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Message no. 1
From: The Kumquat <LAYBROWNJT@***.CUIS.EDU>
Subject: Berserking Deckers
Date: Tue, 28 Nov 1995 01:50:37 -0600 (CST)
As a strict by-the-book Shadowrun GM, I run into the strangest
contradictions and odd rules conflicts when I try to avoid the dreaded House
Rule. Seeing as how the people at FASA are sometimes ambiguous or just plain
not together on some rules sections (ie magic), in an otherwise excellent rules
system with great game balance, I sometimes run into cases like the one I will
present for everyone's opinions on.
One of the PC's in my campaign is a burned-out wolf Shaman. After
significant losses to his magic attribute from wounds and other factors, he
decided to become a decker. He is now an excellent decker, able to make
datasteals in all but the very best systems. As we all know, one of his totem
disadvantages (the only one, I believe) is that he has a chance of "beserking"
when wounded, attacking the nearest living thing with all of his strength until
the rage is over. Herein lies an interesting question: If Black IC scores a
wound on his physical body, what happens? Does he jack out and savagely toast
his poor comrade who was nice enough to watch over him while he was jacked in?
Or does he berserk in the matrix, become catatonic, or just ignore the berserk
because his conciousness is in the matrix? Hoping to get everyone's input...

Just My Two Pence.
The Kumquat

Support Whirled Peas.
Message no. 2
From: U-Gene <R3STG@***.CC.UAKRON.EDU>
Subject: Re: Berserking Deckers
Date: Tue, 28 Nov 95 09:44:52 EST
Kumquat wrote:
[snip -- berserking shamens in the matrix]

I don't think he would attack his friends. If he jacked out I think he would
end up smashing his cyberdeck in his rage. Imagine how angry some players
might get as the shaman smashes a piece of equipment that could range into
the millions of nuyens. :)

More likely though, I think he would berserk in the matrix and destroy all the
ICE in the node. I don't think he would have the presence of mind to jack-out.
Or I suppose he might lash out blindly while still jacked in. Hmmmmm....
That's definitly a strange situation. I would count on the former I think.

Hope I helped.

U-Gene << oh boy oh boy ohboyohboyohboyohboyohboyohboy >>
Message no. 3
From: Sgt Pepper <GRBENNET@*****.CIS.ECU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Berserking Deckers
Date: Tue, 28 Nov 95 17:34:51 EST
On Tue, 28 Nov 1995 03:07:07 -0500 The Kumquat said:
> One of the PC's in my campaign is a burned-out wolf Shaman. After
>significant losses to his magic attribute from wounds and other factors, he
>decided to become a decker. He is now an excellent decker, able to make
>datasteals in all but the very best systems. As we all know, one of his totem
>disadvantages (the only one, I believe) is that he has a chance of
"beserking"
>the rage is over. Herein lies an interesting question: If Black IC scores a
>wound on his physical body, what happens? Does he jack out and savagely toast
>his poor comrade who was nice enough to watch over him while he was jacked in?
>Or does he berserk in the matrix, become catatonic, or just ignore the berserk
>because his conciousness is in the matrix? Hoping to get everyone's input...
>
I would have the decker go berserk in the matrix. But since it is an effect of
the token, given him some bonuses for avoiding, like -x to the t#, where x is
the number of magic point lost, or something like that.

SGt Pepper
Message no. 4
From: Sgt Pepper <GRBENNET@*****.CIS.ECU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Berserking Deckers
Date: Tue, 28 Nov 95 17:51:52 EST
hoi,
couple of requests
1. does anyone have a file with all the errata for the various rule books.
if u have a file, e-mail it to me please.

2. has anyone done a conversion of the 1st edition adventures to second
edition? if so, could you e-mail that to me.

well, guess i need to give u my e-mail address: GRBENNET@*****.CIS.ECU.EDU
Message no. 5
From: "A Halliwell" <u5a77@**.keele.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: Berserking Deckers
Date: Tue, 28 Nov 1995 23:07:01 +0000 (GMT)
>
> hoi,
> couple of requests
> 1. does anyone have a file with all the errata for the various rule books.
> if u have a file, e-mail it to me please.
>
> 2. has anyone done a conversion of the 1st edition adventures to second
> edition? if so, could you e-mail that to me.

NO! NO! NO! You want to convert FROM 2nd TO 1st. I hate 2nd Ed with a
passion.

!st Ed RULES!!!!
--
______________________________________________________________________________
| |What to do if you find yourself stuck in a crackin |
|u5a77@**.keele.ac.uk |the ground beneath a giant bolder, which you can't |
| |move, with no hope of rescue. |
|Andrew Halliwell |Consider how lucky you are that life has been good |
|Principal in:- |to you so far... |
|Comp Sci & Visual Arts | -The BOOK, Hitchhikers guide to the galaxy. |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Message no. 6
From: Marc A Renouf <jormung@*****.umich.edu>
Subject: Re: Berserking Deckers
Date: Tue, 28 Nov 1995 18:34:01 -0500 (EST)
On Tue, 28 Nov 1995, A Halliwell wrote:

> NO! NO! NO! You want to convert FROM 2nd TO 1st. I hate 2nd Ed with a
> passion.
>
> !st Ed RULES!!!!

I thought that too until I read *all* of the 2nd Ed rules
(cover-to-cover). This was just after 2nd Ed came out, and we were
trying to decide whether or not to shell out the money. Taken all
together, the changes make the game both more realistic, more consistent,
and more playable. Taken singly, they seem like trash.

Marc
Message no. 7
From: bmeador@*******.net (Buddy Meador)
Subject: Re: Berserking Deckers
Date: Tue, 28 Nov 1995 20:46:43 -0500
>
>
>On Tue, 28 Nov 1995, A Halliwell wrote:
>
>> NO! NO! NO! You want to convert FROM 2nd TO 1st. I hate 2nd Ed with a
>> passion.
>>
>> !st Ed RULES!!!!
>
> I thought that too until I read *all* of the 2nd Ed rules
>(cover-to-cover). This was just after 2nd Ed came out, and we were
>trying to decide whether or not to shell out the money. Taken all
>together, the changes make the game both more realistic, more consistent,
>and more playable. Taken singly, they seem like trash.
>
I just wrote to FASA's new address because I bought a Hardcover 2nd a few
years back just about right after it came out and found out just four months
ago it is a misprint and missing 8 pages one of them being the conclusion to
the skill list! If anyone knows FASA's number or has encountered a problem
like this let me know or if anyone know's how FASA will respond again I ask
you to reply.

Buddy Meador "Stryx"
bmeador@*******.net
Message no. 8
From: tkerby@***.net (Tim Kerby)
Subject: Re: Berserking Deckers
Date: Tue, 28 Nov 95 19:54:01 EST
On Tue, 28 Nov 1995 03:07:01 -0500 The Kumquat wrote:

>Herein lies an interesting question: If Black IC scores a
>wound on his physical body, what happens? Does he jack out and savagely toast
>his poor comrade who was nice enough to watch over him while he was jacked in?
>Or does he berserk in the matrix, become catatonic, or just ignore the berserk
>because his conciousness is in the matrix? Hoping to get everyone's input...

I would say that when jacked in, the Matrix is his reality, and therefore he would
beserk and attack the nearest "living" construct, IC, persona, what have you,
without regard to his own safety (all dice used on attack programs).


____TIM KERBY____ |===================================================
tkerby@***.net |"Never relax. Your run may be over, but someone, somewhere,
drekhead@***.com | is just starting his and the target could be you."
_________________ |===================================================
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Message no. 9
From: cukoo@*****.net (The Cuckoo Clock)
Subject: Re: Berserking Deckers
Date: Tue, 28 Nov 1995 18:26:32 -0800
>On Tue, 28 Nov 1995 03:07:01 -0500 The Kumquat wrote:
>
>>Herein lies an interesting question: If Black IC scores a
>>wound on his physical body, what happens? Does he jack out and savagely toast
>>his poor comrade who was nice enough to watch over him while he was jacked in?
>>Or does he berserk in the matrix, become catatonic, or just ignore the berserk
>>because his conciousness is in the matrix? Hoping to get everyone's input...
>
>I would say that when jacked in, the Matrix is his reality, and therefore
he would
>beserk and attack the nearest "living" construct, IC, persona, what have
you,
>without regard to his own safety (all dice used on attack programs).

I don't have a good answer, but I tend to disagree with the above, when a
decker "attacks" in the matrix, he isn't really doing anything savage or
violent, but manipulating programs and modifying their codes to the most
effect. I would think a "berserk" decker would tend to physical violence.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bring us a pitcher of beer every five minutes until someone passes out..........
...Then bring one every 7 minutes.

- Rodney Dangerfield, Back to School
Message no. 10
From: "Damion Milliken" <adm82@***.edu.au>
Subject: Re: Berserking Deckers
Date: Wed, 29 Nov 1995 17:12:28 +1100 (EST)
Sgt Pepper writes:

> 1. does anyone have a file with all the errata for the various rule books.
> if u have a file, e-mail it to me please.

All of the erratas are located at Paolos SR archive.

> 2. has anyone done a conversion of the 1st edition adventures to second
> edition? if so, could you e-mail that to me.

It doesn't take long to do it yourself, I can't see what you'd gain by
having someone else tell you what to do... %-)

--
Damion Milliken University of Wollongong E-mail: adm82@***.edu.au
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Message no. 11
From: "Damion Milliken" <adm82@***.edu.au>
Subject: Re: Berserking Deckers
Date: Wed, 29 Nov 1995 17:18:31 +1100 (EST)
The Cuckoo Clock writes:

> > I would say that when jacked in, the Matrix is his reality, and therefore
> > he would beserk and attack the nearest "living" construct, IC,
persona,
> > what have you, without regard to his own safety (all dice used on attack
> > programs).
>
> I don't have a good answer, but I tend to disagree with the above, when a
> decker "attacks" in the matrix, he isn't really doing anything savage or
> violent, but manipulating programs and modifying their codes to the most
> effect. I would think a "berserk" decker would tend to physical violence.

Well, it depends on how deeply you feel a decker gets involved with
decking. I'd be prone to thinking that in the computer generated reality,
where launching an attack program is depicted /inside your brain/ as
punching the snot out of something, then a burst of violence could be all
too well contained within the matrixs reality. I'd also think that a decker
would get very deeply involved in whatever task he was doing in the matrix,
sufficiently so so that he was more or less ignorant of the real world. I
would say that the shaman/decker would loose his anger on matrix constructs,
particularily the ICE that damaged him.

--
Damion Milliken University of Wollongong E-mail: adm82@***.edu.au
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Message no. 12
From: "Mark Steedman" <RSMS@***.rgu.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: Berserking Deckers
Date: Wed, 29 Nov 1995 08:43:35 GMT
> From: Sgt Pepper <GRBENNET@*****.CIS.ECU.EDU>
writes

> 2. has anyone done a conversion of the 1st edition adventures to second
> edition? if so, could you e-mail that to me.
>
See the back of SR2 where FASA list guideline fro exactly this
problem. Basically all you need to do is subsitute 2nded/1sted weapon
codes and spell damage codes by looking them up and 'fiddle' any
adventure specific stuff.

> well, guess i need to give u my e-mail address: GRBENNET@*****.CIS.ECU.EDU
>
not really as its listed in the from above but some folks might need
it.

Mark
Message no. 13
From: Guy Swartwood <gswartwo@*********.WichitaKS.ATTGIS.COM>
Subject: Re: Berserking Deckers
Date: Wed, 29 Nov 95 08:09:00 PST
<<Berserking Decker info >>

>I don't have a good answer, but I tend to disagree with the above, when a
>decker "attacks" in the matrix, he isn't really doing anything savage or
>violent, but manipulating programs and modifying their codes to the most
>effect. I would think a "berserk" decker would tend to physical violence.

I tend to disagree with you on that last statements because that the intent
of the decker
using the programs is still violence. When I use an attack program to crush
the IC, I might in reality be altering it with code or whatever, but in my
mind, I am trying to destroy it or shut it down. I think that deckers do
know what they are doing exactly. WHen they launch an attack program at
something, they know exactly the nature of the program and what it does in
reality; alas, they still meant to do damage to the IC which in effect is
violence.

Guy Swartwood corporate decker by day, shadowrunner at night.
wildman@******.net
gswartwo@*********.wichitaks.attgis.com
Message no. 14
From: Sgt Pepper <GRBENNET@*****.CIS.ECU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Berserking Deckers
Date: Wed, 29 Nov 95 09:46:01 EST
On Wed, 29 Nov 1995 01:09:16 -0500 Damion Milliken said:
>Sgt Pepper writes:
>> 2. has anyone done a conversion of the 1st edition adventures to second
>> edition? if so, could you e-mail that to me.
>
>It doesn't take long to do it yourself, I can't see what you'd gain by
>having someone else tell you what to do... %-)
>
Yeah, I know that, Im just lazy and hoped that some else had already done
the work. 8-)
Message no. 15
From: GLENN.ROBERTSON@***.Edu
Subject: Re: Berserking Deckers
Date: Wed, 29 Nov 1995 12:15:51 -0700 (MST)
> >I would say that when jacked in, the Matrix is his reality, and therefore
> > he would beserk and attack the nearest "living" construct, IC,
> >persona, what have you,
> >without regard to his own safety (all dice used on attack programs).
>
> I don't have a good answer, but I tend to disagree with the above, when a
> decker "attacks" in the matrix, he isn't really doing anything savage or
> violent, but manipulating programs and modifying their codes to the most
> effect. I would think a "berserk" decker would tend to physical violence.

I beg to differ on opinions, but here is mine. When berserk, an
individual loses touch with reality. Hence they attack friends, things
they have no chance of defeating, etc. Since they don't perceive reality
during that time, they wouldn't have the consciousness to jack out, let
alone attack whoever is watching their meat. As I recall (I may be wrong
again), when a decker is jacked he is not aware of everything going on
around him unless he makes a conscious effort to check. So, if he loses
touch, the matrix would suffer his berserking rage as that is what he was
focused on prior to succumbing to the berserking effects.

Glenn
Message no. 16
From: The Digital Mage <mn3rge@****.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: Berserking Deckers
Date: Wed, 29 Nov 1995 21:51:24 +0000 (GMT)
On Wed, 29 Nov 1995 GLENN.ROBERTSON@***.edu wrote:

> I beg to differ on opinions, but here is mine. When berserk, an
> individual loses touch with reality. Hence they attack friends, things
> they have no chance of defeating, etc. Since they don't perceive reality
> during that time, they wouldn't have the consciousness to jack out, let
> alone attack whoever is watching their meat. As I recall (I may be wrong
> again), when a decker is jacked he is not aware of everything going on
> around him unless he makes a conscious effort to check. So, if he loses
> touch, the matrix would suffer his berserking rage as that is what he was
> focused on prior to succumbing to the berserking effects.

Here's another idea, agreeing with you the shaman wouldn't jack out, but
he also wouldn't have the necessary thoughts to deck and run programs. In
other words he sees teh IC in front of him, and he leaps forward to lock
his arms around it and crush the life out of it. But his persona does
nothing, he's not activating a program etc, instead he carries out those
physical actions in reality crashing over teh table his deck was nestled
on, smashing into a wall, whilst swiping teh curtains and standing lamp
down to teh floor. The jack gets ripped out, and he now suffers dump
shock.

This is about teh time where teh corp strike team enter having been
tipped off by a Trace and Report :)

The Digital Mage : mn3rge@****.ac.uk
"So that which I imagine, is that which I believe" -Rush
Shadowrun Web Site http://www.bath.ac.uk/~mn3rge/Shadowrun.html
Message no. 17
From: "Gurth" <gurth@******.nl>
Subject: Re: Berserking Deckers
Date: Thu, 30 Nov 1995 11:15:10 +0100
The Digital Mage said on29 Nov 95...

> Here's another idea, agreeing with you the shaman wouldn't jack out, but
> he also wouldn't have the necessary thoughts to deck and run programs. In
> other words he sees teh IC in front of him, and he leaps forward to lock
> his arms around it and crush the life out of it. But his persona does
> nothing, he's not activating a program etc, instead he carries out those
> physical actions in reality crashing over teh table his deck was nestled
> on, smashing into a wall, whilst swiping teh curtains and standing lamp
> down to teh floor. The jack gets ripped out, and he now suffers dump
> shock.

Not really. VR2 says that the thing to do when in the matrix is _wanting_ to do
certain things, like think to yourself "I want to attack that IC," and then it
happens. No need to go pressing keys to do things like that. So if the
shaman/decker would want to leap out and crush the IC with his fists, his deck
would interpret that as him launching his Attack-program, which would be made
apparent to the shaman/decker by his persona moving toward the IC and trying to
kill it with his fists...

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Isn't that what life's about? Doing stupid things because we haven't got
anything better to do?
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Character Mortuary: http://huizen.dds.nl/~mortuary/mortuary.html <-

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Message no. 18
From: The Digital Mage <mn3rge@****.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: Berserking Deckers
Date: Thu, 30 Nov 1995 12:53:03 +0000 (GMT)
On Thu, 30 Nov 1995, Gurth wrote:

> Not really. VR2 says that the thing to do when in the matrix is _wanting_ to do
> certain things, like think to yourself "I want to attack that IC," and then
it
> happens. No need to go pressing keys to do things like that. So if the
> shaman/decker would want to leap out and crush the IC with his fists, his deck
> would interpret that as him launching his Attack-program, which would be made
> apparent to the shaman/decker by his persona moving toward the IC and trying to
> kill it with his fists...
>
I wouldn't go along with this really, keys _are_ used, otherwise there
would only be pure cybernetic command, and cyberdecks would just be a box
with a dataport, chip ports and little else. And if keys can be used it
means that the decker still has motor control over his body -so if his
instinct is to actually throw a punch -rather than activate a program-
then it will be his physical body which would respond, not his icon.

Og course this is all IMHO :)

The Digital Mage : mn3rge@****.ac.uk
"So that which I imagine, is that which I believe" -Rush
Shadowrun Web Site http://www.bath.ac.uk/~mn3rge/Shadowrun.html
Message no. 19
From: sedahdro@*****.com (Victor Rodriguez, Jr)
Subject: Re: Berserking Deckers
Date: Thu, 30 Nov 95 16:46 EST
>I wouldn't go along with this really, keys _are_ used, otherwise there
>would only be pure cybernetic command, and cyberdecks would just be a box
>with a dataport, chip ports and little else. And if keys can be used it
>means that the decker still has motor control over his body -so if his
>instinct is to actually throw a punch -rather than activate a program-
>then it will be his physical body which would respond, not his icon.
According to Matrix 1.0 rules you would be right, but I believe Gurth is
using Matrix 2.0 rules in which a decker usually is running "hot" (pure
cybernetic control). If he uses a keyboard and other manual controls he is
considered to be running "cold". Check out VR2 p85 for further info.
---Sedah Drol
--
ATTN: Due to lack of interest, tomorrow has been canceled.
GC3.1
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Message no. 20
From: The Digital Mage <mn3rge@****.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: Berserking Deckers
Date: Fri, 1 Dec 1995 11:39:06 +0000 (GMT)
On Thu, 30 Nov 1995, Victor Rodriguez, Jr wrote:

> According to Matrix 1.0 rules you would be right, but I believe Gurth is
> using Matrix 2.0 rules in which a decker usually is running "hot" (pure
> cybernetic control). If he uses a keyboard and other manual controls he is
> considered to be running "cold". Check out VR2 p85 for further info.
> ---Sedah Drol
Yeah, in which case Gurth is quite correct. I can't blooming wait till I
get VR2 (probably for Xmas as I personally am skint at present :( )

The Digital Mage : mn3rge@****.ac.uk
"So that which I imagine, is that which I believe" -Rush
Shadowrun Web Site http://www.bath.ac.uk/~mn3rge/Shadowrun.html
Message no. 21
From: Nathan Walker <NTWALKER@******.SUNYGENESEE.CC.NY.US>
Subject: Re: Berserking Deckers
Date: Sat, 2 Dec 1995 09:20:18 -0500 (EST)
Klingon Name: Captain K'vort, Commander, DSF C7 "Victory"
MIME: We shoot them here.

From: The Digital Mage <mn3rge@****.ac.uk>
>get VR2 (probably for Xmas as I personally am skint at present :( )
^^^^^

Hmfh... Da*n british words. :)

Why dontcha's lurn how to tulk?

>>>>>>>>> Nate, the overly bored
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
| NTWalker@******.SUNYGENESEE.CC.NY.US |
| |
| I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy. |
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