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From:	Wolfchild nathan.olsen@*******.msus.edu
Subject:	Big Bag O' Questions(3)
Date:	Wed, 14 Jul 1999 19:49:36 -0500 (CDT)

Message no. 1 I'm trying this mail again as it seems my first attempt got eaten by the
digital wolf somewhere in the forest before it got to grandma's SR list.
:)

While I was at work today tirelessly performing my oh so dull and boring
jog, my mind wandered into SR things and got hopelessly stuck in a mire.
IOW, it's time to open that big bag o' questions again.

1) A physad(SR2) with Armed Combat of 5, Improved Armed Combat of 2, and
wielding a force 1 weapon focus knife in one hand and a force 3 weapon
focus knife in the other attacks Joe Schmoe. What dice does the character
roll, ignoring combat pool?

2) When a character uses a datajack connection to operate a normal
computer, what exactly does she see/feel/hear/etc?

3) Being that I don't like Physical Magicians as they are written (don't
like the spellcasting/conjuring and whatnot), what would be a good way to
increase the physad's natural abilities for Priority A in Magic? My gut
reaction is to give them two points worth of abilities for each magic
point. Would that be too powerful? Should it only be x1.5?

4) How much essence would an external cyber-smartlink cost? That is, using
normal cybernetic smartlink headware and connecting to the gun via a
datajack and fiberoptic cable instead of the standard palm-induction
thing. My best guess is 0.3 essence.

5) I was making a metahuman physad (SR2) with a gear requirement of about
20,000 nuyen and got stuck. Priorities A and C are tied up in Race and
Magic respectively, however that leaves the only option for resources as
priority B with a whopping 400,000 nuyen. That's a bit excessive for a
character who only needs 20,000. I came up with the following compromise.
Instead of A-Race, B-Resources, C-Magic, D-Skills, and E-Attributes, I
created her with A-Race, C-Resources, C-Magic, C-Skills, and E-Attributes.
Technically that's against the rules but it seems fair to me and solves
the finances problem for the character. Did I miss anything that would
unbalance the character?

6) What do other listmembers use for melee combat with two weapons?

Wolfchild - "Discinctaque in otia natus."
--
_,-/ "Desperanda tibi salva concordia socru." \-,_
,-~ / -Juvenal, Satire 6 \ ~-,
/' | /(_ "Quin tu istanc orationem hinc _)\ | `\
/' / \,_/ .\ veterem atque antiquam amoves?" /. \_,/ \ `\
| | /, ,-' -Plautus, Miles Gloriosus `-, ,\ | |
| | ,-, \ \,?| There are nights when the wolves are |@,/ / ,-, | |
| ,-|/ / ,_\,_/_ silent, and only the moon howls. _\_,/_ \ \|-, |
|/' | __, _) ZOMBIE@****.MANKATO.MSUS.EDU (_ ,__` | `\|
| `;-~_.--~ ZOMBIE@****.MANKATO.MSUS.EDU ~--._~-;' |
\ \__ http://krypton.mankato.msus.edu __/ /
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From:	Sebastian Wiers m0ng005e@*********.com
Subject:	Big Bag O' Questions(3)
Date:	Thu, 15 Jul 1999 00:44:22 -0500

Message no. 2 :1) A physad(SR2) with Armed Combat of 5, Improved Armed Combat of 2, and
:wielding a force 1 weapon focus knife in one hand and a force 3 weapon
:focus knife in the other attacks Joe Schmoe. What dice does the character
:roll, ignoring combat pool?

It would depend. Under the basic rules, they wopuld choose a wepon and
attack with it, and only that wepon (focus) would add dice to the attack.
In that case, the answer would be 10 dice (plus maybe 8 combat pool).
That's 5+3 skill, plus 2 dice to the test for improved abitlty.
If you were allowing some sort of two wepon attack, you migh count both
foci, for 11 dice (plus maybe 9 combat pool). That's 5+3+1 skill, plus 2
dice for improved abilty.
:
:2) When a character uses a datajack connection to operate a normal
:computer, what exactly does she see/feel/hear/etc?

Not much- there is no simsense (assist) converter in a regular computer.
It would be like acessing a datasoft- youd "know" the information, as if you
were reading it.

:3) Being that I don't like Physical Magicians as they are written (don't
:like the spellcasting/conjuring and whatnot), what would be a good way to
:increase the physad's natural abilities for Priority A in Magic? My gut
:reaction is to give them two points worth of abilities for each magic
:point. Would that be too powerful? Should it only be x1.5?

I think FASA tried this and didn't like the results. Even 9 power
points (at priority A) results in unbalancing characters. Remember, you are
talking about giving them 120 karma (or 60 karma) worth of power points!
You could maybe give them free astral perception, or let them be grade 1
intiaites.

:4) How much essence would an external cyber-smartlink cost? That is, using
:normal cybernetic smartlink headware and connecting to the gun via a
:datajack and fiberoptic cable instead of the standard palm-induction
:thing. My best guess is 0.3 essence.

That I can not answer.

:5) I was making a metahuman physad (SR2) with a gear requirement of about
:20,000 nuyen and got stuck. Priorities A and C are tied up in Race and
:Magic respectively, however that leaves the only option for resources as
:priority B with a whopping 400,000 nuyen. That's a bit excessive for a
:character who only needs 20,000. I came up with the following compromise.
:Instead of A-Race, B-Resources, C-Magic, D-Skills, and E-Attributes, I
:created her with A-Race, C-Resources, C-Magic, C-Skills, and E-Attributes.
:Technically that's against the rules but it seems fair to me and solves
:the finances problem for the character. Did I miss anything that would
:unbalance the character?

You basically were using the "sum to 10" sytem, which can be unbalancing
for non-mage / human characters. On the other hand, you were not using
"more meta's", so the character isn't going to stomp much booty anyhow...
You would do better with the old 100 point SR2 system, although it is
set up for "more meta's".

:6) What do other listmembers use for melee combat with two weapons?

We used the FoF "two wepon combat" skill rule. You need a special skill
that ONLY covers a single type of wepon combo (such as "2 knives"). You
roll dice equal to the total of your skill with each wepon, plus any bonus
dice, plus combat pool equal to the special skill. Dmage and reach are
averaged, always rounding down, for the two wepons. Its good to require one
wepon to be smaller than the other, and the larger to have only 1 reach. I
had a character using 2 clubs (an actual style, called "escrima") and the
results were rather nasty for what was a fairly minimal karma invesment.
The Cannon Companion will likely include an updated version of this
rule, hopefully more balanced (this would kill in Sr3, because it lets you
roll twice skill BEFORE combat pool is added). Sr3 does have a special rule
that any attacker with cyber implant wepons on both hands adds 50% to
strength (or is it attack power).

Mongoose

From:	Ulrich Haupt sandman@****.uni-oldenburg.de
Subject:	Big Bag O' Questions(3)
Date:	Thu, 15 Jul 1999 09:59:16 +0200

Message no. 3 Wolfchild wrote:
<snip introduction>
> 1) A physad(SR2) with Armed Combat of 5, Improved Armed Combat of 2, and
> wielding a force 1 weapon focus knife in one hand and a force 3 weapon
> focus knife in the other attacks Joe Schmoe. What dice does the character
> roll, ignoring combat pool?

Since we didn't use two handed combat I have no idea. :-)

> 2) When a character uses a datajack connection to operate a normal
> computer, what exactly does she see/feel/hear/etc?

Having no assist interface (cyberdeck) he can only access
raw data. If a datajack is the only cyberware the character
has I wouldn't give him any advantages. With headware memory
he could download the hard disk. With a data display he
could look at the data and with an encephalon or the like he
could use the computer without a keyboard which results in
faster operating. All IMveryHO!

> 3) Being that I don't like Physical Magicians as they are written (don't
> like the spellcasting/conjuring and whatnot), what would be a good way to
> increase the physad's natural abilities for Priority A in Magic? My gut
> reaction is to give them two points worth of abilities for each magic
> point. Would that be too powerful? Should it only be x1.5?

You could recalculate the force points gain for sorcerers
(SR2) from Priority B to A. IIRC it was from 25 to 35. That
means about 10 Karma points plus a bonus for additional
power. I'd give that 1 or 1.5 points worth of physads powers
if a I really had to. I wouldn't allow something like that
in my campaign. But you could include some more general
power for an A-adept like astral perception (which would
count 2(?) points) but can't be used for other powers).

> 4) How much essence would an external cyber-smartlink cost? That is, using
> normal cybernetic smartlink headware and connecting to the gun via a
> datajack and fiberoptic cable instead of the standard palm-induction
> thing. My best guess is 0.3 essence.
If weapon can use smartlink with a normal datajack a lot of
people wouldn't use induction pads. Datajacks are even less
obvious for illegal missuse than a hidden palm-induction
pad. The only disadvantage is a cable running from the gun
to your head. (Hey - who wants to drop his weapon anyway).
If you have an automatic jack-out for the cable it can be
automatically rolled into the weapon. And a lot of people
would try to save essence. BTW I'm not sure if you can save
essence because smartlink doesn't include the induction pad
only but also the processor unit and the cross sight on the retina.
Apart from that 0.3 sounds good IF you want to include that
option in your game.

> 5) I was making a metahuman physad (SR2) with a gear requirement of about
> 20,000 nuyen and got stuck.<snippi>

> I created her with A-Race, C-Resources, C-Magic, C-Skills, and E-Attributes.
> Technically that's against the rules but it seems fair to me and solves
> the finances problem for the character. Did I miss anything that would
> unbalance the character?
Try to find someone with the SR companion!

> 6) What do other listmembers use for melee combat with two weapons?
nothing

Hth - Sandman
(HopeThatHelps)

From:	Gurth gurth@******.nl
Subject:	Big Bag O' Questions(3)
Date:	Thu, 15 Jul 1999 11:02:51 +0200

Message no. 4 According to Wolfchild, at 19:49 on 14 Jul 99, the word on
the street was...

> 1) A physad(SR2) with Armed Combat of 5, Improved Armed Combat of 2, and
> wielding a force 1 weapon focus knife in one hand and a force 3 weapon
> focus knife in the other attacks Joe Schmoe. What dice does the character
> roll, ignoring combat pool?

10 dice, IMO. I'd say with weapon foci, only the highest rating applies.
The Improved Armed Combat power, however, still adds to the base skill
dice because it's not the same "source" of extra dice.

> 2) When a character uses a datajack connection to operate a normal
> computer, what exactly does she see/feel/hear/etc?

Probably nothing he or she doesn't without the datajack connection. I
imagine the datajack replaces the mouse/keyboard/trackball/touchpad of the
computer, but not the monitor. So to type an e-mail, you think the text
instead of punching some keys on the keyboard, but you still see it appear
in the computer's screen.

You may want to allow the character to "know" what's on the screen (or in
memory) but that's about it. This would be like reading everything that's
in memory and remembering it for as long as the computer is on, but
nothing more.

> 3) Being that I don't like Physical Magicians as they are written (don't
> like the spellcasting/conjuring and whatnot), what would be a good way to
> increase the physad's natural abilities for Priority A in Magic? My gut
> reaction is to give them two points worth of abilities for each magic
> point. Would that be too powerful? Should it only be x1.5?

1.5 times seems a better option to me than 2x the normal amount. Or maybe
you could give the adept something for free, like astral perception.

> 4) How much essence would an external cyber-smartlink cost? That is, using
> normal cybernetic smartlink headware and connecting to the gun via a
> datajack and fiberoptic cable instead of the standard palm-induction
> thing. My best guess is 0.3 essence.

For that purpose, I use the Colt Frontline smartlink, which is in NERPS:
ShadowLore (http://shadowrun.html.com/nerps/ShadowLore): Essence 0.2,
1,000 nuyen, Availability 5/6 days, Street Index 1.1, and it must connect
to the gun through a datajack. I think Wordman wrote it up.

> 5) I was making a metahuman physad (SR2) with a gear requirement of about
> 20,000 nuyen and got stuck. Priorities A and C are tied up in Race and
> Magic respectively, however that leaves the only option for resources as
> priority B with a whopping 400,000 nuyen. That's a bit excessive for a
> character who only needs 20,000. I came up with the following compromise.
> Instead of A-Race, B-Resources, C-Magic, D-Skills, and E-Attributes, I
> created her with A-Race, C-Resources, C-Magic, C-Skills, and E-Attributes.
> Technically that's against the rules but it seems fair to me and solves
> the finances problem for the character. Did I miss anything that would
> unbalance the character?

Actually, you have re-invented a rule from the first printing of SR1, that
later made an appearance in the Companion for SRII: if you replace the
letters by numbers (A=4, B=3, C=2, D=1, E=0) and allow 10 points worth of
priorities, you can do what you suggest. I would allow it, also in SR3.

> 6) What do other listmembers use for melee combat with two weapons?

Nothing, so far. There are rules in Fields of Fire, but they're not very
good IMHO, and at least a bit cumbersome to use.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Cooking with the devil, frying down in hell.
-> NAGEE Editor * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
->The Plastic Warriors Page: http://shadowrun.html.com/plasticwarriors/<-
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From:	Wolfchild nathan.olsen@*******.msus.edu
Subject:	Big Bag O' Questions(3)
Date:	Thu, 15 Jul 1999 17:28:58 -0500 (CDT)

Message no. 5 Note: I'm combining the responses into one post and not crediting anybody.
IOW, don't get mad if the formating makes it look like you said something
that you didn't.

>> 3) Being that I don't like Physical Magicians as they are written (don't
>> like the spellcasting/conjuring and whatnot), what would be a good way to
>> increase the physad's natural abilities for Priority A in Magic? My gut
>> reaction is to give them two points worth of abilities for each magic
>> point. Would that be too powerful? Should it only be x1.5?
>
>You could recalculate the force points gain for sorcerers
>(SR2) from Priority B to A. IIRC it was from 25 to 35. That
>means about 10 Karma points plus a bonus for additional
>power. I'd give that 1 or 1.5 points worth of physads powers
>if a I really had to. I wouldn't allow something like that
>in my campaign. But you could include some more general
>power for an A-adept like astral perception (which would
>count 2(?) points) but can't be used for other powers).

Sorcerers also gain the ability to conjure and access the astral in
addition to the force point gain. That's a hefty increase in magic ability
IMHO. That's why I'd prefer x1.5 at the minimum, perhaps with a mandatory
purchase of Astral Perception.

>> 5) I was making a metahuman physad (SR2) with a gear requirement of about
>> 20,000 nuyen and got stuck.<snippi>
>
>> I created her with A-Race, C-Resources, C-Magic, C-Skills, and E-Attributes.
>> Technically that's against the rules but it seems fair to me and solves
>> the finances problem for the character. Did I miss anything that would
>> unbalance the character?
>
>Try to find someone with the SR companion!

I knew someone would suggest this. We don't allow sourcebooks for
character generation. It helps keep begining characters from getting out
of hand.

>> 6) What do other listmembers use for melee combat with two weapons?
>
>Nothing, so far. There are rules in Fields of Fire, but they're not very
>good IMHO, and at least a bit cumbersome to use.

A house rule we've used here is that fighting with two melee weapons gives
the attacker an effective +1 reach for determining target numbers. The
only restrictions are that the off-hand weapon needs to be relatively
useful in the combat for attacking or blocking (no using a vegetable
peeler to block that troll's combat axe) and the combatant needs to have a
skill of at least 5 in both weapons (or a special skill devoted to the
style of lesser value than her armed combat skill in which case she rolls
the special skill, not armed combat).

Wolfchild - "Discinctaque in otia natus."
--
_,-/ "Desperanda tibi salva concordia socru." \-,_
,-~ / -Juvenal, Satire 6 \ ~-,
/' | /(_ "Quin tu istanc orationem hinc _)\ | `\
/' / \,_/ .\ veterem atque antiquam amoves?" /. \_,/ \ `\
| | /, ,-' -Plautus, Miles Gloriosus `-, ,\ | |
| | ,-, \ \,?| There are nights when the wolves are |@,/ / ,-, | |
| ,-|/ / ,_\,_/_ silent, and only the moon howls. _\_,/_ \ \|-, |
|/' | __, _) ZOMBIE@****.MANKATO.MSUS.EDU (_ ,__` | `\|
| `;-~_.--~ ZOMBIE@****.MANKATO.MSUS.EDU ~--._~-;' |
\ \__ http://krypton.mankato.msus.edu __/ /
`,-,`` /~zombie/lynx.htm '',-,'
((|))____/~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~\____((|))

From:	Bahamut Mighty Dragon Lord bahamut@**.com
Subject:	Big Bag O' Questions(3)
Date:	Thu, 15 Jul 1999 19:06:49 -0400

Message no. 6 On Thursday, July 15, 1999 1:44 AM, Sebastian Wiers [SMTP:m0ng005e@*********.com] wrote:
>
> :1) A physad(SR2) with Armed Combat of 5, Improved Armed Combat of 2, and
> :wielding a force 1 weapon focus knife in one hand and a force 3 weapon
> :focus knife in the other attacks Joe Schmoe. What dice does the character
> :roll, ignoring combat pool?
>
> It would depend. Under the basic rules, they wopuld choose a wepon and
> attack with it, and only that wepon (focus) would add dice to the attack.
> In that case, the answer would be 10 dice (plus maybe 8 combat pool).
> That's 5+3 skill, plus 2 dice to the test for improved abitlty.
> If you were allowing some sort of two wepon attack, you migh count both
> foci, for 11 dice (plus maybe 9 combat pool). That's 5+3+1 skill, plus 2
> dice for improved abilty.
> :
> :2) When a character uses a datajack connection to operate a normal
> :computer, what exactly does she see/feel/hear/etc?
>
>
> Not much- there is no simsense (assist) converter in a regular computer.
> It would be like acessing a datasoft- youd "know" the information, as if
you
> were reading it.
>
> :3) Being that I don't like Physical Magicians as they are written (don't
> :like the spellcasting/conjuring and whatnot), what would be a good way to
> :increase the physad's natural abilities for Priority A in Magic? My gut
> :reaction is to give them two points worth of abilities for each magic
> :point. Would that be too powerful? Should it only be x1.5?
>
>
> I think FASA tried this and didn't like the results. Even 9 power
> points (at priority A) results in unbalancing characters. Remember, you are
> talking about giving them 120 karma (or 60 karma) worth of power points!
> You could maybe give them free astral perception, or let them be grade 1
> intiaites.
>
> :4) How much essence would an external cyber-smartlink cost? That is, using
> :normal cybernetic smartlink headware and connecting to the gun via a
> :datajack and fiberoptic cable instead of the standard palm-induction
> :thing. My best guess is 0.3 essence.
>
>
> That I can not answer.
>
> :5) I was making a metahuman physad (SR2) with a gear requirement of about
> :20,000 nuyen and got stuck. Priorities A and C are tied up in Race and
> :Magic respectively, however that leaves the only option for resources as
> :priority B with a whopping 400,000 nuyen. That's a bit excessive for a
> :character who only needs 20,000. I came up with the following compromise.
> :Instead of A-Race, B-Resources, C-Magic, D-Skills, and E-Attributes, I
> :created her with A-Race, C-Resources, C-Magic, C-Skills, and E-Attributes.
> :Technically that's against the rules but it seems fair to me and solves
> :the finances problem for the character. Did I miss anything that would
> :unbalance the character?
>
>

Switch to SR3 problem solved

> You basically were using the "sum to 10" sytem, which can be
unbalancing
> for non-mage / human characters. On the other hand, you were not using
> "more meta's", so the character isn't going to stomp much booty anyhow...
> You would do better with the old 100 point SR2 system, although it is
> set up for "more meta's".
>
> :6) What do other listmembers use for melee combat with two weapons?
>
>
> We used the FoF "two wepon combat" skill rule. You need a special
skill
> that ONLY covers a single type of wepon combo (such as "2 knives"). You
> roll dice equal to the total of your skill with each wepon, plus any bonus
> dice, plus combat pool equal to the special skill. Dmage and reach are
> averaged, always rounding down, for the two wepons. Its good to require one
> wepon to be smaller than the other, and the larger to have only 1 reach. I
> had a character using 2 clubs (an actual style, called "escrima") and the
> results were rather nasty for what was a fairly minimal karma invesment.
> The Cannon Companion will likely include an updated version of this
> rule, hopefully more balanced (this would kill in Sr3, because it lets you
> roll twice skill BEFORE combat pool is added). Sr3 does have a special rule
> that any attacker with cyber implant wepons on both hands adds 50% to
> strength (or is it attack power).
>
> Mongoose
>
>
>

From:	runnerpaul@***.com runnerpaul@***.com
Subject:	Big Bag O' Questions(3)
Date:	Fri, 16 Jul 1999 16:48:57 -0400 (EDT)

Message no. 7 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

At 05:28 PM 7/15/99 -0500, Wolfchild wrote:
:>Try to find someone with the SR companion!
:
:I knew someone would suggest this. We don't allow sourcebooks for
:character generation. It helps keep begining characters from getting
: out of hand.

Well then, you're in luck. The SR companion is _not_ a sourcebook,
according to FASA.
It's a game system book, which places it in the same category as the
Core Rulebook and the Game Master's screen.

:)

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--
-- Paul Gettle, #186 of 1000 (RunnerPaul@*****.com)
PGP Fingerprint, Key ID:0x48F3AACD (RSA 1024, created 98/06/26)
C260 94B3 6722 6A25 63F8 0690 9EA2 3344

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From:	runnerpaul@***.com runnerpaul@***.com
Subject:	Big Bag O' Questions(3)
Date:	Fri, 16 Jul 1999 17:10:49 -0400 (EDT)

Message no. 8 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

At 11:02 AM 7/15/99 +0200, Gurth wrote:
:> 2) When a character uses a datajack connection to operate a normal
:> computer, what exactly does she see/feel/hear/etc?
:
:Probably nothing he or she doesn't without the datajack connection.
:I imagine the datajack replaces the
:mouse/keyboard/trackball/touchpad of the computer, but not the
:monitor. So to type an e-mail, you think the text instead of
:punching some keys on the keyboard, but you still see it appear in
:the computer's screen.

I guess I'm alone in this viewpoint, but the way I play it, I allow
an ASIST interface equipped personal computer to overlay the computer
display in the user's field of vision. To do this, the ASIST
converter must create a partial RAS Override to black out the part of
the field of vision that the display will appear in. The ASIST
converter then generates a virtual image of the display in the
blacked out area, giving the illusion of a virtual screen (that only
the user can see) floating in space.

Because I also assume that ASIST converters tap into the user's
kinesthetic sense, I figure that the computer would actually be able
to track head and eye position to calculate line-of-sight
information, allowing the "virtual screen" to remain in a fixed
position relative to the user's body, no matter where the user looks.

Of course, even if you don't think that ASIST converters are
sophisticated enough to pull stunts like partial RAS Overrides of the
visual field, there are other possibilities for screen free use of a
datajacked personal computer. ASIST can generate virtual sound as
easily as virtual images, and there would not need to be any override
of the user's natural senses; text-based data can be listened to
instead of read.

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--
-- Paul Gettle, #186 of 1000 (RunnerPaul@*****.com)
PGP Fingerprint, Key ID:0x48F3AACD (RSA 1024, created 98/06/26)
C260 94B3 6722 6A25 63F8 0690 9EA2 3344

---------------------------------------------------
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From:	Rand Ratinac docwagon101@*****.com
Subject:	Big Bag O' Questions(3)
Date:	Tue, 20 Jul 1999 03:50:33 -0400 (EDT)

Message no. 9 <Snippola(TM)>
> >> 5) I was making a metahuman physad (SR2) with a
> gear requirement of about
> >> 20,000 nuyen and got stuck.<snippi>
> >
> >> I created her with A-Race, C-Resources, C-Magic,
> C-Skills, and E-Attributes.
> >> Technically that's against the rules but it seems
> fair to me and solves
> >> the finances problem for the character. Did I
> miss anything that would
> >> unbalance the character?
> >
> >Try to find someone with the SR companion!
>
> I knew someone would suggest this. We don't allow
> sourcebooks for
> character generation. It helps keep begining
> characters from getting out
> of hand.
<Snippage(TM)>

Errr, Wolfchild - the SR Companion is not exactly a sourcebook. About a
quarter of it is optional rules for character generation and, in an
ideal world, would all be part of the core rules as options. IOW, if
you buy it, but DON'T use that quarter of the book, you've basically
wasted a quarter of your money, because you can't use that stuff later
on.

I'd REALLY suggest making the SR Companion an exception to your rules.
Go over it with your players and/or GM/s and pick and choose what
you'll use. If you don't, though, you're really missing out on a lot of
potential (esp. with the edges and flaws).

*Doc'...oh crap! Look at the time!!!

<sound of running feet and slamming door>*
==Doc'
(aka Mr. Freaky Big, Super-Dynamic Troll of Tomorrow)

.sig Sauer
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From:	Da Twink Daddy datwinkdaddy@*********.com
Subject:	Big Bag O' Questions(3)
Date:	Tue, 20 Jul 1999 05:23:59 -0500

Message no. 10 ----- Original Message -----
From: Rand Ratinac <docwagon101@*****.com>

> > I knew someone would suggest this. We don't allow
> > sourcebooks for
> > character generation. It helps keep beginning
> > characters from getting out
> > of hand.
> <Snippage(TM)>
>
> Errr, Wolfchild - the SR Companion is not exactly a sourcebook.
About a
> quarter of it is optional rules for character generation and, in an
> ideal world, would all be part of the core rules as options. IOW, if
> you buy it, but DON'T use that quarter of the book, you've basically
> wasted a quarter of your money, because you can't use that stuff
later
> on.

Yeah, although the SR Comp needs to be looked over by the GM just like
any other new book (including something like SR3 vs. SR2) it should
really be considered more 'core rules' than sourcebooks. FASA Puts the
companion in the same section with SR3 and the GM's Screen and the
Quick Start Guide, that is separate from any sourcebooks (even those
SR3 is based off of.)

Da Twink Daddy
bss03@*******.uark.edu
ICQ# 514984

From:	Sebastian Wiers m0ng005e@*********.com
Subject:	Big Bag O' Questions(3)
Date:	Tue, 20 Jul 1999 12:10:34 -0500

Message no. 11 :> >> 5) I was making a metahuman physad (SR2) with a
:> gear requirement of about
:> >> 20,000 nuyen and got stuck.<snippi>

:I'd REALLY suggest making the SR Companion an exception to your rules.

I would not. You are playing SR2, so you'd not be able to use the point
system in the new companion, and the old companion does contain more than
its share of problem causing stuff (munchkin edges and flaws, crappy
shapeshifter rules). The new Companion is good for SR3 and OK for SR2. The
old one is best just avoided.
On the other hand, the creation system you used above IS one alternative
in the old companion.

Mongoose

From:	Rand Ratinac docwagon101@*****.com
Subject:	Big Bag O' Questions(3)
Date:	Tue, 20 Jul 1999 20:43:38 -0400 (EDT)

Message no. 12 > :> >> 5) I was making a metahuman physad (SR2) with a
> :> gear requirement of about
> :> >> 20,000 nuyen and got stuck.<snippi>
>
> :I'd REALLY suggest making the SR Companion an
> exception to your rules.
>
> I would not. You are playing SR2, so you'd not be able to use
the point system in the new companion, and the old companion does
contain more than its share of problem causing stuff (munchkin edges
and flaws, crappy shapeshifter rules). The new Companion is good for
SR3 and OK for SR2. The old one is best just avoided.
> On the other hand, the creation system you used above IS one
alternative in the old companion.
>
> Mongoose

Which is WHY I made the suggestion in the first place, Mongoose. If the
SRC is considered core material for character generation, his character
is fine then.

I ALSO said that if they do let it in, they should go through it and
pick out which parts they think they should let in and which they
shouldn't. Personally, I don't see why the edges and flaws in the old
companion are "munchkinous", but if those guys think they are then they
should cut them, or use different costs. I think the building point
system in the old one is fine for SR2 characters (except you don't have
Otaku), and if they do too, they should be able to incorporate it. I'd
never (well, maybe in a "weird" campaign) allow shapeshifters in my
game anyway (I normally don't even allow the metahuman variants unless
the player has a good reason), so I'd cut that. If they want to use the
rules and they think they're fair, they should be able to.

All I'm saying is that they should have the choice. A lot of the SRC
pertains to character creation and unless it's allowed to be used at
character creation, you waste a bunch of money buying it. A blanket "no
sourcebooks" rule just hurts everyone involved. The GM should clear it
first, preferably in conference with the players, but the SRC is the
one other book that I think they should consider using at character
creation.

*Doc' snorts. "Munchkin, hah! Bulldrek. It all depends on how you use 'em!"*
==Doc'
(aka Mr. Freaky Big, Super-Dynamic Troll of Tomorrow)

.sig Sauer
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From:	Aaron Binns sparrow@***.net.au
Subject:	Big Bag O' Questions(3)
Date:	Wed, 21 Jul 1999 11:19:46 +1000

Message no. 13 > All I'm saying is that they should have the choice. A lot of the SRC
> pertains to character creation and unless it's allowed to be used at
> character creation, you waste a bunch of money buying it. A blanket "no
> sourcebooks" rule just hurts everyone involved. The GM should clear it
> first, preferably in conference with the players, but the SRC is the
> one other book that I think they should consider using at character
> creation.

unless the Gm doesnt HAVE SrC of course...

GreyWolf

>
> *Doc' snorts. "Munchkin, hah! Bulldrek. It all depends on how you use
'em!"*
> ==> Doc'
> (aka Mr. Freaky Big, Super-Dynamic Troll of Tomorrow)
>
> .sig Sauer
> _________________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Get your free @*****.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

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