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Message no. 1
From: Mark Steedman <RSMS@******.EEE.RGU.AC.UK>
Subject: Atzlan - nasty things comming. and related
Date: Wed, 19 Jul 1995 14:06:01 GMT
A few choice extracts from the Atzlan book (quotes only) on the
subject of what are Atzlan/Aztechnology up to in all those 'temples'
and what is going on. I think this might shed some light on the
answer to the quiery from FASA on 'the enemy in SR' Therefore SPOILER
ALERT, though if you've read the Atzlan book you might as well keep
going.

Page 68

With respect to shadow comments about an Eastern Dragon that landed
on the Aztechnology pyramid in Tenochtitlan.

'Wordsmyth : .. Aura 'blank and blank patches in his aura that
writhed?? That sounds like something of which this person should have
no knowledge.'

Hecate: .. 'but yes, it sounds like corruption'

Big 'D': We are at the heart of the matter.'

And later Harlequin comments that fate has already dragged him into
this, an obvious reference to Harlequins Back.

i more than suspect 'corruption' equates to 'Horror tainted' form
Earthdawn, on a Dragon that should be more than worrying particularly
considering where its landing!!


p93
The 'Tzitzimine' - they believe when the 'Demons of twilight' come out
from wherever they are lurking they will reward those that helped
them come out early.
They note that these 'Tzitzimine' don't need as good a mana level to
stay as to get here, correlation with Harlequins comments on 'the
enemy' in HB and they go on about the bugs being their Harbinger,
well again we know from ED that the astral threats arribe 'Wraith ->
bugs -> Horrors'

on which
'lady of the court: the time is far from right.

Laughing man: you said that not long ago. But i have seen otherwise.'

Again this supports the Horrors are comming as it must be a reference
to HB and him having seen the 'enemy' building thier bridge.

-------------

Overall this strongly supports the guess that Aztechnology are tring
to get the Horrors to arrive (someone even says that factions are
trying to get the 'Tzitzimine' to come out early). However it also
suggests that in the 'official' FASA timeline Harlequin was succesful
at his quest to the bridge (HB) and that the forces working to bring
the Enemy (call them what you like) through have yet to succed and
that we will not see them in quantity in Shadowrun in the near
future, a few could be interesting but certainly not many so this is
good (well my opinion)


Well any comments?? all quotes are from FASA's Atzlan sourcebook for
reference.

Mark
Message no. 2
From: "Brian A. Stewart" <bstewart@***.UUG.ARIZONA.EDU>
Subject: Re: Atzlan - nasty things comming. and related
Date: Wed, 19 Jul 1995 09:09:38 -0700
>A few choice extracts from the Atzlan book (quotes only) on the
>subject of what are Atzlan/Aztechnology up to in all those 'temples'
>and what is going on. I think this might shed some light on the
>answer to the quiery from FASA on 'the enemy in SR' Therefore SPOILER
>ALERT, though if you've read the Atzlan book you might as well keep
>going.
>
>Page 68
>
>With respect to shadow comments about an Eastern Dragon that landed
>on the Aztechnology pyramid in Tenochtitlan.
>
>'Wordsmyth : .. Aura 'blank and blank patches in his aura that
>writhed?? That sounds like something of which this person should have
>no knowledge.'
>
>Hecate: .. 'but yes, it sounds like corruption'
>
>Big 'D': We are at the heart of the matter.'
>
>And later Harlequin comments that fate has already dragged him into
>this, an obvious reference to Harlequins Back.
>
>i more than suspect 'corruption' equates to 'Horror tainted' form
>Earthdawn, on a Dragon that should be more than worrying particularly
>considering where its landing!!
>
>
>p93
>The 'Tzitzimine' - they believe when the 'Demons of twilight' come out
>from wherever they are lurking they will reward those that helped
>them come out early.
>They note that these 'Tzitzimine' don't need as good a mana level to
>stay as to get here, correlation with Harlequins comments on 'the
>enemy' in HB and they go on about the bugs being their Harbinger,
>well again we know from ED that the astral threats arribe 'Wraith ->
>bugs -> Horrors'
>
>on which
>'lady of the court: the time is far from right.
>
>Laughing man: you said that not long ago. But i have seen otherwise.'
>
>Again this supports the Horrors are comming as it must be a reference
>to HB and him having seen the 'enemy' building thier bridge.
>
>-------------
>
>Overall this strongly supports the guess that Aztechnology are tring
>to get the Horrors to arrive (someone even says that factions are
>trying to get the 'Tzitzimine' to come out early). However it also
>suggests that in the 'official' FASA timeline Harlequin was succesful
>at his quest to the bridge (HB) and that the forces working to bring
>the Enemy (call them what you like) through have yet to succed and
>that we will not see them in quantity in Shadowrun in the near
>future, a few could be interesting but certainly not many so this is
>good (well my opinion)
>
>
>Well any comments?? all quotes are from FASA's Atzlan sourcebook for
>reference.
>
>Mark
>
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Blessed are the young,
For they shall inherit the National Debt.

-Herbert Humphrey

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
bstewart@***.uug.arizona.edu
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Message no. 3
From: "Brian A. Stewart" <bstewart@***.UUG.ARIZONA.EDU>
Subject: Re: Atzlan - nasty things comming. and related
Date: Wed, 19 Jul 1995 09:10:58 -0700
>Overall this strongly supports the guess that Aztechnology are tring
>to get the Horrors to arrive (someone even says that factions are
>trying to get the 'Tzitzimine' to come out early). However it also
>suggests that in the 'official' FASA timeline Harlequin was succesful
>at his quest to the bridge (HB) and that the forces working to bring
>the Enemy (call them what you like) through have yet to succed and
>that we will not see them in quantity in Shadowrun in the near
>future, a few could be interesting but certainly not many so this is
>good (well my opinion)
>
>
>Well any comments?? all quotes are from FASA's Atzlan sourcebook for
>reference.
>
>Mark
>

I concur. Your research seems sound. See also the Horrors book from ED. I
also have a question to any and all with thoughts pertaining. FASA seems to
paint a very bleak picture of the "places" out in Astral space. All the
entities that cross in FASA earth (SR2 & ED) are evil horrors, wraiths or
alien bugs of questionable intent. Are there neutral or more positive
entities (I do not mean angelic type beings), but why are all these astral
cross overs 'not so nice'. What about the metaplanes and totems/passions?,
how do they fit in? Does anyone have a reason why (beside cool horror
effects) for a dark other world?

Any and all comments/flames are welcome. Like I have to ask.

Medic 1


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Blessed are the young,
For they shall inherit the National Debt.

-Herbert Humphrey

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
bstewart@***.uug.arizona.edu
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Message no. 4
From: Andrew <wadycki@********.UIUC.EDU>
Subject: Re: Atzlan - nasty things comming. and related
Date: Wed, 19 Jul 1995 14:06:53 -0500
On Wed, 19 Jul 1995, Brian A. Stewart wrote:

> I concur. Your research seems sound. See also the Horrors book from ED. I
> also have a question to any and all with thoughts pertaining. FASA seems to
> paint a very bleak picture of the "places" out in Astral space. All the
> entities that cross in FASA earth (SR2 & ED) are evil horrors, wraiths or
> alien bugs of questionable intent. Are there neutral or more positive
> entities (I do not mean angelic type beings), but why are all these astral
> cross overs 'not so nice'. What about the metaplanes and totems/passions?,
> how do they fit in? Does anyone have a reason why (beside cool horror
> effects) for a dark other world?

There are a good number of nature spirits and elemental critters in the
Paranormal book. They just aren't as big a deal, they aren't out for our
blood.

-Andrew
Message no. 5
From: Sebastian Wiers <seb@***.RIPCO.COM>
Subject: Re: Atzlan - nasty things comming. and related
Date: Thu, 20 Jul 1995 12:23:21 -0500
>
> On Wed, 19 Jul 1995, Brian A. Stewart wrote:
>
> > I concur. Your research seems sound. See also the Horrors book from ED. I
> > also have a question to any and all with thoughts pertaining. FASA seems to
> > paint a very bleak picture of the "places" out in Astral space. All
the
> > entities that cross in FASA earth (SR2 & ED) are evil horrors, wraiths or
> > alien bugs of questionable intent. Are there neutral or more positive
> > entities (I do not mean angelic type beings), but why are all these astral
> > cross overs 'not so nice'. What about the metaplanes and totems/passions?,
> > how do they fit in? Does anyone have a reason why (beside cool horror
> > effects) for a dark other world?
>
> There are a good number of nature spirits and elemental critters in the
> Paranormal book. They just aren't as big a deal, they aren't out for our
> blood.

Yes, The big D is one example of a "good" paranormal. I'm suprised all the
free elemental spirits that occupy Chicagoes lake front don't chose up sides
in the big bug war (well, like humans, I'm sure a lot of them split town.
Hmm, maybe I'll go down to the lake and make some friends. Got karma to
burn!). Also, free nature spirits are natural "goods", or would at least tend
to be horror opposed (if not toxic).
Sebastian
Message no. 6
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: Atzlan - nasty things comming. and related
Date: Fri, 21 Jul 1995 11:15:51 +0200
>Yes, The big D is one example of a "good" paranormal.

Well, all we really know is that he would prefer to spill his guts to
humanity instead of letting them find out himself. Whether that's "good" or
not isn't really an issue, I think. Perhaps he's got his own reasons for
wanting to do so (at least he's got a good reason _not_ to do it -- though a
fireplace would give him a nice view of Quentin Harlech's living room :)

>Also, free nature spirits are natural "goods", or would at least tend
>to be horror opposed (if not toxic).

But would nature spirits be opposed to insect spirits? Probably not, except
maybe Spirits of Man, I think.


Gurth@******.nl - Gurth@***.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
It's tv-speak, Andycam!
GC3.0: GS/AT/! dpu s:- !a>? C+(++) U P L E? W(++) N K- w+ O V? PS+ PE Y
PGP- t(+) 5 X R+++>? tv+(++) b+@ DI? D+ G++ e h! !r(--) y? Unofficial
Shadowrun Guru :)
Message no. 7
From: Mike and Jill Johnson <mnj@******.NET>
Subject: Re: Atzlan - nasty things comming. and related
Date: Sat, 22 Jul 1995 11:07:00 MDT
I just bought a copy of Aztlan yesterday <friday the 20th> and have been
flying through it.

I just have one question. Has anyone figured out who all the "big" players
that are telling the "secrets" in it yet?

I figure these as the following.

The Big 'D' = Dunklezhan
Wordsmyth = Ehran the scribe
The Laughing Man = Harlequin
Lady of the Court = "I can't remember her name but she's big in Tir Nan Og"

But I have no Idea who the following are.

Hecate
Jungle Cat
Umsondo


mnj@******.net
Message no. 8
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: Atzlan - nasty things comming. and related
Date: Sat, 22 Jul 1995 21:59:38 +0200
>I just bought a copy of Aztlan yesterday <friday the 20th>

What year does your calender say it is? :)

>I just have one question. Has anyone figured out who all the "big" players
>that are telling the "secrets" in it yet?

That's what we were discussing at the beginning of the week. I haven't got
the book so I can't really agree or disagree, but from what I remember,
you're pretty much right. Oh, and Jungle Cat is not Striper, we reached that
conclusion as well :)


Gurth@******.nl - Gurth@***.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Wizards never die, they just become metaphysically challenged
GC3.0: GAT/! dpu s:- !a>? C+(++) U P L E? W(++) N K- w+ O V? PS+ PE Y PGP-
t(+) 5 X R+++>$ tv+(++) b+@ DI? D+ G++ e h! !r(--) y? Unofficial Shadowrun
Guru :)
Message no. 9
From: Mike and Jill Johnson <mnj@******.NET>
Subject: Re: Atzlan - nasty things comming. and related
Date: Sat, 22 Jul 1995 19:37:00 MDT
>>I just bought a copy of Aztlan yesterday <friday the 20th>
>
>What year does your calender say it is? :)
>
Oops... boy do I feel foolish now.... I meant to say Friday the 21st....

mnj@******.net
Message no. 10
From: Jason Salem <jsalem@********.NET>
Subject: Re: Atzlan - nasty things comming. and related
Date: Mon, 24 Jul 1995 08:50:42 -0500
>I just bought a copy of Aztlan yesterday <friday the 20th> and have been
>flying through it.
>
>I just have one question. Has anyone figured out who all the "big" players
>that are telling the "secrets" in it yet?
>
>I figure these as the following.
>
>The Big 'D' = Dunklezhan
>Wordsmyth = Ehran the scribe
>The Laughing Man = Harlequin
>Lady of the Court = "I can't remember her name but she's big in Tir Nan Og"
>
>But I have no Idea who the following are.
>
>Hecate
>Jungle Cat
>Umsondo
>
>
>mnj@******.net
>
>

I agree with your first 4... Brane Deigh is the seelie court queen's name BTW.
As for the other 3, I have theories on 2, but I am drawing a blank on Jungle Cat
aside from the fact that he (or she, ?) is from Amazonia.
IMO, Hecate is Jenna Ni'fearra, from Tir Tarngire (AKA the Blood Queen from the
ED sourcebook). I think that Umsondo is the australian aboriginal elf from
Charette's books. The mannerisms seem reminiscent of each other.
I think I've said this before, but it's been a wek to forget the obvious <grin>
jds
Message no. 11
From: John IV <John.Moeller@*.CC.UTAH.EDU>
Subject: Re: Atzlan - nasty things comming. and related
Date: Mon, 24 Jul 1995 18:15:14 -0600
On Sat, 22 Jul 1995, Mike and Jill Johnson wrote:

[delete]
> Hecate
> Jungle Cat
> Umsondo

I know these aren't solid answers, but I think Jungle cat is someone from
Amazonia. I think that Hecate may be a dragon (or perhaps the goddess
[ya never know]), and I don't know who Umsondo is.

John IV <John.Moeller@*.cc.utah.edu>
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Sometimes after an electrical storm I see in 5 dimensions. Why are the
sixty of you looking at me like that?"

--Cornfed, from _Duckman_
Message no. 12
From: "Stephen M. Bugge" <bugge@********.EDU>
Subject: Re: Atzlan - nasty things comming. and related
Date: Mon, 24 Jul 1995 17:18:24 -0700
I just joined this list today, could you please put these names in context
for me?

*-------------------------------------------*
|Stephen M. Bugge|<bugge@********.edu> |
|President, |<buug@***.com> |
|College GOP @ SU|<75764.240@**********.com>|
*-------------------------------------------*


On Mon, 24 Jul 1995, John IV wrote:

> On Sat, 22 Jul 1995, Mike and Jill Johnson wrote:
>
> [delete]
> > Hecate
> > Jungle Cat
> > Umsondo
>
> I know these aren't solid answers, but I think Jungle cat is someone from
> Amazonia. I think that Hecate may be a dragon (or perhaps the goddess
> [ya never know]), and I don't know who Umsondo is.
>
> John IV <John.Moeller@*.cc.utah.edu>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> "Sometimes after an electrical storm I see in 5 dimensions. Why are the
> sixty of you looking at me like that?"
>
> --Cornfed, from _Duckman_
Message no. 13
From: Mike and Jill Johnson <mnj@******.NET>
Subject: Re: Atzlan - nasty things comming. and related
Date: Mon, 24 Jul 1995 19:07:00 MDT
>I agree with your first 4... Brane Deigh is the seelie court queen's name BTW.
>As for the other 3, I have theories on 2, but I am drawing a blank on
Jungle Cat
>aside from the fact that he (or she, ?) is from Amazonia.
>IMO, Hecate is Jenna Ni'fearra, from Tir Tarngire (AKA the Blood Queen from the
>ED sourcebook). I think that Umsondo is the australian aboriginal elf from
>Charette's books. The mannerisms seem reminiscent of each other.
>I think I've said this before, but it's been a wek to forget the obvious <grin>
>jds
>
>
Those make sense to me. I had completly forgotten about the aboriginee elf.
Sorry for bringing it up again. I had avoided it till I bought the book
then forgot and cleaned out my mailbox and had missed everything. But hey
at least I didn't start the FAT thread again :>....

mnj@******.net
Message no. 14
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: Atzlan - nasty things comming. and related
Date: Tue, 25 Jul 1995 11:07:57 +0200
>I just joined this list today, could you please put these names in context
>for me?

>> [delete]
>> > Hecate
>> > Jungle Cat
>> > Umsondo

They're people/creatures who make comments in the Aztlan Sourcebook -- we've
been trying to figure out who they are in the SR game world.


Gurth@******.nl - Gurth@***.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
En ik zeg je weer niet wat ik nu denk dat ik je eigenlijk zeggen wil...
GC3.0: GAT/! dpu s:- !a>? C+(++) U P L E? W(++) N K- w+ O V? PS+ PE Y PGP-
t(+) 5 X R+++>$ tv+(++) b+@ DI? D+ G++ e h! !r(--) y? Unofficial Shadowrun
Guru :)
Message no. 15
From: "Stephen M. Bugge" <bugge@********.EDU>
Subject: Re: Atzlan - nasty things comming. and related
Date: Tue, 25 Jul 1995 09:46:43 -0700
Thanks, for the info, I still need to get hold of the Aztlan book.

*-------------------------------------------*
|Stephen M. Bugge|<bugge@********.edu> |
|President, |<buug@***.com> |
|College GOP @ SU|<75764.240@**********.com>|
*-------------------------------------------*


On Tue, 25 Jul 1995, Gurth wrote:

> >I just joined this list today, could you please put these names in context
> >for me?
>
> >> [delete]
> >> > Hecate
> >> > Jungle Cat
> >> > Umsondo
>
> They're people/creatures who make comments in the Aztlan Sourcebook -- we've
> been trying to figure out who they are in the SR game world.
>
>
> Gurth@******.nl - Gurth@***.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
> En ik zeg je weer niet wat ik nu denk dat ik je eigenlijk zeggen wil...
> GC3.0: GAT/! dpu s:- !a>? C+(++) U P L E? W(++) N K- w+ O V? PS+ PE Y PGP-
> t(+) 5 X R+++>$ tv+(++) b+@ DI? D+ G++ e h! !r(--) y? Unofficial Shadowrun
> Guru :)
Message no. 16
From: "Mattson, Michael" <E2X@*****.WA.GOV>
Subject: Re: Atzlan - nasty things comming. and related
Date: Tue, 25 Jul 1995 10:59:00 PDT
From the past few days we have gathered this information about the
"commenters" in the Aztlan Sourcebook.

The Big 'D' = Dunklezhan
Wordsmyth = Ehran the scribe
The Laughing Man = Harlequin
Lady of the Court = Brane Deigh (The Selee Court)

Hecate = Jenna Ni'fearra, from Tir Tarngire (?)
Jungle Cat = someone from Amazonia (?)
Umsondo = The Australian aboriginal elf from Charette's books (?)

My question is, why are they "colaborating?" What brought them together?

Michael Mattson
e2x@*****.wa.gov
Message no. 17
From: "Brian A. Stewart" <bstewart@***.UUG.ARIZONA.EDU>
Subject: Re: Atzlan - nasty things comming. and related
Date: Tue, 25 Jul 1995 11:09:07 -0700
Michael writes:

>My question is, why are they "colaborating?" What brought them together?
>
Question. Have you read the Atzlan sourcebook? It states in there why,
somewhere near the beginning, it has to do with Big'D'.

Enjoy.
Brian
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Next on Entertaining Today/Tomarrow?Tosometimes:
The movie everyone has been waiting for...
Without a Clue in Tucson
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Staring that blondest of blonds, Nurse Wratchet, with co-stars
I'll Never Tell and Dirty Little Secret.

Stay Tuned for the chill, next, after these messages.
**************************************************************************
"Nurse Wratchet" aka bstewart@***.uug.arizona.edu
**************************************************************************
Message no. 18
From: "Mattson, Michael" <E2X@*****.WA.GOV>
Subject: Re: Atzlan - nasty things comming. and related
Date: Tue, 25 Jul 1995 11:25:00 PDT
Michael writes:

>My question is, why are they "colaborating?" What brought them together?
>

Brian Responds:
> Question. Have you read the Atzlan sourcebook? It states in there why,
> somewhere near the beginning, it has to do with Big'D'.

Yes, I have read it. I'm about half way through. This is probably the most
fascinating Source Book I've read so far.

I guess I missed the explanation, I'll go back.
Message no. 19
From: Jan Christian Albiez <s_albiez@***.UKA.DE>
Subject: Re: Atzlan - nasty things comming. and related
Date: Wed, 26 Jul 1995 11:19:50 +0200
Hoi !
>
> >I agree with your first 4... Brane Deigh is the seelie court queen's name BTW.
> >As for the other 3, I have theories on 2, but I am drawing a blank on
> Jungle Cat
> >aside from the fact that he (or she, ?) is from Amazonia.
> >IMO, Hecate is Jenna Ni'fearra, from Tir Tarngire (AKA the Blood Queen from the
> >ED sourcebook). I think that Umsondo is the australian aboriginal elf from
> >Charette's books. The mannerisms seem reminiscent of each other.
> >I think I've said this before, but it's been a wek to forget the obvious
<grin>

Hecate is not Jenna Ni'fearra, she is definitive an blood elf, but
not J. Ni'fearra. In the discussion abuot the civil war in Atzlan the
question arose, if some countrys support the rebels. On the question
if TT supports the rebels ,Wordsmith aka Ehran the Scribe answered as
if he is the only person in the discussion having knowledeg about the
subject. He couldn't do that if Hecate were J. Ni'fearra, because she
is in the council of the princes.

Umsondo could be the australian Elf, but my tip is somebody from the
Zulu-Nation.

bye
-JAN

--


\|/
(o-o)
==================================oOO=(_)=OOo================================
Jan Christian Albiez | | Anything that can go
Eisenlohrstr. 26 | s_albiez@***.uka.de | wrong, will go wrong
76135 Karlsruhe | Quams on IRC | at the worst possible
G E R M A N Y | TIP#526 | moment (Murphy)
Message no. 20
From: Jason Salem <jsalem@********.NET>
Subject: Re: Atzlan - nasty things comming. and related
Date: Wed, 26 Jul 1995 08:37:25 -0500
>>From the past few days we have gathered this information about the
>"commenters" in the Aztlan Sourcebook.
>
>The Big 'D' = Dunklezhan
>Wordsmyth = Ehran the scribe
>The Laughing Man = Harlequin
>Lady of the Court = Brane Deigh (The Selee Court)
>
>Hecate = Jenna Ni'fearra, from Tir Tarngire (?)
>Jungle Cat = someone from Amazonia (?)
>Umsondo = The Australian aboriginal elf from Charette's books (?)
>
>My question is, why are they "colaborating?" What brought them together?
>
>Michael Mattson
>e2x@*****.wa.gov
>
>
From the text in the book, Dunklezhan brought them together. I don't think
anything else could have <grin>. The return of the Enemy, which they have
all faced before, would be a matter of import. One that warrants their
setting aside their relatively petty (though ancient) bickering. Looks like
they are collaborating cuz big D wants them to be aware that the Problem is
back...
jds
Message no. 21
From: Jason Salem <jsalem@********.NET>
Subject: Re: Atzlan - nasty things comming. and related
Date: Wed, 26 Jul 1995 08:43:16 -0500
>Hecate is not Jenna Ni'fearra, she is definitive an blood elf, but
>not J. Ni'fearra. In the discussion abuot the civil war in Atzlan the
>question arose, if some countrys support the rebels. On the question
>if TT supports the rebels ,Wordsmith aka Ehran the Scribe answered as
>if he is the only person in the discussion having knowledeg about the
>subject. He couldn't do that if Hecate were J. Ni'fearra, because she
>is in the council of the princes.
>

Good point. J. was the only Blood Elf specifically mentioned as having
survived, and from ED was cited as the one who initiated the rite of thorns.
But in reality, how many kings/queens/presidents actually are the ones that
do the grunt work of the magic rituals ;) I had forgotten that she actually
IS on the council of princes, and had been thinking of her as a 'guest' in
TT. Guess a bit-o-rereading wouldn't hurt. It's been a while..

>Umsondo could be the australian Elf, but my tip is somebody from the
>Zulu-Nation.
>

Hmm. Like Jungle Cat, I simply haven't seen enough information on immortals
in that region. So could very well be.

jds
Message no. 22
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: Atzlan - nasty things comming. and related
Date: Wed, 26 Jul 1995 23:03:44 +0200
>My question is, why are they "colaborating?" What brought them together?

Not having seen the Aztlan book, my guess is they've all seen that "the
Azzies" are trying to summon Horrors, and all of them remember what happened
last time they came...


Gurth@******.nl - Gurth@***.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
En ik zeg je weer niet wat ik nu denk dat ik je eigenlijk zeggen wil...
GC3.0: GAT/! dpu s:- !a>? C+(++) U P L E? W(++) N K- w+ O V? PS+ PE Y PGP-
t(+) 5 X R+++>$ tv+(++) b+@ DI? D+ G++ e h! !r(--) y? Unofficial Shadowrun
Guru :)
Message no. 23
From: Mike and Jill Johnson <mnj@******.NET>
Subject: Re: Atzlan - nasty things comming. and related
Date: Sun, 30 Jul 1995 19:53:00 MDT
Well we've hashed around about who is who in relation to the Big D and crew.
But I have yet another question as to the who is who. At the end of the
part where the Big D, Laughing man and Wordsmyth sign off there are 2 unamed
people <deckers> that mention being able to attach the biggies conservation
to the aztlan file. Now who the frag were these 2?

Also I don't know if this has been brought up but, one of the main things I
picked up in the Aztlan SB is that do to the history of the region there are
magical locus<s> <hmmm what is the plural for locus?>. Now I would have to
believe that if this is due to the "rich" magical history of the region then
wouldn't it tend to lead one to beleive that the egyptian area of North
Africa would also be highly magical?

mnj@******.net <I'm the M in the mnj>
Message no. 24
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: Atzlan - nasty things comming. and related
Date: Mon, 31 Jul 1995 10:14:53 +0200
>Also I don't know if this has been brought up but, one of the main things I
>picked up in the Aztlan SB is that do to the history of the region there are
>magical locus<s> <hmmm what is the plural for locus?>.

Probably "loci" I think.

>Now I would have to
>believe that if this is due to the "rich" magical history of the region then
>wouldn't it tend to lead one to beleive that the egyptian area of North
>Africa would also be highly magical?

Nobody's ever said anything about Egypt in SR, AFAIK. We know Israel has
been gassed and Libia has been nuked, but otherwise I don't think there's
info on the Middle East or North Africa. Maybe you're right, and Egypt does
have a higher mana level than the world average...

>mnj@******.net <I'm the M in the mnj>

Yeah, Mike always signs with "mnj@******.net", Jill always with "Jill"
:)


Gurth@******.nl - Gurth@***.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Sponsored by nobody
GC3.0: GAT/! dpu s:- !a>? C+(++) U P L E? W(++) N K- w+ O V? PS+ PE Y PGP-
t(+) 5 X R+++>$ tv+(++) b+@ DI? D+ G++ e h! !r(--) y? Unofficial Shadowrun
Guru :)
Message no. 25
From: Mr Bob Sagittarian <habelmon@********.CS.ADELAIDE.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: Atzlan - nasty things comming. and related
Date: Mon, 31 Jul 1995 18:02:27 +0930
> Nobody's ever said anything about Egypt in SR, AFAIK. We know Israel has
> been gassed and Libia has been nuked, but otherwise I don't think there's
> info on the Middle East or North Africa. Maybe you're right, and Egypt does
> have a higher mana level than the world average...
>

What intrigues me in the Aztlan Sourcebook is the mention of a
Greater Denmark. Don't tell me they got Southern Sweden back,did they?

As for Australia, I have no fears that my hometown ofAdelaide will in
fact be a boring corpzone retirement village. If you were a high-level
corp that was sick of it all, wouldn't you move to the Barossa valley?

What's new pussycat? Woo-ooo-wooh-ooooh-woo-o-oooooh.
--

Bob Sagittarian Odds & Ends
habelmon@********.cs.adelaide.edu.au
stimpy@****.student.adelaide.edu.au
Message no. 26
From: Robert Watkins <bob@**.NTU.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: Atzlan - nasty things comming. and related
Date: Mon, 31 Jul 1995 19:41:14 +0930
Mr Bob Sagittarian wrote:
>
> As for Australia, I have no fears that my hometown ofAdelaide will in
> fact be a boring corpzone retirement village. If you were a high-level
> corp that was sick of it all, wouldn't you move to the Barossa valley?

Definately... OTH, Adelaide already is boring. :)
(*sigh* I can't talk... with the Mana Storms isolating the Centre, Darwin
is either gone, or (more likely) a military camp...)

--
Robert Watkins bob@**.ntu.edu.au
Real Programmers never work 9 to 5. If any real programmers
are around at 9 am, it's because they were up all night.
*** Finger me for my geek code ***
Message no. 27
From: Mark Steedman <RSMS@******.EEE.RGU.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Atzlan - nasty things comming. and related
Date: Mon, 31 Jul 1995 18:22:36 GMT
Mike and Jill Johnson writes

> Well we've hashed around about who is who in relation to the Big D and crew.
> But I have yet another question as to the who is who. At the end of the
> part where the Big D, Laughing man and Wordsmyth sign off there are 2 unamed
> people <deckers> that mention being able to attach the biggies conservation
> to the aztlan file. Now who the frag were these 2?
>
No ideas with any backing.
I suppose it could be a trick by Dunklezahn to get the info out
without getting himself 'mounted' above the fireplace by Harlequin
but i don't think so.

They could be Nexus deckers, Neo Anarchists, or folks like Fastjack,
they probably have the decking skill but the question then becomes
how did they find out where to hack in and when, well unless the have
the big 'D's system compromised and monitor it, but i would have
though Dunklezahn rich enough to have a system proof that sort of
thing. (assuming that is possible against the worlds best deckers of
course :) )

> mnj@******.net <I'm the M in the mnj>
>

Mark
Message no. 28
From: Andrew <wadycki@********.UIUC.EDU>
Subject: Re: Atzlan - nasty things comming. and related
Date: Mon, 31 Jul 1995 15:23:45 -0500
On Sun, 30 Jul 1995, Mike and Jill Johnson wrote:

> Also I don't know if this has been brought up but, one of the main things I
> picked up in the Aztlan SB is that do to the history of the region there are
> magical locus<s> <hmmm what is the plural for locus?>. Now I would have
to
> believe that if this is due to the "rich" magical history of the region
then
> wouldn't it tend to lead one to beleive that the egyptian area of North
> Africa would also be highly magical?

From stuff I read in Astlan and in the book House of Sun. My guess is a
locus is a magical strong point, much like Stonehedge and the other
places with high background counts, but in addition to peaking itself, it
also is connected to another plane, which allows it to be used to draw
even more power off. The problem is of course, you have to be careful to
not draw so much power that you rip a gateway open. It seems the locus
are connected to the horror plane, and have special guardian spirits
protecting it. These spirits will destroy anything that is horror
related, or touched by horrors.
(must of my deduction comes from D saying something about the locus being
our diaster and our savior)

-Andrew
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The true warrior often understands his enemy better than he understands
his friends. A dangerous pitfall if you let understanding lead to
sympathy as it will naturally do when left unguided. -Miles Teg
wadycki@***.cso.uiuc.edu, http://ux1.cso.uiuc.edu/~wadycki
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Message no. 29
From: Mark Steedman <RSMS@******.EEE.RGU.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Atzlan - nasty things comming. and related
Date: Tue, 1 Aug 1995 08:56:29 GMT
Andrew writes

you only appear to have sent this reply to me, reply to list for
other comments.

> On Mon, 31 Jul 1995, Mark Steedman wrote:
>
> > I suppose it could be a trick by Dunklezahn to get the info out
> > without getting himself 'mounted' above the fireplace by Harlequin
> > but i don't think so.
>
> I don't think it would be Dunklezahn, he is in enough trouble as it is.
>
Thats what made me think Dunklezahn would not cross them. But i
wanted to list it as it is (however unlikely) one possiblity.

> > They could be Nexus deckers, Neo Anarchists, or folks like Fastjack,
>
> I would think it would be the Nexus kids, the "Techno Shamans" or
> whatever they are. It would make the most sense. The are the closest to
> the Data Haven and the most likely to have the knowledge and access of
> the meeting and how to get in. The only problem is, how loyal are they,
> unless I was confused, the meeting took place in the Data Haven, or one
> of its systems.
I don't remember seeing any real indication of where the meeting took
place. The folks were supposed to be meeting Dunklezahn for a chat,
and from how 'D' carried on about 'you may leave now' at the end he
appeared to be operating as if he controlled the site, he certainly
claimed to control who could leave when. This suggests that the site
running this meeting was Dunklezahn's he does own an entire valley he
runs as a fuedal domain after all.

> If they were running the show, I don't think they would
> breach etiquette by posting it.
From above i don't think they were running it.

> If they weren't running it, then it was
> probablely them.
>
But how did they find out about the meeting? Appart from that it would
fit nicely.

> Another thought is that it was Dodger, and then he was talking to
> Laverty. That would make some sense. Laverty would have some knowledge
> of the goings on, and Dodger would inform him that there was nothing new
> talked about. That would be my other guess.
>
Laverty is very knowledgeable but i don't think he's part of the
club. I would assume as the folks attending were under the impression
they would meet only the dragon that no one else should have known
about the meeting, ok the Dragons decker could have guessed from what
he was told to set up, but are you going to cross a boss called
Dunklezahn, in a world with mindprobe spells?? - don't think so.

> -Andrew
>
The nexus kids are the best line so far, they would enjoy breaking a
dagons system, for fun and are good enough deckers to stand a chance
of getting away with it. They would therefore have found out about
the meeting by monitoring Dunklezahns email/ video phone.

Anybody else got any comments?

Has anybody got any information, beyond informed, but fact short
guesses?

Mark
Message no. 30
From: Mr Bob Sagittarian <habelmon@********.CS.ADELAIDE.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: Atzlan - nasty things comming. and related
Date: Tue, 1 Aug 1995 18:19:59 +0930
>
> Mr Bob Sagittarian wrote:
> >
> > As for Australia, I have no fears that my hometown ofAdelaide will in
> > fact be a boring corpzone retirement village. If you were a high-level
> > corp that was sick of it all, wouldn't you move to the Barossa valley?
>
> Definately... OTH, Adelaide already is boring. :)
> (*sigh* I can't talk... with the Mana Storms isolating the Centre, Darwin
> is either gone, or (more likely) a military camp...)
>

Hmmmmmm. Yeah, why not. Destroy Darwin. Good Idea. Or Cairns. Yeah... I know,
let's destroy all of Northern Australia from Sydney up!! YEAH!!!! And then Godzilla
Spirits can completely and utterly destroy MELBOURNE, yes, Melbourne, the festering
capital of Victoria. Send forth plagues, disease. Turnb all inhabitants into ghouls and
nuke them. Yeah! and then let the ghouls move in YEAH!!!

Perths Ok but.



--

Bob Sagittarian Odds & Ends
habelmon@********.cs.adelaide.edu.au
stimpy@****.student.adelaide.edu.au
Message no. 31
From: Andrew <wadycki@********.UIUC.EDU>
Subject: Re: Atzlan - nasty things comming. and related
Date: Tue, 1 Aug 1995 12:06:56 -0500
On Tue, 1 Aug 1995, Mark Steedman wrote:

> > On Mon, 31 Jul 1995, Mark Steedman wrote:
> > If they weren't running it, then it was
> > probablely them.
> But how did they find out about the meeting? Appart from that it would
> fit nicely.

Not every system is secure, a good decker could have intercepted the
invitations as they went to the various people. Some of their systems
could be less secure.

> Laverty is very knowledgeable but i don't think he's part of the
> club. I would assume as the folks attending were under the impression
> they would meet only the dragon that no one else should have known
> about the meeting, ok the Dragons decker could have guessed from what
> he was told to set up, but are you going to cross a boss called
> Dunklezahn, in a world with mindprobe spells?? - don't think so.

I would disagree, if he wasn't part of the club, he wouldn't have been
housing Urdli, he wouldn't have been doing all that stuff with Sam Verner
and the 2nd Ghost Dance, he wouldn't be a Prince. He is on the same
level, he just stays out of things a bit and uses his aids. He has
various agents and a decker god. I think he fits the bill nicely. He
also would have had knowledge of it all before hand (the conversation,
not the meeting).

-Andrew
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The true warrior often understands his enemy better than he understands
his friends. A dangerous pitfall if you let understanding lead to
sympathy as it will naturally do when left unguided. -Miles Teg
wadycki@***.cso.uiuc.edu, http://ux1.cso.uiuc.edu/~wadycki
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Message no. 32
From: Jason Salem <jsalem@********.NET>
Subject: Re: Atzlan - nasty things comming. and related
Date: Fri, 4 Aug 1995 08:47:18 -0500
>On Tue, 1 Aug 1995, Mark Steedman wrote:
>
>> > On Mon, 31 Jul 1995, Mark Steedman wrote:
>> > If they weren't running it, then it was
>> > probablely them.
>> But how did they find out about the meeting? Appart from that it would
>> fit nicely.
>
>Not every system is secure, a good decker could have intercepted the
>invitations as they went to the various people. Some of their systems
>could be less secure.
>
>> Laverty is very knowledgeable but i don't think he's part of the
>> club. I would assume as the folks attending were under the impression
>> they would meet only the dragon that no one else should have known
>> about the meeting, ok the Dragons decker could have guessed from what
>> he was told to set up, but are you going to cross a boss called
>> Dunklezahn, in a world with mindprobe spells?? - don't think so.
>
>I would disagree, if he wasn't part of the club, he wouldn't have been
>housing Urdli, he wouldn't have been doing all that stuff with Sam Verner
>and the 2nd Ghost Dance, he wouldn't be a Prince. He is on the same
>level, he just stays out of things a bit and uses his aids. He has
>various agents and a decker god. I think he fits the bill nicely. He
>also would have had knowledge of it all before hand (the conversation,
>not the meeting).
>
I've been thinking that perhaps Laverty is Brightlight. Intuitive hunch
<heh heh>.

jds
Message no. 33
From: Mark Steedman <RSMS@******.EEE.RGU.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Atzlan - nasty things comming. and related
Date: Fri, 4 Aug 1995 13:44:21 GMT
> From: Jason Salem <jsalem@********.NET>

First off you did not need to quote all that lot [trimmed] to add
those two lines.

> I've been thinking that perhaps Laverty is Brightlight. Intuitive hunch
> <heh heh>.
>
Don't know, i don't remember any hints, (it is far too long since i
read secrets of power, and am unlikely to repeat). Do you have any
hints/info to back this up???

> jds
>

generally

Does anyone feel like compiling the results of the identity guessing
from Atzlan, folks seem agreed on 4 people only, and unless we have a
very diligent researcher about i don't see much more progress being
made until at least we get another adventure related to this lot
[there was a rumor of an atzlan one ??] or a helpful sourcebook,
though i think Cybertech, VR2, NAGA (NAGM whatever) ,and organised
crime are next and are not likely to help as they are
rules/kit/organisation not country sources.

Mark

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