is in one of the game
books, I am not sure which one. If anyone know which
book please enlighten all of us. This bacteria can be
very nasty as some of them attack the astral form of
the projecting magician while others are passive and
merely make the astral form glow on the physical
plane.

>
> That brings another question to my mind.
>
> What about vegetation ? If thick weed blocks astral,
> perhaps we could
> install a sliding vegetation pane in the shaft and
> forget about ward and
> expensive bacteria.
Will
>
The folks that I game with have
had some discussions about this possibility of
blocking Astral intrusion using vegetation. My take on
this is that standard vegetation will not work. It has
to be vegetation with an astral presence (there are
versions of plants out there that have an astral
presence in 206X). Let me explain why the astral
presence in necessary, on page 172 (that page is from
memory so if it is incorrect please forgive me)of the
SR3 book, there is a section that describes the chance
of noticing that someone projecting has passed through
your mundane body/aura. Normal vegetation (normal
people and mages/shamans that are not currently active
on the astral plane for that matter) has an aura but
no astral presence, therefore it is possible to pass
through it.

IMHO the barrier/ward is the best passive security as
the creator is aware when these are breached. This
will generally get a swift and intense response from
the corp, especially if the wards are layered (a weak
barrier just outside a tough barrier - a weak one get
the creators attention when its broken and the strong
barrier to engage the attacker while the response is
on the way)
>
>Colin
>


______________________________________________________________________
Web-hosting solutions for home and business! http://website.yahoo.ca
Message no. 6
From: shadowrn@*********.com (LeBlanc, Lange)
Subject: Astral Security.
Date: Tue Jan 29 15:30:01 2002
<SNIP>
> This bacteria is in one of the game
> books, I am not sure which one. If anyone know which
> book please enlighten all of us. This bacteria can be
> very nasty as some of them attack the astral form of
> the projecting magician while others are passive and
> merely make the astral form glow on the physical
> plane.

The bacteria is introduced in Magic in the Shadows, and I believe
there's also some context-specific extras in Man and Machine, in the
Cyberzombies section. Don't have my manuals here, so can't give exact
page numbers.
Message no. 7
From: shadowrn@*********.com (shadowrn@*********.com)
Subject: Astral Security.
Date: Tue Jan 29 20:10:00 2002
> That brings another question to my mind.
>
> What about vegetation ? If thick weed blocks astral, perhaps we could
> install a sliding vegetation pane in the shaft and forget about ward and
> expensive bacteria.

Exactly. That's what I did GM'ing a run on a secret Sioux research base. It was
camoflagued as a small civillian village, the place was codenamed Potemkin. Anyway.

Firth off it was located underground so the natural earth slowed projecting mages down.
Then wards all around the walls as another defence.

And in all the lift/ventilation shafts and stairwells we had extending/retractable grills
filled with bio-fibre kind of like portcullas'. When you needed in they pulled back the
outter grill and you walked past, the grill closing behind you. There was another grill in
front so effectively you were boxed in. An astral sec mage took a shufti to make sure
there were no uninvited guest, then they opened the inner grill.

The place was practically impregnable. And it isn't that hard to regulate for Luxury
lifestyles that corp VP's have. Okay, they wouldn't get the protection from being
undergrounf in a penthouse, but powerful enough wards should be enough.
Message no. 8
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Rand Ratinac)
Subject: Astral Security.
Date: Tue Jan 29 20:55:00 2002
> > At 05:01 PM 1/29/2002 +0000, Christian Casavant
wrote:
> > How many peeps run their worlds where the chief
executives of the megacorps have their offices
underground, or do GMs keep their VIPs high up in the
air so they can survey their mighty empires?
>
> In my world the CEOs and VPs live in the luxury
penthouses.
>
> The deterring factor is the same factor that keeps
current countries with nuclear weapons from nuking
each other, and keeps SR corps from going to war with
each other.
>
> It's one of the rules in my Shadowrun universe.
Thou shalt not assassinate a CEO or VP unless he is in
a weak position (the target corp actually considers
this something of a favor), or you can 100% get away
with it.
>
> As there are seven ways from Sunday to trace a
magical attack, this is the least favored method of
assassination. The most favored way is a single
bullet.
> -Graht

I go with something like Graht's interpretation,
although my bosses tend to be a bit more cautious.

Everyone has the impressive high rise penthouses, at
least for meetings and for showing off. Actually
living in such a place or not depends on the
individual. Some CEOs may have official residences
like that, but actually live in something resembling a
military bunker.

Smaller companies tend to be more circumspect. After
all, the deterrent method only works if you're just as
or more powerful than your enemies. I wrote one story
where a 2nd tier megacorp CEO had a pokey office in
the middle of a squat, highly secured building. No
windows or shit at all.

====Doc'
(aka Mr. Freaky Big, Super-Dynamic Troll of Tomorrow, aka Doc'booner, aka Doc' Vader)

.sig Sauer

If you SMELL what the DOC' is COOKING!!!

__________________________________________________
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Message no. 9
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Rand Ratinac)
Subject: Astral Security.
Date: Tue Jan 29 21:25:01 2002
<snipt!(TM)>
> The bacteria is introduced in Magic in the Shadows,
and I believe there's also some context-specific
extras in Man and Machine, in the Cyberzombies
section. Don't have my manuals here, so can't give
exact page numbers.

FAB (Fat Astral - or Airborne, can't remember which -
Bacteria) first appeared in the Corporate Security
Handbook, back in SRII. FAB III, the strain that
attacks astrally active items, first appeared in
Threats, I believe. Since SR3, I believe that both
have been moved to MitS, yes.

====Doc'
(aka Mr. Freaky Big, Super-Dynamic Troll of Tomorrow, aka Doc'booner, aka Doc' Vader)

.sig Sauer

If you SMELL what the DOC' is COOKING!!!

__________________________________________________
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Message no. 10
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Rand Ratinac)
Subject: Astral Security.
Date: Tue Jan 29 22:55:02 2002
> > What about vegetation ? If thick weed blocks
astral, perhaps we could install a sliding vegetation
pane in the shaft and forget about ward and expensive
bacteria.
>
> Exactly. That's what I did GM'ing a run on a secret
Sioux research base. It was camoflagued as a small
civillian village, the place was codenamed Potemkin.
Anyway.

<snipt!(TM) description of facility>

> The place was practically impregnable. And it isn't
that hard to regulate for Luxury lifestyles that corp
VP's have. Okay, they wouldn't get the protection from
being undergrounf in a penthouse, but powerful enough
wards should be enough.

Except that as of SR3, living objects do NOT block
astral projection. Only astrally active objects do that.

====Doc'
(aka Mr. Freaky Big, Super-Dynamic Troll of Tomorrow, aka Doc'booner, aka Doc' Vader)

.sig Sauer

If you SMELL what the DOC' is COOKING!!!

__________________________________________________
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Message no. 11
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Bira)
Subject: Astral Security.
Date: Tue Jan 29 23:45:07 2002
On Tue, 29 Jan 2002 17:01:28 +0000
Christian Casavant <christian@********.org> wrote:

>
> Not taking into account the ritual wards a team of mages would erect
> (aside: are wards spherical or are they domes? I've always played
> spheres that become domes due to proximity to the earth)

I always say wards take the shape of whatever space you're
warding. A ward on an apartment takes the exact shape of the apartment
(kinda cubic :)). A ward on an open space would take the shape of a dome.

--
Bira <ra002585@**.unicamp.br>
Message no. 12
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Bira)
Subject: Astral Security.
Date: Tue Jan 29 23:45:13 2002
On Tue, 29 Jan 2002 17:44:43 -0300
"Will" <will@***.com.br> wrote:

> What about vegetation ? If thick weed blocks astral, perhaps we could
> install a sliding vegetation pane in the shaft and forget about ward and
> expensive bacteria.
>
> Will

Only if that vegetation is astrally active. If it's mundane, any
mage or spirit can go through it.


--
Bira <ra002585@**.unicamp.br>
Message no. 13
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Meph)
Subject: Astral Security.
Date: Wed Jan 30 02:10:04 2002
>
> What about vegetation ? If thick weed blocks astral, perhaps we could
> install a sliding vegetation pane in the shaft and forget about ward and
> expensive bacteria.


Or just make sure your walls are covered in ivy! Colleges must be a
bitch to break into! ;>

Meph
Message no. 14
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Gurth)
Subject: Astral Security.
Date: Wed Jan 30 05:55:09 2002
According to Will, on Tue, 29 Jan 2002 the word on the street was...

> What about vegetation ? If thick weed blocks astral, perhaps we could
> install a sliding vegetation pane in the shaft and forget about ward and
> expensive bacteria.

Back under SR1 and SR2 rules, _any_ living thing blocked astral movement
(this was later refined to "any living thing large enough to notice" so you
wouldn't get stopped by bacteria floating in the air) so the best defense
against astral characters was to grow plants over your building.

In SR3, that was changed so only astrally-active things block astral
movement. IOW, you now need dual-natured plants to secure a building. In
SR1/2 these were a problem because you could ground spells out through them
(that is, cast from the astral into the physical plane) so such plants
would be an unacceptable security risk, but as grounding was removed in
SR3, it's no longer a problem.

If you want to prevent magicians from coming down the elevator shaft, why
not just put a ward in the machinery room on the roof? Or if you like
plants, grow dual-natured grass on the whole roof?

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
That's the way that I can't win.
-> NAGEE Editor * ShadowRN GridSec * Triangle Virtuoso <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://plastic.dumpshock.com <-

GC3.12: GAT/! d- s:- !a>? C++@ UL+ P(+) L++ E W--(++) N o? K w(--) O
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Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 15
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Damion Milliken)
Subject: Astral Security.
Date: Wed Jan 30 08:00:01 2002
Christian Casavant writes:

> In present day, one of the largest status symbols in the corporate world
> in the penthouse office with a sublime view of...well, whatever you want.

I don't really see this changing all that much by 2060, either. Overpaid
corporate executives will still have the same massive selfish egos as they
currently do. So I would imagine that the situation would not be "oh, living
up here is really risky, I'd better move", but rather "oh, living up here is
really risky, I'd better hire good security". So the market for security
would just increase and diverge to cover magical aspects, too.

> How many peeps run their worlds where the chief executives of the
> megacorps have their offices underground, or do GMs keep their VIPs high
> up in the air so they can survey their mighty empires?

Yep, I do. All the more opportunities for shadowruns, then :-).

--
Damion Milliken University of Wollongong
Unofficial Shadowrun Guru E-mail: dam01@***.edu.au
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e++>++++$ h- r++>+++ y->+++
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
Message no. 16
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Will)
Subject: Astral Security.
Date: Wed Jan 30 12:40:01 2002
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gurth" <Gurth@******.nl>


> According to Will, on Tue, 29 Jan 2002 the word on the street was...
>
> > What about vegetation ? If thick weed blocks astral, perhaps we could
> > install a sliding vegetation pane in the shaft and forget about ward and
> > expensive bacteria.
>
>
> In SR3, that was changed so only astrally-active things block astral
> movement. IOW, you now need dual-natured plants to secure a building. In
> SR1/2 these were a problem because you could ground spells out through
them
> (that is, cast from the astral into the physical plane) so such plants
> would be an unacceptable security risk, but as grounding was removed in
> SR3, it's no longer a problem.


Oh, i knew i should have read that twice...

Will,
another SR3 newbie
Message no. 17
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Shiro BsquLadat)
Subject: Astral Security.
Date: Thu Jan 31 17:00:03 2002
Anyway all CEO and high security locations have at
least a force 12 ward so you can imagine that this
route is out for the players.Also who needs astral
bacteria and the like when it is so easy for a mage to
hope on some drugs to keep him awake (I believe there
is one at M&M) call a couple off force 8 elementals or
a few ally/free spirits and have that force 24 ward
just in place!
Another trick I like to play on my power-hungry
players is have two wards, one right behind the
other.The forst one is an alarm barrier, a small one
and the second a high force one.When they check the
place they see only the first and figure thats it.When
they break it the alarm goes off and then they fall on
the second one (I like to use force 14 for the second
one)and you can guess what happens.
As they say, no plan survives contact with the enemy!
Of course I use that one only on high level
installations (can you say teocalli?)!
Just my thoughts!

====-It didn't look so big in paper!!!!
-Ideas grow,Shiro.Sometimes bigger than life!

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