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Message no. 1
From: Nexx <nexx@********.NET>
Subject: Aztlan Shadow posters
Date: Sat, 5 Sep 1998 15:35:02 -0500
I just got Aztlan yesterday, and I was wondering: did we ever decided who
everyone is? I've got some guesses, but I want to know what everyone else
has.

My Guesses\Knows

Big D: Well, Duhh
Laughing Man: Harlequin
Lady of the Court: Whoever is the current Ard Ri (if that's the term) of
the Seelie Court
Wordsmyth: Ehran the Scribe

The rest, I'm drawing a blank. Any help?

***************
Rev. Mark Hall, Bard to the Lady Mari
aka Pope Nexx Many-Scars
*
"One thing's for sure: It'll be years before Chelsea is willing to give a
guy a blow job."
Rick Leahy, Carpenter
Message no. 2
From: One Ronin <ronin@*******.COM>
Subject: Re: Aztlan Shadow posters
Date: Sat, 5 Sep 1998 14:02:52 PDT
>I just got Aztlan yesterday, and I was wondering: did we ever decided
who
>everyone is? I've got some guesses, but I want to know what everyone
else
>has.
>
>My Guesses\Knows
>
>Big D: Well, Duhh
>Laughing Man: Harlequin
>Lady of the Court: Whoever is the current Ard Ri (if that's the term)
of
>the Seelie Court
>Wordsmyth: Ehran the Scribe
>
>The rest, I'm drawing a blank. Any help?
>

I believe you've gotten those right. As for the others, I'm fairly sure
that Jungle Cat is Hualpa, the feathered dragon that leads the awakened
forces in Amazonia. I'm still a little clueless about Hecate and
Umsondo.

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
Message no. 3
From: Nexx <nexx@********.NET>
Subject: Re: Aztlan Shadow posters
Date: Sat, 5 Sep 1998 16:05:35 -0500
----------
> From: One Ronin <ronin@*******.COM>

> >I just got Aztlan yesterday, and I was wondering: did we ever decided
> who
> >everyone is? I've got some guesses, but I want to know what everyone
> else
> >has.

> I believe you've gotten those right. As for the others, I'm fairly sure
> that Jungle Cat is Hualpa, the feathered dragon that leads the awakened
> forces in Amazonia. I'm still a little clueless about Hecate and
> Umsondo.

<smacks head into wall> OF COURSE!
Message no. 4
From: XaOs <xaos@*****.NET>
Subject: Re: Aztlan Shadow posters
Date: Sat, 5 Sep 1998 16:14:32 -0500
> Big D: Well, Duhh
> Laughing Man: Harlequin
> Lady of the Court: Whoever is the current Ard Ri (if that's the term) of
> the Seelie Court
> Wordsmyth: Ehran the Scribe
>
> The rest, I'm drawing a blank. Any help?

Sometimes I think that I can always help. Hereyago:

http://www.ntr.net/~kilroy/aztlan.html

Enjoy!

-XaOs-
xaos@*****.net
Message no. 5
From: Wordman <wordman@*******.COM>
Subject: Re: Aztlan Shadow posters
Date: Sun, 6 Sep 1998 11:39:07 -0400
>I just got Aztlan yesterday, and I was wondering: did we ever decided who
>everyone is?

This is covered in question P2 in the ShadowFAQ. For now the FAQ is at
http://pobox.com/~wordman/ShadowFAQ.html.

The majority of the info is at http://www.ntr.net/~kilroy/aztlan.html, but
beware as some of this information is a bit misleading, the identity of
Hecate in particular. FASA owned up to most of these ids on page 55 of
Threats:

By the way, One Ronin wrote:
> I'm fairly sure that Jungle Cat is Hualpa, the feathered dragon that
> leads the awakened forces in Amazonia.

This is probably not correct. From various comments in Aztlan, it's pretty
clear that Jungle Cat is a shapeshifter, probably a jaguar.

Wordman
Message no. 6
From: Michael vanHulst <Schizi@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Aztlan Shadow posters
Date: Sun, 6 Sep 1998 13:12:24 EDT
In a message dated 9/6/98 8:51:32 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
wordman@*******.COM writes:

> The majority of the info is at http://www.ntr.net/~kilroy/aztlan.html, but
> beware as some of this information is a bit misleading, the identity of
> Hecate in particular. FASA owned up to most of these ids on page 55 of
> Threats:
What is misleading for Hecate, I figured her to be Alachia and the head of the
Atlantean Foundation?
Message no. 7
From: Anders Swenson <anders@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: Aztlan Shadow posters
Date: Sun, 6 Sep 1998 12:39:39 -0700
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Michael vanHulst wrote:

>
>
>
> What is misleading for Hecate, I figured her to be Alachia and the head of the
> Atlantean Foundation?
>

I concur with this opinion, although I haven't re-read Aztlan recently.

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--------------BF7D39B6C81F8535E34B6EC0--
Message no. 8
From: Wordman <wordman@*******.COM>
Subject: Re: Aztlan Shadow posters
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1998 02:35:51 -0400
>In a message dated 9/6/98 8:51:32 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
>wordman@*******.COM writes:
>
>> The majority of the info is at http://www.ntr.net/~kilroy/aztlan.html, but
>> beware as some of this information is a bit misleading, the identity of
>> Hecate in particular. FASA owned up to most of these ids on page 55 of
>> Threats:
>
>What is misleading for Hecate, I figured her to be Alachia and the head of the
>Atlantean Foundation?

Threats names Hecate as Sheila Blatavska, head of the Atlantean Foundation;
however, at the time the above page was posted (long before Threats was
published), Sheila Blatavska was not really well-known name in SR, and so
Hecate remained unknown at the time. I remember their being some speculation
that Hecate was one of the elves in the fiction, but that was refuted. I
don't remember if that elf was Alachia or not. I never followed much of the
Earthdawn cross-over stuff or IE thread, so I'm not even sure who Alachia
is.

Wordman
Message no. 9
From: Michael vanHulst <Schizi@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Aztlan Shadow posters
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1998 10:13:47 EDT
In a message dated 9/6/98 11:37:51 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
wordman@*******.COM writes:

> I never followed much of the
> Earthdawn cross-over stuff or IE thread, so I'm not even sure who Alachia
> is.
The quenn of the Blood Wood (not that you care :-)
and Jenna N'Fara <sp> mother (if I remember my Worlds without end tea parties
right) One of hte female princes of Tir Tairngire.
Message no. 10
From: Wordman <wordman@*******.COM>
Subject: Re: Aztlan Shadow posters
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 20:35:48 -0400
I remembered a discussion on rec.games.frp.cyber a looong time ago where
someone convinced me that Hecate was _not_ Alachia, but someone unknown. It
was bugging me, so I looked on Deja News. Viola:


David K. Henry writes (on 19-JAN-96):
> Carl Perkins writes, on Alachia being Hecate in Aztlan:
>>Could just as easily (or even more so, given the lack of political knowledge)
>>be the elf from Alachia's court who came up with the actual blood magic idea
>>and/or the proceedure to actually do it. Alachia was the Queen - that does
>>not mean she was a hotshot magician capable of designing or implementing the
>>process that was used, in fact I'd say it is likely that she, being the Queen,
>>wouldn't have the time to become that advanced of a magician or do the research
>>to come up with the idea, even over the course of centuries.
>
>In particular, Alachia was generally known to have been a troubador in
>the Fourth World (a physical adept who specializes in Charisma tests).
>
>I just reread the Aztlan book today, and the section in which Hecate
>questions Wordsmyth and the Lady about the rebels makes it even more
>likely that she's not Alachia: besides having to ask about the policies
>of two countries she's partially in control of, both Lady Deigh and
>Ehran say "we" when talking about their countries to Hecate as opposed
>to "us." Nothing inclusive in this conversation.

In any case, since FASA says in Threats that Hecate is Sheila Blatavska,
that means Hecate can only be Alachia (a.k.a. Lady Brane Deigh) if you think
Alachia is also Blatavska. I can't believe that someone in charge of running
Tir na nOg would have the time or desire to also run the Atlantean
Foundation.

It does seem pretty clear from Aztlan that Hecate _is_ a blood elf, though.
Or whatever you call it with the thorns coming out of the skin.

Wordman
Message no. 11
From: Michael vanHulst <Schizi@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Aztlan Shadow posters
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 22:30:21 EDT
In a message dated 9/8/98 6:11:19 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
wordman@*******.COM writes:
Could just as easily (or even more so, given the lack of political knowledge)
>>be the elf from Alachia's court who came up with the actual blood magic idea
>>and/or the proceedure to actually do it.
Uh, according to Blood Wood sourcebook, the MAN that invented the Ritual, is
unlikely to be Sheila. Also Alachia is a troubador, but also an illusionist,
and elementalist.
<snip alot>
> In any case, since FASA says in Threats that Hecate is Sheila Blatavska,
> that means Hecate can only be Alachia (a.k.a. Lady Brane Deigh) if you
think
> Alachia is also Blatavska. I can't believe that someone in charge of
running
> Tir na nOg would have the time or desire to also run the Atlantean
> Foundation.
Hecate is Sheila, but Alachia is not Deigh.
Message no. 12
From: Tarek Okail <Tarek_Okail@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: Aztlan Shadow posters
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 00:02:13 -0400
Wordman--

>In any case, since FASA says in Threats that Hecate is Sheila
>Blatavska, that means Hecate can only be Alachia (a.k.a. Lady
>Brane Deigh) if you think Alachia is also Blatavska. I can't
>believe that someone in charge of running Tir na nOg would have
>the time or desire to also run the Atlantean Foundation.

Lady of the Court is Lady Brane Deigh. It is *certainly*
not "Alachia", who is currently one of the High Princes of Tir
Tairngire. Lady Deigh, incidentally, also seems to be one of the
"younger" IE's.
Brightlight is/was "Leonardo", the single most hated IE in
existence. Brightlight is also one of the two "mysterious" posters
in the back of Aztlan, and the one responsible for amending the
Aztlan file with the Cabal's little chat. Remember, "Leonardo" was
beyond the cutting edge of matrix technology, and was probably the
first to discover the abilities of the Otaku, well before anyone
else even suspected they existed.

Shadowmage
Message no. 13
From: K in the Shadows <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Aztlan Shadow posters
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 03:13:44 EDT
In a message dated 9/8/1998 8:10:54 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
wordman@*******.COM writes:

> In any case, since FASA says in Threats that Hecate is Sheila Blatavska,
> that means Hecate can only be Alachia (a.k.a. Lady Brane Deigh) if you
think
> Alachia is also Blatavska. I can't believe that someone in charge of
running
> Tir na nOg would have the time or desire to also run the Atlantean
> Foundation.
>
> It does seem pretty clear from Aztlan that Hecate _is_ a blood elf, though.
> Or whatever you call it with the thorns coming out of the skin.

Except that in World Without End, Lady Deigh and Alachia are seperate people.
the rest of this makes sense though.

-K :)
Message no. 14
From: K in the Shadows <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Aztlan Shadow posters
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 03:24:41 EDT
In a message dated 9/8/1998 11:39:48 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
Tarek_Okail@**********.COM writes:

> Lady of the Court is Lady Brane Deigh. It is *certainly*
> not "Alachia", who is currently one of the High Princes of Tir
> Tairngire. Lady Deigh, incidentally, also seems to be one of the
> "younger" IE's.
> Brightlight is/was "Leonardo", the single most hated IE in
> existence. Brightlight is also one of the two "mysterious" posters
> in the back of Aztlan, and the one responsible for amending the
> Aztlan file with the Cabal's little chat. Remember, "Leonardo" was
> beyond the cutting edge of matrix technology, and was probably the
> first to discover the abilities of the Otaku, well before anyone
> else even suspected they existed.

Where did you get this knowledge? Brightlight is Leonardo??? Somehow, I just
don't think so. And Alachia isn't one of the High Prince-thingies on the TT
court. She is part of the "Shadow Council", which is something different.

-K
Message no. 15
From: Mike Bobroff <Airwasp@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Aztlan Shadow posters
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 08:52:53 EDT
In a message dated 9/8/98 11:40:20 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
Tarek_Okail@**********.COM writes:

> Lady of the Court is Lady Brane Deigh. It is *certainly*
> not "Alachia", who is currently one of the High Princes of Tir
> Tairngire. Lady Deigh, incidentally, also seems to be one of the
> "younger" IE's.

Umm, Alachia is in Tir na'Nog, her daughter, Jenna Nifarra (?!?) is one of the
Tir Tairngire Princes.

> Brightlight is/was "Leonardo", the single most hated IE in
> existence. Brightlight is also one of the two "mysterious" posters
> in the back of Aztlan, and the one responsible for amending the
> Aztlan file with the Cabal's little chat. Remember, "Leonardo" was
> beyond the cutting edge of matrix technology, and was probably the
> first to discover the abilities of the Otaku, well before anyone
> else even suspected they existed.

I don't think Brightlight was hated by a lot of the other IE's, it's just that
the IE who called himself Leonardo (as he was not the original Leonardo, he
was so proud of a mortal who achieved such great heights that he took the name
for himself), was someone who was not mainstream with the other IE's and also
took an extreme interest in Technology, and did not rely on magic as much as
the other IE's did for power and the like.

-Herc
------- The Best Mechanic you can ever have.
Message no. 16
From: Martin Steffens <chimerae@***.IE>
Subject: Re: Aztlan Shadow posters
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 18:07:29 +0000
and thus did Tarek Okail speak on 9 Sep 98 at 0:02:

> Brightlight is/was "Leonardo", the single most hated IE in
> existence. Brightlight is also one of the two "mysterious" posters
> in the back of Aztlan, and the one responsible for amending the
> Aztlan file with the Cabal's little chat.

I figured that Brightlight would be Dodger or Sean Laverty, but
that's just a feeling I got. Do you have any info I don't have to
make these bold statements, Sir Okail?

Martin Steffens
chimerae@***.ie
Message no. 17
From: K in the Shadows <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Aztlan Shadow posters
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 15:00:14 EDT
In a message dated 9/9/1998 12:10:32 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
chimerae@***.IE writes:

> > Brightlight is/was "Leonardo", the single most hated IE in
> > existence. Brightlight is also one of the two "mysterious" posters
> > in the back of Aztlan, and the one responsible for amending the
> > Aztlan file with the Cabal's little chat.
>
> I figured that Brightlight would be Dodger or Sean Laverty, but
> that's just a feeling I got. Do you have any info I don't have to
> make these bold statements, Sir Okail?

Ya know, in all honesty, I considered "Brightlight" to be
"Quicksilver" from
the Imago module...
-K
Message no. 18
From: Tarek Okail <Tarek_Okail@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: Aztlan Shadow posters
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 22:12:58 -0400
-K--

>Where did you get this knowledge? Brightlight is Leonardo???
>Somehow, I just don't think so. And Alachia isn't one of the
>High Prince-thingies on the TT court. She is part of the
>"Shadow Council", which is something different.

Read Black Madonna and Technobabel. Then, throw in the
fact that Brightlight was invited but *apparently* decided not
to show up. Considering the subject, and a few hints in the
"chat", Brightlight would be *very very interested* in Aztlan.
Keep in mind that some of the computer technology devised by
Leonardo needs the abilities of the Otaku to work at it's full
potential. He *had* to have designed it in conjunction with an
Otaku, or someone with the Otaku's abilities. Do you really
think, given the subject, Leonardo's technical capabilities,
and a "virtual gateway" that shows up mysteriously, that
Brightlight/Leonardo would *not* attend? He'd use his Otaku
friend to back him up, and would go surfing in with the hottest
cyber stuff he had just in case it was a trap.

Alachia is one of the High Princes of the Tir. All the
members of the "shadow council" are High Princes. Even Lofwyr.

Shadowmage
Message no. 19
From: Michael vanHulst <Schizi@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Aztlan Shadow posters
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 23:09:13 EDT
In a message dated 9/9/98 7:16:49 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
Tarek_Okail@**********.COM writes:

> Alachia is one of the High Princes of the Tir. All the
> members of the "shadow council" are High Princes. Even Lofwyr.
Alachia is NOT a member of the Council of Princes of Tir Tairngire, her
daughter Jenna N'Faira is though. As for the "shadow council", the only thing
they have in common is knowledge of the fourth world, there is no council
trying to take over the world. Granted a lot of the individuals might not mind
taking over the world, but not as a group.
Message no. 20
From: Robert Watkins <robert.watkins@******.COM>
Subject: Re: Aztlan Shadow posters
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 13:20:08 +1000
Michael vanHulst writes:
> > Alachia is one of the High Princes of the Tir. All the
> > members of the "shadow council" are High Princes. Even Lofwyr.
> Alachia is NOT a member of the Council of Princes of Tir Tairngire, her
> daughter Jenna N'Faira is though. As for the "shadow council",
> the only thing
> they have in common is knowledge of the fourth world, there is no council
> trying to take over the world. Granted a lot of the individuals
> might not mind
> taking over the world, but not as a group.

More to the point, to paraphrase Terry Pratchett (ah, is there nothing you
can't apply Terry's wisdom to?), it seems that nature has put in a safeguard
into those with high magical talent. They are more likely to cut each other
down in the street than work together to conquer the world.

(This tends to be true of everything, though... after all, if you've got a
group of people who are power-hungry enough to want to conquer the world,
sooner or later, some sub-group is going to make an attempt to get a larger
piece of the pie for themselves)

--
Duct tape is like the Force: There's a Light side, a Dark side, and it
binds the Universe together.
Robert Watkins -- robert.watkins@******.com
Message no. 21
From: K in the Shadows <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Aztlan Shadow posters
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 02:09:49 EDT
In a message dated 9/9/1998 9:17:29 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
Tarek_Okail@**********.COM writes:



> Alachia is one of the High Princes of the Tir. All the
> members of the "shadow council" are High Princes. Even Lofwyr.

Ah, but she is not mentioned in the Tir Tairngire sourcebook, which does list
all of the members of the High Council of Princes (Surehand, Oakforest, Ehran,
N'Fairra (who in her descriptions has the mentioning of the old painting that
looked like her, but was not her), Laverty, and a Dragon). We later find out
that Lofwyr is the dragon in this question. There is also a mentioning of a
Sasquoi and an Ork, but I cannot refind this at the moment.

I'm looking at the book now, starts on page 48 with Political Profiles.

Alachia is mentioned in World's Without End, where she gets in Aina's way, and
Harlequin escorts her out of the council meeting room after Yrgrathes'
appearance. Alachia is mentioned as N'Fairra's mother by Aina in that text.

Jenna and Laverty are flirting with each other the entire passage/section in
question.

Alachia is NOT mentioned in the text as far as the Political Structure that is
part of the "Public Government". Hence, she is part of the Shadow Council, in
which Lofwyr is wrapped up in. Also, please note that Alachia makes her way
partly due to her litigational circumstances with Oakforest, and her ties with
the other elves (read as' Ehran).

I have paid attention to this area, very closely in fact.

Please, if you have more information, please give me page references I can
search into and read for myself. The passage in WWE could be found relatively
easily. I remember it so clearly because it's where Yrgsrathe decides to be a
dweeb and drop in with Aithne's boy wrapped up and all befuddled (what a riot,
to have a name-level Horror pop-in for a visit).

-K
Message no. 22
From: "Droopy ." <mmanhardt@*****.NET>
Subject: Re: Aztlan Shadow posters
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 17:56:44 -0400
From: K in the Shadows <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Aztlan Shadow posters

> > Alachia is one of the High Princes of the Tir. All the
> > members of the "shadow council" are High Princes. Even Lofwyr.

Nope. Not even. Alachia is the blood queen and is part of Tir Na
Nog's council, not Tir Tarngire.


--Droopy
Message no. 23
From: Tarek Okail <Tarek_Okail@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: Aztlan Shadow posters
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 01:30:01 -0400
-K--
You know, I forgot all about Worlds Without End... I'll
have to pick up a copy, now.
For a while I wasn't buying any Shadowrun novels, because
they read like crap, (well, not really crap but they were an oddball
bunch of books) and some of them took a *serious* downbeat
approach at a time when I wanted something upbeat to balance out
stuff that was happening IRL. The kicker was Black Madonna, and
from what I've heard in the brief time I've been on this list, a
lot of people disliked that book. "Leonardo, Savior Of The World!"
Puhleeeze!
I picked up the Dragon Heart trilogy because it dealt with
the big D and the aftermath of his death. I always liked Dunkelzahn.
And the impression I got from that "old painting" was that
Jenna Ni'Fairra *was* the person depicted in the painting. After
all, we knew back then that IE's existed. Just because the runner
who saw the painting didn't believe that Jenna was as old as the
painting doesn't mean it's true... <g> and since Worlds Without End
came out both after I stopped buying SR books and after Earthdawn
was introduced, I *assumed* that Jenna was Alachia... just without
the thorns. =


Shadowmage
Message no. 24
From: K in the Shadows <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Aztlan Shadow posters
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 01:56:53 EDT
In a message dated 9/10/1998 4:57:36 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
mmanhardt@*****.NET writes:

> From: K in the Shadows <Ereskanti@***.COM>
> Subject: Re: Aztlan Shadow posters
>
> > > Alachia is one of the High Princes of the Tir. All the
> > > members of the "shadow council" are High Princes. Even Lofwyr.
>
> Nope. Not even. Alachia is the blood queen and is part of Tir Na
> Nog's council, not Tir Tarngire.
>
I want it pointed out that I am *NOT* the one who quoted the above, and
Droopy, please get those quotings correctly if you are able to next time. I
do *NOT* want to take credit for that commentary at all.

-K

Further Reading

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Thwap!