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Message no. 1
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Pepe Barbe)
Subject: Becoming a Spirit
Date: Fri Mar 2 17:00:02 2001
Hello,

One of my PCs died, and I was thinking about turning him into an NPC Free
Spirit/Ghost/Specter/Astral Entity but I wasn't sure how to set the force
for the spirit; I was thinking maybe the mean of the astral attributes of
the PC.

What do you think would be the kind of spirit the PC should turn into?

Pepe
Message no. 2
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Nexx)
Subject: Becoming a Spirit
Date: Fri Mar 2 18:15:01 2001
----- Original Message -----
From: "Pepe Barbe"


> One of my PCs died, and I was thinking about turning him into an NPC Free
> Spirit/Ghost/Specter/Astral Entity but I wasn't sure how to set the force
> for the spirit; I was thinking maybe the mean of the astral attributes of
> the PC.
>
> What do you think would be the kind of spirit the PC should turn into?

Well, depends on what kind of PC he was. I could see a mage who was heavily
into one kind of spell turning into a certain elemental, or a Shaman turning
into a nature spirit related to his totem. A gutterpunk would probably
become something like a City spirit.
Message no. 3
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Simon and Fiona)
Subject: Becoming a Spirit
Date: Sat Mar 3 00:35:00 2001
-----Original Message-----
From: Pepe Barbe <a19960615@****.edu.pe>
To: shadowrn@*********.com <shadowrn@*********.com>
Date: Saturday, March 03, 2001 9:06 AM
Subject: Becoming a Spirit


>Hello,
>
>One of my PCs died, and I was thinking about turning him into an NPC Free
>Spirit/Ghost/Specter/Astral Entity but I wasn't sure how to set the force
>for the spirit; I was thinking maybe the mean of the astral attributes of
>the PC.
>
>What do you think would be the kind of spirit the PC should turn into?
>
For me, I'd start their force very low, 2 or 3 at the most. It'd be tough
going at first but it doesn't cost that much to raise the force later on.
Otherwise you'll have your players shooting themselves in the head for a
chance to become spirits. As for the kind of spirit, the most obvious would
be a spirit of Man. If the character was a shaman, maybe they could become
the type of spirit that their totem had modifiers for, for example a Dog
shaman might become a hearth or field spirit (dog shaped, of course).
Probably the best type would be an Ancestor spirit, though I don't have the
appropriate books so I can't check on how usable one would be as a
character.
I don't think a person should become an elemental, they're a bit too
different from humans.
Message no. 4
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Phil Smith)
Subject: Becoming a Spirit
Date: Sat Mar 3 04:10:01 2001
>What do you think would be the kind of spirit the PC should turn into?

A ghost. Specifically a specter, although ghosts don't just pick up where
they left off; some of them remain to resolve something that happened in
their lives and others just want to be as destructive as possible.
Basically, ghosts extsist almost entirely for negative reasons.

Phil

You have a class of young strong men and women, and they want to give their
lives to something.

We have to show these men and women freedom by enslaving them, and show
their courage by frightening them.

"Napolean bragged that he could train men to sacrifice their lives for a
scrap of ribbon."

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Message no. 5
From: shadowrn@*********.com (shadowrn@*********.com)
Subject: Becoming a Spirit
Date: Sat Mar 3 13:05:00 2001
In a message dated 3/3/01 12:08:20 PM, shadowrn-request@*********.com writes:
>One of my PCs died, and I was thinking about turning him into an NPC Free
>Spirit/Ghost/Specter/Astral Entity but I wasn't sure how to set the force
>for the spirit; I was thinking maybe the mean of the astral attributes of
>the PC.

If the character is an NPC then the simple answer is: whatever Force or
abilities you want. You're the GM, after all.

If you're looking for more of a system for determining the starting Force of
a ghost, consider something like this:

The dying character makes an Essence Test with a TN based on the
circumstances of his death and how likely the GM thinks he is to linger on
afterward. I'd start the TN out at least 12 and modify it downward for
circumstances, with maybe a -1 or -2 if the character is Awakened. No
successes means the character is just dead. Each success gives the new ghost
one point of Force. So the stronger the original character's Essence and his
reasons for becoming a ghost (i.e., the lower the TN) the more powerful the
resulting ghost is. Then you can allow the ghost to increase its Force using
Karma like a free spirit.

As for spirit types, ghosts are the spirits or psychic echoes of once-living
people, elementals, nature spirits, etc. come from "somewhere else" (i.e.,
the metaplanes), so dead people don't generally become elementals, etc. Free
spirits are more of a class than a type of spirit: you have free elementals,
free nature spirits, etc. Specters are basically free ghosts for all intents
and purposes, and can be treated as such (note that specters get access to
free spirit powers).

Have fun,

Steve Kenson

Talon Studio
http://members.aol.com/talonmail
Message no. 6
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Michael S. Bobroff)
Subject: Becoming a Spirit
Date: Sun Mar 4 05:05:01 2001
----- Original Message -----
From: <TalonMail@***.com>
To: <shadowrn@*********.com>
Sent: Saturday, March 03, 2001 1:03 PM
Subject: Re: Becoming a Spirit


> In a message dated 3/3/01 12:08:20 PM,
shadowrn-request@*********.com writes:
> >One of my PCs died, and I was thinking about
turning him into an NPC Free
> >Spirit/Ghost/Specter/Astral Entity but I wasn't
sure how to set the force
> >for the spirit; I was thinking maybe the mean
of the astral attributes of
> >the PC.
>
> If the character is an NPC then the simple
answer is: whatever Force or
> abilities you want. You're the GM, after all.
>
> If you're looking for more of a system for
determining the starting Force of
> a ghost, consider something like this:
>
> The dying character makes an Essence Test with a
TN based on the
> circumstances of his death and how likely the GM
thinks he is to linger on
> afterward. I'd start the TN out at least 12 and
modify it downward for
> circumstances, with maybe a -1 or -2 if the
character is Awakened. No
> successes means the character is just dead. Each
success gives the new ghost
> one point of Force. So the stronger the original
character's Essence and his
> reasons for becoming a ghost (i.e., the lower
the TN) the more powerful the
> resulting ghost is. Then you can allow the ghost
to increase its Force using
> Karma like a free spirit.

Personally, I'd have the character roll their
Essence plus Willpower ... your character is
'wanting' to become a ghost ... and it's all in
the desire to become such ...

Hmm ... doesn't this sound like Cybermancy without
there being a body on the end ... just a thought
...

-Mike
Message no. 7
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Gurth)
Subject: Becoming a Spirit
Date: Sun Mar 4 07:20:01 2001
According to Michael S. Bobroff, on Sun, 04 Mar 2001 the word on the
street was...

> Personally, I'd have the character roll their
> Essence plus Willpower ... your character is
> 'wanting' to become a ghost ... and it's all in
> the desire to become such ...

OTOH there would be plenty of people who _don't_ want to become ghosts when
they die, for any number of reasons. In fact, I'd say the vast majority of
people don't want to come "back" as a ghost. They'd get their Essence
minus their Willpower, then?

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Kogels houden van mensen.
-> NAGEE Editor * ShadowRN GridSec * Triangle Virtuoso <-
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Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 8
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Michael S. Bobroff)
Subject: Becoming a Spirit
Date: Sun Mar 4 14:20:01 2001
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gurth" <Gurth@******.nl>


> According to Michael S. Bobroff, on Sun, 04 Mar
2001 the word on the
> street was...
>
> > Personally, I'd have the character roll their
> > Essence plus Willpower ... your character is
> > 'wanting' to become a ghost ... and it's all
in
> > the desire to become such ...
>
> OTOH there would be plenty of people who _don't_
want to become ghosts when
> they die, for any number of reasons. In fact,
I'd say the vast majority of
> people don't want to come "back" as a ghost.
They'd get their Essence
> minus their Willpower, then?

No, personally, to be EGM, I'd still have them add
their Willpower, as subconsciously there is a part
of them that does want to come back for some
reason or another ...

And as I said about a likeness to cybermancy for
this, the character needs to have some reason or
another to become a ghost ... willing or not ...

I liked an explanation someone once gave about
evil ghosts to me ... evil ghosts are that way as
they can -"never"- complete the task that made
them into ghosts in the first place ...

Which is another thing about a character who is a
ghost ... the reason has to be an accomplishable
task too ... it may take time ... but it is
something that can be done never-the-less.

-Mike
Message no. 9
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Alfredo B Alves)
Subject: Becoming a Spirit
Date: Sun Mar 4 14:25:00 2001
On Sun, 4 Mar 2001 13:17:23 +0100 Gurth <Gurth@******.nl> writes:
<SNIP>
> OTOH there would be plenty of people who _don't_ want to become
> ghosts when
> they die, for any number of reasons. In fact, I'd say the vast
> majority of
> people don't want to come "back" as a ghost. They'd get their
> Essence
> minus their Willpower, then?

Well, only the departing spirit's desire at the moment of death is a
concern. Additionally, I would say that the character must have a desire
to remain in this world in order to even have a chance of becoming a
ghost/specter. It may not be something they are consciously aware of, but
it must be present. This should be more than just a desire to live; it
should be a desire to live for a reason. (protect 'x', get revenge for
'y', etc ...) As such, I think Mike's suggestion of Essence+Willpower
dice would always apply. (Although, I'm tempted to make the Willpower
dice work like dice from a dice pool. IIRC, that would mean that you
would need at least one success on Essence test and that you can't have
more than [Essence] successes ... but I'm not sure about the last part.)

--
D. Ghost
Profanity is the one language all programmers know best
- Troutman's 6th programming postulate.
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Message no. 10
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Alfredo B Alves)
Subject: Becoming a Spirit
Date: Sun Mar 4 14:40:00 2001
On Sun, 4 Mar 2001 14:34:31 -0500 "Michael S. Bobroff"
<airwisp@******************.com> writes:
<SNIP>
> I liked an explanation someone once gave about
> evil ghosts to me ... evil ghosts are that way as
> they can -"never"- complete the task that made
> them into ghosts in the first place ...
>
> Which is another thing about a character who is a
> ghost ... the reason has to be an accomplishable
> task too ... it may take time ... but it is
> something that can be done never-the-less.

...or at least the character has to reasonably believe it can be
accomplished. Regardless, when the ghost completes the task or is
convinced that the task has been accomplished/is unaccomplished, the
ghost should depart to the hereafter (for lack of a better phrase). In
order to convince a ghost it has no reason for being, I would treat it as
an opposed ghost's Intelligence versus ghost's Willpower test and have
the convincing character roll an appropriate skill as complementary to
the ghost's Intelligence roll. A character who wanted to convince the
ghost to remain would roll an appropriate skill adding successes to the
ghost's Willpower roll. If the ghost's Intelligence get's more successes
it departs otherwise, it stays.

Additionally, when a ghost has completed it's reason for being, it should
have a chance to generalize that purpose and continue existing. I would
again treat this as an opposed Intelligence versus Willpower test. If the
ghost's Intelligence get's more successes it departs otherwise, it stays.

Just a thought. :)

--
D. Ghost
Profanity is the one language all programmers know best
- Troutman's 6th programming postulate.
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