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Message no. 1
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: astral space question (fwd)
Date: Fri, 27 Oct 1995 11:34:41 +0100
This got asked to me privately but I thought I'd post it here

----
If someone is astral what do magicians look like? Can they tell they are
magicians? Can they affect non magicians while in astral? I know spell
locks and such light up.
----

Just one request from my side: please don't turn this into a Grounding
Spells debate, OK? I've sort of had enough of that for a while...

--
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Message no. 2
From: Mark Steedman <RSMS@******.EEE.RGU.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: astral space question (fwd)
Date: Fri, 27 Oct 1995 13:34:55 GMT
> This got asked to me privately but I thought I'd post it here
>
> ----
> If someone is astral what do magicians look like?
according to the book an idealised self image, ie take your meat body
and make it a bit closer to 'perfection' of form.

They can then add any cloathing etc they like but its all just
appearance.

There is also the picture 'an encounter in astral space' in the
Grimoire.

> Can they tell they are magicians?
i hope so.

> Can they affect non magicians while in astral?
only if the mundanes on the astral as well [possible but rather rare]
if a suitable bridge exists to the physical.
Ask your GM or FASA for an answer to that one, everyone seems to have
different ideas.

> I know spell locks and such light up.
Yep
people are certainly plenty visible as are spirits, terrain really
depends, if its alive i think so but there is no reason for the
astral image of a concrete wall to shed its own light on the astral.

Mark
Message no. 3
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@***.NEU.EDU>
Subject: Re: astral space question (fwd)
Date: Fri, 27 Oct 1995 10:28:44 -0400
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>>>>> "G" == Gurth <gurth@******.NL> writes:

G> If someone is astral what do magicians look like?

Normally, any astrally projecting being appears as their idealized
self-image.

G> Can they tell they are magicians?

Normally, yes. The Masking metamagical discipline will allow a magician
to disguise their aura, though, to appear as almost anything they want,
even a non-magician.

G> Can they affect non magicians while in astral?

No. A purely astral entity such as a projecting magician cannot affect a
purely physical entity or thing. Only astral and dual-natured entitites
(things or creatures that have presences in both the physical and
etherial planes) can be affected.

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Rat <ratinox@***.neu.edu> \ Do not use Happy Fun Ball on concrete.
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Message no. 4
From: "St. Jean, Ricky" <stjeanr@*******.CANADOREC.ON.CA>
Subject: Re: astral space question (fwd)
Date: Mon, 30 Oct 1995 09:30:00 PST
G> If someone is astral what do magicians look like?
There is a set of books by melanie rawn, the first one is called dragon
prince. in her books she descibes a person's colours (aura) as being like
gemstones backlit by light. one person's aura would be emeralds, rubies and
sapphires etc. in the book a person could be contacted by anyone who was of
the blood and knew the person's colours. ( the book provides excellent
material upon auras and aural readings.



Ricky
"It's not a question of being paranoid, the question
is are you paranoid enough"
-strange days
<<<<<stjeanr@*******.CANADORE.ON.CA>>>>>
Message no. 5
From: Luke Kendall <luke@********.canon.oz.au>
Subject: Re: astral space question (fwd)
Date: Thu, 23 Nov 95 09:14:13 +1100
G> If someone is astral what do magicians look like?

About a month ago, Ricky St. Jean wrote:

> There is a set of books by melanie rawn, the first one is called dragon
> prince. in her books she descibes a person's colours (aura) as being like
> gemstones backlit by light. one person's aura would be emeralds, rubies and
> sapphires etc. in the book a person could be contacted by anyone who was of
> the blood and knew the person's colours. ( the book provides excellent
> material upon auras and aural readings.

I confess that it really irritates me the way people opt for what seems like
the lazy way out, when describing astral space and auras. I mean, I can
forgive people for saying things like `what you see in astral space' or
`take a look' (only a few pedants would always say `assense' for the new
sensory experience) - but when people start talking about colours and such ...

Although later FASA material often seems to fall into the very same trap,
I suppose I'm enough of a pedant to still want to get it right.

As some people may remember, I object to the whole idea of being able to see
objects by physical light on the astral plane. But leaving that aside,
if you saw colours on astral space (and so, could say things like `green
equals health', `red = violent emotion' or whatever) - then mages would
get extraordinarily confused in amusement arcades, fun fairs, discotheques
and so on, wouldn't they?

And if the mage is seeing visible light in astral space, and it's coloured -
then why can't mundane people see the same coloured light? Doesn't anyone
else see the weird logical inconsistencies that this would cause?

I still prefer to `view' :-) astral space as a place where truth and emotion
are directly perceived. You assense rage (and because you're human and
just a little lazy, you say to your mundane friends `I _see_ anger'); you
assense terrible anguish (and say `She _looks_ very distressed').

The whole point is that words for the normal senses don't really apply.
They're being used to try to describe a sensory experience which non-mages
just don't have any way to really grasp. It would be like trying to
explain sight to a person blind from birth.

Ah well. Just my 2 cents.

Oh, and as usual, Stainless Steel Rat's posting covered the rules aspects
very nicely, if that was the real thrust of Gurth's friend's question.

luke
Message no. 6
From: Robert Watkins <robertdw@*******.com.au>
Subject: Re: astral space question (fwd)
Date: Thu, 23 Nov 1995 21:18:17 +1100 (EST)
>> There is a set of books by melanie rawn, the first one is called dragon
>> prince. in her books she descibes a person's colours (aura) as being like
>> gemstones backlit by light. one person's aura would be emeralds, rubies and
>> sapphires etc. in the book a person could be contacted by anyone who was of
>> the blood and knew the person's colours. ( the book provides excellent
>> material upon auras and aural readings.
>
>I confess that it really irritates me the way people opt for what seems like
>the lazy way out, when describing astral space and auras. I mean, I can
>forgive people for saying things like `what you see in astral space' or
>`take a look' (only a few pedants would always say `assense' for the new
>sensory experience) - but when people start talking about colours and such
>...
>
>Although later FASA material often seems to fall into the very same trap,
>I suppose I'm enough of a pedant to still want to get it right.
>

Hold it... Assessing, in SR at least, _is_ a visually oriented
experience. Now, people see _colours_, so naturally, when they compare
the Astral plane to the mundane, they talk about colours.

Remember, the brain has evolved with vision, but even in SR, magic's only
around half the time, and only a small percentage of people get access to
the Astral. So, it's fairly logical that the mind would interpret astral
input as vision. Further more, _language_ has evolved with vision. How
can we describe that which we lack words for? What's the colour of light
in the radio band of the EM spectrum? Vision, smell, and touch are what
our metaphors tend to be based around.

>As some people may remember, I object to the whole idea of being able to see
>objects by physical light on the astral plane. But leaving that aside,
>if you saw colours on astral space (and so, could say things like `green
>equals health', `red = violent emotion' or whatever) - then mages would
>get extraordinarily confused in amusement arcades, fun fairs, discotheques
>and so on, wouldn't they?
>
What about Thermo? That translates into visual input... _With_ colours.
About the best you could describe it as is "red, in the physical world,
and green in the astral", if you want colours. *shrug*

>The whole point is that words for the normal senses don't really apply.
>They're being used to try to describe a sensory experience which non-mages
>just don't have any way to really grasp. It would be like trying to
>explain sight to a person blind from birth.

Not necessarily... maybe just like trying to describe the colours south
of infra-red... but yeah, it's hard. Hey, you use what you've got.
Message no. 7
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@***.neu.edu>
Subject: Re: astral space question (fwd)
Date: Thu, 23 Nov 1995 10:24:33 -0500
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>>>>> "RW" == Robert Watkins <robertdw@*******.com.au>
writes:

RW> Hold it... Assessing, in SR at least, _is_ a visually oriented
RW> experience. Now, people see _colours_, so naturally, when they
RW> compare the Astral plane to the mundane, they talk about colours.

No, it isn't. The use of the visual analogue is to make it easier for
all us non-magicians to understand. The "normal" five senses have no
meaning in astral space; an astrally active entity relies entirely on
his "sixth sense".

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