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Message no. 1
From: Paul Jonathan Adam <Paul@********.DEMON.CO.UK>
Subject: Re: Belt Feed (was: Realistic Autofire Rates)
Date: Thu, 10 Aug 1995 17:07:16 GMT
> I feel that unlike the other modes of fire such as SA or BF, FA
> is rather uncontrolled. I HAVE never had the oppurtunity to shoot a
> weapon capable of autofire (such things are illegal in Canada) but from
> what I'm told, you can control how much ammo one with the proper amount
> of training - however, you still consume a lot of rounds in FA and accuracy
> is still a problem due to the amount of rounds being shot. This could be
> a game balance rule for my campaign for I tend to have too many PCs
> running around with belted rounds.

Ho ho ho. Memories of carrying a GPMG with a dangling length of linked
ammo snagging on *everything* in sight...

You can rig a pouch on the side to hold the belt. Until it runs out, and
reloading a belt is rather slower than changing clips (lift top cover,
position belt, close top cover, rack and return cocking handle: two
hands and concentration required). A sensibly-sized pouch holds about
fifty rounds.

Then find your spare belt. Fast. Don't twist it even slightly. People
walking around with Pancho Villa-style crossed ammo belts are asking for
a stoppage: twist the link and it'll jam.

The M-249 Minimi uses a 200-round belt in a plastic carrier, but the problem
of changing it remains.

Belted ammo also rattles a lot, and as I said spares are hard to carry in an
accessible manner. Weapons like the GPMG find a fire position and settle in,
and are crewed by two men: one to fire, one to keep the gun fed.

It offers a GM useful ways to torment a player :)

Belted ammo in vehicles, fixed emplacements, etc works fine, BTW: it's
just less manageable than magazines for a weapon you run around with.

--
When you have shot and killed a man, you have defined your attitude towards
him. You have offered a definite answer to a definite problem. For better
or for worse, you have acted decisively.
In fact, the next move is up to him.

Paul J. Adam paul@********.demon.co.uk
Message no. 2
From: Ioannis Pantelidis <jpante@******.COMPULINK.GR>
Subject: Re: Belt Feed (was: Realistic Autofire Rates)
Date: Fri, 11 Aug 1995 10:35:27 +0300
On Thu, 10 Aug 1995, Paul Jonathan Adam wrote:

> > I feel that unlike the other modes of fire such as SA or BF, FA
> > is rather uncontrolled. I HAVE never had the oppurtunity to shoot a
> > weapon capable of autofire (such things are illegal in Canada) but from
> > what I'm told, you can control how much ammo one with the proper amount
> > of training - however, you still consume a lot of rounds in FA and accuracy
Sorry for the interapion but my brother has just came from the army (the
army in greece is a must) and he said me that you have 3 option on your
assault rifle SA BF and FA but when it hit 10 rounds it stpos and you
need to press again the button for 10 rounds again to go out.the
difference at the recoil penalty (if you are using it and holding it properly)
is very liitle comparing to the BF (3 bullets)
:)
jpante@*********.gr
I am the Way,the Truth and the Life (Gospel of john 14,6)
Message no. 3
From: Nilo Nolasco <nilo@*******.COM>
Subject: Re: Belt Feed (was: Realistic Autofire Rates)
Date: Fri, 11 Aug 1995 16:37:18 -0600
On Fri, 11 Aug 1995, Ioannis Pantelidis wrote:
> > > I feel that unlike the other modes of fire such as SA or BF, FA
> > > is rather uncontrolled. I HAVE never had the oppurtunity to shoot a
> > > weapon capable of autofire (such things are illegal in Canada) but from
> > > what I'm told, you can control how much ammo one with the proper amount
> assault rifle SA BF and FA but when it hit 10 rounds it stpos and you
> need to press again the button for 10 rounds again to go out.the
> difference at the recoil penalty (if you are using it and holding it properly)

Okay, so YOU CAN control the number of rounds fired in FA, but
how many times can one pull the trigger in 3 to 5 seconds (which would
equal one combat turn)? Five, six times, maybe more... Now the firearms
in SR are probably more lightweight, readily handles recoil quite well,
AND probably has FASTER cyclic rates for FA - yet, it fires a WHOLE LOT
SLOWER for FA. I know, I know, it's a game balance thing. Still, there
has got to be a way to make FA rates in Shadowrun more realistic - yet
survivable like what I've tried to do with my random rates of fire for my
campaign.

NN
Message no. 4
From: "Me, Myself, And I" <lonewolf@***********.DK>
Subject: Re: Belt Feed (was: Realistic Autofire Rates)
Date: Sat, 12 Aug 1995 04:06:50 +100
On 11 Aug 95 at 16:37, Nilo Nolasco used FA on his deck and wrote:

> Now the firearms in SR are probably more lightweight, readily handles
> recoil quite well, AND probably has FASTER cyclic rates for FA - yet,
> it fires a WHOLE LOT SLOWER for FA. I know, I know, it's a game
> balance thing. Still, there has got to be a way to make FA rates in
> Shadowrun more realistic - yet survivable like what I've tried to do with
> my random rates of fire for my campaign.

Yeah. Talking about *FAST* cyclic rates. Take a look at the Ruger
Thunderbolt Heavy Pistol in the Lone Star Sourcebook. It fires 1500 rounds
per second! To bad it can only make BF. A really neat gun.

Nevertheless, you could allow the players to fire some 20 or perhaps 30 rounds
instead of the normal 10. That would make them empty their clips in a hurry!
And they probably won't hit the intended target with the last 10-20 rounds or so,
but perhaps some other interesting targets would get a nice couple of holes by
accident? "no you stupid sammie - that's my new car!" *grin*.

Oh. And minigun - well they would fire even faster, and hit *nothing* unless
somebody in the team has a tendency to roll above 20 or so.

This leads to a new question though. How do you resolve the outcome of all
those bullets flying around? Use the stray shot rule? Damn - It seems that
more and more questions pop op out of nowhere.

Oh. It's getting early in the morning. Better catch some zzzzzz...

CU
Message no. 5
From: Paul Jonathan Adam <Paul@********.DEMON.CO.UK>
Subject: Re: Belt Feed (was: Realistic Autofire Rates)
Date: Fri, 11 Aug 1995 17:18:51 GMT
> On Thu, 10 Aug 1995, Paul Jonathan Adam wrote:

Actually I didn't. Sorry. :)

>>> I feel that unlike the other modes of fire such as SA or BF, FA
>>> is rather uncontrolled. I HAVE never had the oppurtunity to shoot a
>>> weapon capable of autofire (such things are illegal in Canada) but from
>>> what I'm told, you can control how much ammo one with the proper amount
>>> of training - however, you still consume a lot of rounds in FA and accuracy

Being British I wouldn't know, except that autofire weapons *are* legal in
Canada... for the Army, anyway ;)

> Sorry for the interapion but my brother has just came from the army (the
> army in greece is a must) and he said me that you have 3 option on your
> assault rifle SA BF and FA but when it hit 10 rounds it stpos and you
> need to press again the button for 10 rounds again to go out.the
> difference at the recoil penalty (if you are using it and holding it properly)
> is very liitle comparing to the BF (3 bullets)
> :)

Ten-round burst limiter on FA? Never heard of that... Doesn't mean it's not
true, in fact it makes a fair bit of sense.

Firing 5.56mm rifles on FA (briefly) they don't kick much. The SA80 has a
x4 SUSAT scope, though, and you notice the vibration in autofire a lot more.
You'd have trouble keeping a ten-round burst on a Figure-11 at 100 yards,
although you would certainly put three or four in. At 200, switch to singles.

The LSW fired from its bipod (or the old L4A3 Bren Gun) could keep bursts
of three or four rounds on target out to 300 or more. Bipods help a lot.
They also cut your mobility and reaction time.

--
When you have shot and killed a man, you have defined your attitude towards
him. You have offered a definite answer to a definite problem. For better
or for worse, you have acted decisively.
In fact, the next move is up to him.

Paul J. Adam paul@********.demon.co.uk

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