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Message no. 1
From: Neon Samuria NeonSamuria@***********.com
Subject: bioware and the adept
Date: Sun, 3 Dec 2000 20:12:03 -0800
Greetings once again deckers, sammies, and mages of all ages.
One of my groupies brought a good question to me. How would Bioware
affect a Physical adept. I have looked in the manuals and cannot seem to
find a good answer. Thank you for your help in advance.

Neon Samuria

People see things as they are and ask Why,
I dream things that never where and say Why not.


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Message no. 2
From: Burke, Tim Tim.Burke@***.gov.au
Subject: bioware and the adept
Date: Mon, 4 Dec 2000 16:44:24 +1100
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Bioware effects adepts in the exact same way
as cyberware, ie it reduces the magic rating
of the adept, though not the essence. The body
index measures this decline.

***********************************************
Manx // timburke@******.net.au // #950
"The problem with the world is that
everyone's a few drinks behind."
- Humphrey Bogart
***********************************************
Message no. 3
From: Sebastian Wiers m0ng005e@*****.com
Subject: bioware and the adept
Date: Mon, 4 Dec 2000 17:25:28 -0600
: One of my groupies brought a good question to me. How would Bioware
:affect a Physical adept. I have looked in the manuals and cannot seem to
:find a good answer. Thank you for your help in advance.
:
:Neon Samuria

M&M p. 78 has a section titled "Bioware and the Awkened"- its in large
bold face type. If you are using bioware, you should have that book- the
rules are different from Shadowtech's, and work better with SR3.
Admitedly,applying those rules to adepts might cause some confusion, but
the info is there. As recall the last discusion going, it seems they amount
to "bioware always reduces your magic, no ifs ands or buts". The one
(minor) break is, if you later reduce your BI total, you get the magic back-
it never causes "burnout".

-Sebastian Wiers
Message no. 4
From: Neon Samuria NeonSamuria@***********.com
Subject: bioware and the adept
Date: Mon, 4 Dec 2000 20:51:16 -0800
When we last left our heros tim burke said;


>Bioware effects adepts in the exact same way
>as cyberware, ie it reduces the magic rating
>of the adept, though not the essence. The body
>index measures this decline.
>
>***********************************************

agreed I would think the same thing. but you are supose to add 3 to the
essence for the index. does that mean 3 points free or what?

Neon Samuria

People see things as they are and ask Why,
I dream things that never where and say Why not.


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Message no. 5
From: Sebastian Wiers m0ng005e@*****.com
Subject: bioware and the adept
Date: Tue, 5 Dec 2000 17:15:06 -0600
:>Bioware effects adepts in the exact same way
:>as cyberware, ie it reduces the magic rating
:>of the adept, though not the essence. The body
:>index measures this decline.
:>
:>***********************************************
:
:agreed I would think the same thing. but you are supose to add 3 to the
:essence for the index. does that mean 3 points free or what?
:
:Neon Samuria

No. Magic is reduced by the total BIO index of the bioware, not on
ESSENCE index.
BI is the number listed with each piece of bioware you get, and total BI
is just that- the total. It goe UP as you get more bioware. ESSENCE index
is completely different- its an essence based number that is used to
determine how much bioware your character can have without adversely
affecting thier physical well being, per the "excessive bioware" drawbacks
in M&M.
Magic loss is not an "excessive bioware drawback"- its a drawback to ALL
bioware.

Mongoose
Message no. 6
From: GSW13 darklordsatin@*******.com
Subject: bioware and the adept
Date: Tue, 5 Dec 2000 21:52:32 -0500
> Greetings once again deckers, sammies, and mages of all ages.
> One of my groupies brought a good question to me. How would Bioware
> affect a Physical adept. I have looked in the manuals and cannot seem to
> find a good answer. Thank you for your help in advance.
>
> Neon Samuria

I've read and reread the rules on this a number of times just because we had
problems in my group and the interpretation I took is this:

Magic starts as Essence, this is well known, now for the hard part. This
magic rating is your actual Magic rating and is used for determining all
effects of anything based on your Magic, such as something with a Magic*X
radius or adds Magic dice or whatever. Then you subtract your body index
from you essence to get a second Magic rating, this second Magic rating is
used to determine how many adept points you get or how high the force of a
spell you can safely cast is.

/*----------------------------------------------------------------
GSW13, George, Mr. Peabody, DL (Darklord) Satin, The God of Nothing,
CybrWyrm, Prince of Non-Sequitors, Keeper of Osigwad, President: Society of
Non-Violent Anarchists for a better America, Co-Founder: Danorgeian
Preformational Party, Waxman, The Virus, Bard of Osigwad, etc.
----------------------------------------------------------------*/
Message no. 7
From: Neon Samuria NeonSamuria@***********.com
Subject: bioware and the adept
Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2000 17:02:54 -0800
O.K> so let me get this straight. so you take the bio index and subtract
it from the magic rating? or the essence? You still add three to the
essence to get bio index. Does that mean a Phys Add would get three
points for free or can go into the negative. What kind of ruling would
some of you do?




Neon Samuria

People see things as they are and ask Why,
I dream things that never where and say Why not.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------

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Message no. 8
From: Sebastian Wiers m0ng005e@*****.com
Subject: bioware and the adept
Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 00:58:18 -0600
: O.K> so let me get this straight. so you take the bio index and subtract
:it from the magic rating? or the essence? You still add three to the
:essence to get bio index. Does that mean a Phys Add would get three
:points for free or can go into the negative. What kind of ruling would
:some of you do?

M&M simply says you reduce Magic rating by total BI. So if you had a magic
of 5 (say from loosing a point, or getting some small amount of cyber) and
you got bioware implants with a BI of 2.4, your magic would go down to 2.6,
which rounds down to 2.

You do NOT add three to essence to get bio index. Bio index has NOTHING to
do with essence. You are thinking of essence index, which is used ONLY for
determining physiological health effects of bioware.

-Sebastian Wiers
Message no. 9
From: Lute, David dlute@********.com
Subject: bioware and the adept
Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 09:52:41 -0500
>M&M simply says you reduce Magic rating by total BI. So if you had
a magic
>of 5 (say from loosing a point, or getting some small amount of
cyber) and
>you got bioware implants with a BI of 2.4, your magic would go down
to 2.6,
>which rounds down to 2.
>
>You do NOT add three to essence to get bio index. Bio index has
NOTHING to
>do with essence. You are thinking of essence index, which is used
ONLY for
>determining physiological health effects of bioware.
>
>-Sebastian Wiers

Actually to find how exactly how much bioware you can put in you do
add 3 to your essence.
The max number of points you can stick in is 9 (ie essence of 6).
As to how this effects the
adept I wonder the same thing


DL
Message no. 10
From: Marc Renouf renouf@********.com
Subject: bioware and the adept
Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 10:09:26 -0500 (EST)
On Mon, 11 Dec 2000, Lute, David wrote:

> Actually to find how exactly how much bioware you can put in you do
> add 3 to your essence. The max number of points you can stick in is 9
> (ie essence of 6). As to how this effects the adept I wonder the same
> thing

Basically it's pretty simple - an adept can put in as much bioware
as anybody else; up to his Essence + 3. The problem is that even if he
has no cyberware, he'll be a mundane (i.e. no longer an adept) after he
puts in any more than 5 points of Bioware (as his *Magic* rating will have
dropped below 1, which rounds down to 0, which means he's no longer
magical).

Marc Renouf (ShadowRN GridSec - "Bad Cop" Division)

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Message no. 11
From: Lute, David dlute@********.com
Subject: bioware and the adept
Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 14:58:36 -0500
> Basically it's pretty simple - an adept can put in as much
bioware
>as anybody else; up to his Essence + 3. The problem is that even
if he
>has no cyberware, he'll be a mundane (i.e. no longer an adept)
after he
>puts in any more than 5 points of Bioware (as his *Magic* rating
will have
>dropped below 1, which rounds down to 0, which means he's no longer
>magical).

>Marc Renouf (ShadowRN GridSec - "Bad Cop" Division)


Why would they not be magical when the book says that a mage that has
bioware
still is a magician and has not lost his magic if bioware made his magic
rating
drop under 0?

I don't have the books or I would quote it.

DL
Message no. 12
From: Sebastian Wiers m0ng005e@*****.com
Subject: bioware and the adept
Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 17:11:11 -0600
> Actually to find how exactly how much bioware you can put in you do
:> add 3 to your essence. The max number of points you can stick in is 9
:> (ie essence of 6). As to how this effects the adept I wonder the same
:> thing
:
: Basically it's pretty simple - an adept can put in as much bioware
:as anybody else; up to his Essence + 3.

Having a low essecne doesn't afect how much cyber you CAN get, just how much
it will hurt you to get it. If you have an essence of .01 (or even a
NEGATIVE essence), you can get as much bioware as you want, up to the
maximum allowed to ANY person (9 BI). However, since your ESSENCE INDEX is
only 3.01, getting more than 3.01 BI worth of cyber will cause certain bad
effects that a person with higher essence (and hence a higher essence index)
would not suffer.

:The problem is that even if he
:has no cyberware, he'll be a mundane (i.e. no longer an adept) after he
:puts in any more than 5 points of Bioware (as his *Magic* rating will have
:dropped below 1, which rounds down to 0, which means he's no longer
:magical).

Bingo. Actually, he's not technically a mundane- if he gets the bioware
removed he might reduce his BI. That might allow him to use those magic
points again- in fact, if you get your BI down to 0, it would be like you
never had the bioware to begin with, and you'd have full use of your magic
again (barring loss form other causes).

-Sebastian Wiers / AKA Mongoose
Message no. 13
From: Sebastian Wiers m0ng005e@*****.com
Subject: bioware and the adept
Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 19:24:27 -0600
:Having a low essecne doesn't afect how much cyber you CAN get, just how
much
:it will hurt you to get it.

Um, that should be "does not affect how much BIOWARE you can get..."

Sorry.

-Sebastian
Message no. 14
From: GSW13 darklordsatin@*******.com
Subject: bioware and the adept
Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 22:48:38 -0500
> > Actually to find how exactly how much bioware you can put in you do
> > add 3 to your essence. The max number of points you can stick in is 9
> > (ie essence of 6). As to how this effects the adept I wonder the same
> > thing
>
> Basically it's pretty simple - an adept can put in as much bioware
> as anybody else; up to his Essence + 3. The problem is that even if he
> has no cyberware, he'll be a mundane (i.e. no longer an adept) after he
> puts in any more than 5 points of Bioware (as his *Magic* rating will have
> dropped below 1, which rounds down to 0, which means he's no longer
> magical).

A very important point is being missed here. Bioware does NOT lower your
magic rating. Bioware lowers your EFFECTIVE magic rating for MOST purposes.
This is kind of complicated so let me give an example.

Joe Mageboy has an essence of 5 and 1 point of bioware, this gives him a
magic rating of 5 that is effectively 4. If Joe Mageboy casts a spell with
force 5 he takes physical drain, this is an example of the effective magic
rating. However, if he casts levitate which moves things something or other
* magic rating meters, he uses his true magic rating.

Essentially any effect that refers to magic rating uses the true magic
rating where your effective magic rating determines your drain type, adept
power points, etc.

I hope I said that clearly (and yes it is really confusing).

/*----------------------------------------------------------------
GSW13, George, Mr. Peabody, DL (Darklord) Satin, The God of Nothing,
CybrWyrm, Prince of Non-Sequitors, Keeper of Osigwad, President: Society of
Non-Violent Anarchists for a better America, Co-Founder: Danorgeian
Preformational Party, Waxman, The Virus, Bard of Osigwad, etc.
----------------------------------------------------------------*/
Message no. 15
From: Gurth gurth@******.nl
Subject: bioware and the adept
Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2000 10:30:14 +0100
According to Lute, David, on Mon, 11 Dec 2000 the word on the street was...

> Why would they not be magical when the book says that a mage that has
> bioware still is a magician and has not lost his magic if bioware made
> his magic rating drop under 0?

You are right in that the character is still a magician. However, it would
be a magician who can't actually do much in the way of magic, because
although the _actual_ Magic rating is 6, the virtual Magic rating (and this
is the more important one when you've got bioware) is 0.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Bartitis -- Kei-erg!
-> NAGEE Editor * ShadowRN GridSec * Triangle Virtuoso <-
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Message no. 16
From: Sebastian Wiers m0ng005e@*****.com
Subject: bioware and the adept
Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2000 17:26:00 -0600
> Why would they not be magical when the book says that a mage that has
> bioware still is a magician and has not lost his magic if bioware made
> his magic rating drop under 0?

You are right in that the character is still a magician. However, it would
be a magician who can't actually do much in the way of magic, because
although the _actual_ Magic rating is 6, the virtual Magic rating (and this
is the more important one when you've got bioware) is 0.

Thats true for an adept, whose powers are limited in rating by thier
magic rating, but a regular magician could potentially still do a LOT. They
could use spell defense with no trouble (thier spell pool would be a bit
smaller, and range may depend on magic rating, but they could at least
defend themselves pretty well) and they could cast spells (taking physical
drain, and area efffect spells would be pointless). SR3 limits conjured
spirit force to magic x2, so they can CONJURE spirits, but they could banish
them, or enter a contest for control of them with another magician.

-Mongoose

Further Reading

If you enjoyed reading about bioware and the adept, you may also be interested in:

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