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Message no. 1
From: Vael Lashar <ltwiss@********.COM>
Subject: Aztlan Watchers
Date: Tue, 29 Oct 1996 17:48:42 +0000
I've been reading ShadowRN since Aug 30th; so if this question has
been answered; please send replies to me via private email.

Who are the mystery guests that were peeping in on Big D and the
gang's conversation in the Aztlan post?

Vael
Message no. 2
From: Mark Steedman <M.J.Steedman@***.RGU.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Aztlan Watchers
Date: Wed, 30 Oct 1996 11:42:02 GMT
Vael Lashar
>
> Who are the mystery guests that were peeping in on Big D and the
> gang's conversation in the Aztlan post?
>
I don't think anyone outside the SR developer and the few assistant
freelancers that have been filled in (so sourcebooks they write are
compatible) knows. We have names/proper ID's for i think its 6 of the
folks actually involved (inc 'brightlight') in the conversation, but
there just are no hints anywhere as to who the two could be, try
guessing in the 'fastjack' league and you might get it right, but no
way to confirm the answers :)

Mark
Message no. 3
From: Droopy <droopy@*******.NB.NET>
Subject: Re: Aztlan Watchers
Date: Wed, 30 Oct 1996 23:48:16 +0000
> Who are the mystery guests that were peeping in on Big D and the
> gang's conversation in the Aztlan post?

lets see....Dunkelzahn, Harlequin, Ehran the Scribe, Alachia were
participants, though I don't recall the rest right now. Anyone know
(or guess) who Osmundo is?


--Droopy
droopy@**.net
Message no. 4
From: Bull <chaos@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: Aztlan Watchers
Date: Thu, 31 Oct 1996 00:04:19 -0500
>> Who are the mystery guests that were peeping in on Big D and the
>> gang's conversation in the Aztlan post?
>
>lets see....Dunkelzahn, Harlequin, Ehran the Scribe, Alachia were
>participants, though I don't recall the rest right now. Anyone know
>(or guess) who Osmundo is?
>
Hmm, another of those wonderfull reoccuring threads...:)

Usmondo appears to be an immortal elf from Azania...

Jungle cat is the only big mystery among the named guests, as well as the
two unnamed watchers that were hidden from _these_ powerful beings...

Steve
Message no. 5
From: Sight Unseen <toabo@****.UTEXAS.EDU>
Subject: Re: Aztlan Watchers
Date: Thu, 31 Oct 1996 03:13:43 -0500
At 11:48 PM 10/30/96 +0000, you wrote:
>> Who are the mystery guests that were peeping in on Big D and the
>> gang's conversation in the Aztlan post?
>
>lets see....Dunkelzahn, Harlequin, Ehran the Scribe, Alachia were
>participants, though I don't recall the rest right now. Anyone know
>(or guess) who Osmundo is?
>
>
>--Droopy
>droopy@**.net
>
According to guy in Threats, Umsondo represents Azania, an elven
nation in Africa.
As for the anonymous observers, obviously they are among the secret
powers lurking behind the scenes. Beyond that, they're just another reason
to be paranoid in the 2050's. <smirk>

Peace and Long Life,

Scott
Message no. 6
From: Vael Lashar <ltwiss@********.COM>
Subject: Re: Aztlan Watchers
Date: Thu, 31 Oct 1996 08:52:37 +0000
> >> Who are the mystery guests that were peeping in on Big D and the
> >> gang's conversation in the Aztlan post?
> >
> >lets see....Dunkelzahn, Harlequin, Ehran the Scribe, Alachia were
> >participants, though I don't recall the rest right now. Anyone know
> >(or guess) who Osmundo is?
> >
> Hmm, another of those wonderfull reoccuring threads...:)


AAAAAAAHHHHHHH!!

That's not what I asked.

> >> Who are the mystery guests that were PEEPING in on Big D and the
> >> gang's conversation in the Aztlan post?

These are the guys at the VERY END of the book after Har and Dunk and
Jungle Cat had signed off.

I know all about The Cabal. I've read the threads myself.

Vael
Message no. 7
From: Droopy <droopy@*******.NB.NET>
Subject: Re: Aztlan Watchers
Date: Thu, 31 Oct 1996 13:39:54 +0000
Steve said:

> Jungle cat is the only big mystery among the named guests, as well as the
> two unnamed watchers that were hidden from _these_ powerful beings...

You mean Tom and Mike? <G> As for those two, we can gather certain
things:
1) they are also immortal
2) they are generally 'good' in nature
3) they know the others on some level
4) they are unafraid of the others knowing that they exist

As a guess, I'd say that the two were Leonardo and his assistant.
They have the power and the disposition to do such a thing.


--Droopy
droopy@**.net
Message no. 8
From: Max Rible <cheshire@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: Aztlan Watchers
Date: Thu, 31 Oct 1996 10:59:10 -0800
At 00:04 10/31/96 -0500, Bull wrote:
>>> Who are the mystery guests that were peeping in on Big D and the
>>> gang's conversation in the Aztlan post?
>>
>>lets see....Dunkelzahn, Harlequin, Ehran the Scribe, Alachia were
>>participants, though I don't recall the rest right now. Anyone know
>>(or guess) who Osmundo is?

>Usmondo appears to be an immortal elf from Azania...

The best suggestion I've heard for Umsondo is that he's the Theran Sphinx
(from the tale of Jaron and the Sphinx in the Earthdawn sourcebook).
Certainly, he seems to have a special status as a Watcher.

For the best analysis of the Aztlan sourcebook, take a look at this
link from Paolo Marcucci's archive:

http://151.99.226.3:80/scripts/sr/display.pl?cat=REVIEWS&page=reviews/aztlan.htm
--
%%% Max Rible %%% cheshire@*****.com %%% http://www.amurgsval.org/~cheshire %%%
%%% "Before enlightenment: sharpen claws, catch mice. %%%
%%% After enlightenment: sharpen claws, catch mice." - me %%%
Message no. 9
From: Sight Unseen <toabo@****.UTEXAS.EDU>
Subject: Re: Aztlan Watchers
Date: Thu, 31 Oct 1996 21:37:08 -0500
At 01:39 PM 10/31/96 +0000, you wrote:
>Steve said:
>
>> Jungle cat is the only big mystery among the named guests, as well as the
>> two unnamed watchers that were hidden from _these_ powerful beings...
>
>You mean Tom and Mike? <G> As for those two, we can gather certain
>things:
>1) they are also immortal
>2) they are generally 'good' in nature
What leads you to believe this? Perhaps you'd best explain first
what you mean by "good." Whom are these two guys "good" for?

>3) they know the others on some level
>4) they are unafraid of the others knowing that they exist

Peace and Long Life,

Scott
Message no. 10
From: Droopy <droopy@*******.NB.NET>
Subject: Re: Aztlan Watchers
Date: Sun, 3 Nov 1996 00:23:05 +0000
Sight unseen said:

> >2) they are generally 'good' in nature
> What leads you to believe this? Perhaps you'd best explain first
> what you mean by "good." Whom are these two guys "good" for?

I used the quotes to represent the generally accepted idea of good in
this society. They have a certain interest in diseminating
information that is potentially helpfull to the world at large. I'd
consider that to be good in a sense.


--Droopy
droopy@**.net
Message no. 11
From: Sight Unseen <toabo@****.UTEXAS.EDU>
Subject: Re: Aztlan Watchers
Date: Sun, 3 Nov 1996 18:37:21 -0500
At 12:23 AM 11/3/96 +0000, you wrote:
>Sight unseen said:
>
>> >2) they are generally 'good' in nature
>> What leads you to believe this? Perhaps you'd best explain first
>> what you mean by "good." Whom are these two guys "good" for?
>
>I used the quotes to represent the generally accepted idea of good in
>this society. They have a certain interest in diseminating
>information that is potentially helpfull to the world at large. I'd
>consider that to be good in a sense.

Perhaps. It could also be read as a another move in this secret
power game. These two unknowned individuals might have wanted to mess with
the minds of the elves and Dunkelzahn. The group of seven might have
thought they were masked from the general public, but these two unnamed
persons stripped away that mask. Did they do it because revealing the
seven's hidden conversation would benefit the public? Perhaps. Did they do
it to frustrate the seven's plans? Perhaps.
So I don't really question that the result might have been "good"
for society in that (usually) more knowledge is better than less. I
question whether the motive for the two's action is "good" for society. Was
their purpose to help society or to furhter their own aims? If the latter,
are thier own aims "good" for society or just "good" for themselves?
For
that matter, to what end are the seven working for? Perhaps the seven work
for the "good" of metahumanity and the action of the two has set back the
seven's efforts.
Lots of questions, neh? I suppose the point I am working towards is
that it may be presumptuous to characterize these two as "good" based on one
act. It is highly probable that this action was merely one in a long
series. The two and the seven appear to be playing a global multiplayer
game of chess. The stakes are high: the victor gets to decide the course
of history. Given the Machiavellian nature of the contest, I'm hesitant to
ascribe moral characterizations upon its participants without a larger
section of the big picture.
Message no. 12
From: The Crucible <crucible@******.MUR.CSU.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: Aztlan Watchers
Date: Mon, 4 Nov 1996 09:53:11 +1100
> >Sight unseen said:
> Perhaps. It could also be read as a another move in this secret
> power game. These two unknowned individuals might have wanted to mess with
> the minds of the elves and Dunkelzahn. The group of seven might have
> thought they were masked from the general public, but these two unnamed
> persons stripped away that mask. Did they do it because revealing the
> seven's hidden conversation would benefit the public? Perhaps. Did they do
> it to frustrate the seven's plans? Perhaps.
> So I don't really question that the result might have been "good"
> for society in that (usually) more knowledge is better than less. I
> question whether the motive for the two's action is "good" for society.
Was
> their purpose to help society or to furhter their own aims? If the latter,
> are thier own aims "good" for society or just "good" for
themselves? For
> that matter, to what end are the seven working for? Perhaps the seven work
> for the "good" of metahumanity and the action of the two has set back the
> seven's efforts.

Ok... the two have been identified... one is Fox Mulder, the other Dana
Scully.... heheheh Sorry... after all this I couldnt help it.

Crucible

/----------------------------------------------------------------\
|email: |
| crucible@******.mur.csu.edu.au (Use this one first)|
| crucible@******.net |
| 94043950@********.mur.csu.edu.au (Student account) |
|homepage: http://itclub.mur.csu.edu.au/~crucible/ |
| |
| Co-founder of the save the woodchuck society. |
\----------------------------------------------------------------/
Message no. 13
From: Sight Unseen <toabo@****.UTEXAS.EDU>
Subject: Re: Aztlan Watchers
Date: Sun, 3 Nov 1996 21:18:34 -0500
At 09:53 AM 11/4/96 +1100, you wrote:
>> >Sight unseen said:
>> Perhaps. It could also be read as a another move in this secret
>> power game. These two unknowned individuals might have wanted to mess with
>> the minds of the elves and Dunkelzahn. The group of seven might have
>> thought they were masked from the general public, but these two unnamed
>> persons stripped away that mask. Did they do it because revealing the
>> seven's hidden conversation would benefit the public? Perhaps. Did they do
>> it to frustrate the seven's plans? Perhaps.
>> So I don't really question that the result might have been
"good"
>> for society in that (usually) more knowledge is better than less. I
>> question whether the motive for the two's action is "good" for society.
Was
>> their purpose to help society or to furhter their own aims? If the latter,
>> are thier own aims "good" for society or just "good" for
themselves? For
>> that matter, to what end are the seven working for? Perhaps the seven work
>> for the "good" of metahumanity and the action of the two has set back
the
>> seven's efforts.
>
>Ok... the two have been identified... one is Fox Mulder, the other Dana
>Scully.... heheheh Sorry... after all this I couldnt help it.
>
>Crucible

Nah, I doubt it. Mulder woul've had to have made one of his
self-righteous comments about revealing the truth.

Peace and Long Life,

Scott
Message no. 14
From: Droopy <droopy@*******.NB.NET>
Subject: Re: Aztlan Watchers
Date: Sun, 3 Nov 1996 23:42:52 +0000
Sight Unseen said:

> of history. Given the Machiavellian nature of the contest, I'm hesitant to
> ascribe moral characterizations upon its participants without a larger
> section of the big picture.

Much more of the picture is there. We know that Dunkelzahn wanted to
tell the world everything for it's own protection. We also know that
the other immortals warned him not to, though I'm not sure that all
of them had less than altruistic motives.

Harlequin, for instance, has put himself on the line several times when
the others idly sat by.

As for the two, we don't know anything else about them specificly,
but you can only judge them by their actions to date.


--Droopy
I still think the two are Leo and his assistant.
droopy@**.net
Message no. 15
From: Sight Unseen <toabo@****.UTEXAS.EDU>
Subject: Re: Aztlan Watchers
Date: Mon, 4 Nov 1996 03:31:55 -0500
>Much more of the picture is there. We know that Dunkelzahn wanted to
>tell the world everything for it's own protection. We also know that
>the other immortals warned him not to, though I'm not sure that all
>of them had less than altruistic motives.
>
>Harlequin, for instance, has put himself on the line several times when
>the others idly sat by.
I would hardly characterize that as "much more", but let's not
quibble about semantics. Dunkelzahn is (arguably) "good." The same
contention can be made about Harlequin. We also know that the other members
of the Seven Atzlan Watchers have disagreed with these two. The implication
could be drawn that these quarrels have even lead them to take active
efforts to frustrate one another's plans. The members of this group clearly
has some fundamental differences between them.
Yet the Two are separate from this group. Why is that? We just
don't know. But there must be a reason for their secrecy. And as runners
we know that many times you will find evil shrouded in the shadows.

>As for the two, we don't know anything else about them specificly,
>but you can only judge them by their actions to date.

Perhaps I'm paranoid and distrustful, but I would not rely on one
observed act (motivated by unknown mens) to induce the underlying moral
fortitude.
Message no. 16
From: Bull <chaos@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: Aztlan Watchers
Date: Mon, 4 Nov 1996 01:22:25 -0500
[Snip the same 20+ lines of unrelated material as before.]

>>Ok... the two have been identified... one is Fox Mulder, the other Dana
>>Scully.... heheheh Sorry... after all this I couldnt help it.
>>
>>Crucible
>
> Nah, I doubt it. Mulder woul've had to have made one of his
>self-righteous comments about revealing the truth.
>
>Peace and Long Life,
>
>Scott
>
Just so Cruc doesn't think I'm picking on him, you're another one, Scott.
Please snip a bit, the original post had nothing to do with you're response
to Crucible...:)

Geez... Now I'm starting to sound all crotchety. Sorry... I'll go back to
watching Matlock and old westerns... and I think it's time for my nap...

Where'd I put my cane...?

-Bull-the-must-be-getting-old-decker-turned-GM
Message no. 17
From: Sight Unseen <toabo@****.UTEXAS.EDU>
Subject: Re: Aztlan Watchers
Date: Mon, 4 Nov 1996 04:38:45 -0500
[Snip! me and Crucible]

>Just so Cruc doesn't think I'm picking on him, you're another one, Scott.
>Please snip a bit, the original post had nothing to do with you're response
>to Crucible...:)
>
>Geez... Now I'm starting to sound all crotchety. Sorry... I'll go back to
>watching Matlock and old westerns... and I think it's time for my nap...
>
>Where'd I put my cane...?
>
>-Bull-the-must-be-getting-old-decker-turned-GM
>
Sigh. OK, Mr. Lifeguard. We'll stop splashing in the pool. <g>

Further Reading

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