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Message no. 1
From: shadowrn@*********.com (shadowrn@*********.com)
Subject: Bikes and Bullets?
Date: Tue Jul 30 15:05:02 2002
Drek, it's been so long since I started a string on here rather than just
replying to one I almost couldn't remember the email addy. Got a poser for
you all that I just happened to think about here recently. Never gave it much
thought before. Vehicular combat, I don't think (or I missed it), doesn't
provide for the possibility of what happens if you hit a target on a bike.
Does it hit the bike, or the rider? What would be the best way to discern
this? I'm not above using percentile dice so if there's anybody who's used
that method that'd be fine, or would it maybe be something like rolling a D6
and either a 5 or a 6, it hit the rider and it's them who has to stage down
the damage then? Whattaya think?

PS - Was thinking percentage would be anything above a 75. I realize the
chances are actually much higher but wanted to give the players a pretty fair
chance.
Message no. 2
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Damion Milliken)
Subject: Bikes and Bullets?
Date: Tue Jul 30 20:15:02 2002
KiltedJamesman@***.com writes:

> Vehicular combat, I don't think (or I missed it), doesn't provide for the
> possibility of what happens if you hit a target on a bike. Does it hit the
> bike, or the rider?

The implicit assumption in the rules as far as I can tell is that the bike
gets hit. I generally assume so, unless the shooter specifically attempts to
hit the rider, in which case I require a called shot. Not exactly truely
representative or realistic, I know, but it's been fine so far.

> PS - Was thinking percentage would be anything above a 75. I realize the
> chances are actually much higher but wanted to give the players a pretty
> fair chance.

Ha! In the vast majority of cases, the rider would have _more_ chance if
they personally had to resist the damage, than if their bike did. SR bikes
are about as tough as newborn kittens. Try it some time; shoot a bike with a
heavy pistol, and see how long it lasts. The average PC can soak much more
damage than the average bike.

--
Damion Milliken University of Wollongong
Unofficial Shadowrun Guru E-mail: dam01@***.edu.au
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Message no. 3
From: shadowrn@*********.com (ButtonMasher)
Subject: Bikes and Bullets?
Date: Tue Jul 30 21:20:01 2002
> Ha! In the vast majority of cases, the rider would have _more_ chance if
> they personally had to resist the damage, than if their bike did. SR bikes
> are about as tough as newborn kittens. Try it some time; shoot a bike with
a
> heavy pistol, and see how long it lasts. The average PC can soak much more
> damage than the average bike.
>
Absolutely.
Players in my games stopped being a the equivalent of a Shadowrunning
Go-Gang after one of them took one into combat and got splattered after
failing a crash test.

ButtonMasher
> --
> Damion Milliken University of Wollongong
> Unofficial Shadowrun Guru E-mail: dam01@***.edu.au
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> V- PS+ PE- Y+ PGP-@>++ t+@ 5@ X+>+++ R++ tv(-) b+ DI+++@ D-@ G+
> e++>++++ h--- r+++ y+++
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>
>
Message no. 4
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Lone Eagle)
Subject: Bikes and Bullets?
Date: Wed Jul 31 04:25:00 2002
>From: KiltedJamesman@***.com
>Drek, it's been so long since I started a string on here rather than just
>replying to one I almost couldn't remember the email addy. Got a poser for
>you all that I just happened to think about here recently. Never gave it
>much
>thought before. Vehicular combat, I don't think (or I missed it), doesn't
>provide for the possibility of what happens if you hit a target on a bike.
>Does it hit the bike, or the rider? What would be the best way to discern
>this? I'm not above using percentile dice so if there's anybody who's used
>that method that'd be fine, or would it maybe be something like rolling a
>D6
>and either a 5 or a 6, it hit the rider and it's them who has to stage down
>the damage then? Whattaya think?
>
>PS - Was thinking percentage would be anything above a 75. I realize the
>chances are actually much higher but wanted to give the players a pretty
>fair
>chance.

I haven't got my books nearby so I can't check, therefore I'm going to go
with my gut.

I'd treat the bike and rider as one entity, I'd halve the power and reduce
it with vehicular armour or reduce it with personal impact armour whichever
gives the lowest score, add the bike's bod dice to the character's body and
roll all of them together to stage the damage down and apply the damage on a
one for one basis to both damage tracks, e.g. the ram causes serious damage
after staging, the bike recieves (6/2 = 3) moderate damage, as does the
rider. The rider would then have to make a crash test to avoid cartwheeling
down the road after a nice little tank-slapper.



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Message no. 5
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Gurth)
Subject: Bikes and Bullets?
Date: Wed Jul 31 05:00:01 2002
According to KiltedJamesman@***.com, on Tue, 30 Jul 2002 the word on the street was...

> Drek, it's been so long since I started a string on here rather than just
> replying to one I almost couldn't remember the email addy.

Quick solution: reply to a message, then delete everything in it as well as the
Subject line :)

> Got a poser
> for you all that I just happened to think about here recently. Never gave
> it much thought before. Vehicular combat, I don't think (or I missed it),
> doesn't provide for the possibility of what happens if you hit a target
> on a bike. Does it hit the bike, or the rider?

The bike, as the bike is a vehicle, and we're talking about vehicle combat here. If
you want to hit the rider, you shoot at the rider (in which case you'll miss the
bike). If you want to damage them both, shoot at the bike, cause at least Serious
damage, and wait for the rider to fail a crash test :)

This is not perfect, but is quicker than figuring out which of the two actually gets
hit.

> What would be the best way
> to discern this? I'm not above using percentile dice so if there's
> anybody who's used that method that'd be fine, or would it maybe be
> something like rolling a D6 and either a 5 or a 6, it hit the rider and
> it's them who has to stage down the damage then? Whattaya think?

If you want to simulate this, I'd say roll a die like you say. This is quick and
easy, and also has the advantage of treating rider and bike as a single target. You
could still allow shots at one of the two, but I suggest applying a modifier to that.

> PS - Was thinking percentage would be anything above a 75. I realize the
> chances are actually much higher but wanted to give the players a pretty
> fair chance.

Would 75% be the chance of hitting the rider, or the bike? I'd probably put the
chance for hitting the bike at roughly 2/3 -- so you can use a D6, like you mentioned
above.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Huh?
-> Probably NAGEE Editor * ShadowRN GridSec * Triangle Virtuoso <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://plastic.dumpshock.com <-

GC3.12: GAT/! d- s:- !a>? C++(---) UL+ P(+) L++ E W--(++) N o? K w(--)
O V? PS+ PE@ Y PGP- t- 5++ X(+) R+++$ tv+(++) b++@ DI- D+ G+ e h! !r y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 6
From: shadowrn@*********.com (shadowrn@*********.com)
Subject: Bikes and Bullets?
Date: Thu Aug 1 00:35:01 2002
In a message dated 7/31/2002 5:05:09 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
Gurth@******.nl writes:

> > PS - Was thinking percentage would be anything above a 75. I realize the
> > chances are actually much higher but wanted to give the players a pretty
> > fair chance.
>
> Would 75% be the chance of hitting the rider, or the bike? I'd probably
put
> the
> chance for hitting the bike at roughly 2/3 -- so you can use a D6, like
you
> mentioned
> above.

What it meant, the way I was meaning it at least, would be anything below a
roll of 75 - it would hit the bike. Anything above, it would hit the rider.
Sound reasonable?
Message no. 7
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Gurth)
Subject: Bikes and Bullets?
Date: Thu Aug 1 05:25:05 2002
According to KiltedJamesman@***.com, on Thu, 01 Aug 2002 the word on the street was...

> What it meant, the way I was meaning it at least, would be anything below
> a roll of 75 - it would hit the bike. Anything above, it would hit the
> rider. Sound reasonable?

I'd say that's a bit high. Plus, if you want that kind of a chance then the 1-4 =
bike, 5-6 = rider on a D6 is easier for SR :)

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Huh?
-> Probably NAGEE Editor * ShadowRN GridSec * Triangle Virtuoso <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://plastic.dumpshock.com <-

GC3.12: GAT/! d- s:- !a>? C++(---) UL+ P(+) L++ E W--(++) N o? K w(--)
O V? PS+ PE@ Y PGP- t- 5++ X(+) R+++$ tv+(++) b++@ DI- D+ G+ e h! !r y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 8
From: shadowrn@*********.com (shadowrn@*********.com)
Subject: Bikes and Bullets?
Date: Thu Aug 1 23:05:01 2002
In a message dated 8/1/2002 5:30:30 AM Eastern Daylight Time, Gurth@******.nl
writes:

> I'd say that's a bit high. Plus, if you want that kind of a chance then the
> 1-4 =
> bike, 5-6 = rider on a D6 is easier for SR :)

That's probably what I'll go with then. That way I don't have to drag my D&D
dice around for SR games.

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