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Message no. 1
From: sean schwartz badluck12@*****.msn.com
Subject: Beginning players
Date: Sun, 2 Jul 2000 17:31:01 -0400
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I will be shortly running a Shadowrun game and I have two to three beginning players in
my group. I'm trying to find new ways to utilize in my game for getting these type of
players a solid understanding of the game mechanics in a short period of time. If any of
you have any suggestions, then please respond and let me know.

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<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>I&nbsp; will be shortly running a
Shadowrun game
and I have two to three beginning players in my group.&nbsp; I'm trying to find
new ways to utilize in my game for getting these type of players a solid
understanding of the game mechanics in a short period of time.&nbsp; If any of
you have any suggestions, then please respond and let me
know.</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

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Message no. 2
From: Spike spike1@****.freenet.co.uk
Subject: Beginning players
Date: Sun, 2 Jul 2000 22:22:06 +0100 (BST)
And verily, didst sean schwartz babble thusly...
[Charset iso-8859-1 unsupported, filtering to ASCII...]

Turn off the html and turn on your word wrap old chap...

--
______________________________________________________________________________
| spike1@*******.co.uk | "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell BSc(hons)| |
| in | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
| Computer Science | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Message no. 3
From: Phil Smith phil_urbanhell@*******.com
Subject: Beginning players
Date: Sun, 02 Jul 2000 21:38:23 GMT
>From: "sean schwartz" <badluck12@*****.msn.com>
>I will be shortly running a Shadowrun game and I have two to three
>beginning players in my group. I'm trying to find new ways to utilize in
>my game for getting these type of players a solid understanding of the game
>mechanics in a short period of time. If any of you have any suggestions,
>then please respond and let me know.

Try not sending them on a run in the first game, have them visit their
contacts, get into a bar fight with some slightlt inferior opponents, try to
aquire some gear and just get used to the world. Apparantly it works quite
well.

Phil

That's it; get out of my castle!
________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com
Message no. 4
From: SyphonAC@***.com SyphonAC@***.com
Subject: Beginning players
Date: Sun, 2 Jul 2000 21:43:02 EDT
I used to play with a GM who had an interesting idea for new players...he
would not simply let them have contacts at the beginning of the game, or gear
either. Rather, they had to acquire what they wanted (I would say "buy", but
apparently some people like starting off a game with a record), and any
contacts they wanted had to be gotten strictly through roleplaying. He would
work both into the flow of the game, and without even realizing it, the
bartender or screamsheet reporter they had nonchalantly met would be a
contact, and the player tended to treat his gear better when he remembered
the length he had to go to get it. This guy was a good GM, but it's not that
hard to do, and it definitly seems more realistic. Also, players (at least
the good ones who cared a bit) would treat their contacts as real people,
rather than use them for info and forget about them.

Syphon
Message no. 5
From: Gurth gurth@******.nl
Subject: Beginning players
Date: Mon, 3 Jul 2000 11:54:47 +0200
According to sean schwartz, at 17:31 on 2 Jul 00, the word on the street
was...

> I will be shortly running a Shadowrun game and I have two to three
> beginning players in my group. I'm trying to find new ways to utilize
> in my game for getting these type of players a solid understanding of
> the game mechanics in a short period of time. If any of you have any
> suggestions, then please respond and let me know.

The way I usually do this, if I can, is to run a one-off session with
these players and a few regulars, in which they go through a simple
shadowrun (Mr. Johnson hires them to steal something, usually) so they can
experience what goes on in a shadowrun and be exposed to the rules. Be
sure to throw in something of everything -- social interaction (at least
with Mr. Johnson, hopefully also with others), sneaking around, magic use,
getting into a firefight with on-site security, etc. -- and make sure that
the regular players will try to let the new players make decisions and
don't just follow the regulars' lead.

Another good way of letting new players at least get a feel for the game
mechanics are to let them make their characters (under the GM's guidance),
as this will require them to get a basic understanding of the basic rules
in order to make decisions like what skill to take, which gear, cyberware,
spells, and so on to get, and so on.

It may not be new or novel, but it works for me...

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Yes, I am broadcasting myself!
-> NAGEE Editor * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://plastic.dumpshock.com <-

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Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 6
From: Adam J adamj@*********.html.com
Subject: Beginning players
Date: Sun, 02 Jul 2000 23:42:15 -0600
At 00:30 7/3/00 +0000, naughty@********.com.au wrote:

>As Phil has said, a meeting in a bar with contacts to discuss
>"biz" is always good.

Better than a bar - some sort of upscale restaurant or club, where it will
become clear that people shouldn't start something they can't finish
politely in public. ;)

Adam
--
< adamj@*********.com | ICQ# 2350330 | TSS Productions >
< The Shadowrun Supplemental: http://tss.dumpshock.com >
< ShadowFAQ: http://shadowfaq.dumpshock.com >
< ShadowRN Assistant Fearless Leader: http://lists.dumpshock.com >
Message no. 7
From: James Mick sinabian@********.net
Subject: Beginning players
Date: Mon, 3 Jul 2000 12:53:21 -0400
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I will be shortly running a Shadowrun game and I have two to three beginning players
in my group. I'm trying to find new ways to utilize in my game for getting these type of
players a solid understanding of the game mechanics in a short period of time. If any of
you have any suggestions, then please respond and let me know.


>This damned line is following me and I can't get rid of it, but here's where the
copy ends and my stuff starts...::grumbles and hooks a kilo of CXII to his computer::

When I was first introduced to the game, the GM who got me into it had me read the
Plus Ca Change short story, gave me some background on the world itself, then had me
choose a character class. (race, street sam? rigger?...) Then he went ahead and drew up
the first character and let me go through and make any changes within reason. This is what
I do, short of drawing up the character because I'm usually busy getting the run together.
(I have one of the other players help with that...)

May not be the best, but it works. I also recommend them reading any of the fiction
that's available out there. (If nothing else, I've very much enjoyed both the novels I've
read so far...)

This, and patience above all else. Keep in mind, they're new. They'll have a lot of
questions and make a LOT of mistakes. It's called learning. ::laughs:: And, well, most
people learn the HARD way...

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style="BORDER-LEFT: #000000 solid 2px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-LEFT:
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<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>I&nbsp; will be shortly running
a Shadowrun
game and I have two to three beginning players in my group.&nbsp; I'm trying
to find new ways to utilize in my game for getting these type of players a
solid understanding of the game mechanics in a short period of time.&nbsp;
If any of you have any suggestions, then please respond and let me
know.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#000000 size=2>&gt;This damned line is
following me and I
can't get rid of it, but here's where the copy ends and my stuff
starts...::grumbles and hooks a kilo of CXII to his
computer::</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#000000
size=2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#000000 size=2>When I was first introduced to
the game, the
GM who got me into it had me read the Plus Ca Change short story, gave me
some background on the world itself, then had me choose a character class.
(race, street sam? rigger?...) Then he went ahead and drew up the first
character and let me go through and make any changes within reason. This is
what I do, short of drawing up the character because I'm usually busy
getting the run together. (I have one of the other players help with
that...)</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#000000
size=2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#000000 size=2>May not be the best, but it
works. I also
recommend them reading any of the fiction that's available out there. (If
nothing else, I've very much enjoyed both the novels I've read so
far...)</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#000000
size=2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#000000 size=2>This, and patience above all
else. Keep in
mind, they're new. They'll have a lot of questions and make a LOT of
mistakes. It's called learning. ::laughs:: And, well, most people learn the
HARD way...</FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

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Message no. 8
From: James Mick sinabian@********.net
Subject: Beginning players
Date: Mon, 3 Jul 2000 12:54:33 -0400
>And verily, didst sean schwartz babble thusly...
>[Charset iso-8859-1 unsupported, filtering to ASCII...]
>
>Turn off the html and turn on your word wrap old chap...
>

So THAT's why I couldn't get rid of that damned annoying line!!! D'oh! Sorry
about my SNAFU in those regards. My mail system's set up to respond in the
style of the original mail...
Message no. 9
From: James Mick sinabian@********.net
Subject: Beginning players
Date: Mon, 3 Jul 2000 12:55:30 -0400
>Try not sending them on a run in the first game, have them visit their
>contacts, get into a bar fight with some slightlt inferior opponents, try
to
>aquire some gear and just get used to the world. Apparantly it works quite
>well.
>
>Phil
>
>That's it; get out of my castle!



That sounds like a helluvan idea too... I may try that myself next time
around.
Message no. 10
From: James Mick sinabian@********.net
Subject: Beginning players
Date: Mon, 3 Jul 2000 12:59:52 -0400
>>Try not sending them on a run in the first game, have them
>>visit their contacts, get into a bar fight with some slightly
>>inferior opponents, try to aquire some gear and just get used
>>to the world. Apparantly it works quite well.



Ooh... ::gets that evil gleam in his eyes:: Okay, here's an idea that's got
great fun potential. Just a slight spin on the bar fight thing. Have them
get into a bar fight...with EACH OTHER!!! Everyone will have a ton of fun
and it will really bring out how the characters will interact as well as the
characters' personalities and styles as well... (one time one of the
characters in my run got a face full of peanuts from the troll phys ad who
was trying to get her attention...classic!)
Message no. 11
From: Adam J adamj@*********.html.com
Subject: Beginning players
Date: Mon, 03 Jul 2000 21:22:56 -0600
At 00:01 7/4/00 +0000, naughty@********.com.au wrote:

>>Better than a bar - some sort of upscale restaurant or club,
>>where it will become clear that people shouldn't start
>>something they can't finish politely in public. ;)
>
>Problem with that is that most "starting" level shadowrunners
>can't afford that, and their Johnson would be springing for the
>tab <g>. And you're assuming that some of them would be allowed
>in class establishments.

"Oh, you won't be able to make it? Sorry for wasting your time then - no,
don't call me, I'll call you."

Runners need to make things happen or they'll stay right where they are for
the rest of their lives.

>Besides, no matter where it takes place, a good GM should always
>play for "consequences" if the players think they can get away
>with murder (figuratively speaking).

Of course. But if the game starts off "loose", it's harder to tighten it up
than it is to start perhaps a bit too tight and loosen up as the players
get the feel for it.

Adam
--
< adamj@*********.com | ICQ# 2350330 | TSS Productions >
< The Shadowrun Supplemental: http://tss.dumpshock.com >
< ShadowFAQ: http://shadowfaq.dumpshock.com >
< ShadowRN Assistant Fearless Leader: http://lists.dumpshock.com >
Message no. 12
From: Patrick Goodman remo@***.net
Subject: Beginning players
Date: Mon, 3 Jul 2000 23:07:11 -0500
From: naughty@********.com.au
Sent: Friday, July 10, 2893 5:44 PM

> >Better than a bar - some sort of upscale restaurant or club,
> >where it will become clear that people shouldn't start
> >something they can't finish politely in public. ;)
>
> Problem with that is that most "starting" level shadowrunners
> can't afford that, and their Johnson would be springing for the
> tab <g>.

And this is unusual...how, exactly? It's fairly customary (though not
universally so) for the host to pick up the tab at a business meeting today.
I see no reason why this would change in the future. Mr. Johnson buying
dinner is going to be a minute blip on the expense report.

Besides, he can always offer the runners slightly less than he was supposed
to, in order to cover the dinner. (It's not a shadowrun unless your Johnson
screws you *somehow*.)

The vast majority of the business dealings in my currently dormant Amarillo
campaign were held at the Crystal Dragon, an *extremely* upscale restaurant
on the 44th floor of an office building downtown. Their Johnson always paid
for dinner, but two of the characters gave in and bought their own tuxes to
avoid rental fees.... (No, the restaurant didn't require tuxes as a general
rule, but it made an exception for that lot.)

--
Patrick E. Goodman
remo@***.net
"I'm going to tell you something cool." -- Gene Wolfe
http://communities.msn.com/ShadowrunDataHaven/
Message no. 13
From: Gurth gurth@******.nl
Subject: Beginning players
Date: Tue, 4 Jul 2000 11:27:10 +0200
According to Patrick Goodman, at 23:07 on 3 Jul 00, the word on the street
was...

> > Problem with that is that most "starting" level shadowrunners
> > can't afford that, and their Johnson would be springing for the
> > tab <g>.
>
> And this is unusual...how, exactly? It's fairly customary (though not
> universally so) for the host to pick up the tab at a business meeting today.
> I see no reason why this would change in the future. Mr. Johnson buying
> dinner is going to be a minute blip on the expense report.

Not to mention it'd be a bit strange if someone who is going to pay you a
lot of money to do a job, would expect you to pay the bill...

> Besides, he can always offer the runners slightly less than he was supposed
> to, in order to cover the dinner. (It's not a shadowrun unless your Johnson
> screws you *somehow*.)

Mr. Johnson: "Okay, so that's settled. You'll do the job, and I'll pay you
3,863 nuyen, half up front." :)

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Yes, I am broadcasting myself!
-> NAGEE Editor * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://plastic.dumpshock.com <-

GC3.1: GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ UL P L+ E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+
PE Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 14
From: Patrick Goodman remo@***.net
Subject: Beginning players
Date: Tue, 4 Jul 2000 09:23:27 -0500
From: Gurth
Sent: Tuesday, July 04, 2000 4:27 AM

> > Besides, he can always offer the runners slightly less than he
> > was supposed to, in order to cover the dinner. (It's not a
> > shadowrun unless your Johnson screws you *somehow*.)
>
> Mr. Johnson: "Okay, so that's settled. You'll do the job, and
> I'll pay you 3,863 nuyen, half up front." :)

He doesn't have to tell them, and if it's one of my Johnson's, he just
rounds it off in the first place. Silly man.... <gd&rlh>

--
Patrick E. Goodman
remo@***.net
"I'm going to tell you something cool." -- Gene Wolfe
http://communities.msn.com/ShadowrunDataHaven/
Message no. 15
From: Gurth gurth@******.nl
Subject: Beginning players
Date: Tue, 4 Jul 2000 19:46:32 +0200
According to Patrick Goodman, at 9:23 on 4 Jul 00, the word on the street
was...

> > Mr. Johnson: "Okay, so that's settled. You'll do the job, and
> > I'll pay you 3,863 nuyen, half up front." :)
>
> He doesn't have to tell them, and if it's one of my Johnson's, he just
> rounds it off in the first place. Silly man.... <gd&rlh>

I may actually have to pull this on my players for their next run... Have
Mr. J go something like "I'll pay you *starts mumbling* 4000 minus *looks
at tab* 137, makes a total of *thinks for a second, stops mumbling* 3863
nuyen." *grin*

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Yes, I am broadcasting myself!
-> NAGEE Editor * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://plastic.dumpshock.com <-

GC3.1: GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ UL P L+ E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+
PE Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 16
From: Patrick Goodman remo@***.net
Subject: Beginning players
Date: Tue, 4 Jul 2000 13:24:47 -0500
From: Gurth
Sent: Tuesday, July 04, 2000 12:47 PM

> I may actually have to pull this on my players for their next run...
> Have Mr. J go something like "I'll pay you *starts mumbling* 4000
> minus *looks at tab* 137, makes a total of *thinks for a second,
> stops mumbling* 3863 nuyen." *grin*

Yeah, but you're more vicious than I am....

--
Patrick E. Goodman
remo@***.net
"I'm going to tell you something cool." -- Gene Wolfe
http://communities.msn.com/ShadowrunDataHaven/

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