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Message no. 1
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Barrier Rating of smoke (was Re: Paralyze and Projection)
Date: Tue, 22 Apr 1997 12:31:13 +0100
Peter Andersen said on 16:43/21 Apr 97...

Before I reply to your questions, some points I'd like to bring to your
attention: 1) turn off the attachment, as several listmembers will
probably point out in less than friendly words; 2) hit Enter afetr every
70-75 characters, so your posts don't end up all on one line.
Alternarively, see if you can set a maximum line width in your mailer, so
it'll do it for you.

Now, on to the real stuff...

> In the same vein, in my last session a player attempted to use the
> X-Ray Vision spell (from Awakenings) to see through smoke what was
> filling the cabbin of an airplane. The spell description makes
> refrence to the spell successes determining the barier rating that the
> caster can see through.
> My problem: What's the barrier rating of smoke?

IMHO the problem with that spell is that it uses the Barrier Rating, which
would be fine if the spell were to make an actual hole in the wall, but I
feel it should really be limited by the thickness of the material rather
than the BR -- which are two totally different things.
Smoke would have a BR of 0, because it doesn't affect a bullet in the
least, but this is a completely unsatisfactory answer for X-Ray Vision. It
would mean the magician could look through an infinite amount of smoke
with just one success.

> This may be a little strange but it also has effect on targets such as
> trying to see through a curtain covering a door way, a tarp over an
> object, seeing through a coat to find if someone has concealed weapons,
> etc.

Same thing here, unless the coat were armored (in that case, I'd say it's
best to give it a BR equal to its highest armor rating, for the purposes
of the X-Ray Vision spell).

Maybe a solution is to modify the spell slightly, and multiply the
character's Magic Rating by the number of successes to find the thickness
of material that can be looked through, in centimeters (or if you feel
that t to be too little, in decimeters). This would make the spell of
little use in smoke, because but of much more use against walls, curtains,
and so on.

> Since there was nothing to be discovered by using the spell, I
> recomended the player not cast it and wait until some solution has been
> found to the question.

You're too kind as a GM :) You should have let him cast it and take the
drain, and only _then_ inform him that nothing could be seen on the other
side of the smoke. Which might have been interpreted as "there's something
there but my spell doesn't reach far enough," and then you'd really have
been in business :)

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
I hate playing Solitaire by myself.
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

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Message no. 2
From: Benjamin Pflugmann
Subject: Re: Barrier Rating of smoke (was Re: Paralyze and Projection)
Date: Tue, 22 Apr 1997 17:21:15 +0100
> > In the same vein, in my last session a player attempted to use the
> > X-Ray Vision spell (from Awakenings) to see through smoke what was
> > filling the cabbin of an airplane. The spell description makes
> > refrence to the spell successes determining the barier rating that the
> > caster can see through.
> > My problem: What's the barrier rating of smoke?
>
> IMHO the problem with that spell is that it uses the Barrier Rating, which
> would be fine if the spell were to make an actual hole in the wall, but I
> feel it should really be limited by the thickness of the material rather
> than the BR -- which are two totally different things.

I agree here.

> Smoke would have a BR of 0, because it doesn't affect a bullet in the
> least, but this is a completely unsatisfactory answer for X-Ray Vision. It
> would mean the magician could look through an infinite amount of smoke
> with just one success.

Hm. Where is the problem? Same with heat-sight. If the smoke is cold, there
is only a little malus onseeing thourgh it with heat-sight.

I do not know the spell description. For me, there are two possibilities:

1. The spell should behave as if the user would have REAL X-ray sight. Then
the using barriers values for this spell is a strange thing. It would
make more sense too look, where X-rays go through and where not. Smoke
should be no problem (even several hundred meters). I guess metals would
be the thing that stop X-rays most of all, since they are em-waves.

2. The spell has nothing to do with X-rays and the name was chosen because
it was intended to describe the effect of the spell best. So taking the
barrier value is IMHO ok, since this is the way the spell has been
created. Another thing is if a GM want's to allow such a spell.

> > This may be a little strange but it also has effect on targets such as
> > trying to see through a curtain covering a door way, a tarp over an
> > object, seeing through a coat to find if someone has concealed weapons,
> > etc.
>
> Same thing here, unless the coat were armored (in that case, I'd say it's
> best to give it a BR equal to its highest armor rating, for the purposes
> of the X-Ray Vision spell).

I agree. In case of spell no. 2 one should consider the armour as barrier.
In case of no 1. The armour would only stop the sight if it constists of
metal.

> Maybe a solution is to modify the spell slightly, and multiply the
> character's Magic Rating by the number of successes to find the thickness
> of material that can be looked through, in centimeters (or if you feel
> that t to be too little, in decimeters). This would make the spell of
> little use in smoke, because but of much more use against walls, curtains,
> and so on.

Hm. If you consider real X-rays, the whole mass would be of interest, not
the thickness (and metal is another thing). So 1 meter of stone would be
something like 100-1000 meters of smoke or so. And there is no problem to
see with X-Rays through one meter stone. Another thing is, that in most
places, where X-Rays are used (think of airports), the intensity is very
little. Using this, the 1 meter think stone could be a problem (I do not
know, would have to look for it), but never, NEVER 10 meters of smoke would
be a problem.

With spell no. 2 the above change would make just another spell. I think
that this spells bad side would be, that you can see through almost
everything as long as it is not too thick.

By the way... what is the target number for this spell?

Other opinions?

Bye,

Benjamin.
--
pfb08188@*****.physik.uni-regensburg.de
benjamin@*****.leibniz.in-passau.de
Message no. 3
From: Brett Borger <SwiftOne@***.EDU>
Subject: Re: Barrier Rating of smoke (was Re: Paralyze and Projection)
Date: Wed, 23 Apr 1997 22:52:18 GMT
>1. The spell should behave as if the user would have REAL X-ray sight. Then
> the using barriers values for this spell is a strange thing. It would
> make more sense too look, where X-rays go through and where not. Smoke
> should be no problem (even several hundred meters). I guess metals would
> be the thing that stop X-rays most of all, since they are em-waves.

Really? It was my ignorant opinion that lead was commonly used to block
X-rays because of it's density....I thought the spell designers used BR
since it had a common sense (not necessarily totally correct though)
relation to density.

-=SwiftOne=-

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