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Message no. 1
From: William Monroe Ashe <wma6617@******.TAMU.EDU>
Subject: Re: attacking paralyzation spell
Date: Mon, 21 Apr 1997 17:34:28 -0500
I apologize if I have missed the point; If the magic user is the target
of the spell, I think that he'd know about it by default, because he have
access to his magic pool for spell defense, or sheilding ... Anyway, as
I see it astral projection may be out (depending on your GM) but
perception should not be a problem. The magician could then just ground
a spell into the paralyze spell (provided he has no movement based
geasa), and boom goes the opposing mage.

just my $0.02

regards

Bill
Message no. 2
From: Loki <daddyjim@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: attacking paralyzation spell
Date: Mon, 21 Apr 1997 18:04:00 -0700
---William Monroe Ashe wrote:
>
> I apologize if I have missed the point; If the magic user is the
target
> of the spell, I think that he'd know about it by default, because he
have
> access to his magic pool for spell defense, or sheilding ...
Anyway, as
> I see it astral projection may be out (depending on your GM) but
> perception should not be a problem. The magician could then just
ground
> a spell into the paralyze spell (provided he has no movement based
> geasa), and boom goes the opposing mage.
>
> just my $0.02
>
> regards
>
> Bill

I don't want to open up the whole can of worms. But you can't ground
through a spell.

===
@>--,--'--- Loki

"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from
magic."
- A. C. Clarke

Poisoned Elves: http://www.primenet.com/~gamemstr/


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Message no. 3
From: MC23 <mc23@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: attacking paralyzation spell
Date: Mon, 21 Apr 1997 22:05:46 -0400
William Monroe Ashe once dared to write,

>I apologize if I have missed the point; If the magic user is the target
>of the spell, I think that he'd know about it by default, because he have
>access to his magic pool for spell defense, or sheilding ... Anyway, as
>I see it astral projection may be out (depending on your GM) but
>perception should not be a problem. The magician could then just ground
>a spell into the paralyze spell (provided he has no movement based
>geasa), and boom goes the opposing mage.

Spells can't attack spells!



<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>

Ancient cultures believed that names held great power, personal names
more so and they were guarded very closely. To protect themselves, they
answered to another name, because if another discovered their real name,
it could be used against them.
History repeats itself.
Welcome to the Digital Age.
I am MC23
Message no. 4
From: Dane Jensen <djensen@*********.COM>
Subject: Re: attacking paralyzation spell
Date: Mon, 21 Apr 1997 19:42:43 -0700
>Spells can't attack spells!

ShatterShield vs Barrier
Message no. 5
From: MC23 <mc23@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: attacking paralyzation spell
Date: Mon, 21 Apr 1997 22:58:42 -0400
Dane Jensen once dared to write,

>>Spells can't attack spells!
>
>ShatterShield vs Barrier

That one spell is more along the lines of a Meta-Spell than a
regular spell. And all it can do is weaken barriers. In SRII (Main book)
in the it clearly states that spells cannot attack spells. Awakenings
features the SOTA in magic with Shattershield, the first and only spell
(at this time) that can affect a specific kind of spell. You still cannot
at this time ground out through a spell.
Now I have no problems with creating Meta-Spells for initiates that
do break these rules. I think they should exist, it's just that they
don't yet.


<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>

Ancient cultures believed that names held great power, personal names
more so and they were guarded very closely. To protect themselves, they
answered to another name, because if another discovered their real name,
it could be used against them.
History repeats itself.
Welcome to the Digital Age.
I am MC23
Message no. 6
From: William Monroe Ashe <wma6617@******.TAMU.EDU>
Subject: Re: attacking paralyzation spell
Date: Mon, 21 Apr 1997 23:10:28 -0500
Can of worms noted...

So, depending on your GM ... grounding through a 'sustained' spell is
possible because a sustained spell has to maintain a constant astral link.
So to avoid the wrath of the others I'll shut up on this now and hide
under by bed untill it all goes away.


Regards

Bill
Message no. 7
From: "MARTIN E. GOTTHARD" <s457033@*******.GU.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: attacking paralyzation spell
Date: Tue, 22 Apr 1997 15:44:19 +1000
> >Spells can't attack spells!
>
> ShatterShield vs Barrier
>
You can't ground through them, as far as I'm concerned. If you could
then the mage would not need to sit there and try and beat it in astral
combat; Just nuke is with a mana missile instead, and if you kil it,
you get the really cool bonus of zapping the casting mage.

No thanks.

It would have to (at the least) be a specific purpose spell, designed as
per the 'magic affecting magic' item.... Feel like designing a spell
called 'manabolt backlash'?

Marty
Message no. 8
From: Georg Greve <greve@*******.HANSE.DE>
Subject: Re: attacking paralyzation spell
Date: Tue, 22 Apr 1997 08:03:27 GMT
William Monroe Ashe (wma6617@******.TAMU.EDU) wrote:
: Can of worms noted...

...and opened. Why the hell did you do this ? *shiver*

: So, depending on your GM ... grounding through a 'sustained' spell is
: possible because a sustained spell has to maintain a constant astral link.

It is not possible because it lacks the physical component. The ONLY
way is to ground through physically present ITEMS. And NO, the mage
does NOT become an item only because he is sustaining the spell.

: So to avoid the wrath of the others I'll shut up on this now and hide
: under by bed untill it all goes away.

Same here. Maybe I should unsubscribe until everything is over... ;-)

Later,
Georg

--
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| "The Clan's are marching 'gainst the law - |
| bagpipers play the tunes of war - death or glory I will find - |
| rebellion on my mind" |
| Grave Digger - "Rebellion" |
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| Georg Greve greve@*******.hanse.de |
| Tel.: +49-40-23809080 http://www.on-line.de/~steffen.lassahn/greve/ |
+------------------------------------------------------------------------+
Message no. 9
From: Gossamer <jrsnyder@********.WISC.EDU>
Subject: Re: attacking paralyzation spell
Date: Tue, 22 Apr 1997 06:20:52 -0500
>> >Spells can't attack spells!
>>
>> ShatterShield vs Barrier
>>
>You can't ground through them, as far as I'm concerned.
>If you could then the mage would not need to sit there
> and try and beat it in astral combat; Just nuke is with
>a mana missile instead, and if you kil it, you get the
>really cool bonus of zapping the casting mage.

Sorry about that, but you need to use a physical spell to
ground out in anycase as per SRII attacking a focus rules.
Am I missing a rules change/adaptation somewhere?

Gossamer
Message no. 10
From: Sascha Pabst <Sascha.Pabst@**********.UNI-OLDENBURG.DE>
Subject: Re: attacking paralyzation spell
Date: Tue, 22 Apr 1997 15:40:56 +0000
On 21 Apr 97 at 19:42, Dane Jensen wrote:
> >Spells can't attack spells!
>
> ShatterShield vs Barrier
SRII, p. 148: "A magician in astral space cannot cast a spell at
another spell, [...]" So Dane is right: On "mundane plane" spells can
attack spells, like a Ram can attack a Physical Barrier.

On 22 Apr 97 at 15:44, MARTIN E. GOTTHARD wrote:
[snip]
> You can't ground through them, as far as I'm concerned. If you could
> then the mage would not need to sit there and try and beat it in
> astral combat; Just nuke is with a mana missile instead, and if you
> kil it, you get the really cool bonus of zapping the casting mage.
But to see the spell (and be able to cast a spell at it) he would have
to project (see above mentioned quote, and SRII, p. 130 "Spell
Targeting" for explanation). This would...

Whoops. Reality interferes, I just checked Awakenings and see this: "To
use the shattershield spell against astral barriers (such as wards or
mana barriers), the spellcaster must be astrally active and able to
assense the barrier when the spell is cast."
Hm. Looks like this is directly contradicting "Spell Targeting" and
"Spells in astral space"... erm...

Sascha
--
+---___---------+----------------------------------------+--------------------+
| / / _______ | Jhary-a-Conel aka Sascha Pabst |'The rich control |
| / /_/ ____/ |Sascha.Pabst@**********.Uni-Oldenburg.de| The Government, |
| \___ __/ | | The Media, |
|==== \_/ ======| *Wearing hats is just a way of life* | And the Law!' |
|LOGOUT FASCISM!| - Me | - Queensryche |
+------------- http://www.informatik.uni-oldenburg.de/~jhary -----------------+
Message no. 11
From: MC23 <mc23@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: attacking paralyzation spell
Date: Tue, 22 Apr 1997 09:55:15 -0400
William Monroe Ashe once dared to write,

>Can of worms noted...
>
>So, depending on your GM ... grounding through a 'sustained' spell is
>possible because a sustained spell has to maintain a constant astral link.
>So to avoid the wrath of the others I'll shut up on this now and hide
>under by bed untill it all goes away.

Argh! It's that grounding issue. Spells cannot attack spells so they
cannot be ground through. Spellcasting cannot be ground through. So why
do people want to think a sustained spell is somehow different? Astral
link fine, but that doesn't make anything dual natured so it can be
grounded through.


<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>

Ancient cultures believed that names held great power, personal names
more so and they were guarded very closely. To protect themselves, they
answered to another name, because if another discovered their real name,
it could be used against them.
History repeats itself.
Welcome to the Digital Age.
I am MC23
Message no. 12
From: TEGTMEBC@******.ACS.MUOHIO.EDU
Subject: Re: attacking paralyzation spell
Date: Tue, 22 Apr 1997 15:43:12 -0500
MC23 proclaimed:
> William Monroe Ashe once dared to write,

> >Can of worms noted...
> >
> >So, depending on your GM ... grounding through a 'sustained' spell is
> >possible because a sustained spell has to maintain a constant astral link.
> >So to avoid the wrath of the others I'll shut up on this now and hide
> >under by bed untill it all goes away.

> Argh! It's that grounding issue. Spells cannot attack spells so they
> cannot be ground through. Spellcasting cannot be ground through. So why
> do people want to think a sustained spell is somehow different? Astral
> link fine, but that doesn't make anything dual natured so it can be
> grounded through.

Isn't this why he said "depending on your GM"? Some GM's may run it so
you can ground through a sustained spell, I seem to remember Rat saying
something of that sort a while back, and I don't remember him changing his
mind. I agree with you that it wouldn't work, but for some reason people just
don't listen. If they want to go around shanging things to work how they want,
they're entitled to, I just wouldn't want to do it.

-The Immortal Mental
Message no. 13
From: Denzil Kruse <dkruse@***.AZ05.BULL.COM>
Subject: Re: attacking paralyzation spell
Date: Tue, 22 Apr 1997 13:01:00 MST
>I apologize if I have missed the point; If the magic user is the target
>of the spell, I think that he'd know about it by default, because he have
>access to his magic pool for spell defense, or sheilding ... Anyway, as
>I see it astral projection may be out (depending on your GM) but
>perception should not be a problem. The magician could then just ground
>a spell into the paralyze spell (provided he has no movement based
>geasa), and boom goes the opposing mage.

What I meant when I mentioned attacking the spell was attacking it in astral
hand-to-hand combat or dispelling it, not sending a spell against it.

Unless the target is astrally active, he wouldn't know about a spell coming
at him until it hit him. And he wouldn't be able to allocate his spell
defense dice to anything unless he declared it on his previous action. And,
I believe the allocation of spell defense dice has a LOS requirement. So, I
don't think you can allocate dice to something in astral space unless you
were astrally active.

Denzil Kruse
d.kruse@****.com

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