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Message no. 1
From: "J.W.Thomas" <cm5323@***.AC.UK>
Subject: Auras
Date: Fri, 10 Jun 1994 15:11:44 +0100
If all living things have auras, and a mage only sees the aura
not the persons face,could you fool a mage with an 'astrial
disguise kit'?

IE living tissue creatures(like torpid worms) that you could
hold in your mouth between the lips and gums,so they alter the
shape of your face and their auras shine out with your own, so
it looks different...
(Maybe other genengineered creatures that can cling to the skin
to alter the aura?)

And if clothing can be seen while astrial, can the aura of the
whole body be seen? or just the exposed skin?

CHOPPER
trying to fool astrial sight

pondering....
Hmmm...
pondering....
Hmmmm...
<prods the frog with a pencil, so it jumps into a tray of acid>
Message no. 2
From: mAZDA hEWITT <pdyjmh@*******.CCC.NOTTINGHAM.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Auras
Date: Fri, 10 Jun 1994 15:25:56 +0100
On Fri, 10 Jun 1994, J.W. writes:
> IE living tissue creatures(like torpid worms) that you could
> hold in your mouth between the lips and gums,so they alter the
> shape of your face and their auras shine out with your own, so
> it looks different...
> (Maybe other genengineered creatures that can cling to the skin
> to alter the aura?)

It would have to have a strong aura inorder to block out yours eg a
magical creatre Would you lioke to have on wrapped around you? :-)
>
> And if clothing can be seen while astrial, can the aura of the
> whole body be seen? or just the exposed bits?

The aura protudes through clothing. The clothing and body looks like all
the other physical things in the astral plane Ghostly.


Maz
Message no. 3
From: "J.W.Thomas" <cm5323@***.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Auras
Date: Fri, 10 Jun 1994 15:36:02 +0100
>
> On Fri, 10 Jun 1994, J.W. writes:
> > IE living tissue creatures(like torpid worms) that you could
> > hold in your mouth between the lips and gums,so they alter the
> > shape of your face and their auras shine out with your own, so
> > it looks different...
> > (Maybe other genengineered creatures that can cling to the skin
> > to alter the aura?)
>
> It would have to have a strong aura inorder to block out yours eg a
> magical creatre Would you lioke to have on wrapped around you? :-)
<CHOP> the creature doesn't BLOCK your aura, it ALTERS it
because both your auras are seen as one (constructive
interfearance)
> >
> > And if clothing can be seen while astrial, can the aura of the
> > whole body be seen? or just the exposed bits?
>
> The aura protudes through clothing. The clothing and body looks like all
> the other physical things in the astral plane Ghostly.
>
<CHOP> how far does the aura protrube? could you see someones
aura if they were in cover,but only just and the aura extended
out of cover? could you then go physical and target the exposed
aura?

CHOPPER
>
> Maz
>
Message no. 4
From: Christopher Higgins <as812@*******.CARLETON.CA>
Subject: Re: Auras
Date: Fri, 10 Jun 1994 13:14:51 -0400
>
>If all living things have auras, and a mage only sees the aura
>not the persons face,could you fool a mage with an 'astrial
>disguise kit'?
>
>IE living tissue creatures(like torpid worms) that you could
>hold in your mouth between the lips and gums,so they alter the
>shape of your face and their auras shine out with your own, so
>it looks different...
>(Maybe other genengineered creatures that can cling to the skin
>to alter the aura?)

Yes, treat the creatures as a localized background count. Base the T#
penalty in relation to the Body/Essence of the creatures but don't go
overboard; the BG count for Nagasaki & Auschwitz are 5. I'd say a +3 is
maximum and that's equal to Vietnam, Iran, etc. which are some heavy vibes.

>
>And if clothing can be seen while astrial, can the aura of the
>whole body be seen? or just the exposed skin?
>
The aura expand beyond clothing but don't worry about mages whacking
you with combat spells from around the corner 'cause a partial aura
counts as partial cover (+4 on T#).


>CHOPPER
> trying to fool astrial sight

It's possible, keep trying.
Christopher Higgins
Message no. 5
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@****.ORG>
Subject: Auras
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 11:25:20 -0600
Having gotten involved in the current physical/astral discussion with
Steve I just realized that I'm not to clear on exactly what an Aura
is.

Is an aura a "physical" component of an object? Or is a
representative quality?

Can an aura directly affect something, or be directly affected? Can
it ever be targeted? Is it something.. oh, for lack of a better
word, real?

Or, is it like... (geez, I shoulda paid attention in philosophy
class) a projected image? Like going to see a movie. The images on
the screen aren't "real" (I coulda said "reel", but I held back :)
The images are a reflection of the light that's hitting the screen.

If an aura is "real" then it causes a host of problems for me.

If an aura is a projected image (and I don't even want to know how it
works) then many of my problems are solved. Is aura is immaterial
and cannot affect, or be affected by, either physical or astral
entities? Is it merely a reflection of an object that appears in
astral space?

-David
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
--
"Creativity is allowing yourself to make mistakes. Art is knowing
which ones to keep."
Message no. 6
From: Steve Kenson <TalonMail@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Auras
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 09:29:04 -0400
I will proceed these comments by saying I am talking solely about how I would
like to see astral space IDEALLY work, not necessarily how it works at
present. The present system has trouble with many of these questions, which
is why I have suggested some of the changes regarding astral space...

David Buehrer <dbuehrer@****.ORG> wrote:
>Having gotten involved in the current physical/astral discussion with
>Steve I just realized that I'm not to clear on exactly what an Aura
>is.

An aura is a halo of "light" seen around an object from astral space using
the astral senses. It contains information about the object, including its
general health, emotions, magical ability and so forth.

>Is an aura a "physical" component of an object? Or is a
>representative quality?

The latter. The "physical component" (astrally tangible component) is the
astral form or astral body, which is distinct from the aura.

>Can an aura directly affect something, or be directly affected? Can
>it ever be targeted? Is it something.. oh, for lack of a better
>word, real?

Can the aura be targeted? Yes, sorcery can interact with it in certain ways,
as defined by the spell targeting system. Is it ever tangible? No. Is it
real? No more or less real than a hologram or other intangible construct.

>Or, is it like... (geez, I shoulda paid attention in philosophy
>class) a projected image? Like going to see a movie. The images on
>the screen aren't "real" (I coulda said "reel", but I held back :)
>The images are a reflection of the light that's hitting the screen.

It would be more accurate (IMHO) to describe an aura as more of the "astral
shadow" of something physical, cast into the astral plane. It can be sensed,
but it has no substance.

>If an aura is "real" then it causes a host of problems for me.
>
>If an aura is a projected image (and I don't even want to know how it
>works) then many of my problems are solved. Is aura is immaterial
>and cannot affect, or be affected by, either physical or astral
>entities? Is it merely a reflection of an object that appears in
>astral space?

Auras are immaterial and cannot touch or be touched by astral forms. It is,
as you say, merely a reflection or shadow of an object that the object casts
into astral space.

Steve
Message no. 7
From: Lorden <westln@***.EDU>
Subject: Re: Auras
Date: Fri, 1 Aug 1997 16:33:03 -0400
Would an aura or astral body be block line of sight astrally.
If one had a weapon focus behind your back would a person
infront be able to see the focus or target it with a spell.

--
Nigel westln@***.edu
AKA C. Yossarrian, UPAC Projectionist
AKA Lorden
Speaking for myself, and no one else.
Message no. 8
From: "J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Auras
Date: Fri, 1 Aug 1997 20:18:49 -0400
In a message dated 97-07-31 19:00:49 EDT, TalonMail@***.COM (Steve Kenson)
writes:

> I will proceed these comments by saying I am talking solely about how I
> would
> like to see astral space IDEALLY work, not necessarily how it works at
> present. The present system has trouble with many of these questions,
which
> is why I have suggested some of the changes regarding astral space...

Okay, I'll keep that in mind here.

> David Buehrer <dbuehrer@****.ORG> wrote:
> >Having gotten involved in the current physical/astral discussion with
> >Steve I just realized that I'm not to clear on exactly what an Aura
> >is.

The statement of discussion clarification. Cool ;}

> An aura is a halo of "light" seen around an object from astral space using
> the astral senses. It contains information about the object, including its
> general health, emotions, magical ability and so forth.

It is also a representation of its overall state of existence within the
cosmic reflection. Okay, I'll clarify that a bit more. It "reflects" the
general state of the spiritual/universal "essence" of the object itself.

> >Is an aura a "physical" component of an object? Or is a
> >representative quality?
> The latter. The "physical component" (astrally tangible component) is the
> astral form or astral body, which is distinct from the aura.

That is not entirely correct, at least not if things need to be cleared up.
The Aura is the general expressive level, usually passive, of the
being/object in question. Things with "Sentience" or "Determinance"
have an
impassive aura, one that can block the path of astral entities but not
directly interact with them or be interacted with. That is part of the
reasoning behind the "living wall" concept. "Determinance" is the
need to
continue living or "existing" in a given or knowable form btw.

A question, are -we- (the general discussion group) trying to decide to limit
aura definition or clarify. The two directions can be exclusive.

> >Can an aura directly affect something, or be directly affected? Can
> >it ever be targeted? Is it something.. oh, for lack of a better
> >word, real?
> Can the aura be targeted? Yes, sorcery can interact with it in certain
ways,
> as defined by the spell targeting system. Is it ever tangible? No. Is it
> real? No more or less real than a hologram or other intangible construct.

Again, that is not entirely correct. Context seems to be the POV here.

Is a regular (meta)human being targetable? By Sorcery and like or parallel
abilities, most definitely.

Is the Aura ever tangible? (Pondering) Yes, it can be. Those beings with
the ability to "Manifest", be it on their own or with the help of another,
such as a Spirit/Elemental possessing the power, it can became the shape of
tangibility. More accurately, it becomes the Shadow of Tangibility upon a
given medium. Without those abilities, then the tangibility remains only in
the "intangible" universe. AKA, the Astral Plane.

Is It Real? BIG argument I see coming here. I would have to say yes, but
like Steve's reference to a Hologram, it is not a "tangible reality". It is
perceivable and detectable, but only with methods of like or parallel
existence, at least most of the time.

> >Or, is it like... (geez, I shoulda paid attention in philosophy
> >class) a projected image? Like going to see a movie. The images on
> >the screen aren't "real" (I coulda said "reel", but I held
back :)
> >The images are a reflection of the light that's hitting the screen.
>
> It would be more accurate (IMHO) to describe an aura as more of the
"astral
> shadow" of something physical, cast into the astral plane. It can be
sensed,
> but it has no substance.

On the physical plane, it has no "material" substance. That is true.

> >If an aura is "real" then it causes a host of problems for me.
> >
> >If an aura is a projected image (and I don't even want to know how it
> >works) then many of my problems are solved. Is aura is immaterial
> >and cannot affect, or be affected by, either physical or astral
> >entities? Is it merely a reflection of an object that appears in
> >astral space?
>
> Auras are immaterial and cannot touch or be touched by astral forms. It
is,
> as you say, merely a reflection or shadow of an object that the object
casts
> into astral space.
> Steve

This last part is what needs to be clarified I think. The definition of
Active and Passive Auras. Most things on the physical world have Passive,
non-interactive auras. It is the Impassive Nature of living beings that
makes them barriers or obstacles. And btw Steve, the first sentence
here...."Auras are immaterial and cannot touch or be touched by astral
forms."... leaves me lost on your chain of thought.

Aura is the basis of Masking and Shielding for Initiation in SR. "Tangible"
concepts more or less (I said nothing about their debatability).
Message no. 9
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: Auras
Date: Sat, 2 Aug 1997 12:15:54 +0100
Lorden said on 16:33/ 1 Aug 97...

> Would an aura or astral body be block line of sight astrally.
> If one had a weapon focus behind your back would a person
> infront be able to see the focus or target it with a spell.

I'd say it's out of sight, and so impossible to target with a spell.
Although they might see bits of the focus' aura leaking around you, and
know you are hiding _something_ behind your back.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Zie, de pyromaan schijnt door de bomen.
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

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Message no. 10
From: "J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Auras
Date: Tue, 5 Aug 1997 19:30:04 -0400
In a message dated 97-08-01 21:13:41 EDT, westln@***.EDU (Lorden) writes:

>
> Would an aura or astral body be block line of sight astrally.
> If one had a weapon focus behind your back would a person
> infront be able to see the focus or target it with a spell.
>
>
There are rules for Astral Perception of active foci and the like. It might
make for some interesting "astral shadowplay" with what you are describing
above. I also know of instances where active uses of Intiate Masking was
used as an "Astral Stealth" against a Combat Sense, a Detect Enemies and a
Detect Threat (different occasions, but oh what ideas). Sorcery against the
Force of the Detect in question, with the Astral Pool (aka, Masking) as a
"Stealth Pool" for the circumstances.
-K
Message no. 11
From: Alexia Silverstein <alexia_silverstein@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: Auras
Date: Mon, 11 May 1998 13:59:55 -0700
> > A lump of meat, sitting on your plate about to be eaten, has an
astral
> > presence. But it does not have an aura, and not in the same sense
that a
> > human or troll has an aura. A vat of flesh genetically engineered
and
> > biologically viable has an astral presence, but it has no
consciousness,
> no
> > "life" and so it has no active aura. This, if you read enough of
FASA,
> > especially Awakenings and the Corp Sec Handbook, becomes apparent.
> >
>
> This one jumped out at me. How exactly would this differ from a
plant?
> The first thought that comes to mind is that vat grown flesh is just a
> chunk of unassociated "meat" forced to grow through a complex chemical
> process, rather than having any life associated with it. Just
wanted to
> make it a bit clear in my head, I guess.
>

Alright I just have to put my two cents in. I was watching a
documentary a while back and they were talking about people who had
amputations. Some people have it that they sometimes get cramps in
their "ghost arm" or whatever was amputated. They also did something
where they could take pictures of people's auras. Don't ask how they
did it, I don't know, I just thought it was really funky. They took a
picture of a guy who had his arm amputated's aura and it showed the
guy with a faint glow of his arm, which was in a different position
than his new hooked arm. So if the body can remember the arm, can the
arm remember the body. I guess I didn't help the subject very
much...I'll just shut up now...

http://www.sova.net/trish/shadowrun

_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @*****.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
Message no. 12
From: "Jeremy \"Bolthy\" Zimmerman" <jeremy@***********.COM>
Subject: Re: Auras
Date: Mon, 11 May 1998 14:04:12 -0700
----------
> From: Alexia Silverstein <alexia_silverstein@*****.COM>
> To: SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET
> Subject: Re: Auras
> Date: Monday, May 11, 1998 1:59 PM
>
> > > A lump of meat, sitting on your plate about to be eaten, has an
> astral
> > > presence. But it does not have an aura, and not in the same sense
> that a
> > > human or troll has an aura. A vat of flesh genetically engineered
> and
> > > biologically viable has an astral presence, but it has no
> consciousness,
> > no
> > > "life" and so it has no active aura. This, if you read enough of
> FASA,
> > > especially Awakenings and the Corp Sec Handbook, becomes apparent.
> > >
> >
> > This one jumped out at me. How exactly would this differ from a
> plant?
> > The first thought that comes to mind is that vat grown flesh is just a
> > chunk of unassociated "meat" forced to grow through a complex chemical
> > process, rather than having any life associated with it. Just
> wanted to
> > make it a bit clear in my head, I guess.
> >
>
> Alright I just have to put my two cents in. I was watching a
> documentary a while back and they were talking about people who had
> amputations. Some people have it that they sometimes get cramps in
> their "ghost arm" or whatever was amputated. They also did something
> where they could take pictures of people's auras. Don't ask how they
> did it, I don't know, I just thought it was really funky. They took a
> picture of a guy who had his arm amputated's aura and it showed the
> guy with a faint glow of his arm, which was in a different position
> than his new hooked arm. So if the body can remember the arm, can the
> arm remember the body. I guess I didn't help the subject very
> much...I'll just shut up now...
>

I've heard about most of that... I hadn't heard about the photo thing. In
the words of Dennis Leary: "Cuh-reeepy!"

They talk about that sort of think in Cybertech, don't they? Thinking your
cyberarm is situated one way, when it's really pointing another way. Man,
no wonder people think heavily cybered guys are scary.
Message no. 13
From: Panther <qmilton@**.NET>
Subject: Re: Auras
Date: Mon, 11 May 1998 17:14:24 +0000
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> Alright I just have to put my two cents in. I was watching a
> documentary a while back and they were talking about people who had
> amputations. Some people have it that they sometimes get cramps in
> their "ghost arm" or whatever was amputated. They also did something
> where they could take pictures of people's auras. Don't ask how they
> did it, I don't know, I just thought it was really funky. They took
> a picture of a guy who had his arm amputated's aura and it showed
> the guy with a faint glow of his arm, which was in a different
> position than his new hooked arm. So if the body can remember the
> arm, can the arm remember the body. I guess I didn't help the
> subject very much...I'll just shut up now...

Heh. You mean I'm not the only one who's heard of Kirlian
photography? :)

Pantherr

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Message no. 14
From: Wraith <wraith@************.COM>
Subject: Re: Auras
Date: Mon, 11 May 1998 17:02:56 -0500
-----Original Message-----
From: Alexia Silverstein <alexia_silverstein@*****.COM>


>Alright I just have to put my two cents in. I was watching a
>documentary a while back and they were talking about people who had
>amputations. Some people have it that they sometimes get cramps in
>their "ghost arm" or whatever was amputated. They also did something
>where they could take pictures of people's auras. Don't ask how they
>did it, I don't know, I just thought it was really funky. They took a
>picture of a guy who had his arm amputated's aura and it showed the
>guy with a faint glow of his arm, which was in a different position
>than his new hooked arm. So if the body can remember the arm, can the
>arm remember the body. I guess I didn't help the subject very
>much...I'll just shut up now...
>


I think I've heard of something like this before...Discovery channel or
something probably...although I never saw it with an amputee (Atleast I
don't think I did, it was a while ago) I do however remember something about
a "halo" or "glow" around a person...

Wraith
Message no. 15
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Auras
Date: Tue, 12 May 1998 13:14:56 +0100
And verily, did Panther hastily scribble thusly...
|Heh. You mean I'm not the only one who's heard of Kirlian
|photography? :)

I thought it'd be more along the lines of who *HASN'T* heard of Kirlian
photography.

--
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| | graphical shell for a 16 bit patch to an 8 bit |
|Andrew Halliwell | operating system originally coded for a 4 bit |
|Principal Subjects in:- |microprocessor, written by a 2 bit company, that|
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|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
Message no. 16
From: Lander Williams <lander@****.WAVE.CA>
Subject: Re: Auras
Date: Tue, 12 May 1998 10:47:47 -0600
> Alright I just have to put my two cents in. I was watching a
> documentary a while back and they were talking about people who had
> amputations. Some people have it that they sometimes get cramps in
> their "ghost arm" or whatever was amputated. They also did something
> where they could take pictures of people's auras. Don't ask how they
> did it, I don't know, I just thought it was really funky. They took
> a picture of a guy who had his arm amputated's aura and it showed
> the guy with a faint glow of his arm, which was in a different
> position than his new hooked arm. So if the body can remember the
> arm, can the arm remember the body. I guess I didn't help the
> subject very much...I'll just shut up now...

>Heh. You mean I'm not the only one who's heard of Kirlian
>photography? :)

<nods> i think its kinda neet :) we actually used it in a WoD
game once (dont remember why now, though), just after
getting the Project: Twilight source. And something like it
appeared on Psi-Factor tv show once as well
Message no. 17
From: Ereskanti <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Auras
Date: Tue, 12 May 1998 18:25:04 EDT
In a message dated 5/11/98 4:15:15 PM US Eastern Standard Time, qmilton@**.NET
writes:

> Heh. You mean I'm not the only one who's heard of Kirlian
> photography? :)
>
> Pantherr
>
Nope Panther, it's an -Old- -Sore- topic to many on this list....

-K
Message no. 18
From: Jeremiah Myerscough therpgmaster@*******.com
Subject: auras
Date: Thu, 11 Mar 1999 14:13:14 PST
As the black sun rose the ancients could see this written on the black
stone obilisk:

>Okay, say a character, from an early age, was told he/she is a
>demon, you know, like from hell. He/She has been cosmetically
>changed to look like a demon (horns, hooves, etc) and he/she
>BELIEVES that she's a demon. Would her aura be one of a
>normal metahuman (okay, maybe it would be a bit of an abnormal
>one, one would think that would be a slightly messed up person)
>or
>that of a demon?

---------------------------------------------------------------------
As far as I know, (might be slightly different in your campaign) aura's
come from the persons feelings (mental wellbeing). If metahumans etc.
have their own aura because of their race, the aura will always remain
the same for the soul of the being cannot be altered unless by magic and
cyberware. The cosmetic modifications might be able to slightly alter
someone's aura because they could have less essence.
Jack In Now - Myth
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

Further Reading

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