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Message no. 1
From: Allen Versfeld <aversfel@****.CS.UNP.AC.ZA>
Subject: Autofire Rates
Date: Thu, 10 Aug 1995 10:45:45 +0200
I have searched SRII with no luck, so will someone tell me exactly how
many rounds can be fired in one round(get it? how many *round*s in one
*round* ahahah) in full auto?

---------------------------
The guy with no .sig

aversfel@****.cs.unp.ac.za
homepage opening soon
Message no. 2
From: Sascha Pabst <Sascha.Pabst@****.INFORMATIK.UNI-OLDENBURG.DE>
Subject: Re: Autofire Rates
Date: Thu, 10 Aug 1995 12:45:22 +0200
Alan wrote:
> I have searched SRII with no luck, so will someone tell me exactly how
> many rounds can be fired in one round(get it? how many *round*s in one
> *round* ahahah) in full auto?
FoF, p. 81:
"Regular weapons capable of full-auto fire [...] can fire /up/to/ ten
rounds in one Combat Phase. [...]"

Same source says Miniguns and Super-Machineguns fire up to 15 rounds
per phase.

Hope it helps,
Sascha
Message no. 3
From: Ioannis Pantelidis <jpante@******.COMPULINK.GR>
Subject: Re: Autofire Rates
Date: Thu, 10 Aug 1995 15:39:59 +0300
On Thu, 10 Aug 1995, Allen Versfeld wrote:

> I have searched SRII with no luck, so will someone tell me exactly how
> many rounds can be fired in one round(get it? how many *round*s in one
> *round* ahahah) in full auto?
it depends of the weapon. in fof (fields of fire sourcebook) says that
the common weapons (asault rifles,smg,lmg -expept vindicator minigun and
super submachine guns which they throw 15 rounds per complex action) that
have full auto they throw max 10 rounds per complex action


> > --------------------------- > The guy with no .sig
>
> aversfel@****.cs.unp.ac.za
> homepage opening soon
Message no. 4
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@***.NEU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Autofire Rates
Date: Thu, 10 Aug 1995 09:45:06 -0400
>>>>> "Allen" == Allen Versfeld
<aversfel@****.CS.UNP.AC.ZA> writes:

Allen> I have searched SRII with no luck, so will someone tell me
Allen> exactly how many rounds can be fired in one round(get it? how
Allen> many *round*s in one *round* ahahah) in full auto?

You won't find it because Shadowrun combat has been abstracted for
playability.

Most modern automatic small and shoulder arms have cyclics (maximum
rates of fire) of between 600 and 1100 rounds per minute. This results
in your average 30-round magazine being emptied in approximately 3 to 5
seconds, the length of a Shadowrun combat turn.

--
Rat <ratinox@***.neu.edu> \ When not in use, Happy Fun Ball should be
PGP Public Key: Ask for one today! \ returned to its special container and
http://www.ccs.neu.edu/home/ratinox/ \ kept under refrigeration.
Message no. 5
From: Marc A Renouf <jormung@*****.UMICH.EDU>
Subject: Re: Autofire Rates
Date: Thu, 10 Aug 1995 12:17:15 -0400
On Thu, 10 Aug 1995, Stainless Steel Rat wrote:

> Most modern automatic small and shoulder arms have cyclics (maximum
> rates of fire) of between 600 and 1100 rounds per minute. This results
> in your average 30-round magazine being emptied in approximately 3 to 5
> seconds, the length of a Shadowrun combat turn.

This can happen easily, too. Most automatic weapons in SR have
magazines of around 30-40 rounds. A moderately quick character can
really pelt out the rounds and empty the clip in one or two rounds. It's
even easier with suppressive fire. Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't it
a free action to elect to continue suppressive fire? That would make
sense as you are just holding the trigger down. In which case, you can
take a free action on any phase, including simultaneous with someone else's
action. "Holy lead hose, Batman!" Kiss that clip goodbye.

Marc
Message no. 6
From: Paul Jonathan Adam <Paul@********.DEMON.CO.UK>
Subject: Re: Autofire Rates
Date: Thu, 10 Aug 1995 17:23:00 GMT
> I have searched SRII with no luck, so will someone tell me exactly how
> many rounds can be fired in one round(get it? how many *round*s in one
> *round* ahahah) in full auto?

We have a house rule of "one phase = 0.1 second" and turns are three
seconds. So Phase 30 is the maximum possible reaction, and you cannot
have more than three actions.

Bearing that in mind, a Super-Mach or minigun can fire 15 rounds an action.
If a street samurai fires at max rate, you can get 45 shots off in one
Combat Turn. That's the upper limit at the moment as far as hitting anything
is concerned.

I also allow higher ROFs based on the real-life rate of fire, but the gun
is pretty uncontrolled: the sort of "massive cover fire" that most NPCs
don't like sticking their heads into. Game effect, really, because we don't
roll many dice.

--
When you have shot and killed a man, you have defined your attitude towards
him. You have offered a definite answer to a definite problem. For better
or for worse, you have acted decisively.
In fact, the next move is up to him.

Paul J. Adam paul@********.demon.co.uk
Message no. 7
From: Ian Smith <KildTheCat@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Autofire Rates
Date: Fri, 11 Aug 1995 02:22:00 -0400
>FoF, p. 81:
>"Regular weapons capable of full-auto fire [...] can fire >/up/to/ ten
>rounds in one Combat Phase. [...]"
>
>Same source says Miniguns and Super-Machineguns fire up to >15 rounds
>per phase.
>
>Hope it helps,
> Sascha

The funny conclusion to that is that at FA a gun's firing rate changes
depending on you Initiative roll. . .
Message no. 8
From: Ian Smith <KildTheCat@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Autofire Rates
Date: Fri, 11 Aug 1995 02:34:00 -0400
>Most modern automatic small and shoulder arms have cyclics >(maximum
>rates of fire) of between 600 and 1100 rounds per minute. >This results
>in your average 30-round magazine being emptied in >approximately 3 to 5
>seconds, the length of a Shadowrun combat turn.

This sounds about right suprisingly. Your average sam who uses FA weaponry
gets about three attacks per combat turn. Three attacks times 10 shots a pop,
comes out to an empty 30round magazine at the end of the turn. . . I'd always
though SR FA guns were a lot slower than real ones . . .
Message no. 9
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@***.NEU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Autofire Rates
Date: Fri, 11 Aug 1995 10:46:38 -0400
>>>>> "Ian" == Ian Smith <KildTheCat@***.COM> writes:

Ian> This sounds about right suprisingly. Your average sam who uses FA
Ian> weaponry gets about three attacks per combat turn. Three attacks
Ian> times 10 shots a pop, comes out to an empty 30round magazine at the
Ian> end of the turn. . . I'd always though SR FA guns were a lot slower
Ian> than real ones . . .

'Course, the problem is that you're not going to hit much of anything
that you want to hit when "rockin' 'n' rollin'" like that.

Oh, wait! you wouldn't be able to hit much of anything that you want to
hit when "rockin' 'n' rollin'" like that in real life, either.

:)

--
Rat <ratinox@***.neu.edu> \ Do not taunt Happy Fun Ball.
PGP Public Key: Ask for one today! \
http://www.ccs.neu.edu/home/ratinox/ \
Message no. 10
From: David Hinkley <dhinkley@***.ORG>
Subject: Re: Autofire Rates
Date: Sun, 13 Aug 1995 00:39:11 -0700
The United States Army provided me with the opportunity to fire a
wide varity of Full Automatic Weapons (M-2HB, M-3, M-14, M-16, M-60, M-85
and AK-47) as well as instructing others in the care and feeding of same.
My experence is that in the hands of a intelligent, trained and practiced
operator they all have the same effective rate----a 3-5 round burst
followed by a brief pause then another burst. The Infantry has only one
other way to fire machine guns (one I learned and taught but because i
was a Cold Warrior never got to use)FPF or final protective fire during
this all the units Automatic Riflemen (a designation rather then weapon)
and machine guns fire long extended bursts(full magazines or belts)
down predetermined lanes (which if properly laid out interlock). The idea
is to establish a wall of bullets that the attacking enemy will have to
walk or crawl through, At the same time the grenaders are firing at dead
ground and the platoon leader is on the horn with any and all artillery
calling for fire as close in as posible (the fragments should be flying
over the defenders heads as they fire from behind the front berm of thier
fighting positions. As you may have gathered this a last ditch effort the
basic consept being that it is better to have no ammunition, a burned out
barrel and be alive rather then dead. I never did get a satisfactory
answer to the question regarding what we were to about the second wave....

To return to the main subject, automatic weapons are presision
objects (except maybe the M-3 Grease Gun, the early Stens and the PPSH-41)
extended firing (long bursts) increases the chance of a jam or feed
problem, heats up the barrel excessivly (reducing accurce by making the
bore larger then the bullets [heat expansion]),and/or heats up the breach
area (causing premature firing--cook offs). These less then disirable
results are in addition to the reduction of accuracy resulting from the
difficulty in keeping the weapon on target.

In responce to the yet unasked question, of why high cycle rates?
There seem to be a couple of reasons 1. the duration of the 3-5 round
burstis shorter giving the weapon less time to climb. 2) there is a
theoretical rate where the operation of the weapons action cancels out
the recoil (the only weapon that I have heard of that has reached that
rate is the American 180...it is chambered for .22LR and empties a 750
round drum magazine in seconds) 3) it sounds better in add copy and 4) a
high rate of fire is an advantage in using a automatic weapon in a AA role.

As to controling the burst to 3 to 5 rounds most people learnit quickly
(I only ran accross one person who could not master the three round
burst....me...I can shoot 2 or 4 rounds )

I agree to Paul's comments regarding belt firing machine guns,
they are great emplaced but a great pain when moving around or for that
matter carrying around with or without a belt. That and they get strange
looks at staff meetings.

Hope this is some help to those of you how are trying to figure out how
to game guns.

David G. Hinkley

Further Reading

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