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Message no. 1
From: Simon Fuller sfuller@******.com.au
Subject: Barrens
Date: Sat, 4 Mar 2000 10:59:47 +1100
I have a disagreement with a friend. I say that the Redmond barrens are
worse than Puyallup, because the text and decriptions say so. He says that
Puyallup is worse because it has worse security ratings in many areas. I
think this has more to do with income and metahumans getting given less
coverage, and the areas are downright safe in comparison to the lawless
Redmond, because there is a sense of society and the gangs that enforce
their own laws are basically fair. What do you guys think?
Message no. 2
From: waylex1 waylex1@**************.co.uk
Subject: Barrens
Date: Sat, 04 Mar 2000 01:19:00 +0000
> I have a disagreement with a friend. I say that the Redmond barrens are
> worse than Puyallup, because the text and decriptions say so. He says that
> Puyallup is worse because it has worse security ratings in many areas. I
> think this has more to do with income and metahumans getting given less
> coverage, and the areas are downright safe in comparison to the lawless
> Redmond, because there is a sense of society and the gangs that enforce
> their own laws are basically fair. What do you guys think?

Thats the way I've always read it as well, seems to me like you have a vaild
case. At the end of the day though it comes down to which one of you is the GM
:)
Message no. 3
From: Adam J adamj@*********.html.com
Subject: Barrens
Date: Fri, 03 Mar 2000 18:18:27 -0700
At 10:59 3/4/00 +1100, Simon Fuller wrote:
>I have a disagreement with a friend. I say that the Redmond barrens are
>worse than Puyallup, because the text and decriptions say so. He says that
>Puyallup is worse because it has worse security ratings in many areas. I
>think this has more to do with income and metahumans getting given less
>coverage, and the areas are downright safe in comparison to the lawless
>Redmond, because there is a sense of society and the gangs that enforce
>their own laws are basically fair. What do you guys think?

AFAIK, Puyallup has better "Communities" for meta's and suchlike, while the
Barrens is more anti-meta and pro-human.

BTW, Shadowrun Creative Resources is trying to get a project detailing the
barrens off the ground. If you're interested, checkout
http://lists.dumpshock.com/pipermail/scr/2000-February/thread.html

Adam
--
< adamj@*********.html.com / http://shadowrun.html.com/tss >
< ICQ# 2350330 / ShadowFAQ: http://shadowrun.html.com/shadowfaq >
< ShadowRN Assistant Fearless Leader / Shadowrun Creative Resources >
< FreeRPG & Shadowrun Webring Co-Admin / The Shadowrun Supplemental >
Message no. 4
From: Grim Shear grim_shear@*******.com
Subject: Barrens
Date: Fri, 03 Mar 2000 20:15:40 CST
"Simon Fuller" <sfuller@******.com.au> said:
>and the areas are downright safe in comparison to the lawless Redmond,
>because there is a sense of society and the gangs that enforce their own
>laws are basically fair. What do you guys think?


I don't know about anyone else, but in our groups campagin, Redmond sucks.
The gangs are essentially in control of the sections farher away from the KE
facility.

Go-gangs control the roads at night (during the day they're somewhat more
tame), and gangs control their turf.

Humanis is out in force, and seems to be a combo of the Humanis we all hate
and loath and the KKK (They hate elves, orks, trolls, dwarves, and
non-aryan's). They hassle Grim because he a) has a troll girlfriend and b)
is albino (a freak).

I'd say the two sections are roughly equal in "Slum Factor"

Grim Shear
"Canadians know how to make good beer. No rice alcohol means no hang over."
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Message no. 5
From: Strago strago@***.com
Subject: Barrens
Date: Fri, 03 Mar 2000 22:17:02 -0500
waylex1 wrote:

> > I have a disagreement with a friend. I say that the Redmond barrens are
> > worse than Puyallup, because the text and decriptions say so. He says that
> > Puyallup is worse because it has worse security ratings in many areas. I
> > think this has more to do with income and metahumans getting given less
> > coverage, and the areas are downright safe in comparison to the lawless
> > Redmond, because there is a sense of society and the gangs that enforce
> > their own laws are basically fair. What do you guys think?
>
> Thats the way I've always read it as well, seems to me like you have a vaild
> case. At the end of the day though it comes down to which one of you is the GM
> :)

Well, each has bad points. Puyallup has the giant lava fields and Mount Ranier and
the geysers and toxic mud, Redmond has Glow City. I'd say it's 6 of one,
half-a-dozen of the other.

--
--Strago

In Italy for thirty years under the Borgias they had warfare, terror, murder,
bloodshed - they produced Michelangelo, Leonardo da Vinci and the Renaissance. In
Switzerland they had brotherly
love, five hundred years of democracy and peace, and what did they produce? The
cuckoo clock!
-Orson Welles

SRGC v0.2 !SR1 SR2+ SR3++ h b++ B- UB- IE+ RN+ SRFF W+ sa++ ma++ ad+ m+ (o++ d+)
gm+ M P
Message no. 6
From: Simon Fuller sfuller@******.com.au
Subject: Barrens
Date: Sat, 4 Mar 2000 13:38:13 +1100
-----Original Message-----
From: Strago <strago@***.com>
To: shadowrn@*********.com <shadowrn@*********.com>
Date: Saturday, March 04, 2000 2:17 PM
Subject: Re: Barrens


>waylex1 wrote:
>
>> > I have a disagreement with a friend. I say that the Redmond barrens are
>> > worse than Puyallup, because the text and decriptions say so. He says
that
>> > Puyallup is worse because it has worse security ratings in many areas.
I
>> > think this has more to do with income and metahumans getting given less
>> > coverage, and the areas are downright safe in comparison to the lawless
>> > Redmond, because there is a sense of society and the gangs that enforce
>> > their own laws are basically fair. What do you guys think?
>>
>> Thats the way I've always read it as well, seems to me like you have a
vaild
>> case. At the end of the day though it comes down to which one of you is
the GM
>> :)
>
>Well, each has bad points. Puyallup has the giant lava fields and Mount
Ranier and
>the geysers and toxic mud, Redmond has Glow City. I'd say it's 6 of one,
>half-a-dozen of the other.
>
>--
>--Strago


I should have pointed out that I meant crime and general safety...
Message no. 7
From: Rand Ratinac docwagon101@*****.com
Subject: Barrens
Date: Sat, 4 Mar 2000 06:01:10 -0800 (PST)
> I have a disagreement with a friend. I say that the
Redmond barrens are worse than Puyallup, because the
text and decriptions say so. He says that Puyallup is
worse because it has worse security ratings in many
areas. I think this has more to do with income and
metahumans getting given less coverage, and the areas
are downright safe in comparison to the lawless
Redmond, because there is a sense of society and the
gangs that enforce their own laws are basically fair.
What do you guys think?

I don't think you can say one is worse than the other,
Simon. For one thing, they're vast areas, and each has
relatively nice spots and each has absolute hellholes.

What I think you CAN say, though, is that one is going
to be worse for certain kinds of people than the
other. Redmond is the ultimate urban jungle/war zone,
while Puyallup is a blasted, post-apocalyptic
wasteland. Both of those are generalisations, mind. As
you said, in Puyallup, there's a sense of society. But
only in some places. Try living on a sea of volcanic
glass. No community there, except for maybe a few
neighbours looking out for each other. Nothing grows
there, so it's a constant struggle to survive. I think
your typical runner is likely to have a better time in
the worst parts of Redmond than in the worst parts of
Puyallup, simply because while Redmond sucks, he
understands that suckiness. Unless he's a survival
freak, though, he'd have a tough time roughing it in
Puyallup.

There's no one answer to this one, though. Personally,
I use Redmond as my "suck zone", because I prefer the
urban jungle setting to the post-apocalyptic one.
Never been a big fan of the "after the bomb" genre.

====Doc'
(aka Mr. Freaky Big, Super-Dynamic Troll of Tomorrow, aka Doc'-booner)

S.S. f. P.S.C. & D.J.

.sig Sauer
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Message no. 8
From: . s t e f a n stefan@*****.org
Subject: Barrens
Date: Sun, 05 Mar 2000 00:25:01 +0100
>I have a disagreement with a friend. I say that the Redmond barrens are
>worse than Puyallup, because the text and decriptions say so. He says that
>Puyallup is worse because it has worse security ratings in many areas. I
>think this has more to do with income and metahumans getting given less
>coverage, and the areas are downright safe in comparison to the lawless
>Redmond, because there is a sense of society and the gangs that enforce
>their own laws are basically fair. What do you guys think?

If you go by the books it appears like Redmond is the big dump in the city.
Sure Puyallup is a dump to but it is not the outlaw wasteland of Redmond.

.stefan


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Message no. 9
From: _hEx_ iti03678@****.co.za
Subject: Barrens
Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2000 13:56:06 +0200
-----Original Message-----
From: Grim Shear <grim_shear@*******.com>
To: shadowrn@*********.com <shadowrn@*********.com>
Date: 04 March 2000 04:17
Subject: Re: Barrens


>"Simon Fuller" <sfuller@******.com.au> said:
>>and the areas are downright safe in comparison to the lawless
Redmond,
>>because there is a sense of society and the gangs that enforce their
own
>>laws are basically fair. What do you guys think?

Redmond And Payallup differ in mnay important ways. Redmond is full,
teeming with people. Payallup is emptier, with communities hudling
together for protection. Goods and services are much easier to get in
Redmond. Payallup is sort of a "rural" Barrens.

> I don't know about anyone else, but in our groups campagin, Redmond
sucks.
>The gangs are essentially in control of the sections farher away from
the KE
>facility.

Where exactly is that located? Near Touristville? This seems to have
slipped my mind. And why would the gangers care about KE? KE has no
contract to patrol the area and I think its just a training area.

> Go-gangs control the roads at night (during the day they're somewhat
more
>tame), and gangs control their turf.

> Humanis is out in force, and seems to be a combo of the Humanis we
all hate
>and loath and the KKK (They hate elves, orks, trolls, dwarves, and
>non-aryan's). They hassle Grim because he a) has a troll girlfriend
and b)
>is albino (a freak).

Redmond has a much higher human population than Payallup, so Humanis
are probably really strong there.

> I'd say the two sections are roughly equal in "Slum Factor"

Payallup isn't a slum, its more of a collection of very poor
communities with wide open spaces between them.

<hex@*************.com>
bad luck
Message no. 10
From: Mike and Jill Johnson shadowrn@******.net
Subject: Barrens
Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2000 20:23:47 -0700
This is something that I got off of Deep Resonance. I'm afraid the the
file I copied it to didn't credit the original authors and apologize for
that. However, it is some of the best write ups on the barrens that I've
seen.

--- copied from Deep Resonance ---

Ah, the Barrens. Where to begin? *evil grin*

Outside Touristville (which isn't considered part of the Barrens), most of
Redmond is Rating E. In New Seattle, this is what it says about Rating E
zones: "Lone Star does not assign patrols to such areas or make any effort
to prevent crimes from happening." Rat's Nest and Glow City are even worse,
being Z-Zones. Lone Star definitely does not go into there, and the whole
city has agreed that containing them is more productive than enforcing law
there. If a Lone Star officer does go into a Z-Zone, they get hazard pay
(three times normal pay rate) plus a week off after returning. That should
give you an idea just how bad those areas are.

During the day, the Barrens are a sad, desolute place. A fog of despair and
human misery seems to hang over the entire district. The streets are torn
and cratered, the buildings are barely standing, the housing has no running
water or heat. There are a few places worse than the Barrens (Calcutta,
Beirut), but not many, and there is no evidence from within the Barrens
that one is living in a first-world nation's boundaries. The Crash Zone is
a scar on the very face of the land, cutting just as deep and wide as the
scar on the souls of the SINless who live there.

The Barrens at night is worse. Gunfire punctuates the setting sun, as
another child dies for his shoes or her Nuke-It burger. Families huddle in
their homes, praying that tonight is not the night that local gang decides
to squat in this building, raping mothers and daughters and looting what
scant possessions a family owns, all with a sick glee. Mothers also pray
for their sons and daughters who have not come home, who have been lost to
the streets, swallowed by the violent gang culture that has risen up to
replace the lack of a social community.

Some cops do visit the Barrens at night. They pretend to be enforcing law,
but if you look closely, you can see that the pestilence in their eyes is
not about serving and protecting. They come here to live out dark
fantasies, to take advantage of people that the world does not register as
existing. No one will care about some extortion. No one will investigate a
missing child. There is a sickness in the Barrens, a sickness I personally
refer to in games to Moloch (a reference to Ginsberg's poem "Howl". Find
it, read it). So much violence and despair detaches a person, desensitizes
them. They feel unconnected, adrift. And then, in this state, the sickness
of the Barrens creeps into them, whispers dark things to them, and makes
them do bad things.

This is the Barrens as I see it. It is not a happy place.

____________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________


The Barrens make the CZ look pretty. I'd say it's up to the GM on how tough
to make the Barrens, since the adventures tend to conflict on how the
Barrens are viewed. For instance, through Dreamchipper the characters are
walking constantly around the Barrens and never get attacked (unless you
count Jack).

I think if the characters are tough, chromed, spell-slinging shadowrunners,
the masses of the Barrens most likely will leave them alone for fear of
being turned to goo. The go-gangs and thrillers are a different matter. Not
to mention organized crime. But the general huge human devil rat population
should shy away from runners who bodies scream death. Wearing an assault
rifle over your shoulder would be a good idea in such places. Concealment
works against you when others are sizing up their ability to attack you and
choosing the weakest targets.



I see the Barrens as being quite different between Redmond and Puyallup.

Redmond is busy, maniacally alive. You can get anything on the street for
enough money. The streets buzz with people. Puyallup is much more barren
and open and empty: huddled knots of people trying to survive amidst tracts
of emptiness.

In Redmond, someone may try to kill you because you, or your haircut, or a
joke you told, or the way you walked, offended them. In Puyallup, you'll
earn a look of sullen hate but the person you upset doesn't think you're
worth wasting ammunition on: ammunition is rare and expensive and only to
be expended when necessary.

In Redmond, it's crowded and busy and medical help (at least crude first
aid) is never far away. Losing a fight and getting slashed a few times is
painful and humiliating but you can stagger to the quack and get stapled
up. Okay, it'll cost, but not much, there are plenty of sawbones willing to
do basic trauma work. So, losing a fight is no big deal. In Puyallup,
getting hurt is dangerous. It's a long haul to the nearest medic and the
local wildlife will be drawn to the smell of blood and injury and fear.
Losing a fight can mean losing your life.

Redmond is more immediately dangerous in my game. Puyallup is much more
deadly if you're caught there low on food and ammo. In Redmond there's no
shortage of arrogant cocky young idiots; in Puyallup, Darwin weeded them out.

The buildings - no glass in the windows, most places. Where there is still
glass, it's in places that can afford steel mesh over the windows. And that
draws much attention.

Habitation is marked by plastic sheeting over window frames to keep the
wind and rain out. The glass went years ago. Everything flammable has been
stripped out. Fires for cooking, for light, for warmth, need fuel and fuel
is rare.

Every one of the few stores has heavy concrete obstacles that could have
come from Omaha Beach out front, to prevent ram-raiding. Windows are
covered by mesh during the day, by steel shutters during the night.
Graffiti covers everything. Gang tags, crossed out and overwritten, show
decades of street warfare's shifting boundaries.

Garbage drifts in corners and alleys. Nobody ever collects it; organic
stuff rots or is eaten by vermin, inorganic stuff gets scattered or
scavenged or just piles up. No power. No water. No sanitation. Stairwells
reek of excrement. Rain collectors of assorted levels of effectiveness are
everywhere rainwater might be foul but it's the best drinking water available.

Many residences are shantytown shacks improvised out of plastic sheeting
and other odds and ends. 'Work' is twelve-hour shifts six days a week in a
sweatshop, for a pathetic wage but enough nutrisoy (the foul stuff farmers
feed to livestock) to feed yourself and a few dependents. If you're young
and pretty you can wh*re for up-towners and earn real money like that of
course, your pimp takes most of it. If you're brave and stupid you can run
with a gang. If you're brave and smart you might get somewhere with a local
crime syndicate.

Every morning, at locations all the locals seem to know, groups of people
cluster, waiting for the trucks to come to pick a few lucky ones for 'real
work' The unlucky ones left behind? Well, there's the guy who has Mellow
Blue BTLs for sale to ease the misery of rejection and he'll give you
credit. For the first few, anyway.

A few uptown do-gooders circulate, handing out soup and sandwiches and
Bibles and religious texts. Some gladly pretend to be converted to whatever
faith will feed them. Some proudly refuse. Once in a while a do-gooder
turns up dead in a sad scatter of discarded tracts, but not too often: that
attracts unwanted attention.

Most young Barrens residents are barely literate and have trouble spelling
their own names. Some have parents who teach them better. Most do not.
Schools? What schools?

Opinions vary as to when the best time to move is. If you're afraid of
people, move by night. If you fear the ghouls and devil rats and other
wildlife that emerges by night to scavenge the day's leavings, move by day.

Weapons - openly carrying a weapon can get you killed. You've got an
assault rifle? Whoever knifes you will have serious firepower. Even if they
just cut the sling and run like hell, they win. Openly carrying large
weapons is suicide: you'll be nickel-and-dimed to death. Shotguns are
around, as are pistols, usually cheap or old weapons in poor condition.
More potent firearms are scarce. Ammunition is rare in Puyallup and not
exactly common in Redmond; it's not unheard of to see gangers paying bar
tabs with shotgun shells in Puyallup. Some brave souls make money selling
ammunition in the Barrens, but again every so often one turns up dead,
killed by someone who thought it cheaper to steal than buy.

Most Barrens residents don't have guns, but do have knives or other ways to
make life painful for anyone attacking them. Lay unwanted hands on someone
and you'll likely lose corpuscles. Whether anyone nearby weighs in to help
depends where you are: in my crowded Redmond, you could probably commit
rape and murder in a doorway and none of the passers-by would intervene. In
my Puyallup, communities are tighter-knit and strangers are regarded
suspiciously wherever they go.

____________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________

I've taken a slightly less horriffic view of much of the barrens. While
there are many parts which are like DE described, there are also parts of
the barrens that aren't so bad.... kinda like the shantytowns you'll find
in big south american cities (particularly rio)

It's where the SINless must live, and so they will do what they can to make
it as nice as they can. Which isn't much. But those areas of the Barrens
which are close to major grids will have power (pirated from lines or
private houses) and possibly even cable, telephone is much less likely as
is running water. Cisterns on the roof will provide some water, and some of
the more industrious buildings will even have HOT water and possibly
flushing toilets (because sewer systems don't go away.... now the refuse
may only get a block or 2 to the nearest overflow point, but at least its
out of your building.

Some gangs or organized crime syndicates will set up "safe" houses for
which they charge exorbitant rates to people who could not otherwise
qualify for houseing (no credit, lack of SIN, etc.) And provide guards and
some basic services... essentially a guarded flophouse. Beyond those fringe
areas are the gang territories and the dealers and and and as DE so
eloquently described.

Further Reading

If you enjoyed reading about Barrens, you may also be interested in:

Disclaimer

These messages were posted a long time ago on a mailing list far, far away. The copyright to their contents probably lies with the original authors of the individual messages, but since they were published in an electronic forum that anyone could subscribe to, and the logs were available to subscribers and most likely non-subscribers as well, it's felt that re-publishing them here is a kind of public service.

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