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Message no. 1
From: "J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Back off of Barbie Please (Re: silly edges and dumb flaws)
Date: Fri, 6 Feb 1998 17:24:15 EST
In a message dated 98-02-06 15:05:33 EST, t_berghoff@*********.NETSURF.DE
writes:

> LOL! The problem is that at some point the char shouldn't be able to
> improve anymore. But would a kind of "constant" char be that much fun?
> Same with the shaper/cyber thing. If the rest of the group is at that
> powerlevel (And I assume they are), the (logical) cyber-rejection would
> have left the char at the losing end (And from what I know, Barbie doesn't
> the people-always-lose-approach).
> What do you do, when you have everything?
>
> Tobias Berghoff a.k.a Zixx a.k.a. Charon, your friendly werepanther physad.
>
You walk around and discover you aren't at the end of the spectrum yet.
Barbie plays the way she does, and I will not ever fault her for that. Now
how everyone else plays is something else entirely...Us???

We've got magics in the game that can alleviate recuperative powers (Regen
Stasis) and we have ways of making Cyberware that is so keyed into a person,
that it will function with a shaper even (completely HOUSE RULE of course).
Even the 'flaws' of Bio-rejection can be circumvented if you have the
patience, resources or power (or some combination of the three) to pull it
off.

The only thing to remember is "Is everyone still having fun?"

-K
Message no. 2
From: Barbie <barbie@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: Back off of Barbie Please (Re: silly edges and dumb flaws)
Date: Sat, 7 Feb 1998 23:26:11 +0100
At 06-Feb-98 wrote J. Keith Henry:


>>
>You walk around and discover you aren't at the end of the spectrum yet.
>Barbie plays the way she does, and I will not ever fault her for that. Now
>how everyone else plays is something else entirely...Us???

Exactly

Ever heard me telling you or others how to play???

--

Barbie
---------------------------------------------------------------
Did you know what a rhinoceros is?
All that is left from the unicorn.

http://www.amigaworld.com/barbie
FAQ keeper of SR_D, the german Shadowrun mailing list.
Amiga RC5 Team effort member.
---------------------------------------------------------------
Message no. 3
From: Zixx <t_berghoff@*********.NETSURF.DE>
Subject: Re: Back off of Barbie Please (Re: silly edges and dumb flaws)
Date: Sun, 8 Feb 1998 21:29:23 +0000
On 6 Feb 98 at 17:24, J. Keith Henry wrote:

> In a message dated 98-02-06 15:05:33 EST, t_berghoff@*********.NETSURF.DE
> writes:
>
> > LOL! The problem is that at some point the char shouldn't be able to
> > improve anymore. But would a kind of "constant" char be that much
fun?
> > Same with the shaper/cyber thing. If the rest of the group is at that
> > powerlevel (And I assume they are), the (logical) cyber-rejection would
> > have left the char at the losing end (And from what I know, Barbie doesn't
> > the people-always-lose-approach).
> > What do you do, when you have everything?
> >
> > Tobias Berghoff a.k.a Zixx a.k.a. Charon, your friendly werepanther physad.
> >
> You walk around and discover you aren't at the end of the spectrum yet.
> Barbie plays the way she does, and I will not ever fault her for that. Now
> how everyone else plays is something else entirely...Us???

Don't get me wrong. I was not bashing on anyone, just explained how that
situations arise. See Binder got everything magical SR offers (except for
toxics/bug, though I'm not sure here). So what do you do`? You expand the
system to play with new stuff. Sammy-players write new weapons, mages write
new spells and new magical theories. It's that simple. It's no fun to be
stuck at a level, never to improve anymore and RPG's are meant to be fun.
One thing to keep in mind is that those "extensions" are nothing for
low-leveled groups. If I let half of the magical stuff you do loose on a
karma 1 group, they'd go down in notime. At a certain point you leave logic
behind and create your own little universe, built around your characters.
There's nothing wrong with it. But if I, e.g., gave some muchies the same
rules to play with, all hell would break loose. Sane players would ignore
them. Until they reach a level where everything else is boring and usual.

> We've got magics in the game that can alleviate recuperative powers (Regen
> Stasis) and we have ways of making Cyberware that is so keyed into a person,
> that it will function with a shaper even (completely HOUSE RULE of course).
> Even the 'flaws' of Bio-rejection can be circumvented if you have the
> patience, resources or power (or some combination of the three) to pull it
> off.
>
> The only thing to remember is "Is everyone still having fun?"

Yup. What strikes me is that sometimes people will rework a system they
used for years completely to get just some stuff for two month of playing
with thier old chars out of it. They write really lame excuses for things
that let them go on just a bit more. But hell, it's a game. So fraggin'
what?


Tobias Berghoff a.k.a Zixx a.k.a. Charon, your friendly werepanther physad.

-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK------------
GAT/CS/S/IT d--- s+:- !a>? C++(++++)
UL++(++++) P+ L++ E W+ N+(+++) o? K?(-)
w---() O- M-- V- PS+ PE- Y+>++ PGP-
t+(++) 5+ X++ R* tv b++ DI(+) D++ G>++
e>+++++(*) h! r-- z?
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK-------------
Message no. 4
From: "Ojaste,James [NCR]" <James.Ojaste@**.GC.CA>
Subject: Re: Back off of Barbie Please (Re: silly edges and dumb flaws)
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 10:47:03 -0500
Zixx[SMTP:t_berghoff@*********.NETSURF.DE] wrote:
> On 6 Feb 98 at 17:24, J. Keith Henry wrote:
>
> > In a message dated 98-02-06 15:05:33 EST, t_berghoff@*********.NETSURF.DE
> > writes:
> >
> > > LOL! The problem is that at some point the char shouldn't be able to
> > > improve anymore. But would a kind of "constant" char be that
much fun?
[snip]
> > > What do you do, when you have everything?
> > >
> > You walk around and discover you aren't at the end of the spectrum yet.
> > Barbie plays the way she does, and I will not ever fault her for that.
Now
> > how everyone else plays is something else entirely...Us???
>
> Don't get me wrong. I was not bashing on anyone, just explained how that
> situations arise. See Binder got everything magical SR offers (except for
> toxics/bug, though I'm not sure here). So what do you do`? You expand the
> system to play with new stuff. Sammy-players write new weapons, mages write
> new spells and new magical theories. It's that simple. It's no fun to be
> stuck at a level, never to improve anymore and RPG's are meant to be fun.

There are several ways of improving. I'm playing a SRII char now
(a physad) who currently has around a couple of dozen karma. So
far, he's spent 3. Oh, sorry, 6. I'm also playing a BGC char
(Fuzion system) who's got about 20 cp - he's spent 5. These are
just characters who aren't too concerned with advancing. Sure
they'll work towards it, but slowly. They're more concerned with
advancing their spiritual/social lives (respectively :-) ).

> One thing to keep in mind is that those "extensions" are nothing for
> low-leveled groups. If I let half of the magical stuff you do loose on a
> karma 1 group, they'd go down in notime. At a certain point you leave logic
> behind and create your own little universe, built around your characters.

That's why I play Amber (ok, so I have no life, shoot me!). :-)

I don't think that playing gross characters in SRII is *wrong*,
just a little misguided perhaps... SRII just isn't meant to
scale that high - if I were ever GMing a game that got to that
level, I'd switch the whole thing over to Amber, which *is* meant
to deal with that level of grossness. I mean, come on. When the
characters are *that* good, why not take over the world?

James Ojaste
Message no. 5
From: "Leszek Karlik, aka Mike" <trrkt@*****.ONET.PL>
Subject: Re: Back off of Barbie Please (Re: silly edges and dumb flaws)
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 22:54:19 +0000
On 9 Feb 98, Ojaste,James [NCR] disseminated foul capitalist
propaganda by writing:

<snip>

> > One thing to keep in mind is that those "extensions" are nothing for
> > low-leveled groups. If I let half of the magical stuff you do loose on a
> > karma 1 group, they'd go down in notime. At a certain point you leave logic
> > behind and create your own little universe, built around your characters.
>
> That's why I play Amber (ok, so I have no life, shoot me!). :-)

Hell, I play that too... As a matter of fact, I run it! (And no, I
have no life. I have a Geek Code Block instead. ;P)

> I don't think that playing gross characters in SRII is *wrong*, just
> a little misguided perhaps... SRII just isn't meant to scale that
> high - if I were ever GMing a game that got to that level, I'd
> switch the whole thing over to Amber, which *is* meant to deal with
> that level of grossness. I mean, come on. When the characters are
> *that* good, why not take over the world?

Besides, SRII mechanics tend to, well, break at very high levels. Or
very low levels, for that matter...

And you're never *that* good. If you think you are, my pa here wants
to meet you.

Meet Benedict.

;>


Leszek Karlik, aka Mike - trrkt@*****.onet.pl; http://www.wlkp.top.pl/~bear/mike;
Amber fan and Star Wars junkie; UIN 6947998; WTF TKD; FIAWOL; YMMV; IMAO; SNAFU; TANJ
Geek Code v3.1 GL/O d- s+: a19 C+++ W-(++) N+++ K? w(---) O@ M- PS+(+++) PE Y+
PGP- !t--- 5+(-) X- R*+++>$ tv-- b++++ D+ G-- e h--*! !r-- !y-*
HEY LOOK, Ifixxedthat spacebarproblem. ohdarn.
Message no. 6
From: Zixx <t_berghoff@*********.NETSURF.DE>
Subject: Re: Back off of Barbie Please (Re: silly edges and dumb flaws)
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 22:29:38 +0000
On 9 Feb 98 at 10:47, Ojaste,James [NCR] wrote:

> Zixx[SMTP:t_berghoff@*********.NETSURF.DE] wrote:
> > On 6 Feb 98 at 17:24, J. Keith Henry wrote:
> > Don't get me wrong. I was not bashing on anyone, just explained how that
> > situations arise. See Binder got everything magical SR offers (except for
> > toxics/bug, though I'm not sure here). So what do you do`? You expand the
> > system to play with new stuff. Sammy-players write new weapons, mages write
> > new spells and new magical theories. It's that simple. It's no fun to be
> > stuck at a level, never to improve anymore and RPG's are meant to be fun.
>
> There are several ways of improving. I'm playing a SRII char now
> (a physad) who currently has around a couple of dozen karma. So
> far, he's spent 3. Oh, sorry, 6. I'm also playing a BGC char
> (Fuzion system) who's got about 20 cp - he's spent 5. These are
> just characters who aren't too concerned with advancing. Sure
> they'll work towards it, but slowly. They're more concerned with
> advancing their spiritual/social lives (respectively :-) ).

Well, Some of my players do that ATM (I'm really happy the guy with the
most karma descided to do it. ;)) And I think it's a good thing. The higher
karma-pool will do the trick most of the time and besides, yu don't have
that much time for training, anyway.

> > One thing to keep in mind is that those "extensions" are nothing for
> > low-leveled groups. If I let half of the magical stuff you do loose on a
> > karma 1 group, they'd go down in notime. At a certain point you leave logic
> > behind and create your own little universe, built around your characters.
>
> That's why I play Amber (ok, so I have no life, shoot me!). :-)

<BANG!> O.K.?

> I don't think that playing gross characters in SRII is *wrong*,
> just a little misguided perhaps... SRII just isn't meant to
> scale that high - if I were ever GMing a game that got to that
> level, I'd switch the whole thing over to Amber, which *is* meant
> to deal with that level of grossness. I mean, come on. When the
> characters are *that* good, why not take over the world?

I get the feeling it's a good thing I never tried Amber....

Tobias Berghoff a.k.a Zixx a.k.a. Charon, your friendly werepanther physad.

-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK------------
GAT/CS/S/IT d--- s+:- !a>? C++(++++)
UL++(++++) P+ L++ E W+ N+(+++) o? K?(-)
w---() O- M-- V- PS+ PE- Y+>++ PGP-
t+(++) 5+ X++ R* tv b++ DI(+) D++ G>++
e>+++++(*) h! r-- z?
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK-------------

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