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Message no. 1
From: honken101@********.net (Fredrik Holmqvist)
Subject: A tiny lil Domain question.
Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 13:53:31 +0200
How do you treat Hearth domain in your game? In the same way that some
nature domains can overlap, would you allow city domain and hearth domain
to overlap?

/Honken
Message no. 2
From: tjlanza@************.com (Timothy J. Lanza)
Subject: A tiny lil Domain question.
Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 13:16:02 -0400
At 07:53 AM 5/26/2004, Fredrik Holmqvist wrote:
>How do you treat Hearth domain in your game? In the same way that some
>nature domains can overlap, would you allow city domain and hearth domain
>to overlap?

The domain overlap is something like a forested mountainside during a
storm. You are in all three domains at once.

Hearth domain is the interiors of buildings. City domain is generally
streets and alleys. The only possible overlap I see might be sewer systems
- they're definitely part of what makes the city work, but they're also
enclosed structures.

--
Timothy J. Lanza
"When we can't dream any longer, we die." - Emma Goldman
Message no. 3
From: gurth@******.nl (Gurth)
Subject: A tiny lil Domain question.
Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 19:47:34 +0200
According to Fredrik Holmqvist, on Wednesday 26 May 2004 13:53 the word on
the street was...

> How do you treat Hearth domain in your game? In the same way that some
> nature domains can overlap, would you allow city domain and hearth
> domain to overlap?

No; as soon as you step into an occupied building (that's my
interpretation, anyway -- and "occupied" here means that someone currently
lives in it, not that there needs to be anyone inside ATM; likewise, the
PCs stepping into an otherwise empty building does not make it occupied),
it's the domain of a heart spirit, and the city spirit's domain stops at
the door. Think of the vampires in Buffy, who run into an invisible wall
when they want to step into a house uninvited.

--
Gurth@******.nl - Stone Age: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
... in real life, which was styled after the film.
-> Probably NAGEE Editor * ShadowRN GridSec * Triangle Virtuoso <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://plastic.dumpshock.com <-

GC3.12: GAT/! d- s:- !a>? C++(---) UL+ P(+) L++ E W--(++) N o? K w(--)
O V? PS+ PE@ Y PGP- t- 5++ X(+) R+++$ tv+(++) b++@ DI- D+ G+ e h! !r y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 4
From: honken101@********.net (Fredrik Holmqvist)
Subject: A tiny lil Domain question.
Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 21:22:09 +0200
At 19:47 2004-05-26, you wrote:
>No; as soon as you step into an occupied building (that's my
>interpretation, anyway -- and "occupied" here means that someone currently
>lives in it, not that there needs to be anyone inside ATM; likewise, the
>PCs stepping into an otherwise empty building does not make it occupied),
>it's the domain of a heart spirit, and the city spirit's domain stops at
>the door. Think of the vampires in Buffy, who run into an invisible wall
>when they want to step into a house uninvited.

Okey, then here is a follow up question. Would "occupied" mean any building
frequented by human souls, or do people actually have to live there? And
what would the hollow houses where squatters live be counted as?

/Honken
Message no. 5
From: tjlanza@************.com (Timothy J. Lanza)
Subject: A tiny lil Domain question.
Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 15:41:12 -0400
At 03:22 PM 5/26/2004, Fredrik Holmqvist wrote:
>At 19:47 2004-05-26, you wrote:
>>No; as soon as you step into an occupied building (that's my
>>interpretation, anyway -- and "occupied" here means that someone
currently
>>lives in it, not that there needs to be anyone inside ATM; likewise, the
>>PCs stepping into an otherwise empty building does not make it occupied),
>>it's the domain of a heart spirit, and the city spirit's domain stops at
>>the door. Think of the vampires in Buffy, who run into an invisible wall
>>when they want to step into a house uninvited.

Basing it on the above definition...

>Okey, then here is a follow up question. Would "occupied" mean any
>building frequented by human souls,

...I would say yes. I'd extend the definition of "lived" to include places
where people work, too.

> or do people actually have to live there? And what would the hollow
> houses where squatters live be counted as?

Absolutely. Of course, depending on the conditions, it maybe a /toxic/
hearth domain. >:)

--
Timothy J. Lanza
"When we can't dream any longer, we die." - Emma Goldman
Message no. 6
From: pixelonpicnic@*******.com (Niels Sønderborg)
Subject: A tiny lil Domain question.
Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 08:15:44 +0200
Though the hearth spirits of corporate buildings often seem to be on the
count of Toxic, driven there by the sterile surroundings

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Message no. 7
From: msde_shadowrn@*****.com (msde ShadowRN)
Subject: A tiny lil Domain question.
Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 23:46:18 -0700 (PDT)
> From: shadowrn-bounces@*****.dumpshock.com
> Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2004 10:48 AM
> Subject: Re: A tiny lil Domain question.
>
>
> According to Fredrik Holmqvist, on Wednesday 26 May
2004
> 13:53 the word on
> the street was...
>
> > How do you treat Hearth domain in your game? In
the same
> way that some
> > nature domains can overlap, would you allow city
domain and hearth
> > domain to overlap?
>
> No; as soon as you step into an occupied building
(that's my
> interpretation, anyway -- and "occupied" here means
that
> someone currently
> lives in it, not that there needs to be anyone
inside ATM;
> likewise, the
> PCs stepping into an otherwise empty building does
not make
> it occupied),
> it's the domain of a heart spirit, and the city
spirit's
> domain stops at
> the door. Think of the vampires in Buffy, who run
into an
> invisible wall
> when they want to step into a house uninvited.

Personally, I always felt there was some overlap.
Anything outside of a
door, such as a front porch or steps leading to the
door, I would
consider both hearth and city.

Mark

PS - Thanks to YahooPOPs, I'm able to subscribe to
this list again
without messing up an account. I was last here maybe
4 years ago as
msde+@******.cmu.edu





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Message no. 8
From: gurth@******.nl (Gurth)
Subject: A tiny lil Domain question.
Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 10:40:12 +0200
According to Fredrik Holmqvist, on Wednesday 26 May 2004 21:22 the word on
the street was...

> Okey, then here is a follow up question. Would "occupied" mean any
> building frequented by human souls, or do people actually have to live
> there? And what would the hollow houses where squatters live be counted
> as?

Since the definition of hearth spirits has always been a bit vague, I
normally don't put them into offices and similar workplaces. I consider
them to be the spirits of _inhabited_ places, not just any building that
people frequent -- there's no hearth spirit in a garden shed, for example,
unless someone has made a home there.

As with a lot of magic stuff, I find this sort of thing is easiest to
resolve by going with your first thoughts on the subject, or your basic
feelings about it. If people would consider it a house, then it's going to
have a hearth spirit, IMHO -- unless it's been empty for a while, of
course.

--
Gurth@******.nl - Stone Age: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
... in real life, which was styled after the film.
-> Probably NAGEE Editor * ShadowRN GridSec * Triangle Virtuoso <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://plastic.dumpshock.com <-

GC3.12: GAT/! d- s:- !a>? C++(---) UL+ P(+) L++ E W--(++) N o? K w(--)
O V? PS+ PE@ Y PGP- t- 5++ X(+) R+++$ tv+(++) b++@ DI- D+ G+ e h! !r y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 9
From: honken101@********.net (Fredrik Holmqvist)
Subject: A tiny lil Domain question.
Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 13:36:09 +0200
At 10:40 2004-05-27, you wrote:
>According to Fredrik Holmqvist, on Wednesday 26 May 2004 21:22 the word on
>the street was...
>
> > Okey, then here is a follow up question. Would "occupied" mean any
> > building frequented by human souls, or do people actually have to live
> > there? And what would the hollow houses where squatters live be counted
> > as?
>
>Since the definition of hearth spirits has always been a bit vague, I
>normally don't put them into offices and similar workplaces. I consider
>them to be the spirits of _inhabited_ places, not just any building that
>people frequent -- there's no hearth spirit in a garden shed, for example,
>unless someone has made a home there.

So what would you throw into office buildings and stuff?


>As with a lot of magic stuff, I find this sort of thing is easiest to
>resolve by going with your first thoughts on the subject, or your basic
>feelings about it. If people would consider it a house, then it's going to
>have a hearth spirit, IMHO -- unless it's been empty for a while, of
>course.

What about empty houses occupied by squatters?

/Honken
Message no. 10
From: graht1@*******.com (David Buehrer)
Subject: A tiny lil Domain question.
Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 07:41:16 -0600
>From: msde ShadowRN <msde_shadowrn@*****.com>
>
>PS - Thanks to YahooPOPs, I'm able to subscribe to
>this list again
>without messing up an account. I was last here maybe
>4 years ago as
>msde+@******.cmu.edu

Welcome back :)

-Graht

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Message no. 11
From: shane@**************.freeserve.co.uk (Shane Mclean)
Subject: A tiny lil Domain question.
Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 18:21:32 +0100
From: "Fredrik Holmqvist" <honken101@********.net>
> What about empty houses occupied by squatters?

Ah, but that isn't an empty house. Making a home in not about ownership, but
intent and feeling.


Shane
Message no. 12
From: loneeagle@********.co.uk (Lone Eagle)
Subject: A tiny lil Domain question.
Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 19:27:12 +0100
At 06:16 PM 5/26/2004, Timothy J. Lanza wrote:
>>How do you treat Hearth domain in your game? In the same way that some
>>nature domains can overlap, would you allow city domain and hearth domain
>>to overlap?
><Snip>
>Hearth domain is the interiors of buildings. City domain is generally
>streets and alleys. The only possible overlap I see might be sewer systems
>- they're definitely part of what makes the city work, but they're also
>enclosed structures.

How about Bars, Municipal buildings, Malls etc. Places which might be
considered a second home to some but are also "open to the city".
It depends predominantly on how the domains are defined by the spirits I guess.


--
Lone Eagle
"Hold up lads, I got an idea."

www.wyrmtalk.co.uk - Please be patient, this site is under construction

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s+(+++) GM+++(-) A GS+(-) h++ LA+++ CG--- F c+
Message no. 13
From: stevet78@*****.com (Steve Thompson)
Subject: A tiny lil Domain question.
Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 12:47:11 -0700 (PDT)
--- Shane Mclean
<shane@**************.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
> From: "Fredrik Holmqvist" <honken101@********.net>
> > What about empty houses occupied by squatters?
>
> Ah, but that isn't an empty house. Making a home in
> not about ownership, but
> intent and feeling.
>
>
> Shane
>
>

What about a van that someone is sleeping in?

I've hit this particular problem a couple of times.
Spirit Domains and all. Generally speaking, I lay
down what I think at the time as GM and we move on.
That's what the GM is there for, to make
interpretations for his or her own game.

In my own game.... Office Buildings are City Spirits.
Sometimes I'll have a smaller Hearth Spirit in a
small basement where the janitor sleeps, or in some
forgotten doorway that some squatters frequent.

I forget the circumstances, but I recall a shaman with
bonuses to Hearth Spirits (I think) spent the night in
the rigger's van and then tried to summon a Hearth
Spirit inside it. "No." At least not in my game.

But if it was a Winebago, sure. If it was a Ford
Americar parked on the side of the road, but some
squatter had been using it for a couple of months as a
home as evidenced by a sleeping bag in the backseat
and a whole lotta ZippyChips bags on the floorboards,
sure.

Just up to the GM really... as are a lot of things.




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Message no. 14
From: marc.renouf@******.com (Renouf, Marc A)
Subject: A tiny lil Domain question.
Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 16:13:15 -0400
This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand
this format, some or all of this message may not be legible.

---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment
> -----Original Message-----
> From: stevet78@*****.com [mailto:stevet78@*****.com]
> Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2004 3:47 PM
>
> What about a van that someone is sleeping in?

It is for this reason that I've incorporated a new type of spirit in
my campaign - vehicle spirits. For most vehicles, the associated spirits
are gear gremlins and piston monkeys. In larger vehicles (semis, vans, and
ships) they tend to be more sophisticated. Vehicles spirits have some of
the typical spirit powers (Conceal, Accident, Confusion, Guard, etc), but as
their domain only extends within the vehicle itself, they are very limited.
Of all the powers they have, my players find Conceal the most useful,
usually when moving contraband. It's amazing what can get lodged in a seat
cushion, no?
In practice, I tend to limit the force of the spirit to be equal to
or less than the Body of the vehicle. This has worked pretty well so far.

Marc

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Message no. 15
From: korishinzo@*****.com (Ice Heart)
Subject: A tiny lil Domain question.
Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 22:02:50 -0700 (PDT)
RE: Vehicle spirits
<snip>
> In practice, I tend to limit the force of the spirit to be equal
> to or less than the Body of the vehicle. This has worked pretty
> well so far.

I like this idea, although I think only very modern totems would
grant any kind of bonus with such spirits. This opens the door to
tamper with Spirits of Man, and specifically with City Spirits, a bit
more. Given how long office buildings have existed, it is not
unreasonable to think that they would have their own spirits,
independant of the city. This could be true for other types of
business as well. As a matter of fact, I have long given
bars/pubs/taverns their own type of Hearth-like spirit, due to the
unique ambience of these sorts of establishments. Hmmm... I feel a
sizable project forming in the back of my mind. Time to populate the
spirit world a bit more diversely I think. Maybe watch 'Spirited
Away' before I get started. :)

I am searching through my old SR files for a rule I think might be
relevant to this thread. Back in the days of SR1, I instituted a
concept of Domain Ratings, which did not do too much, but neatly
governed how the spirit world and spirits functioned when Domains
overlapped. From what I recall, Domain Ratings were based on the
size and the "purity" of the domain. They limited things like the
available Force rating of spirits conjured within them. They also
granted a handy little edge to wise shamans who learned how to
discern and take advantage of them. I will find the file and update
it for SR3.

======Korishinzo
--because rules tampering is just what we do




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Message no. 16
From: gurth@******.nl (Gurth)
Subject: A tiny lil Domain question.
Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 10:41:32 +0200
According to Fredrik Holmqvist, on Thursday 27 May 2004 13:36 the word on
the street was...

> So what would you throw into office buildings and stuff?

City spirits; offices are in a city, but they're not lived-in buildings =>
city domain.

> What about empty houses occupied by squatters?

The answer is in your question: occupied => hearth spirit. Like I said
before, go with your initial impression -- the house may be empty, but
someone _lives_ in it, so IMHO it has a hearth spirit.

--
Gurth@******.nl - Stone Age: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
... in real life, which was styled after the film.
-> Probably NAGEE Editor * ShadowRN GridSec * Triangle Virtuoso <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://plastic.dumpshock.com <-

GC3.12: GAT/! d- s:- !a>? C++(---) UL+ P(+) L++ E W--(++) N o? K w(--)
O V? PS+ PE@ Y PGP- t- 5++ X(+) R+++$ tv+(++) b++@ DI- D+ G+ e h! !r y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 17
From: gurth@******.nl (Gurth)
Subject: A tiny lil Domain question.
Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 10:44:16 +0200
According to Steve Thompson, on Thursday 27 May 2004 21:47 the word on the
street was...

> What about a van that someone is sleeping in?

There are SR sources that state vehicles are whatever domain they're in.
Now, an RV that people live in permanently (rather than just when they're
on vacation) would probably have a hearth spirit, but a van probably
wouldn't, IMHO. This again based on my initial impression, which basically
went: "van != house => no hearth spirit"

--
Gurth@******.nl - Stone Age: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
... in real life, which was styled after the film.
-> Probably NAGEE Editor * ShadowRN GridSec * Triangle Virtuoso <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://plastic.dumpshock.com <-

GC3.12: GAT/! d- s:- !a>? C++(---) UL+ P(+) L++ E W--(++) N o? K w(--)
O V? PS+ PE@ Y PGP- t- 5++ X(+) R+++$ tv+(++) b++@ DI- D+ G+ e h! !r y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 18
From: honken101@********.net (Fredrik Holmqvist)
Subject: A tiny lil Domain question.
Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 22:37:41 +0200
At 10:44 2004-05-28, you wrote:
>According to Steve Thompson, on Thursday 27 May 2004 21:47 the word on the
>street was...
>
> > What about a van that someone is sleeping in?
>
>There are SR sources that state vehicles are whatever domain they're in.
>Now, an RV that people live in permanently (rather than just when they're
>on vacation) would probably have a hearth spirit, but a van probably
>wouldn't, IMHO. This again based on my initial impression, which basically
>went: "van != house => no hearth spirit"

Thank you all for the answers. :)

/Honken

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