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Message no. 1
From: Justin Pinnow <vanyel@*******.NET>
Subject: Barrier Spells IMO (LONG)
Date: Thu, 7 Aug 1997 03:18:20 -0400
Here are the clarifications I came up with for Barrier spells. I am
looking for some insightful feedback. Except where noted, I stuck with
what I felt was the spirit of the rules. I hope I don't offend anyone by
posting these to the list. Your comments are welcome. :)

Thanks,

Justin :)


---------------------------------------------------

***Barrier Spells***

Barrier spells are a great addition to the Shadowrun universe, but they
lack the proper explanations and rules to cover precisely how they are
utilized, thus several house rules are necessary. I will cover the rules
for the specific barrier spells individually, followed by some general
rules that apply to all Barrier spells.

Barrier:

This spell requires one success (TN 6) to erect a Barrier with a barrier
rating equal to its Force. Every additional success generated adds 1 point
to its barrier rating. The barrier produced protects against physical
attacks, but not against magical ones. The exception to this is when it
comes to Damaging Manipulation spells. Since Damaging Manipulation spells
travel primarily on the physical plane and are blocked by physical objects,
they are also blocked by a Barrier spell. Also, anything that is the size
of a molecule or smaller may pass through the Barrier unhindered (such as
air and gasses). Monofilament whips do NOT pass through a Barrier spell
unresisted.

When trying to fire through a Barrier (targeting someone on the other side
of the Barrier), you treat its barrier rating as the appropriate type of
armor to resist the attack (ballistic for bullets, impact for arrows,
etc.). When figuring whether or not a projectile successfully passes
through a Barrier spell, do NOT apply any modifiers for special ammunition
(gel, stun, armor piercing, explosive, etc.), Dikote, Monofilament wire,
Elemental Effects, or for the fire mode being used. The Barrier spell
resists each projectile individually, thus one bullet may get through,
while the rest of a burst may not, etc. In effect, the Barrier is
attempting to slow down the projectile to the point at which it stops and
falls to the ground due to lack of inertia. Thus, it doesn't matter how
many bullets or arrows are passing through the Barrier spell at once, nor
does it matter what the special qualities of the projectiles are. If the
armor provided by the Barrier spell is enough to stop the projectile, then
it is stopped somewhere within the Barrier and falls harmlessly to the
ground, (or just stops and fizzles out in the case of Damaging
Manipulations) leaving both the projectile and the Barrier spell in perfect
condition (except for those fizzled out Damaging Manipulations).
Otherwise, take what remains of the power level of the attack and add any
modifiers for special ammunition, Dikote, and/or monowire. If enough
bullets pass through the barrier and are directed at the same target to
warrant a burst, then add burst fire modifications as well. At this point,
the target resists the damage as normal (i.e. subtract your appropriate
armor rating from the remaining power level of the attack and resist with
your Body attribute). Of course, you can still use Combat Pool to dodge
the attack, if so desired (if you don't think the Barrier will hold, etc.).
Elemental Effects take full effect upon any appropriate targets after
passing through a Barrier spell, but do NOT affect the Barrier in any way.
If a projectile successfully passes through a Barrier spell, it does NOT
degrade the barrier rating of the Barrier spell.

This may lead you to ask how to take down a Barrier spell if all your
attacks simply pass right though it (albeit with some resistance). This is
all a matter of what you are targeting. If you are firing through a
Barrier spell, you are targeting someone/something on the other side of the
Barrier, and your attack will be resisted as above. If, however, you wish
to attempt to attack the Barrier spell itself, you may treat the Barrier as
your target. This is difficult to do, but it can be done with a powerful
enough attack. In this case, the Barrier spell is treated as if it had a
barrier rating equal to twice normal (herein referred to as barrier rating
(x 2) ). Subtract the power rating of the attack from the barrier rating
(x 2) of the spell (when targeting a Barrier spell, all modifiers for
ammunition type, Dikote, monofilament wire, and fire mode DO apply). If
there is anything left over for the power level of the attack, subtract
that amount from the barrier rating ( x 2) of the spell. One-half of the
subtracted amount (round in the favor of the Barrier spell) is also
subtracted from the singular barrier rating of the spell.

Damaging Manipulations can be used to target a Barrier spell in this manner
as well, but the Barrier spell is treated as only having a barrier rating
equal to its singular barrier rating, not barrier rating (x 2). While you
cannot attack a Barrier spell with any other types of spells, you can
attempt to Dispel a Barrier according to the standard rules.

Melee attacks follow the same rules as ranged attacks when it comes to
determining whether they are able to pass through the Barrier spell. Melee
attacks can also target a Barrier spell in an attempt to take the spell
down (adjustments for Dikote and monofilament wire DO apply). Follow the
same rules for taking down a Barrier spell with a ranged attack, but use
its singular barrier rating, not barrier rating (x 2). A Barrier spell
cannot be targeted by any form of attack other than what it protects
against (except for Dispelling or when being attacked by a Spirit or
Astrally Projecting Magician). Barrier spells do not provide any
protection on the Astral Plane.

Bullet Barrier

The Bullet Barrier spell works the same as a standard Barrier spell, but
only protects against bullets and other ballistic attacks. Thus, arrows,
thrown weapons, melee attacks, and spells aren't affected in any way by
this spell. A Bullet Barrier spell cannot be targeted by any form of
attack other than what it protects against (except for Dispelling or when
being attacked by a Spirit or Astrally Projecting Magician). Bullet
Barrier spells do not provide any protection on the Astral Plane.

Blade Barrier

The Blade Barrier spell works the same as a standard Barrier spell, but
only protects against edged weapon attacks (knives, throwing knives,
swords, axes, etc.). Bullets, arrows, spells, and non-edged weapons are
not affected in any way by this spell. A Blade Barrier spell cannot be
targeted by any form of attack other than what it protects against (except
for Dispelling or when being attacked by a Spirit or Astrally Projecting
Magician). Blade Barrier spells do not provide any protection on the
Astral Plane.

Blast Barrier

The Blast Barrier spell only helps protect against grenade blasts and other
non-magical explosions. The barrier rating of the spell is determined as
follows: one success (TN 6) is enough to erect a Blast Barrier with a
singular barrier rating equal to the spell's Force. Each extra success
adds 1 to the this rating. Multiply the final result by 2 to determine the
final barrier rating of the spell.

Whenever an explosion comes into contact with a Blast Barrier, compare the
current power level of the blast to the barrier rating of the spell. If
the barrier rating of the Blast Barrier is greater than the power of the
explosion, then the blast stops at the edge of the Barrier, and the barrier
rating of the spell is reduced by an amount equal to the power of the
explosion that came into contact with it. If the power level of the
explosion is greater than the barrier rating of the spell, the Blast
Barrier is destroyed. Subtract the barrier rating of the Blast Barrier
from the power level of the explosion before the spell falls. The
explosion continues on with whatever power level remains. If the power
level of the blast is equal to the barrier rating of the Blast Barrier, the
spell falls and the explosion is stopped at the edge of where the Blast
Barrier once stood. A Blast Barrier cannot be targeted by any form of
attack (except for Dispelling or when being attacked by a Spirit or
Astrally Projecting Magician). Blast Barrier spells do not provide any
protection on the Astral Plane.

Mana Barrier

A Mana Barrier protects against the passing of living beings (humans,
metahumans, spirits, dual-natured beings, and astrally protecting
Magicians) and spells (including Damaging Manipulations and active Foci).
However, it protects against living beings one way and spells another. For
protecting against the passing of living beings, the barrier rating of a
Mana Barrier spell is determined like that of a Physical Barrier. No
living being is allowed to pass through the Mana Barrier unless they are
traveling at such a speed that the force of the attack caused by their
slamming against the barrier is enough to smash it. Of course, this will
also cause damage to the being slamming into the barrier as well. If the
Mana Barrier falls because of this, the being continues traveling on, but
is slowed down. Alternately, a character can make an Unarmed Combat attack
against the Mana Barrier in an attempt to smash it. Compare the power of
the attack to the barrier rating of the spell. If the power of the attack
is less than or equal to the barrier rating of the spell, the Mana Barrier
is unaffected. If the power of the attack is greater than the barrier
rating of the spell, reduce the barrier rating by the difference. Other
possible methods of attack are Dispelling or having a Spirit or an Astrally
Perceiving or Projecting Magician engage the spell in Astral Combat, per
the normal rules. When casting spells across the barrier (firing through),
add œ of the barrier rating of the Mana Barrier (round in the favor of the
Barrier spell) to the TN of the success test to cast the spell. This
represents the attempt of the Mana Barrier to disrupt any spells that cross
it. You may also attempt to destroy the Mana Barrier by casting spells at
it. Treat this the same as attacking the Mana Barrier with Unarmed Combat.
When an active Foci comes into contact with a Mana Barrier, the Mana
Barrier attacks the Foci as if it were a Ward. Resolve the attack as per
the normal rules for Wards and Foci. A Mana Barrier spell cannot be
targeted by any form of attack other than what it protects against (except
for Dispelling or when being attacked by a Spirit or Astrally Projecting
Magician). A Mana Barrier offers its protection on both the physical and
Astral planes (On the Astral Plane, treat a Mana Barrier spell as a Ward
with a Force equal to its barrier rating.).

Spirit Barrier

A Spirit Barrier behaves the same as a Mana Barrier, except it only
protects against spirits and astrally projecting beings. Dual-natured
beings are unaffected by Spirit Barriers. Determine the barrier rating of
a Spirit Barrier the same way as you would for a Mana Barrier. A Spirit
Barrier spell cannot be targeted by any form of attack (except for
Dispelling or when being attacked by a Spirit or Astrally Projecting
Magician). A Mana Barrier offers its protection on both the physical and
Astral planes (On the Astral Plane, treat a Spirit Barrier spell as a Ward
with a Force equal to its barrier rating.).

Spell Barrier

A Spell Barrier provides protection against spells cast across it the same
way a Mana Barrier does, but does not affect living beings in any way.
Determine the barrier rating of a Spell Barrier the same way as you would
for a Mana Barrier. A Spell Barrier spell cannot be targeted by any form
of attack (except for Dispelling or when being attacked by a Spirit or
Astrally Projecting Magician). A Spell Barrier offers its protection on
both the physical and Astral planes (On the Astral Plane, treat a Spell
Barrier spell as a Ward with a Force equal to its barrier rating.).

Barrier Spells and Area of Effect

Upon being cast, any type of Barrier spell may take the shape of a dome,
wall, two-sided wedge, half circle, or any similarly simple construct. Any
shape not listed here is up to GM's discretion. Once formed, the spell may
not change shape in any way. Keep in mind that Barrier spells that protect
against spells, may not be effective if they do not completely surround the
target(s) of an incoming spell. After all, a wall in front of the target
doesn't keep a Non-Manipulation spell from traveling around the barrier and
hitting the target from behind. Manipulation spells travel in a straight
line from the casting Magician, so a wall would be completely effective in
this case. Of course, that doesn't stop the Magician from walking around
the wall and casting from there.

Personal Barrier Spells

Personal versions of all of the above Barrier spells do exist. When cast,
the Barrier forms on the exterior of the target's aura. Personal versions
of Barrier spells have a Range of Touch, and their Drain Codes are reduced
to reflect the smaller area that is covered by the spell. Outside of these
modifications, Personal Barrier spells behave exactly as their area of
effect counterparts. More details about Personal Barrier spells can be
found in the standard rules.

General Barrier Spell Rules

All types of Barrier spells appear as a shimmering field of energy on both
the physical and Astral Planes. Therefore, all ranged attacks fired though
any type of Barrier spell suffer a +1 TN visibility modifier. This
includes bullets, arrows, spells, and projectile weapons. As long as any
type of Barrier created is not completely destroyed before the caster's
next action, it can be refreshed up to its full Force at that time by the
casting Magician with the expenditure of a Simple Action. This only
applies to sustained Barrier spells, not ones that are Anchored, Quickened,
or in spell locks. (This is the only instance where I have knowlingly
contradicted the rules: per the normal rules, it doesn't take any type of
action to refresh the Barrier, it just automatically happens on the casting
Magician's action. However, after reviewing the rules, I felt that made
them too powerful. This way, the Magician sustaining the Barrier spell
cannot cast other spells without allowing the Barrier to stay degraded.)

(I did not include Bug Barrier in this document, because bugs haven't been
discovered by mainstream society in my campaign yet. However, it could be
treated exactly as if it were a Spirit Barrier spell, but only affecting
Bug Spirits.)
Message no. 2
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: Barrier Spells IMO (LONG)
Date: Thu, 7 Aug 1997 12:40:43 +0100
Justin Pinnow said on 3:18/ 7 Aug 97...

> ***Barrier Spells***
>
> Barrier spells are a great addition to the Shadowrun universe, but they
> lack the proper explanations and rules to cover precisely how they are
> utilized, thus several house rules are necessary. I will cover the rules
> for the specific barrier spells individually, followed by some general
> rules that apply to all Barrier spells.

Identifying your house rules may be a good idea, for those people who
would like a clarification but not someone else's house rules. If you
don't mind, I'll try to pick them out.

> Barrier:
>
> This spell requires one success (TN 6) to erect a Barrier with a barrier
> rating equal to its Force. Every additional success generated adds 1 point
> to its barrier rating.

That last line is a house rule.

> The barrier produced protects against physical attacks, but not against
> magical ones. The exception to this is when it comes to Damaging
> Manipulation spells. Since Damaging Manipulation spells travel
> primarily on the physical plane and are blocked by physical objects,
> they are also blocked by a Barrier spell.

Under SRII rules, DMs are not hindered by barrier spells, so that is
another house rule.

> The Barrier spell resists each projectile individually, thus one bullet
> may get through, while the rest of a burst may not, etc.

Note that this leads to a LOT of calculations when someone fires a long
burst into a barrier. That is, of course, true for all barriers, whether
they're magical or not. I suggest taking a look at the barrier rules
interpretations Damion and I came up with.

> If a projectile successfully passes through a Barrier spell, it does NOT
> degrade the barrier rating of the Barrier spell.

Unlike mundane walls.

> If, however, you wish to attempt to attack the Barrier spell itself, you
> may treat the Barrier as your target. This is difficult to do, but it
> can be done with a powerful enough attack.

Is the required power of the attack the only thing that makes it more
difficult to target a barrier? It seems so from these rules, anyway.

> In this case, the Barrier spell is treated as if it had a barrier rating
> equal to twice normal (herein referred to as barrier rating (x 2) ).
> Subtract the power rating of the attack from the barrier rating (x 2) of
> the spell (when targeting a Barrier spell, all modifiers for ammunition
> type, Dikote, monofilament wire, and fire mode DO apply). If there is
> anything left over for the power level of the attack, subtract that
> amount from the barrier rating ( x 2) of the spell. One-half of the
> subtracted amount (round in the favor of the Barrier spell) is also
> subtracted from the singular barrier rating of the spell.

This works different from attacks on barriers as SRII explains them, and
could lead to some confusion as to which barrier degrades in which manner.

> Mana Barrier
>
> A Mana Barrier protects against the passing of living beings

So _that_'s how those IEs managed to stay alive for such a long time :)

> For protecting against the passing of living beings, the barrier rating
> of a Mana Barrier spell is determined like that of a Physical Barrier.
> No living being is allowed to pass through the Mana Barrier unless they
> are traveling at such a speed that the force of the attack caused by
> their slamming against the barrier is enough to smash it.

Ouch! :)

> Of course, this will also cause damage to the being slamming into the
> barrier as well. If the Mana Barrier falls because of this, the being
> continues traveling on, but is slowed down. Alternately, a character
> can make an Unarmed Combat attack against the Mana Barrier in an attempt
> to smash it.

This isn't really in the rules AFAIK, but it stands to reason to allow it.
It'd have to be a bare-handed strike, though, without using spurs or other
implant weapons (which would pass right through the barrier IMO).

> Keep in mind that Barrier spells that protect against spells, may not be
> effective if they do not completely surround the target(s) of an
> incoming spell. After all, a wall in front of the target doesn't keep a
> Non-Manipulation spell from traveling around the barrier and hitting the
> target from behind.

That's not entirely true... in astral space, all spells travel in a
straight line, according to the mirror targeting example in SRII (page
150). The spell would hit the wall, IMHO.

> Manipulation spells travel in a straight line from the casting Magician,
> so a wall would be completely effective in this case. Of course, that
> doesn't stop the Magician from walking around the wall and casting from
> there.

Area-effect DMs would be the most useful spell to get at someone behind a
half-barrier: target it behind and beside the barrier, so the area of
effect includes the magician who is "safe" behind the barrier.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Pleasure is to be insane.
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

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Message no. 3
From: Justin Pinnow <vanyel@*******.NET>
Subject: Re: Barrier Spells IMO (LONG)
Date: Thu, 7 Aug 1997 18:13:46 -0400
> From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
> Date: Thursday, August 07, 1997 7:40 AM

> Justin Pinnow said on 3:18/ 7 Aug 97...

> > Barrier spells are a great addition to the Shadowrun universe, but they
> > lack the proper explanations and rules to cover precisely how they are
> > utilized, thus several house rules are necessary. I will cover the
rules
> > for the specific barrier spells individually, followed by some general
> > rules that apply to all Barrier spells.

> Identifying your house rules may be a good idea, for those people who
> would like a clarification but not someone else's house rules. If you
> don't mind, I'll try to pick them out.

Doh! I missed a couple. Sorry. :(

> > Barrier:

> > This spell requires one success (TN 6) to erect a Barrier with a
barrier
> > rating equal to its Force. Every additional success generated adds 1
point
> > to its barrier rating.

> That last line is a house rule.

Yes.

> > The barrier produced protects against physical attacks, but not against
> > magical ones. The exception to this is when it comes to Damaging
> > Manipulation spells. Since Damaging Manipulation spells travel
> > primarily on the physical plane and are blocked by physical objects,
> > they are also blocked by a Barrier spell.

> Under SRII rules, DMs are not hindered by barrier spells, so that is
> another house rule.

Yes, but I think there are many folks who agree that the Barrier spell
*should* block DMs. However, you are correct....it's a house rule.

> > The Barrier spell resists each projectile individually, thus one bullet
> > may get through, while the rest of a burst may not, etc.

> Note that this leads to a LOT of calculations when someone fires a long
> burst into a barrier. That is, of course, true for all barriers, whether
> they're magical or not. I suggest taking a look at the barrier rules
> interpretations Damion and I came up with.

Plug Plug. ;) Let me know where to find them and I will. :)

> > If a projectile successfully passes through a Barrier spell, it does
NOT
> > degrade the barrier rating of the Barrier spell.

> Unlike mundane walls.

Correct. But this isn't a house rule, I don't believe. Please correct me
if I am wrong. I need the help. :)

> > If, however, you wish to attempt to attack the Barrier spell itself,
you
> > may treat the Barrier as your target. This is difficult to do, but it
> > can be done with a powerful enough attack.

> Is the required power of the attack the only thing that makes it more
> difficult to target a barrier? It seems so from these rules, anyway.

Yes. I am using the whole "will it to be your target and it will be"
theory. Normally, barrier spells just do what they do and that's that.
However, either you allow characters to be able to attack barriers somehow,
or you don't. I go for the first of the two options. However, it's hard
game mechanics-wise to explain why someone can target a Barrier spell when
normally, it would be difficult to justify taking a spell out with a
bullet. ;) Thus, I just say it's a matter of will. But I don't require a
willpower check. I just basically make it hard to do (however, the rules
already make it hard to do, so it's not really a house rule). More like a
justification. But it works. :)

> > In this case, the Barrier spell is treated as if it had a barrier
rating
> > equal to twice normal (herein referred to as barrier rating (x 2) ).
> > Subtract the power rating of the attack from the barrier rating (x 2)
of
> > the spell (when targeting a Barrier spell, all modifiers for ammunition
> > type, Dikote, monofilament wire, and fire mode DO apply). If there is
> > anything left over for the power level of the attack, subtract that
> > amount from the barrier rating ( x 2) of the spell. One-half of the
> > subtracted amount (round in the favor of the Barrier spell) is also
> > subtracted from the singular barrier rating of the spell.

> This works different from attacks on barriers as SRII explains them, and
> could lead to some confusion as to which barrier degrades in which
manner.

I treat each spell seperately. They have common rules and such, but how
powerful they are depend on what they defend against. Could you make some
suggestions as to how to better integrate these rules with the ones in the
book?

> > Mana Barrier

> > A Mana Barrier protects against the passing of living beings

> So _that_'s how those IEs managed to stay alive for such a long time :)

*Thwap* ;) I KNEW someone was gonna interpret that the wrong way. I just
couldn't come up with a good alternative for the word "passing".

> > For protecting against the passing of living beings, the barrier rating
> > of a Mana Barrier spell is determined like that of a Physical Barrier.
> > No living being is allowed to pass through the Mana Barrier unless they
> > are traveling at such a speed that the force of the attack caused by
> > their slamming against the barrier is enough to smash it.

> Ouch! :)

Yeah, but it's canon. I just spelled it out for ya. :)

> > Of course, this will also cause damage to the being slamming into the
> > barrier as well. If the Mana Barrier falls because of this, the being
> > continues traveling on, but is slowed down. Alternately, a character
> > can make an Unarmed Combat attack against the Mana Barrier in an
attempt
> > to smash it.

> This isn't really in the rules AFAIK, but it stands to reason to allow
it.
> It'd have to be a bare-handed strike, though, without using spurs or
other
> implant weapons (which would pass right through the barrier IMO).

Yeah, it's a house rule, I guess...but it makes sense. I can't see why you
shouldn't be able to attack it with Unarmed Combat. However, I would allow
spurs (bone lacing, etc.) because you paid essense for them and they are a
part of you. Otherwise, what do you do with bone lacing? ;) It's just
easier that way. Besides, there are precidents for this with targeting
with cybereyes, etc.

> > Keep in mind that Barrier spells that protect against spells, may not
be
> > effective if they do not completely surround the target(s) of an
> > incoming spell. After all, a wall in front of the target doesn't keep
a
> > Non-Manipulation spell from traveling around the barrier and hitting
the
> > target from behind.

> That's not entirely true... in astral space, all spells travel in a
> straight line, according to the mirror targeting example in SRII (page
> 150). The spell would hit the wall, IMHO.

Hmm. Yeah, that's what I thought too. However, it just seemed dumb.
Well, I guess you're right, actually. In order to perceive the target's
aura, you would have to look through the barrier, and the spell would take
the direct approach regardless. I will change this.

> > Manipulation spells travel in a straight line from the casting
Magician,
> > so a wall would be completely effective in this case. Of course, that
> > doesn't stop the Magician from walking around the wall and casting from
> > there.

> Area-effect DMs would be the most useful spell to get at someone behind a
> half-barrier: target it behind and beside the barrier, so the area of
> effect includes the magician who is "safe" behind the barrier.

Nifty, eh? :)

Any other suggestions? See why these really needed some clarifications?
Whew.

Thanks, Gurth for your help. :)

> --
> Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html

Justin :)
Message no. 4
From: "J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Barrier Spells IMO (LONG)
Date: Thu, 7 Aug 1997 20:02:49 -0400
Justin, I have read your post, I just had trouble getting it to "copy" into
the reply, so I apologize. I felt I had to reply though...

The only problems I have found are this....

Barrier Overpower...though I understand the "want" to do something with the
extra successes in "creating" a barrier, the "need" to do so in the
way you
have suggested (adding to the barrier's rating), leaves something out. I
haven't figured out what esxactly just yet.

Blast Barrier, I wouldn't suggest that the "2x" be applied to the net
effectiveness of the rating. Sure, it would be cool, but it would be heavily
abused.

Damaging Manipulations and Barrier, I am not entirely satisfied -personally-
with the idea that barriers function "as normal" against such. The reason
that is that the elemental effects of such barriers are usually energy states
(fire and lightning), and thus below the molecular level of existence. Those
with molecular states, like Acid, could have some modification.

But other than that, bravo, well done....
-K
Message no. 5
From: Justin Pinnow <vanyel@*******.NET>
Subject: Re: Barrier Spells IMO (LONG)
Date: Thu, 7 Aug 1997 23:28:13 -0400
> From: J. Keith Henry <Ereskanti@***.COM>
> Date: Thursday, August 07, 1997 8:02 PM

> Justin, I have read your post, I just had trouble getting it to "copy"
into
> the reply, so I apologize. I felt I had to reply though...

No apology necessary. :) I am grateful for the input. :)

> The only problems I have found are this....
>
> Barrier Overpower...though I understand the "want" to do something with
the
> extra successes in "creating" a barrier, the "need" to do so in
the way
you
> have suggested (adding to the barrier's rating), leaves something out. I
> haven't figured out what esxactly just yet.

Let me know what you come up with. I have heard that some use the extra
successes to help shape the barrier, but that's already free with the spell
description for simple stuff...which is really all you need. Besides, with
6s as the target number to get a success, there's not going to be many
force 10 physical barriers erected anytime soon. ;) I just hate to see
those extra successes with a TN of 6 go to waste.

> Blast Barrier, I wouldn't suggest that the "2x" be applied to the net
> effectiveness of the rating. Sure, it would be cool, but it would be
heavily
> abused.

Hmm....guess what I did? I was reading from the barrier rules when I typed
that, not the spell description. Thus, I unknowingly made a mistake.
However, upon thinking about it, there's no way in hell that a nearby
explosion will ever be stopped by a blast barrier. I mean, sure it's nice
to take any protection you can get, but that's not all that comforting when
shrapnel begins to sear your flesh. ;) You can't have confidence that
your barrier will keep you alive. You'll still take damage, and possibly
die, even with a decent powered Blast Barrier by the standard rules. That
just doesn't rank with the other barriers in how effective they are against
their protected type of attack. *shrug* Any other suggestions on this?
:)

> Damaging Manipulations and Barrier, I am not entirely satisfied
-personally-
> with the idea that barriers function "as normal" against such. The
reason
> that is that the elemental effects of such barriers are usually energy
states
> (fire and lightning), and thus below the molecular level of existence.
Those
> with molecular states, like Acid, could have some modification.

Ah, well, I just kept it simple to the magic is magic and can protect
against magic approach. :) Of course, a blast barrier won't do squat to
stop a Flame Bomb spell, but that's because it's not designed to. :) I
can see why you argue your point on this, and wouldn't be against allowing
DMs to be more effective against magical barriers, but I just prefer to
keep it simple (is it too late for that?) ;)

> But other than that, bravo, well done....

Thanks a ton for the words of praise. :)

> -K
Message no. 6
From: "J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Barrier Spells IMO (LONG)
Date: Fri, 8 Aug 1997 00:41:18 -0400
In a message dated 97-08-07 23:31:32 EDT, vanyel@*******.NET (Justin Pinnow)
writes:

> Hmm....guess what I did? I was reading from the barrier rules when I typed
> that, not the spell description. Thus, I unknowingly made a mistake.
> However, upon thinking about it, there's no way in hell that a nearby
> explosion will ever be stopped by a blast barrier. I mean, sure it's nice
> to take any protection you can get, but that's not all that comforting
when
> shrapnel begins to sear your flesh. ;) You can't have confidence that
> your barrier will keep you alive. You'll still take damage, and possibly
> die, even with a decent powered Blast Barrier by the standard rules. That
> just doesn't rank with the other barriers in how effective they are
against
> their protected type of attack. *shrug* Any other suggestions on this?
> :)

I have a thought, actually two. First of all, Barrier Spells are combinable
with armor on the personal level, so I thought that you could put the two
together for the fun ot it.

Also, do you remember me mentioning "Skylight" a post or two ago? He's the
one in my games with the "Doughnut" spells. Well, the same guy came up with
"Motion Barrier". The theory is that "aggressive forces" can be more
directly acted upon than passive ones. Thus, his form of the spell, which
was either a +1 or +2 category higher, I vaguely remember D3 for some reason
(second edition here), had twice its effectiveness against "Active Kinetic
Force", such as slamming at high(er) speeds or "punching" through it.
Basically, anything that had a "Speed" that exceded the Force's rating was
met with double resistance. Anything that met with half it's "Speed" rating
or below, was met with no resistance at all.

Speed in this case is referred to a "power of attack" that equalled or
exceded the force of the spell itself. It had more than a few things happen
to it. My favorite was the day the burning lava flowed through it, but the
drone with the necessary medicine didn't.

> Ah, well, I just kept it simple to the magic is magic and can protect
> against magic approach. :) Of course, a blast barrier won't do squat to
> stop a Flame Bomb spell, but that's because it's not designed to. :) I
> can see why you argue your point on this, and wouldn't be against allowing
> DMs to be more effective against magical barriers, but I just prefer to
> keep it simple (is it too late for that?) ;)

Way to late ;). And just to clarify things, I am one of the people who
suggested that DM's have at least half their effective ratings for said
purposes. I do have a question for you though. Your "Flame Bomb" example
above, why wouldn't a Blast Barrier have any effect? Or are you being picky
on the particular "elemental effect?"

> > But other than that, bravo, well done....
> Thanks a ton for the words of praise. :)

Not a problem.
-K
Message no. 7
From: Barbie <barbie@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: Barrier Spells IMO (LONG)
Date: Fri, 8 Aug 1997 06:48:25 -0500
At 07-Aug-97 wrote Justin Pinnow:

>Let me know what you come up with. I have heard that some use the extra
>successes to help shape the barrier, but that's already free with the spell
>description for simple stuff...which is really all you need. Besides, with
>6s as the target number to get a success, there's not going to be many
>force 10 physical barriers erected anytime soon. ;) I just hate to see
>those extra successes with a TN of 6 go to waste.

How about this: Each success after the first is the number of times
the barrier will rebuild itsself after been damaged.

--
Barbie


One lived hour is still living.
Message no. 8
From: Justin Pinnow <vanyel@*******.NET>
Subject: Re: Barrier Spells IMO (LONG)
Date: Fri, 8 Aug 1997 01:51:57 -0400
> From: J. Keith Henry <Ereskanti@***.COM>
> Date: Friday, August 08, 1997 12:41 AM

> In a message dated 97-08-07 23:31:32 EDT, vanyel@*******.NET (Justin
Pinnow)
> writes:

> > Hmm....guess what I did? I was reading from the barrier rules when I
typed
> > that, not the spell description. Thus, I unknowingly made a mistake.
> > However, upon thinking about it, there's no way in hell that a nearby
> > explosion will ever be stopped by a blast barrier. I mean, sure it's
nice
> > to take any protection you can get, but that's not all that comforting
> when
> > shrapnel begins to sear your flesh. ;) You can't have confidence
that
> > your barrier will keep you alive. You'll still take damage, and
possibly
> > die, even with a decent powered Blast Barrier by the standard rules.
That
> > just doesn't rank with the other barriers in how effective they are
> against
> > their protected type of attack. *shrug* Any other suggestions on
this?
> > :)

> I have a thought, actually two. First of all, Barrier Spells are
combinable
> with armor on the personal level, so I thought that you could put the two
> together for the fun ot it.

How do you mean? Once the blast gets through the barrier, I allow personal
armor to subtract from what's left of the force. Still, you're gonna get
hurt or killed if a grenade goes off near a blast barrier. It's just not
strong enough.

> Also, do you remember me mentioning "Skylight" a post or two ago? He's
the
> one in my games with the "Doughnut" spells. Well, the same guy came up
with
> "Motion Barrier". The theory is that "aggressive forces" can be
more
> directly acted upon than passive ones. Thus, his form of the spell,
which
> was either a +1 or +2 category higher, I vaguely remember D3 for some
reason
> (second edition here), had twice its effectiveness against "Active
Kinetic
> Force", such as slamming at high(er) speeds or "punching" through it.
> Basically, anything that had a "Speed" that exceded the Force's rating
was
> met with double resistance. Anything that met with half it's "Speed"
rating
> or below, was met with no resistance at all.

> Speed in this case is referred to a "power of attack" that equalled or
> exceded the force of the spell itself. It had more than a few things
happen
> to it. My favorite was the day the burning lava flowed through it, but
the
> drone with the necessary medicine didn't.

Hehehe. Cool. What I might do is find a way to tweak the blast barrier a
bit to make it slightly more formidable than as written. Then, I will
allow players to create an improved version of the spell, if they like
(that say has the x 2 barrier rating that I originally listed), or the
inertia barrier type thing you suggested above. BTW: I love spells like
Mana Donut. :)

> > Ah, well, I just kept it simple to the magic is magic and can protect
> > against magic approach. :) Of course, a blast barrier won't do squat
to
> > stop a Flame Bomb spell, but that's because it's not designed to. :)
I
> > can see why you argue your point on this, and wouldn't be against
allowing
> > DMs to be more effective against magical barriers, but I just prefer
to
> > keep it simple (is it too late for that?) ;)

> Way to late ;). And just to clarify things, I am one of the people who
> suggested that DM's have at least half their effective ratings for said
> purposes. I do have a question for you though. Your "Flame Bomb"
example
> above, why wouldn't a Blast Barrier have any effect? Or are you being
picky
> on the particular "elemental effect?"

Hmm. I was basing it on the fact that the elemental effect wasn't blast.
The eruption of flames isn't in itself an explosion. What the barrier
protects against is the high rate of kinetic energy expended in a small
area (an explosion). However, I would rule that the flames, shrapnel, etc.
carried by the explosion would also be protected against. But the blast
still has to be there for the blast barrier to recognize the flames or
whatever as an attack.

> > > But other than that, bravo, well done....
> > Thanks a ton for the words of praise. :)
>
> Not a problem.

Thanks again :)

> -K
Message no. 9
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: Barrier Spells IMO (LONG)
Date: Fri, 8 Aug 1997 12:57:58 +0100
Justin Pinnow said on 18:13/ 7 Aug 97...

> > Under SRII rules, DMs are not hindered by barrier spells, so that is
> > another house rule.
>
> Yes, but I think there are many folks who agree that the Barrier spell
> *should* block DMs. However, you are correct....it's a house rule.

But one that makes sense, at least to me.

> > I suggest taking a look at the barrier rules
> > interpretations Damion and I came up with.
>
> Plug Plug. ;) Let me know where to find them and I will. :)

They're on Paolo's site somewhere, but I don't know where exactly. Just
look around a bit and you should come across them.

> Correct. But this isn't a house rule, I don't believe. Please correct me
> if I am wrong. I need the help. :)

It's another of those gray areas, if you ask me. This interpretation is as
good as any, IMO.

> > Is the required power of the attack the only thing that makes it more
> > difficult to target a barrier? It seems so from these rules, anyway.
>
> Yes. I am using the whole "will it to be your target and it will be"
> theory. Normally, barrier spells just do what they do and that's that.
> However, either you allow characters to be able to attack barriers somehow,
> or you don't. I go for the first of the two options. However, it's hard
> game mechanics-wise to explain why someone can target a Barrier spell when
> normally, it would be difficult to justify taking a spell out with a
> bullet. ;) Thus, I just say it's a matter of will. But I don't require a
> willpower check. I just basically make it hard to do (however, the rules
> already make it hard to do, so it's not really a house rule). More like a
> justification. But it works. :)

I'm more in favor of treating a barrier spell like any other wall; that
is, if you fire at someone on the other side then it will degrade as well,
since the bullet has to pass through it whether you want to attacjk the
barrier itself or not.

> > This works different from attacks on barriers as SRII explains them, and
> > could lead to some confusion as to which barrier degrades in which manner.
>
> I treat each spell seperately. They have common rules and such, but how
> powerful they are depend on what they defend against. Could you make some
> suggestions as to how to better integrate these rules with the ones in the
> book?

Easiest way is for you to look at the barrier rules interpretations,
that'll save me from typing about two screens worth of explanations :)

> > So _that_'s how those IEs managed to stay alive for such a long time :)
>
> *Thwap* ;) I KNEW someone was gonna interpret that the wrong way. I just
> couldn't come up with a good alternative for the word "passing".

How about "A Mana Barrier protects against the passAGE of living beings"?

> Any other suggestions?

Not right now/anymore...

> See why these really needed some clarifications?

Yep :)

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Pleasure is to be insane.
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version 3.1:
GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+ PE
Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
Message no. 10
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@****.ORG>
Subject: Re: Barrier Spells IMO (LONG)
Date: Fri, 8 Aug 1997 07:20:45 -0600
Barbie wrote:
|
| At 07-Aug-97 wrote Justin Pinnow:
|
| >Let me know what you come up with. I have heard that some use the extra
| >successes to help shape the barrier, but that's already free with the spell
| >description for simple stuff...which is really all you need. Besides, with
| >6s as the target number to get a success, there's not going to be many
| >force 10 physical barriers erected anytime soon. ;) I just hate to see
| >those extra successes with a TN of 6 go to waste.
|
| How about this: Each success after the first is the number of times
| the barrier will rebuild itsself after been damaged.

Barbie, you rule! Give the mage the choice of casting a low force
barrier that will last a while, or he can cast a high force barrier
that will only go down before heavy firepower. I like it.

-David
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
--
"Creativity is allowing yourself to make mistakes. Art is knowing
which ones to keep."
Message no. 11
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@****.ORG>
Subject: Re: Barrier Spells IMO (LONG)
Date: Fri, 8 Aug 1997 07:27:49 -0600
Justin Pinnow wrote:
|
[snip: Keith's opinion on extra successes for barriers]
|
| Let me know what you come up with. I have heard that some use the extra
| successes to help shape the barrier, but that's already free with the spell
| description for simple stuff...which is really all you need. Besides, with
| 6s as the target number to get a success, there's not going to be many
| force 10 physical barriers erected anytime soon. ;) I just hate to see
| those extra successes with a TN of 6 go to waste.

If you don't like Barbie's idea, how about converting the extra
successes to extra dice for the barrier to use for any resistance
tests. For example, if you cast a Force 4 Barrier, and get 3
successes, then the Barrier gets to role 7 dice for resistance
tests. But it's rating is still a 4.

-David
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
--
"Creativity is allowing yourself to make mistakes. Art is knowing
which ones to keep."
Message no. 12
From: "J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Barrier Spells IMO (LONG)
Date: Fri, 8 Aug 1997 19:23:36 -0400
In a message dated 97-08-08 09:27:30 EDT, dbuehrer@****.ORG writes:

>
> If you don't like Barbie's idea, how about converting the extra
> successes to extra dice for the barrier to use for any resistance
> tests. For example, if you cast a Force 4 Barrier, and get 3
> successes, then the Barrier gets to role 7 dice for resistance
> tests. But it's rating is still a 4.
>
Actually, I also liked this option. Also remember that a magician who is
actively sustaining a barrier can give his/her Magic Pool dice towards the
resistance tests the Barrier itself is making against attacks -directed- at
it.
-K
Message no. 13
From: Justin Pinnow <vanyel@*******.NET>
Subject: Re: Barrier Spells IMO (LONG)
Date: Fri, 8 Aug 1997 20:55:43 -0400
> From: J. Keith Henry <Ereskanti@***.COM>
> Date: Friday, August 08, 1997 7:23 PM
>
> In a message dated 97-08-08 09:27:30 EDT, dbuehrer@****.ORG writes:

> > If you don't like Barbie's idea, how about converting the extra
> > successes to extra dice for the barrier to use for any resistance
> > tests. For example, if you cast a Force 4 Barrier, and get 3
> > successes, then the Barrier gets to role 7 dice for resistance
> > tests. But it's rating is still a 4.

> Actually, I also liked this option. Also remember that a magician who is
> actively sustaining a barrier can give his/her Magic Pool dice towards
the
> resistance tests the Barrier itself is making against attacks -directed-
at
> it.

I'm confused now. I was under the impression you never needed to roll
resistence tests for magical barriers...you just subtracted from their
power level based upon the force of the attack, etc.

> -K
Message no. 14
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@****.ORG>
Subject: Re: Barrier Spells IMO (LONG)
Date: Sat, 9 Aug 1997 08:56:40 -0600
Justin Pinnow wrote:
|
| > > If you don't like Barbie's idea, how about converting the extra
| > > successes to extra dice for the barrier to use for any resistance
| > > tests. For example, if you cast a Force 4 Barrier, and get 3
| > > successes, then the Barrier gets to role 7 dice for resistance
| > > tests. But it's rating is still a 4.
|
| > Actually, I also liked this option. Also remember that a magician who is
| > actively sustaining a barrier can give his/her Magic Pool dice towards
| the
| > resistance tests the Barrier itself is making against attacks -directed-
| at
| > it.
|
| I'm confused now. I was under the impression you never needed to roll
| resistence tests for magical barriers...you just subtracted from their
| power level based upon the force of the attack, etc.

There are circumstances under which a barrier may be attacked
directly (I think an astral mage trying to pass through is one, I
can't remember the others). Under a normal attack (bullets vs
physical barrier) the extra dice wouldn't count.

-David
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
--
"Creativity is allowing yourself to make mistakes. Art is knowing
which ones to keep."
Message no. 15
From: Justin Pinnow <vanyel@*******.NET>
Subject: Re: Barrier Spells IMO (LONG)
Date: Sat, 9 Aug 1997 11:33:16 -0400
> From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@****.ORG>
> Date: Saturday, August 09, 1997 10:56 AM

> Justin Pinnow wrote:

> | > > If you don't like Barbie's idea, how about converting the extra
> | > > successes to extra dice for the barrier to use for any resistance
> | > > tests. For example, if you cast a Force 4 Barrier, and get 3
> | > > successes, then the Barrier gets to role 7 dice for resistance
> | > > tests. But it's rating is still a 4.

> | > Actually, I also liked this option. Also remember that a magician
who is
> | > actively sustaining a barrier can give his/her Magic Pool dice
towards
> | the
> | > resistance tests the Barrier itself is making against attacks
-directed-
> | at
> | > it.

> | I'm confused now. I was under the impression you never needed to roll
> | resistence tests for magical barriers...you just subtracted from their
> | power level based upon the force of the attack, etc.

> There are circumstances under which a barrier may be attacked
> directly (I think an astral mage trying to pass through is one, I
> can't remember the others). Under a normal attack (bullets vs
> physical barrier) the extra dice wouldn't count.

Ah, thanks for clarifying. On the astral, they act as wards and attack
intruders per those rules. That's right. Now, could you tell me where you
got that rule you mentioned above about being able to use magic pool dice
to aid the spell's resistance tests?

> -David
> http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
> --
> "Creativity is allowing yourself to make mistakes. Art is knowing
> which ones to keep."
Message no. 16
From: "J. Keith Henry" <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Barrier Spells IMO (LONG)
Date: Sat, 9 Aug 1997 12:57:15 -0400
In a message dated 97-08-09 05:28:02 EDT, vanyel@*******.NET (Justin Pinnow)
writes:

> > Actually, I also liked this option. Also remember that a magician who is
> > actively sustaining a barrier can give his/her Magic Pool dice towards
> the
> > resistance tests the Barrier itself is making against attacks -directed-
> at
> > it.
>
> I'm confused now. I was under the impression you never needed to roll
> resistence tests for magical barriers...you just subtracted from their
> power level based upon the force of the attack, etc.
>
>
If a Barrier Spell is -directly- attacked by a magician (or being capable of
such) in Astral Combat, the sustaining magician can use his/her/its magic
pool as extra dice towards the spells defense. Actually, this rule is for
all spells that are being actively sustained.
-K
Message no. 17
From: Barbie <barbie@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: Barrier Spells IMO (LONG)
Date: Mon, 11 Aug 1997 01:02:25 -0500
At 08-Aug-97 wrote David Buehrer:


>Barbie, you rule!

Ohh, thanks I didn`t know THAT.

--
Barbie


One lived hour is still living.
Message no. 18
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Barrier Spells IMO (LONG)
Date: Mon, 11 Aug 1997 13:55:29 +0100
|
|At 08-Aug-97 wrote David Buehrer:
|
|
|>Barbie, you rule!
|
|Ohh, thanks I didn`t know THAT.

David... You really didn't want to do that.
She'll start bossing us about now!

:)
--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Message no. 19
From: Barbie <barbie@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: Barrier Spells IMO (Long)
Date: Thu, 14 Aug 1997 12:10:21 -0500
Spike wrote:

>David... You really didn't want to do that.
>She'll start bossing us about now!

>:)

Why should I do such thing,
only because David cry out that he liked my idea
in a spontanuse manner?
I belive this would not be a so good.
--
Barbie


One lived hour is still living.
Message no. 20
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@****.ORG>
Subject: Re: Barrier Spells IMO (Long)
Date: Thu, 14 Aug 1997 07:12:30 -0600
Barbie wrote:
|
| Spike wrote:
|
| >David... You really didn't want to do that.
| >She'll start bossing us about now!
|
| >:)
|
| Why should I do such thing,
| only because David cry out that he liked my idea
| in a spontanuse manner?
| I belive this would not be a so good.

How about if you just boss Spike around? If nothing else it will
prepare him for the unit he's trying to join ;)

BTW Spike, good luck.

-David
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
--
"Creativity is allowing yourself to make mistakes. Art is knowing
which ones to keep."
Message no. 21
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Barrier Spells IMO (Long)
Date: Thu, 14 Aug 1997 14:16:15 +0100
|BTW Spike, good luck.

Thanks
--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Message no. 22
From: Barbie <barbie@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: Barrier Spells IMO (Long)
Date: Thu, 14 Aug 1997 23:05:37 -0500
At 14-Aug-97 wrote David Buehrer:


>How about if you just boss Spike around? If nothing else it will
>prepare him for the unit he's trying to join ;)

lets see.
<preparing the dreadfull commando voice I don`t have>

SPIKE!! GET UP, GO TO THE KITCHEN, FILL A GLASS WITH WATER
AND SPILL IT ONTO YOUR FACE. :):):)

>BTW Spike, good luck.

With his army thing or with me bossing him around?
--
Barbie


One lived hour is still living.
Message no. 23
From: Justin Pinnow <vanyel@*******.NET>
Subject: Re: Barrier Spells IMO (Long)
Date: Thu, 14 Aug 1997 17:46:50 -0400
> From: Barbie <barbie@**********.COM>
> To: SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET
> Subject: Re: Barrier Spells IMO (Long)
> Date: Friday, August 15, 1997 12:05 AM

> At 14-Aug-97 wrote David Buehrer:

> >How about if you just boss Spike around? If nothing else it will
> >prepare him for the unit he's trying to join ;)

> lets see.
> <preparing the dreadfull commando voice I don`t have>

> SPIKE!! GET UP, GO TO THE KITCHEN, FILL A GLASS WITH WATER
> AND SPILL IT ONTO YOUR FACE. :):):)

<Snip>

Um, this thread is no longer about Barrier Spells and hasn't been in quite
awhile. Can we either drop it or change it to an off-topic fluff thread?

Justin
Message no. 24
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Barrier Spells IMO (Long)
Date: Fri, 15 Aug 1997 11:54:13 +0100
|SPIKE!! GET UP, GO TO THE KITCHEN, FILL A GLASS WITH WATER
|AND SPILL IT ONTO YOUR FACE. :):):)

Yes miss... Anything you say miss...

<"NEAR" PAT PAT Pat Pat pat pat ... ... "far">
<Shshshshshhsshshshshhhh.......>
<Splooosh>
<"far" ... ... pat pat Pat Pat PAT PAT "NEAR!">

:)

Thank you miss... It was hot enopugh here today for that to actually make
sense.....
--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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Disclaimer

These messages were posted a long time ago on a mailing list far, far away. The copyright to their contents probably lies with the original authors of the individual messages, but since they were published in an electronic forum that anyone could subscribe to, and the logs were available to subscribers and most likely non-subscribers as well, it's felt that re-publishing them here is a kind of public service.

Thwap!