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Message no. 1
From: bjartka@***.org (Bjarte S Karlsen)
Subject: Availability of turrets and vehicles for a starting rigger
Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2004 17:23:47 +0100
Hello,

Since this is my first message to this list in quite some time (i don't
even remember if i subscribed to it the last time i played shadowrun
some years ago) i think that i should introduce myself first.

I am a norwegian IT student at NTNU in trondheim and my name is Bjarte
(that makes most of your tounges crawl in your mouth i would belive
:)).

No over to the issues here.

I have recently started a new shadowrunning group. It consist of a
Japanese Spec op, A human negro gunadept that hates ares (realy nice
background), a dwarf mage, doctor, face and a human rigger.

We sat down doing the common 8 hour character generation process, it
went pretty well i think although some issues needed to be fixed we did
a introducing run that consisted of giving a go-gang leader a
"warning". The run went fine realy, and i found out how lethal the
system is and especially hand2hand combat.

but on to the real issues (why am i babling.. hmm)

Our rigger who used to work for Fuchi (we started playing august 2060)
is a getaway /drone kinda rigger (he is not sure yet i guess..) wants
to make his own vehicle. His first try was a modified Bison with popup
turret and concealed armour and stuff. But that had abit poor
electronic warfare capabilities so he remade it after the session (i
said it was ok). So he came up with a modifed Roadmaster (medium
transport). Then i started checking the vehicle for the normal starting
restrictions. Availabiliy 8 and rating 6. Doing so was quite ok until i
checked out the tower. My rigger3 book is very much off here, so i
checked the convertion guide and it said that TN was Price of Turret
/400. That makes this tower having a absurd TN, and i what i realy just
wanted to know was. Is this true or what? In my book it does not make
sence. I mean many drones have installed turrets and theese drones have
a availability of 8. Would you not then just buy a drone, rip out the
turret and put it on your vehicle?

Then to some other issues. What about payment for customized vehicles.
Do you enforce payment for the hours spent as well? Do you allow
modifications that needs a facility (availabiliy 12). Do you allow your
riggers to design vehicles or just customize exsisting ones?

I guess i could have just asked the questions plainly but hey i am in a
good mood today :)

For thoose of you who visit DSF i have asked the same question there.
--
regards
Bjarte Stien Karlsen
To find out the limits of the possible you have to go beyond them into
the impossible
Message no. 2
From: zebulingod@*******.net (zebulingod)
Subject: Availability of turrets and vehicles for a starting rigger
Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2004 10:47:39 -0800
Bjarte S Karlsen wrote:

<SNIP>
>
> Our rigger who used to work for Fuchi (we started playing
> august 2060) is a getaway /drone kinda rigger (he is not sure
> yet i guess..) wants to make his own vehicle. His first try
> was a modified Bison with popup turret and concealed armour
> and stuff. But that had abit poor electronic warfare
> capabilities so he remade it after the session (i said it was
> ok). So he came up with a modifed Roadmaster (medium
> transport). Then i started checking the vehicle for the
> normal starting restrictions. Availabiliy 8 and rating 6.
> Doing so was quite ok until i checked out the tower. My
> rigger3 book is very much off here, so i checked the
> convertion guide and it said that TN was Price of Turret
> /400. That makes this tower having a absurd TN, and i what i
> realy just wanted to know was. Is this true or what? In my
> book it does not make sence. I mean many drones have
> installed turrets and theese drones have a availability of 8.
> Would you not then just buy a drone, rip out the turret and
> put it on your vehicle?
>

Yes, it does mean that there are a few drones that are cheaper to buy (and
more easily available) so that you can get their turret/weapons. I don't
have my book with me, but I seem to recall the Steel Lynx being one of them
where its Availability was lower than the attached weaponry. One of my
players will routinely purchase them, rip out the guns and then use the
drone for spare parts.

Z
Message no. 3
From: robertennew@*****.com.au (Robert Ennew)
Subject: Availability of turrets and vehicles for a starting rigger
Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2004 14:37:22 +1100 (EST)
--- Bjarte S Karlsen <bjartka@***.org> wrote:

<snip >

> Doing so
> was quite ok until i
> checked out the tower. My rigger3 book is very much
> off here, so i
> checked the convertion guide and it said that TN was
> Price of Turret
> /400. That makes this tower having a absurd TN, and
> i what i realy just
> wanted to know was. Is this true or what? In my book
> it does not make
> sence. I mean many drones have installed turrets and
> theese drones have
> a availability of 8. Would you not then just buy a
> drone, rip out the
> turret and put it on your vehicle?

I'm not a rigger sort of person, I haven't even given
It a chance that's why I've never read the rules or
given It a go at playing a rigger pc.

My guess though Is the reason why the Tg No. would be
so high Is because you would need some sort of group
or organisation to pool their resources & liason
skills In say an open test to aquire a peice of
restricted hardware, makes sense to me If that's the
way It works In RL. So If you need tons of people
involved either directly or Indirectly (what they
don't know won't hurt 'em) It should bring the Tg. no.
down to a economically sound number replicating the
effort you would strive for In RL to aquire goods &
services.

E.g. Convincing a Army quatermaster to unwittingly
send the order for some military hardware to the wrong
base that never put In a purchase order for said
hardware, & covertly Intercept shipment under guise of
the proper or authorised recipients :)

Of course most of this Legwork should be done by the
fixer & his fence/contacts but maybe their asking you
to go to extra lengths & roleplay these solutions
because It sounds to me like It's some drek hot peice
of gear?

GZ - If ASIO decides to do an investigation on said
comments, I'm sorry It's only a game & I would never
really do It or jeopardise my career In the Army :)
Seeing as ASIO has already done a thorough background
check on appointment of enlistment I've got nothing to
worry about but my fragile, paranoid, little mind :]
- just shit stirring like usuall, I can see the drill
seargants gonna' call me "Joker" straight away, have
my head shaved completely bald & ask me "what's your
major malfunction!" - oliver stone's full metal jacket :)

http://personals.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Personals
New people, new possibilities. FREE for a limited time.
Message no. 4
From: robertennew@*****.com.au (Robert Ennew)
Subject: Availability of turrets and vehicles for a starting rigger
Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2004 14:56:19 +1100 (EST)
--- zebulingod <zebulingod@*******.net> wrote:
<SNIP>
> Yes, it does mean that there are a few drones that
> are cheaper to buy (and
> more easily available) so that you can get their
> turret/weapons. I don't
> have my book with me, but I seem to recall the Steel
> Lynx being one of them
> where its Availability was lower than the attached
> weaponry. One of my
> players will routinely purchase them, rip out the
> guns and then use the
> drone for spare parts.

Pretty fraggin' stupid loophole huh Z, so you allow
this to go on or what man? IMHO most goods & services
the attachments are sold seperately as extras. Unless
the availability Is increased to represent these
extra's or at least accomodate for how ludicrouse It
sounds, otherwise I have to laugh my hole out at the
wankers not realising & give acknowledgement to those
smart bastards who spotted & took advantage of that
interesting major frag up of military Intelligents
(even "Matell"'s smart enough to have all extras sold
seperately). Back to Biz, IMHO It would'a' made more
sense If you sold the basic package seperate to the
extras unless your going to beef up the extras package
with additional at a bulk rate aswell as bulk
availability rating, instead of rippin' yourself. Now
that's good biz' sense chummer ;)

GZ

http://personals.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Personals
New people, new possibilities. FREE for a limited time.
Message no. 5
From: bjartka@***.org (Bjarte S Karlsen)
Subject: Availability of turrets and vehicles for a starting rigger
Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2004 10:03:01 +0100
On 15. jan. 2004, at 04.56, Robert Ennew wrote:

> --- zebulingod <zebulingod@*******.net> wrote:
> Pretty fraggin' stupid loophole huh Z, so you allow
> this to go on or what man? IMHO most goods & services
> the attachments are sold seperately as extras. Unless
> the availability Is increased to represent these
> extra's or at least accomodate for how ludicrouse It
> sounds, otherwise I have to laugh my hole out at the
> wankers not realising & give acknowledgement to those
> smart bastards who spotted & took advantage of that
> interesting major frag up of military Intelligents
> (even "Matell"'s smart enough to have all extras sold
> seperately). Back to Biz, IMHO It would'a' made more
> sense If you sold the basic package seperate to the
> extras unless your going to beef up the extras package
> with additional at a bulk rate aswell as bulk
> availability rating, instead of rippin' yourself. Now
> that's good biz' sense chummer ;)

Nopes i do not allow them to go on. I have upped the availability for
both Steel Lynx and Strato-9, as they are both broken at availabiliy 8
(you can start with them). I put them at 12.
--
regards
Bjarte Stien Karlsen
To find out the limits of the possible you have to go beyond them into
the impossible
Message no. 6
From: gurth@******.nl (Gurth)
Subject: Availability of turrets and vehicles for a starting rigger
Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2004 11:10:40 +0100
According to Robert Ennew, on Thursday 15 January 2004 04:56 the word on
the street was...

> Pretty fraggin' stupid loophole huh Z, so you allow
> this to go on or what man? IMHO most goods & services
> the attachments are sold seperately as extras.

Vehicle prices do not reflect the extras they have that are not part of the
design rules. Need a MMG? Ask your fence for a Strato-9 drone instead.

--
Gurth@******.nl - Stone Age: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
You've been touched by the doubt of man
-> Probably NAGEE Editor * ShadowRN GridSec * Triangle Virtuoso <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://plastic.dumpshock.com <-

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Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998

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