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Message no. 1
From: chaos@*****.com (Steven Ratkovich)
Subject: Bioware and Magic Loss
Date: Tue, 10 Sep 1996 19:44:00 -0500 (EST)
>>What do you all do about magic loss related to bioware? I know it says in
>the notes that bioware causes the same magic loss as cyberware does, but
>what do you think of the house rule we've been playing (almost by
>accident)? We rule that one point of magic allows for two body index
>worth of bioware. Ie you still lose a full point of magic, but you can
>put in two points of bioware, rather than one. After all, most bioware
>items have a pretty high body cost (no little 0.1 items like cyberware
>has to fill in the gaps) and nuyen wise you pay a high premium for
>bioware. And the stuff's meant to be a lot more mage-friendly, but the
>printed rules don't reflect that...
>
>
Actually, we've always played under the rule (optional and probably strictly
house, although I think the book mentions it) That the mainreason for Magic
loos is that most bioware is Invasive surgery... They have to roll a
resiste\ance test, same as if they'd taken deadly damage, to avoid losing
magic, otherwise they are fine and can use it. this helps them keep up with
the chromed sammies some...:)

Well, that my HO on the subject, what do you think, sirs?



Order is Illusion! Chaos is Bliss! Got any fours?
Not a flame, but a small glow:)
Message no. 2
From: Loki <loki@*******.com>
Subject: Re: Bioware and Magic Loss
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 01:49:59 -0700
Steven Ratkovich wrote:
>
> >>What do you all do about magic loss related to bioware? I know it says in
> >the notes that bioware causes the same magic loss as cyberware does, but
> >what do you think of the house rule we've been playing (almost by
> >accident)? We rule that one point of magic allows for two body index
> >worth of bioware. Ie you still lose a full point of magic, but you can
> >put in two points of bioware, rather than one. After all, most bioware
> >items have a pretty high body cost (no little 0.1 items like cyberware
> >has to fill in the gaps) and nuyen wise you pay a high premium for
> >bioware. And the stuff's meant to be a lot more mage-friendly, but the
> >printed rules don't reflect that...
> >
> >
> Actually, we've always played under the rule (optional and probably strictly
> house, although I think the book mentions it) That the mainreason for Magic
> loos is that most bioware is Invasive surgery... They have to roll a
> resiste\ance test, same as if they'd taken deadly damage, to avoid losing
> magic, otherwise they are fine and can use it. this helps them keep up with
> the chromed sammies some...:)
>
> Well, that my HO on the subject, what do you think, sirs?

I stick with the magic loss same as cyberware idea, mainly because mages
have to use clonal tissue even when replacing a limb or organ. It says
in S/R II that any other DNA pattern, even that of another magician will
reduce their magic rating by one. It's in the combat/healing section
under "Magicians and Damage" I believe.
@>-,--'--- Loki

CLARKE'S THIRD LAW:
Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.


Poisoned Elves http://www.netzone.com/~loki/
Message no. 3
From: "Gurth" <gurth@******.nl>
Subject: Re: Bioware and Magic Loss
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 11:12:31 +0100
Steven Ratkovich said on 19:44/10 Sep 96...

> Actually, we've always played under the rule (optional and probably strictly
> house, although I think the book mentions it) That the mainreason for Magic
> loos

Magic loos... now there's a concept! :)

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
I swore I'd never ever be like him...
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

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Message no. 4
From: chaos@*****.com (Steven Ratkovich)
Subject: Re: Bioware and Magic Loss
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 07:55:23 -0500 (EST)
>Steven Ratkovich said on 19:44/10 Sep 96...
>
>> Actually, we've always played under the rule (optional and probably strictly
>> house, although I think the book mentions it) That the mainreason for Magic
>> loos
>
>Magic loos... now there's a concept! :)
>
>
"You're mocking me, aren't you..."
-Buzz Lightyear, Toy Story



Order is Illusion! Chaos is Bliss! Got any fours?
Not a flame, but a small glow:)
Message no. 5
From: Peter Leitch <pleitch_hpcs@*******.com.au>
Subject: Re: Bioware and Magic Loss
Date: Sat, 14 Sep 1996 18:43:48 +1000
At 19:44 10/09/96 -0500, Steven Ratkovich wrote:
>>>What do you all do about magic loss related to bioware? I know it says in
>>the notes that bioware causes the same magic loss as cyberware does, but
>>what do you think of the house rule we've been playing (almost by
>>accident)? We rule that one point of magic allows for two body index
>>worth of bioware. Ie you still lose a full point of magic, but you can
>>put in two points of bioware, rather than one. After all, most bioware
>>items have a pretty high body cost (no little 0.1 items like cyberware
>>has to fill in the gaps) and nuyen wise you pay a high premium for
>>bioware. And the stuff's meant to be a lot more mage-friendly, but the
>>printed rules don't reflect that...
>>
>>
>Actually, we've always played under the rule (optional and probably strictly
>house, although I think the book mentions it) That the mainreason for Magic
>loos is that most bioware is Invasive surgery... They have to roll a
>resiste\ance test, same as if they'd taken deadly damage, to avoid losing
>magic, otherwise they are fine and can use it. this helps them keep up with
>the chromed sammies some...:)
>
>Well, that my HO on the subject, what do you think, sirs?

Nup, can't agree. We play it straight out of the book. If your magician
replaces a body part with bioware, what was theirs is cut away, and what
is not natural to them is put into them. I don't care if it was grown from
their own cells, it has been genengineered, which by definition means
that it is artificial. This means that the magician has lost a little piece of
him/herself, and if they do that, then they must pay the price.

PML

***************************************
Peter Leitch
<pleitch_hpcs@*******.com.au>
Canberra, Australia
Message no. 6
From: azanyun@****.com (Asher S Rosenberg)
Subject: Re: Bioware and Magic Loss
Date: Sun, 15 Sep 1996 14:04:34 PST
>Nup, can't agree. We play it straight out of the book. If your
>magician replaces a body part with bioware, what was theirs is cut away,
and
>what is not natural to them is put into them. I don't care if it was
grown
>from their own cells, it has been genengineered, which by definition
means
>that it is artificial. This means that the magician has lost a little
>piece of him/herself, and if they do that, then they must pay the price.

Do you include boiware (or other replacement) limbs in this definition? Lets say Freddy
Physad gets caught in the middle of a sniper rifle's cross
hairs. Unfortuntely for Freddy, he's having a REALLY bad Karma day, and
is rolling nothing but 1's and 2's. He receives Deadly Damage from the
shot, and then to make things worse, he rolls major organ damage, and
although he is taken to a hospital and stabilized through major invasive
surgery, he loses his left arm.
So far, Freddy has already had the (rather likely) chance of losing 2
magic points - 1 for the Deadly Wound and 1 for the Invasive surgery.
Are you saying that if Freddy wants a new arm, he has to pay 1 point of
Essence and another 1 Magic point? Although I do realize that this is the "by the
book" answer, it seems to be another factor stacking the odds
against PhysAds.
After all, with the way Freddy's luck's been going today, he's going to
be 3 magic points lower than he was when he started the Run. And that
doesn't even included the possibility that someone had to use (non
magical ) First Aid on him on the way to the hospital to keep him alive.
Message no. 7
From: Loki <loki@*******.com>
Subject: Re: Bioware and Magic Loss
Date: Sun, 15 Sep 1996 17:18:38 -0700
Asher S Rosenberg wrote:
>
<SNIP>
> Do you include boiware (or other replacement) limbs in this definition? Lets say
Freddy Physad gets caught in the middle of a sniper rifle's cross
> hairs. Unfortuntely for Freddy, he's having a REALLY bad Karma day, and
> is rolling nothing but 1's and 2's. He receives Deadly Damage from the
> shot, and then to make things worse, he rolls major organ damage, and
> although he is taken to a hospital and stabilized through major invasive
> surgery, he loses his left arm.
> So far, Freddy has already had the (rather likely) chance of losing 2
> magic points - 1 for the Deadly Wound and 1 for the Invasive surgery.
> Are you saying that if Freddy wants a new arm, he has to pay 1 point of
> Essence and another 1 Magic point? Although I do realize that this is the "by
the book" answer, it seems to be another factor stacking the odds
> against PhysAds.
<SNIP>

If the limb isn't replaced cybernetically, but rather is a flesh and
blood replacement then the phys-ad doesn't lose additional magic
provided the limb is 100% clonal. Even if the limb were type O (90%)
comaptible and from the tissue of a donor that was magicly active the
phys-ad would lose the point because it has to be of his own DNA
structure (page 115, S/R II). However, if a clonal limb wasn't
available, and the phys-ad had to settle for one that wasn't his own
tissue, he could later get the cloned limb and then pick the missing
magic point back up.

Also, limb replacement is covered under major invasive surgery rather
then drastic invasive, so there isn't a need for the additional magic
loss roll. (page 114, S/R II)


@>-,--'--- Loki

CLARKE'S THIRD LAW:
Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.

*********************************************
Poisoned Elves
http://www.netzone.com/~loki/
*********************************************
Message no. 8
From: azanyun@****.com (Asher S Rosenberg)
Subject: Re: Bioware and Magic Loss
Date: Sun, 15 Sep 1996 21:18:57 PST
><SNIP>
>If the limb isn't replaced cybernetically, but rather is a flesh and
>blood replacement then the phys-ad doesn't lose additional magic
>provided the limb is 100% clonal. Even if the limb were type O (90%)
>comaptible and from the tissue of a donor that was magicly active the
>phys-ad would lose the point because it has to be of his own DNA
>structure (page 115, S/R II). However, if a clonal limb wasn't
>available, and the phys-ad had to settle for one that wasn't his own
>tissue, he could later get the cloned limb and then pick the missing
>magic point back up.

Sorry, knew you could avoid the magic loss by going 100% clonal, but was
confusing the temporary magic point loss from a non clonal limb with more
permanent loss of points you would get from Cyber or Bioware.

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