Back to the main page

Mailing List Logs for ShadowRN

Message no. 1
From: Wildfire Wildfire@*************.com
Subject: Atmosphere Music(Was: Re: The Shadowrun Music CD)
Date: Wed, 18 Aug 1999 10:40:53 -0400
Manx wrote:

> > It sounds like Vangelis, especially if you cross the Bladerunner
> >soundtrack with the 1492 soundtrack.
>
> Oh. When I think Shadowrun I think music
> like Prodigy, Ministry, Helmet etc.
>

All this talk of atmosphere and such, what do people consider good "mood
music" for games?

My usual background music is my techno/ambiant tracks. Personally, I think
the best atmosphere music is the several hours of mods I have on my
desktop. Load up the "Shadowrun" Winamp list, and hit shuffle/play, keeps
people happy. Also is great to listen to when my mind grinds to a halt
while trying to think up run ideas. Mostly, I like stuff with few or no
words. Other opinions?

Wildfire
Message no. 2
From: runnerpaul@*****.com runnerpaul@*****.com
Subject: Atmosphere Music(Was: Re: The Shadowrun Music CD)
Date: Wed, 18 Aug 1999 15:35:41 -0400 (EDT)
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

At 10:40 AM 8/18/99 -0400, Wildfire wrote:
:All this talk of atmosphere and such, what do people consider good
:"mood music" for games?

Here, let me get my CD collection, it has an abnormally high
percentage of soundtracks.

The ones that I'd consider for gaming purposes:
American Werewolf in Paris (Soundtrack)
X-Files (TV Soundtrack)
X-Files: The Truth and the Light (2nd TV Soundtrack/Score)
X-Files: Fight the Future (Soundtrack)
X-Files: Fight the Future (Score)
The Crow (Score)
The Crow (Soundtrack)
The Crow: City of Angels (Soundtrack)
Blade (Soundtrack)
Blade (Score)
Spawn (Soundtrack)
Lost Highway (Soundtrack)
The Craft (Soundtrack)
The Craft (Score)
Xena: Warrior Princess (TV Soundtrack)
Mortal Kombat (Soundtrack)
Mortal Kombat: More Kombat (2nd Soundtrack)
Mortal Kombat: Annihilation (Soundtrack)
Myst (Video Game Soundtrack)
Riven (Video Game Soundtrack)
Descent (CD Audio Tracks from the PC Game)
MTV's Amp
The Matrix (Soundtrack)
Hackers (Soundtrack)
Hackers^2 (2nd Soundtrack)
Johnny Mnemonic (Soundtrack)
Wild Palms (TV Miniseries Soundtrack)
VR.5 (TV Soundtrack)
Queen: A Kind of Magic
NiN: The Downward Spiral
NiN: Head Like a Hole (CD Single)
NiN: Perfect Drug (CD Single)
Princess Monoke (Anime Soundtrack)
Tenchi the Movie: Tenchi Muyo in Love (Anime Soundtrack)
Assorted Babylon 5 Soundtracks: Vol. 1, Vol. 2, made-for-tv movies
(except Call to Arms, which wasn't composed by Christopher Franke),
and several of the episodic soundtracks.

Now of course, some of these do have to be pre-screened for
game-distracting content beforehand. Some of these soundtracks
contain soundbites from their respective movies, and that can
distract players from the mood the GM is trying to set.


-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: PGPfreeware 6.5.1 for non-commercial use <http://www.pgp.com>;

iQCVAwUBN7sKEqPbvUVI86rNAQGhAwP/TUfZjf3O7fMehsOf53nnuDQdEeUUhQpW
CBXelXQbtM747sF6Cot/yRHr4Nd8gvjlQmRPek1PXgES3/c1YldaQPp01IQ6Iglz
UW653qcN4GCOUql8B5LB8x1yX14ZTa3CEjXacTUPpQ5FRjuE+CLNqFNLKEfj13zd
SraL2nLLrIM=yf
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

--
-- Paul Gettle, #186 of 1000 (RunnerPaul@*****.com)
PGP Fingerprint, Key ID:0x48F3AACD (RSA 1024, created 98/06/26)
C260 94B3 6722 6A25 63F8 0690 9EA2 3344

---------------------------------------------------
Get free personalized email at http://www.iname.com
Message no. 3
From: Dennis Steinmeijer dv8@********.nl
Subject: Atmosphere Music(Was: Re: The Shadowrun Music CD)
Date: Wed, 18 Aug 1999 22:30:02 +0200
> The ones that I'd consider for gaming purposes:
> American Werewolf in Paris (Soundtrack)
> X-Files (TV Soundtrack)
> X-Files: The Truth and the Light (2nd TV Soundtrack/Score)
> X-Files: Fight the Future (Soundtrack)
> X-Files: Fight the Future (Score)
> The Crow (Score)
> The Crow (Soundtrack)
> The Crow: City of Angels (Soundtrack)
> Blade (Soundtrack)
> Blade (Score)
> Spawn (Soundtrack)
> Lost Highway (Soundtrack)
> The Craft (Soundtrack)
> The Craft (Score)
> Xena: Warrior Princess (TV Soundtrack)
> Mortal Kombat (Soundtrack)
> Mortal Kombat: More Kombat (2nd Soundtrack)
> Mortal Kombat: Annihilation (Soundtrack)
> Myst (Video Game Soundtrack)
> Riven (Video Game Soundtrack)
> Descent (CD Audio Tracks from the PC Game)
> MTV's Amp
> The Matrix (Soundtrack)
> Hackers (Soundtrack)
> Hackers^2 (2nd Soundtrack)
> Johnny Mnemonic (Soundtrack)
> Wild Palms (TV Miniseries Soundtrack)
> VR.5 (TV Soundtrack)
> Queen: A Kind of Magic
> NiN: The Downward Spiral
> NiN: Head Like a Hole (CD Single)
> NiN: Perfect Drug (CD Single)
> Princess Monoke (Anime Soundtrack)
> Tenchi the Movie: Tenchi Muyo in Love (Anime Soundtrack)
> Assorted Babylon 5 Soundtracks: Vol. 1, Vol. 2, made-for-tv movies
> (except Call to Arms, which wasn't composed by Christopher Franke),
> and several of the episodic soundtracks.

You have an absolutely kick ass collection of music. I especially like The
Crow Soundtrack (very gritty), Lost Highway (very LOUD), Mortal Kombat (I
love those trendy Chemical Brother wannabees) and I'm listening to the
Matrix Soundtrack right now! Anything done by NiN is nice, although I have
to agree with Wildfire's earlier comment that you should have a lot of music
without speech (or at least as little as possible), it tends to disctract
more.

Dennis

"Abashed the Devil stood,...and felt how awful Goodness is..."
Message no. 4
From: runnerpaul@*****.com runnerpaul@*****.com
Subject: Atmosphere Music(Was: Re: The Shadowrun Music CD)
Date: Wed, 18 Aug 1999 17:40:38 -0400 (EDT)
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

At 10:30 PM 8/18/99 +0200, Dennis Steinmeijer wrote:
:You have an absolutely kick ass collection of music.

Thank you.
Now, this was just the part of my collection that I think would be
good Shadowrun music. I've got some other stuff in there too, like
Reservoir Dogs, Clerks & Mallrats (soundtracks with too many dialogue
tracks to be practical as Shadowrun music), Wedding Singer (too 80s),
Supercop (Too campy), both South Park CDs, some other animation
soundtracks, Cats soundtrack, Mr. What, and some Billy Joel.

:I especially like The Crow Soundtrack (very gritty), Lost Highway
:(very LOUD), Mortal Kombat (I love those trendy Chemical Brother
:wannabees) and I'm listening to the Matrix Soundtrack right now!
:Anything done by NiN is nice, although I have to agree with
:Wildfire's earlier comment that you should have a lot of music
:without speech (or at least as little as possible), it tends to
:disctract more.

Songs with lyrics are good for "Chapter Break" pauses in the flow of
the gaming. You know the times, everyone's downed all the slices of
delivery pizza they were going to order, and the GM is making sure
that he's got all his ducks in a row before moving on to the next big
thing.

And for instrumentals, that's why I've got a lot of "scores" in the
collection and not just "soundtracks". In particular that's what I
use all the Babylon 5 CDs for. I mentioned that I had several of the
Babylon 5 "episodic" CDs; that part of my collection is actually up
to about fourteen discs with three more on order. Each one runs about
a half hour or so, no lyrics, and the occasional voiceover from the
show's opening credits. Since I usually skip the track with the
series theme and the voiceover anyways, this isn't a problem.

They work great as mood music, as composer Christopher Franke paints
a very vivid musical picture. Since each disc is the music from a
particular episode, you have to be a real B5 fanatic to recognize the
source. Sometimes a casual B5 fan will get a feeling of "I've heard
this before", but unless you play the theme music track, they won't
recognize it.

Christopher Franke also did another disc in my collection, the
soundtrack to Tenchi the Movie, and that one has some absolutely
jaw-dropping instrumentals too.

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: PGPfreeware 6.5.1 for non-commercial use <http://www.pgp.com>;

iQCVAwUBN7snvKPbvUVI86rNAQFXgwP+JJTKjPv/3k91mSqOBdASj/gLa6ntyip3
n93cGwSvOiBgFNBFpMPtDcIZK9JBd+/S0aQ77RB2V8htA9fmtLW2KepPD0eTA6+d
8kfep2BgCH2gk3av0hN1Mv/6tw1ScfhaqRYRFysJ6S2v1WD7EzRrPlMRQhtreTDJ
qSstMNG8flc=tgwU
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

--
-- Paul Gettle, #186 of 1000 (RunnerPaul@*****.com)
PGP Fingerprint, Key ID:0x48F3AACD (RSA 1024, created 98/06/26)
C260 94B3 6722 6A25 63F8 0690 9EA2 3344

---------------------------------------------------
Get free personalized email at http://www.iname.com
Message no. 5
From: Patrick Goodman remo@***.net
Subject: Atmosphere Music (Was: Re: The Shadowrun Music CD)
Date: Wed, 18 Aug 1999 21:23:45 -0500
> > Oh. When I think Shadowrun I think music like Prodigy, Ministry,
> > Helmet etc.

Query: Why do people tend to automatically think exclusively of industrial
music when Shadowrun comes up? Some of it's okay, but frankly, it's not
what comes to my mind (especially since most of it sounds the same to me
<shrug>).

> All this talk of atmosphere and such, what do people consider good "mood
> music" for games?

Let's see, mood music for Shadowrun games...well, the recent playlists have
looked similar to this:

Anything by Queen or the various solo projects it spawned
Anything by David Bowie except for LET'S DANCE
Much by Blondie, especially "Maria" from NO EXIT
THE CROW (soundtrack and score)
THE SAINT (soundtrack, and the score once I get my hands on it)
THE MATRIX (soundtrack and score, but especially the score)
Anything by Christopher Franke (especially the score for UNIVERSAL
SOLDIER, though the BABYLON 5 soundtracks are also wonderful)
Some Styx, especially "Double Life" from KILROY WAS HERE
Most of Asia's work, from both the Wetton and Payne eras ("Who Will
Stop the Rain?" is especially good for this sorta thing)
Nine Inch Nails PRETTY HATE MACHINE (and one of the "hidden" singles on
BROKEN, "Physical")
Billy Idol, especially REBEL YELL and CYBERPUNK
STARGATE and INDEPENDENCE DAY scores (David Arnold rocks)
More David Arnold, this time TOMORROW NEVER DIES score
Some of the more recent Metallica, where they've finally gotten the
hang of being musicians

I think I'll be adding some things to it; with 1,000 or so CDs lying around
(by count of titles), there's bound to be some stuff I've missed.

--
(>) Texas 2-Step
El Paso: Never surrender. Never forget. Never forgive.
Message no. 6
From: Patrick Goodman remo@***.net
Subject: Atmosphere Music(Was: Re: The Shadowrun Music CD)
Date: Wed, 18 Aug 1999 21:54:14 -0500
> And for instrumentals, that's why I've got a lot of "scores" in the
> collection and not just "soundtracks". In particular that's what I
> use all the Babylon 5 CDs for.

If you haven't bought the Official Guide to Babylon 5 CD-ROM, you might
wanna go find it; it had a BEST OF BABYLON 5 CD in it as well, with a couple
new tracks on it. Pretty nifty.

Also Franke's UNIVERSAL SOLDIER score is pretty cool; it can be found at
sonicimages.com, if you're interested.

--
(>) Texas 2-Step
El Paso: Never surrender. Never forget. Never forgive.
Message no. 7
From: Mark Fender markf@******.com
Subject: Atmosphere Music (Was: Re: The Shadowrun Music CD)
Date: Thu, 19 Aug 1999 15:11:18 -0500
> > > Oh. When I think Shadowrun I think music like Prodigy, Ministry,
> > > Helmet etc.
>
> Query: Why do people tend to automatically think exclusively of
> industrial
> music when Shadowrun comes up? Some of it's okay, but frankly, it's not
> what comes to my mind (especially since most of it sounds the same to me
> <shrug>).
>
Because industrial music combines traditional values present in music, but
mixes it up with electronics (a SR staple). Now, of course, this definition
could cover techno, too, but the difference is that industrial does it ways
that are often times hard to imagine being musical. That seems a good
comparison to SR, using the technology to commit crimes (whether it be the
crime of breaking into a building or the crime of ruining perfectly good
music).

> > All this talk of atmosphere and such, what do people consider good "mood
> > music" for games?
>
> Let's see, mood music for Shadowrun games...well, the recent playlists
> have
> looked similar to this:
>
> Anything by Queen or the various solo projects it spawned
> Anything by David Bowie except for LET'S DANCE
> Much by Blondie, especially "Maria" from NO EXIT
> THE CROW (soundtrack and score)
> THE SAINT (soundtrack, and the score once I get my hands on it)
> THE MATRIX (soundtrack and score, but especially the score)
> Anything by Christopher Franke (especially the score for UNIVERSAL
> SOLDIER, though the BABYLON 5 soundtracks are also wonderful)
> Some Styx, especially "Double Life" from KILROY WAS HERE
> Most of Asia's work, from both the Wetton and Payne eras ("Who Will
> Stop the Rain?" is especially good for this sorta thing)
> Nine Inch Nails PRETTY HATE MACHINE (and one of the "hidden" singles
> on
> BROKEN, "Physical")
> Billy Idol, especially REBEL YELL and CYBERPUNK
> STARGATE and INDEPENDENCE DAY scores (David Arnold rocks)
> More David Arnold, this time TOMORROW NEVER DIES score
> Some of the more recent Metallica, where they've finally gotten the
> hang of being musicians
>
> I think I'll be adding some things to it; with 1,000 or so CDs lying
> around
> (by count of titles), there's bound to be some stuff I've missed.
>
Musical taste is weird ain't it? Let me ask this: why do you feel '70s music
adds to SR? The soundtracks and scores I can buy - but the '70 prog rock I'm
not seeing.
Message no. 8
From: Aristotle aristotle@********.net
Subject: Atmosphere Music(Was: Re: The Shadowrun Music CD)
Date: Thu, 19 Aug 1999 16:35:56 -0400
>All this talk of atmosphere and such, what do people consider good "mood
>music" for games?

>My usual background music is my techno/ambiant tracks. Personally, I think
>the best atmosphere music is the several hours of mods I have on my
>desktop. Load up the "Shadowrun" Winamp list, and hit shuffle/play, keeps
>people happy. Also is great to listen to when my mind grinds to a halt
>while trying to think up run ideas. Mostly, I like stuff with few or no
>words. Other opinions?

>Wildfire

I have had several ideas about this. If you were going to deal with elves
(either in the Tir or just in an elven bar) I would suggest some celtic
soundtracks. Adventures on the high seas, in the rainforest, and other
natural settings like that can be enhanced with those mood tapes you can
find at any New Age store. For a long astral encounter you may get some
success from another of those mood tapes, the one of thunderstorms and rain
comes to mind. I've even seen a tape at one point filled wih native
American chants/prayers that would be great for NAN encounters.

I have often thought about the sounds and smells that may help my players
better visualize the setting. I have even gone to an aroma therapy shop and
sampled some of their oils in search for smells I might burn in the background.

Frankensense & Murh - Magical Shop, Hermetic's Home.
Earth (yes it smells like dirt) - any subteranean adventure.

Adding my $0.02,
--Aristotle, The Sleeping Op.
Message no. 9
From: Christopher Pratt valen@*******.com
Subject: Atmosphere Music(Was: Re: The Shadowrun Music CD)
Date: Fri, 20 Aug 1999 07:46:02 -0400
----- Original Message -----
From: Aristotle <aristotle@********.net>
To: <shadowrn@*********.org>
Sent: Thursday, August 19, 1999 4:35 PM
Subject: Re: Atmosphere Music(Was: Re: The Shadowrun Music CD)


> >All this talk of atmosphere and such, what do people consider good "mood
> >music" for games?
>
> >My usual background music is my techno/ambiant tracks. Personally, I
think
> >the best atmosphere music is the several hours of mods I have on my
> >desktop. Load up the "Shadowrun" Winamp list, and hit shuffle/play,
keeps
> >people happy. Also is great to listen to when my mind grinds to a halt
> >while trying to think up run ideas. Mostly, I like stuff with few or no
> >words. Other opinions?
>
> >Wildfire
>
> I have had several ideas about this. If you were going to deal with elves
> (either in the Tir or just in an elven bar) I would suggest some celtic
> soundtracks. Adventures on the high seas, in the rainforest, and other
> natural settings like that can be enhanced with those mood tapes you can
> find at any New Age store. For a long astral encounter you may get some
> success from another of those mood tapes, the one of thunderstorms and
rain
> comes to mind. I've even seen a tape at one point filled wih native
> American chants/prayers that would be great for NAN encounters.
>

Ohh...that gives me a neat idea,
Get three of four mp3 tracks, one for each different scene that is happening
at once. For example, the mage is in astral doing his thing, the decker is
doing his thing in the matrix, and the street smas are mixing it up with
corpsec (or GRIDSEC :) ), and as you switch gears through each set of
actions, change the background music...
Cool


>
> Adding my $0.02,
> --Aristotle, The Sleeping Op.


"Windows 95: 32-bit extensions and a graphical shell for a 16-bit patch to
an 8-bit operating system originally coded for a 4-bit microprocessor,
written by a 2-bit company that can't stand for 1 bit of competition." -
Unknown
Christopher Pratt
valen@*******.com
Message no. 10
From: Bruce gyro@********.co.za
Subject: Atmosphere Music (Was: Re: The Shadowrun Music CD)
Date: Fri, 20 Aug 1999 14:00:41 +0200
From: Mark Fender <markf@******.com>
Date: 19 August 1999 10:19
Subject: RE: Atmosphere Music (Was: Re: The Shadowrun Music CD)


>> Query: Why do people tend to automatically think exclusively of
>> industrial
>> music when Shadowrun comes up? Some of it's okay, but frankly,
it's not
>> what comes to my mind (especially since most of it sounds the same
to me
>> <shrug>).

Maybe the genres have been linked since they used a Ministry song
in that crappy "cyberpunk" movie Freejack. :)

>That seems a good
>comparison to SR, using the technology to commit crimes (whether it
be the
>crime of breaking into a building or the crime of ruining perfectly
good
>music).

Ruining? Dont think so. The appeal of industrial is the inhumaness
(sp?)
and machine like quality, IMHO.

>> > All this talk of atmosphere and such, what do people consider
good "mood
>> > music" for games?

<snip Patricks (i think) list O tunes>

>Musical taste is weird ain't it? Let me ask this: why do you feel
'70s music
>adds to SR? The soundtracks and scores I can buy - but the '70 prog
rock I'm
>not seeing.

Agreed. Queen in SR? no sir, i dont like it.

- + - BRUCE <gyro@********.co.za> -

MiX it UP!
Message no. 11
From: runnerpaul@*****.com runnerpaul@*****.com
Subject: Atmosphere Music (Was: Re: The Shadowrun Music CD)
Date: Fri, 20 Aug 1999 10:54:43 -0400 (EDT)
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

At 02:00 PM 8/20/99 +0200, Bruce wrote:
::Musical taste is weird ain't it? Let me ask this: why do you feel
::'70s music adds to SR? The soundtracks and scores I can buy - but
::the '70 prog rock I'm not seeing.
:
:Agreed. Queen in SR? no sir, i dont like it.

So, soundtracks are appropriate for Shadowrun, but you can't see
using songs by Queen?

Alright:
Highlander Soundtrack
(a hard CD to get because it's been out of print for years)

It's got songs on it like "A Kind of Magic", "Who Wants to Live
Forever", "Gimme the Prize", "Don't Loose your Head", and
"Princes of
the Universe". It's true that much of this music is instantly
recognizable to any Highlander fan and also has lyrics, so it'd be
distracting if played at the wrong time during a gaming session. It's
great 'theme music' for mages, physads, and Immortal Elves, however.

Oh wait, the Highlander Soundtrack was done entirely by Queen, wasn't
it? :)

(It's like the 80s band Vangelis. Not particularly the first band
that pops into mind for Shadowrun music, until you remember they did
the Blade Runner Soundtrack)

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: PGPfreeware 6.5.1 for non-commercial use <http://www.pgp.com>;

iQCVAwUBN71rCqPbvUVI86rNAQFDygP+OzTmUXkEUqkXpJ4SkdsxDDR7HTWa5ygD
nLe5qy7Vu9BjmYDp4FKZ4TnDN+nYmuKu/4WItc9+YA9030dzx347zHCl4sYUXgE4
jUZfV+B3QCknWcmmMgaGwFCZQHjfHyb1nK/29AGnkYY+DfbfuzUCzBwbCSguerWZ
dinAymNy70k=LZPM
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

--
-- Paul Gettle, #186 of 1000 (RunnerPaul@*****.com)
PGP Fingerprint, Key ID:0x48F3AACD (RSA 1024, created 98/06/26)
C260 94B3 6722 6A25 63F8 0690 9EA2 3344

---------------------------------------------------
Get free personalized email at http://www.iname.com
Message no. 12
From: Patrick Goodman remo@***.net
Subject: Atmosphere Music (Was: Re: The Shadowrun Music CD)
Date: Fri, 20 Aug 1999 10:24:16 -0500
Mark, this isn't meant to be a flame, or really even as snarky as it's
probably going to come across, but would you also argue with me if I told
you water was wet, fire was hot, and 2+2=4? I'm genuinely curious.

>> Query: Why do people tend to automatically think exclusively of
>> industrial music when Shadowrun comes up? Some of it's okay, but
>> frankly, it's not what comes to my mind (especially since most of
>> it sounds the same to me <shrug>).
>
>Because industrial music combines traditional values present in music,
>but mixes it up with electronics (a SR staple).

There are traditional musical values in industrial? The last really good
industrial I remember hearing was PRETTY HATE MACHINE; there's since been a
little bit of Ministry that's been bearable, but Al and Trent are both
unbearable assholes whose music is starting to sound depressingly similar
to every other piece they do...and it's a pity, since Trent has a beautiful
voice. If he had a little more taste and a little restraint (and a return
to some of the crunchier guitar work from "Head Like a Hole" and the
"Sin"
CD single), he might be more interesting.

>Now, of course, this definition could cover techno, too, but the
>difference is that industrial does it ways that are often times
>hard to imagine being musical.

And this is a positive...how, exactly?

>> Let's see, mood music for Shadowrun games...well, the recent
>> playlists have looked similar to this:

I shouldn't leave all this in, but it might prove useful later.

>> Anything by Queen or the various solo projects it spawned
>> Anything by David Bowie except for LET'S DANCE
>> Much by Blondie, especially "Maria" from NO EXIT
>> THE CROW (soundtrack and score)
>> THE SAINT (soundtrack, and the score once I get my hands on it)
>> THE MATRIX (soundtrack and score, but especially the score)
>> Anything by Christopher Franke (especially the score for UNIVERSAL
>> SOLDIER, though the BABYLON 5 soundtracks are also wonderful)
>> Some Styx, especially "Double Life" from KILROY WAS HERE
>> Most of Asia's work, from both the Wetton and Payne eras ("Who Will
>> Stop the Rain?" is especially good for this sorta thing)
>> Nine Inch Nails PRETTY HATE MACHINE (and one of the "hidden"
singles
>> on BROKEN, "Physical")
>> Billy Idol, especially REBEL YELL and CYBERPUNK
>> STARGATE and INDEPENDENCE DAY scores (David Arnold rocks)
>> More David Arnold, this time TOMORROW NEVER DIES score
>> Some of the more recent Metallica, where they've finally gotten the
>> hang of being musicians
>
>Musical taste is weird ain't it?

There's the understatement of the decade....

>Let me ask this: why do you feel '70s music adds to SR?

<jibe tone="sarcastic>
Musical skill and originality.
</jibe>

More seriously: I almost hate to say it, considering the arguments of the
last few weeks, but...well, atmosphere. I don't like the atmosphere the
purely industrial type of music provides. The music I pick lends to the
atmosphere I want in my games, which is usually just slightly off-kilter.

Bowie, for instance, has always been about 15 years or so ahead of his
time, and his music (especially that from, say, THE MAN WHO SOLD THE WORLD
up to about SCARY MONSTERS [AND SUPER CREEPS]) continues to hold up to this
day, and I think it's just the sort of thing that belongs in the game.
Some of his recent work didn't do much for me, but EARTHLING is solid, and
even scams some industrial licks; you might try it.

Blondie's "Maria" is about Mercurial, I don't care what anybody else says.

There's only one prog band in there, by the way, and that's Asia, and
they're 80s and 90s, not 70s.

Patrick
Message no. 13
From: Patrick Goodman remo@***.net
Subject: Atmosphere Music (Was: Re: The Shadowrun Music CD)
Date: Fri, 20 Aug 1999 11:01:55 -0500
>Ruining? Dont think so. The appeal of industrial is the inhumaness
>(sp?) and machine like quality, IMHO.

You're saying that like it's a good thing.

I don't think that it is.

><snip Patricks (i think) list O tunes>

Yep, that was mine.

>>Musical taste is weird ain't it? Let me ask this: why do you feel
>>'70s music adds to SR? The soundtracks and scores I can buy - but
>>the '70 prog rock I'm not seeing.
>
>Agreed. Queen in SR? no sir, i dont like it.

<Vader localeÞath Star" mode="terse">
I find your lack of taste...disturbing.
</Vader>

Good thing you don't play in my game, isn't it?

Patrick
Message no. 14
From: Mark Fender markf@******.com
Subject: Atmosphere Music (Was: Re: The Shadowrun Music CD)
Date: Fri, 20 Aug 1999 11:24:15 -0500
> >> Query: Why do people tend to automatically think exclusively of
> >> industrial
> >> music when Shadowrun comes up? Some of it's okay, but frankly,
> it's not
> >> what comes to my mind (especially since most of it sounds the same
> to me
> >> <shrug>).
>
> Maybe the genres have been linked since they used a Ministry song
> in that crappy "cyberpunk" movie Freejack. :)
>
> >That seems a good
> >comparison to SR, using the technology to commit crimes (whether it
> be the
> >crime of breaking into a building or the crime of ruining perfectly
> good
> >music).
>
> Ruining? Dont think so. The appeal of industrial is the inhumaness
> (sp?)
> and machine like quality, IMHO.
>
Hey, I'm a huge fan of industrial music. But you gotta' admit it's pretty
discordant. (Although I like your reasoning too)

> >> > All this talk of atmosphere and such, what do people consider
> good "mood
> >> > music" for games?
>
> <snip Patricks (i think) list O tunes>
>
> >Musical taste is weird ain't it? Let me ask this: why do you feel
> '70s music
> >adds to SR? The soundtracks and scores I can buy - but the '70 prog
> rock I'm
> >not seeing.
>
> Agreed. Queen in SR? no sir, i dont like it.
>
And I think if the stereo burst into "Mr. Roboto" as the cybered-up street
sam stepped into the room, I'd start laughing, not get into the game.
Message no. 15
From: Mark Fender markf@******.com
Subject: Atmosphere Music (Was: Re: The Shadowrun Music CD)
Date: Fri, 20 Aug 1999 11:49:37 -0500
> Mark, this isn't meant to be a flame, or really even as snarky as it's
> probably going to come across, but would you also argue with me if I told
> you water was wet, fire was hot, and 2+2=4? I'm genuinely curious.
>
Hmm. I didn't see this as a flame. And no, I wouldn't. I didn't really have
an argumentative tone in this did I? I stated an opinion on why most people
probably think Industrial is SR (of which I may or may not agree with) and a
question.

> >> Query: Why do people tend to automatically think exclusively of
> >> industrial music when Shadowrun comes up? Some of it's okay, but
> >> frankly, it's not what comes to my mind (especially since most of
> >> it sounds the same to me <shrug>).
> >
> >Because industrial music combines traditional values present in music,
> >but mixes it up with electronics (a SR staple).
>
> There are traditional musical values in industrial? The last really good
> industrial I remember hearing was PRETTY HATE MACHINE; there's since been
> a
> little bit of Ministry that's been bearable, but Al and Trent are both
> unbearable assholes whose music is starting to sound depressingly similar
> to every other piece they do...and it's a pity, since Trent has a
> beautiful
> voice. If he had a little more taste and a little restraint (and a return
> to some of the crunchier guitar work from "Head Like a Hole" and the
"Sin"
> CD single), he might be more interesting.
>
Oh boy. This is good stuff. This could fuel my arguments for the next twelve
years (I happen to be rabid about industrial.) They're music is starting to
sound the same, and Ministry's new album sucked so much ass I can't believe
it (Dark Side of the Spoon? Like, how about that spoon down my throat?).
Trent has an excellent voice. Pretty Hate Machine is a great album
(Something I Can Never Have is his greatest song) but his guitar work has
been crunchier on Broken than on Pretty Hate Machine. I'm not sure exactly
what you meant by "crunchier"?

> >Now, of course, this definition could cover techno, too, but the
> >difference is that industrial does it ways that are often times
> >hard to imagine being musical.
>
> And this is a positive...how, exactly?
>
Because one of the greatest draws (to me) of industrial is the utter
discordance of it. Ever try Download? That can't possibly be music! But
somehow it draws me in... (Of course, I'm weird when it comes to music - I
like PJ Harvey just as much as I like industrial. God, that woman can't sing
- and I love it.)

> >> Let's see, mood music for Shadowrun games...well, the recent
> >> playlists have looked similar to this:
>
> I shouldn't leave all this in, but it might prove useful later.
>
> >> Anything by Queen or the various solo projects it spawned
> >> Anything by David Bowie except for LET'S DANCE
> >> Much by Blondie, especially "Maria" from NO EXIT
> >> THE CROW (soundtrack and score)
> >> THE SAINT (soundtrack, and the score once I get my hands on it)
> >> THE MATRIX (soundtrack and score, but especially the score)
> >> Anything by Christopher Franke (especially the score for UNIVERSAL
> >> SOLDIER, though the BABYLON 5 soundtracks are also wonderful)
> >> Some Styx, especially "Double Life" from KILROY WAS HERE
> >> Most of Asia's work, from both the Wetton and Payne eras ("Who
> Will
> >> Stop the Rain?" is especially good for this sorta thing)
> >> Nine Inch Nails PRETTY HATE MACHINE (and one of the "hidden"
> singles
> >> on BROKEN, "Physical")
> >> Billy Idol, especially REBEL YELL and CYBERPUNK
> >> STARGATE and INDEPENDENCE DAY scores (David Arnold rocks)
> >> More David Arnold, this time TOMORROW NEVER DIES score
> >> Some of the more recent Metallica, where they've finally gotten
> the
> >> hang of being musicians
> >
> >Musical taste is weird ain't it?
>
> There's the understatement of the decade....
>
> >Let me ask this: why do you feel '70s music adds to SR?
>
> <jibe tone="sarcastic>
> Musical skill and originality.
> </jibe>
>
And industrial isn't original?

> More seriously: I almost hate to say it, considering the arguments of the
> last few weeks, but...well, atmosphere. I don't like the atmosphere the
> purely industrial type of music provides. The music I pick lends to the
> atmosphere I want in my games, which is usually just slightly off-kilter.
>
> Bowie, for instance, has always been about 15 years or so ahead of his
> time, and his music (especially that from, say, THE MAN WHO SOLD THE WORLD
> up to about SCARY MONSTERS [AND SUPER CREEPS]) continues to hold up to
> this
> day, and I think it's just the sort of thing that belongs in the game.
> Some of his recent work didn't do much for me, but EARTHLING is solid, and
> even scams some industrial licks; you might try it.
>
I've never been able to stomach Bowie, so I'll concede that point to you
(because I also know nothing of his lyrics).

> Blondie's "Maria" is about Mercurial, I don't care what anybody else says.
>
Good point. I'll go with that...

> There's only one prog band in there, by the way, and that's Asia, and
> they're 80s and 90s, not 70s.
>
All right, so I don't know my prog rock bands. Sorry.

To bring this back on topic: I think the discordant tones of industrial help
drive the dystopian view of the future I hold of the future. Plus, have you
ever listened to the lyrics? KMFDM are anarchists, Ministry hate the Church,
and Trent hates himself. This is the sort of viewpoint I see the future
going towards.

But then again, I try to stay away from music with lyrics in it when I run
so that's probably a non-valid point.
Message no. 16
From: IronRaven cyberraven@********.net
Subject: Atmosphere Music (Was: Re: The Shadowrun Music CD)
Date: Fri, 20 Aug 1999 13:37:46 -0400
At 14.00 08-20-99 +0200, you wrote:
>Agreed. Queen in SR? no sir, i dont like it.

I don't know, I think some of it works as personal themes. "Another Bites
the Dust" for a street scamurai, "Who Wants to Live for Ever" for powerful
mages, dragons and IEs (if you have them), "Princes of the Universe" for a
physad, and "We are the Champions" for deckers (particularly when a decker
takes out a combat monster).


Kevin Dole, aka CyberRaven, aka IronRaven, aka Steel Tengu
http://members.xoom.com/iron_raven/
"Once again, we have spat in the face of Death and his second cousin,
Dismemberment."
"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in
your philosophy."
Message no. 17
From: Ereskanti@***.com Ereskanti@***.com
Subject: Atmosphere Music (Was: Re: The Shadowrun Music CD)
Date: Fri, 20 Aug 1999 16:16:32 EDT
In a message dated 8/20/1999 10:25:57 AM US Eastern Standard Time,
remo@***.net writes:

>
> Blondie's "Maria" is about Mercurial, I don't care what anybody else says.
>
> There's only one prog band in there, by the way, and that's Asia, and
> they're 80s and 90s, not 70s.

Okay, I've gotta say this much. Asia a "prog" band? What?

Here's a thought though on the direction of SR if you will. Under the new
SR3 system, where would the Musical Skill fall into/under? I have considered
doing stuff like "Technical" and "Background: Music", but those just
don't
seem to *feel* right if you know what I mean.

-K (who's been collecting Asia since the beginning...LOVED that "Sea Dragon"
they put on the cover)
Message no. 18
From: Patrick Goodman remo@***.net
Subject: Atmosphere Music (Was: Re: The Shadowrun Music CD)
Date: Fri, 20 Aug 1999 15:30:45 -0500
>> There's only one prog band in there, by the way, and that's Asia,
>> and they're 80s and 90s, not 70s.
>
>Okay, I've gotta say this much. Asia a "prog" band? What?

Asia is (or at least was) a progressive rock band. John Wetton was a
veteran of Uriah Heep and King Crimson, Steve Howe and Geoff Downes were
both Yes refugees, and Carl Palmer was a third of the trio who defined prog
rock, Emerson Lake & Palmer. The individual members brought this
sensibility to the music they wrote, continuing the "prog rock" movement
from the 70s and dragging it kicking and screaming into the 80s.

Now it's more of a straight-ahead rock band, but....

>Here's a thought though on the direction of SR if you will. Under the
>new SR3 system, where would the Musical Skill fall into/under?

What I've been fiddling with is splitting the skills, similar to what you
appear to be doing; Singing, Guitar, and Drumming would all be Active
skills, with Background Knowledge skills as per normal. The
Background/Theory skills can also be purchased separately (for instance, I
know a little bit about Guitar Theory in real life, but I can't play one to
save my life).

Most of your guitar-like instruments can be played using Guitar skill;
Specializations would include Acoustic, Electric, Electric Bass, and
12-String Acoustic, for instance. Singing could have specializations like
Chant, Rock, Country, Opera, and Soul.

>I have considered doing stuff like "Technical" and "Background:
>Music", but those just don't seem to *feel* right if you know
>what I mean.

You might not have broken them down sufficiently, IMO.

>-K (who's been collecting Asia since the beginning...LOVED that
>"Sea Dragon" they put on the cover)

You might be interested to know that Roger Dean is still doing most of
their cover art, though not all of it.

Patrick
Message no. 19
From: Starrngr@***.com Starrngr@***.com
Subject: Atmosphere Music (Was: Re: The Shadowrun Music CD)
Date: Fri, 20 Aug 1999 19:57:07 EDT
In a message dated 8/20/99 1:18:20 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
Ereskanti@***.com writes:

> Here's a thought though on the direction of SR if you will. Under the new
> SR3 system, where would the Musical Skill fall into/under? I have
> considered
> doing stuff like "Technical" and "Background: Music", but those
just don't
> seem to *feel* right if you know what I mean.

Except given the present state of things, it would be a couple of three
different skills, such as keyboard, Blown, Strummed, and bowed. They'd have
to be special skills, especially as you would have to default to the Avg of
your quickness and Int. As active skills, they represent how to play that
instrument. as Knowlege skills, the represent knowing about the instrument,
not how to play it. Background Music per sey would be more like knowing
about music in general, and Musical theory and Composing would be similar
Active/Knowlege skills
Message no. 20
From: Mike & Linda Frankl mlfrankl@***.com
Subject: Atmosphere Music (Was: Re: The Shadowrun Music CD)
Date: Fri, 20 Aug 1999 21:26:16 -0400
Ironraven wrote:
> I don't know, I think some of it works as personal themes.
> "Another Bites
> the Dust" for a street scamurai, "Who Wants to Live for Ever" for
powerful
> mages, dragons and IEs (if you have them), "Princes of the Universe" for a
> physad, and "We are the Champions" for deckers (particularly when a decker
> takes out a combat monster).

Don't forget Dragon Attack on "The Game" CD by Queen.

The lyric "got a Dragon on my back" often reminds me of some runners on the
wrong side of Lofwyr or one of the other "greats".

;)

Smilin' Jack
Message no. 21
From: Patrick Goodman remo@***.net
Subject: Atmosphere Music (Was: Re: The Shadowrun Music CD)
Date: Fri, 20 Aug 1999 22:34:40 -0500
I responded to this once this afternoon, but never saw it show up...which
means it should be here in a month or two.

In the meantime, Keith *did* ask me some questions, making me veer, ever so
reluctantly <g>, back onto the topic of Shadowrun. So here we go again....

>Date: Fri, 20 Aug 1999 15:30:45 -0500
>To: shadowrn@*********.org
>From: Patrick Goodman <remo@***.net>
>Subject: Re: Atmosphere Music (Was: Re: The Shadowrun Music CD)

>> There's only one prog band in there, by the way, and that's Asia,
>> and they're 80s and 90s, not 70s.
>
>Okay, I've gotta say this much. Asia a "prog" band? What?

Asia is (or at least was) a progressive rock band. John Wetton was a
veteran of Uriah Heep and King Crimson, Steve Howe and Geoff Downes were
both Yes refugees, and Carl Palmer was a third of the trio who defined prog
rock, Emerson Lake & Palmer. The individual members brought this
sensibility to the music they wrote, continuing the "prog rock" movement
from the 70s and dragging it kicking and screaming into the 80s.

Now it's more of a straight-ahead rock band, but....

>Here's a thought though on the direction of SR if you will. Under the
>new SR3 system, where would the Musical Skill fall into/under?

What I've been fiddling with is splitting the skills, similar to what you
appear to be doing; Singing, Guitar, and Drumming would all be Active
skills, with Background Knowledge skills as per normal. The
Background/Theory skills can also be purchased separately (for instance, I
know a little bit about Guitar Theory in real life, but I can't play one to
save my life).

Most of your guitar-like instruments can be played using Guitar skill;
Specializations would include Acoustic, Electric, Electric Bass, and
12-String Acoustic, for instance. Singing could have specializations like
Chant, Rock, Country, Opera, and Soul.

>I have considered doing stuff like "Technical" and "Background:
>Music", but those just don't seem to *feel* right if you know
>what I mean.

You might not have broken them down sufficiently, IMO.

>-K (who's been collecting Asia since the beginning...LOVED that
>"Sea Dragon" they put on the cover)

You might be interested to know that Roger Dean is still doing most of their
cover art, though not all of it.

--
(>) Texas 2-Step
El Paso: Never surrender. Never forget. Never forgive.
Message no. 22
From: Patrick Goodman remo@***.net
Subject: Atmosphere Music (Was: Re: The Shadowrun Music CD)
Date: Sun, 22 Aug 1999 08:55:57 -0500
> > Mark, this isn't meant to be a flame, or really even as snarky as
> > it's probably going to come across, but would you also argue with
> > me if I told you water was wet, fire was hot, and 2+2=4? I'm
> > genuinely curious.
>
> Hmm. I didn't see this as a flame.

This is good.

> And no, I wouldn't. I didn't really have an argumentative tone in this
> did I?

Not really; it just seems that everything I say, you see, to have a counter
for.

> > >Let me ask this: why do you feel '70s music adds to SR?
> >
> > <jibe tone="sarcastic>
> > Musical skill and originality.
> > </jibe>
>
> And industrial isn't original?

It's, for the most part, not particularly musical. At least from where I
sit.

> To bring this back on topic: I think the discordant tones of industrial
help
> drive the dystopian view of the future I hold of the future.

And I prefer for there to be some kind of ray of hope. I prefer that my
players and their characters make some sort of difference, even a small one,
in the world, or at least in the lives of characters they interact with.
One of the better runs I ever sent the guys on was paid with a couple of
beers and a favor to be repaid later. I don't *like* games where it's all
oppressive and all dismal and the corps are evil monolithic entities and
there's not a single goddamn light anywhere. Play it dark and discordant
and dystopian, and you might as well be playing CYBERPUNK 2020 with a script
right out of <yarf> Gibson's books.

And if the game starts to turn out like that, I'll stop playing.

> Plus, have you ever listened to the lyrics? KMFDM are anarchists, Ministry
> hate the Church, and Trent hates himself. This is the sort of viewpoint I
> see the future going towards.

You're saying all this like it's a good thing. I happen to think it's not.

Remind me never to play in your game; I don't think I'd like it.

--
(>) Texas 2-Step
El Paso: Never surrender. Never forget. Never forgive.
Message no. 23
From: Mark Fender markf@******.com
Subject: Atmosphere Music (Was: Re: The Shadowrun Music CD)
Date: Mon, 23 Aug 1999 16:58:02 -0500
> > > Mark, this isn't meant to be a flame, or really even as snarky as
> > > it's probably going to come across, but would you also argue with
> > > me if I told you water was wet, fire was hot, and 2+2=4? I'm
> > > genuinely curious.
> >
> > Hmm. I didn't see this as a flame.
>
> This is good.
>
> > And no, I wouldn't. I didn't really have an argumentative tone in this
> > did I?
>
> Not really; it just seems that everything I say, you see, to have a
> counter
> for.
>
Apparently we are exact opposite personalities.

> > > >Let me ask this: why do you feel '70s music adds to SR?
> > >
> > > <jibe tone="sarcastic>
> > > Musical skill and originality.
> > > </jibe>
> >
> > And industrial isn't original?
>
> It's, for the most part, not particularly musical. At least from where I
> sit.
>
Well, I think it is. It's hard to make something sound so bad but still be
so good. But that's not really why I think it fits more into SR than Bowie.

> > To bring this back on topic: I think the discordant tones of industrial
> help
> > drive the dystopian view of the future I hold of the future.
>
> And I prefer for there to be some kind of ray of hope. I prefer that my
> players and their characters make some sort of difference, even a small
> one,
> in the world, or at least in the lives of characters they interact with.
> One of the better runs I ever sent the guys on was paid with a couple of
> beers and a favor to be repaid later. I don't *like* games where it's all
> oppressive and all dismal and the corps are evil monolithic entities and
> there's not a single goddamn light anywhere. Play it dark and discordant
> and dystopian, and you might as well be playing CYBERPUNK 2020 with a
> script
> right out of <yarf> Gibson's books.
>
Well, I'm all into the ray of light type deal, but I tend to find the ray of
light looks a lot brighter when you've just experienced 12 hours of the most
depressing drek ever invented. And it looks like we're up to this same
Gibson argument again, so, instead of going over why he is a literary god
and all, I'll just drop it.

> And if the game starts to turn out like that, I'll stop playing.
>
> > Plus, have you ever listened to the lyrics? KMFDM are anarchists,
> Ministry
> > hate the Church, and Trent hates himself. This is the sort of viewpoint
> I
> > see the future going towards.
>
> You're saying all this like it's a good thing. I happen to think it's
> not.
>
Besides anarchy (which is a good thing from my anti-authoritarian
viewpoint), none of these are good. You don't actually think the world will
be a happier place in the future, do you? The history of everything starts
at a peak and falls downward. I just think this trend will continue, and
from reading SR's history, I think they agree with me.

> Remind me never to play in your game; I don't think I'd like it.
>
Nor I yours. Of course, I've pretty much come to the idea that, while you
all are pretty cool people, I wouldn't want to play with any of you. I've
just got a wack style, I guess.

Out of curiosity, what are the predominant themes of your game? I'm just
interested (to see how far apart we really are). Feel free to send that
privately, as I'm pretty sure everyone else is ignoring us anyway.

Further Reading

If you enjoyed reading about Atmosphere Music (Was: Re: The Shadowrun Music CD), you may also be interested in:

Disclaimer

These messages were posted a long time ago on a mailing list far, far away. The copyright to their contents probably lies with the original authors of the individual messages, but since they were published in an electronic forum that anyone could subscribe to, and the logs were available to subscribers and most likely non-subscribers as well, it's felt that re-publishing them here is a kind of public service.

Thwap!