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Message no. 1
From: Michael Orion Jackson <orion@****.CC.UTEXAS.EDU>
Subject: Bioware and the Magically Active
Date: Wed, 13 Aug 1997 03:12:55 -0500
Basically, my house rules boil down to (I'm a GM usually, wishing he could
play more, so I guess my rules tend to favor the PCs a bit...):
Cyberware: causes magic loss from everyone, as normal.
Bioware (noncultured): causes magic loss from everyone, as normal.
Bioware (cultured): no magic loss to mages/shamans, magic loss to
physads.
Reasons:Cultured bioware is made from that person's genes/cellular
material. It is much more a "part of them" than noncultured bioware, and
miles more a part of them than cyberware. The way I see it, Magic loss
occurs when the body "loses tune" with the astral, an event that occurs
when the body is changed away from it's original form. See cybertech for
a quasi-official discussion of this (magical/astral template, etc.). this
also might explain why magic use does not typically occur until the
charcater reaches mid to late puberty (the younger a charcter is, the
faster their body is changing). So, cultured bioware , IMHO wouldn't
cause teh magician's astral template to deviate too much as it is so close
to them (I hope that made sense, it is 3 am... :) ). Ergo, no magic loss.
Physads, on the other hand, I see as having a MUCH higher body-template
requirement because their magic IS their body. Kinda like adding a
generic replacement part to a Nissan Sentra and to a Porsche 911. Same
part, but the Porsche is a high performance sports car that requires MUCH
closer tolerances so the performance is affected much more... yes, this
does strongly benefit mages/shamans. Every one of em got a cerebral
booster after I mentioned this ruling, as well as a host of other such
things. Note that ALL neural cyberware is considered to be cultured to
begin with, so it doesn't suffer from the increased price that, say,
enhanced articulation would. Which is OK, because the cyberware most
mages/shamans are interested in is neural to begin with... Does this
change game balance a little? yes, of course. But I felt not to badly as
most magicians don't have very high resources anyway... and bioware is the
exclusive domain of those who have LOTS and LOTS of nuyen. :) Night, all.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Michael Orion Jackson~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~TAMS Class of 1996/UT Class of 199?~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~~~~~~2112 Guadalupe, Rm. 409; Austin, Tx 78705 (The Goodall-Wooten)~~~~~~~
------------------<"Love kills the demon."~Mickey
Knox>--------------------
I agree. It seems to have killed most of mine, or at least cowed them into
temporary submission. For the first time in my life I feel a reason to go
forward, other than inertia. Now my only worry is that I'll fuck it up...
Message no. 2
From: Justin Pinnow <vanyel@*******.NET>
Subject: Re: Bioware and the Magically Active
Date: Wed, 13 Aug 1997 08:02:29 -0400
> From: Michael Orion Jackson <orion@****.CC.UTEXAS.EDU>
> Date: Wednesday, August 13, 1997 4:12 AM

> Basically, my house rules boil down to (I'm a GM usually, wishing he
could
> play more, so I guess my rules tend to favor the PCs a bit...):
> Cyberware: causes magic loss from everyone, as normal.
> Bioware (noncultured): causes magic loss from everyone, as
normal.
> Bioware (cultured): no magic loss to mages/shamans, magic loss to
> physads

<Snip>

My house rules are that Bioware (Cultured and standard) and Cyberwear cause
magic loss, while only Cyberwear causes essence loss. Now, in my campaign,
I have created a new "grade" of bioware called "personalized bioware".
Basically, it's cultured bioware taken one step further. The end result is
no magic loss or body index accrued, several weeks of waiting and a few
doctor's visits, installation of the bioware, and it costs 10x the list
price for exactly the same effect (i.e. a personalized suprathyroid gland
does the same thing as a regular suprathyroid gland, etc.). Yes, I still
keep the same multiplyer even if the original list price is for cultured
bioware (I am still debating this, however).

> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Michael Orion
Jackson~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Justin :)
Message no. 3
From: Mike Buckalew <mike_buckalew@******.COM>
Subject: Re: Bioware and the Magically Active
Date: Wed, 13 Aug 1997 17:58:13 -0700
>Basically, my house rules boil down to (I'm a GM usually, wishing he could
>play more, so I guess my rules tend to favor the PCs a bit...):

A side note on the Bioware Causes Essence Loss vs Bioware Causes Magic
Loss: my FASA supplied character (Aristotle Valentin, Elf Physad
Extraordinare, Team Leader, and General Bastard) in the official FASA A
Drive In the Country Shadowrun Tournament was bioware-enhanced, with a
Body Rating that only affected his magic rating, _not_ his essence.
Interesting, hmmm.


Buck (Mike Buckalew)
Test Manager, FileMaker Pro
Email: buck@******.com

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Message no. 4
From: Jaymz <justin@******.NET>
Subject: Re: Bioware and the Magically Active
Date: Wed, 13 Aug 1997 21:45:40 -0500
At 05:58 PM 8/13/97 -0700, you wrote:
#>Basically, my house rules boil down to (I'm a GM usually, wishing he could
#>play more, so I guess my rules tend to favor the PCs a bit...):
#
#A side note on the Bioware Causes Essence Loss vs Bioware Causes Magic
#Loss: my FASA supplied character (Aristotle Valentin, Elf Physad
#Extraordinare, Team Leader, and General Bastard) in the official FASA A
#Drive In the Country Shadowrun Tournament was bioware-enhanced, with a
#Body Rating that only affected his magic rating, _not_ his essence.
#Interesting, hmmm.

do you still have a copy of this char?
I'd be interested in the particulars
--
/--justin@****.mcp.com----------------------justin@******.net--\
|Justin Bell NIC:JB3084| Time and rules are changing. |
|Simon & Schuster | Attention span is quickening. |
|Programmer | Welcome to the Information Age. |
\------------ http://www.mcp.com/people/justin/ ---------------/
Message no. 5
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: Bioware and the Magically Active
Date: Thu, 14 Aug 1997 12:24:28 +0100
Mike Buckalew said on 17:58/13 Aug 97...

> A side note on the Bioware Causes Essence Loss vs Bioware Causes Magic
> Loss: my FASA supplied character (Aristotle Valentin, Elf Physad
> Extraordinare, Team Leader, and General Bastard) in the official FASA A
> Drive In the Country Shadowrun Tournament was bioware-enhanced, with a
> Body Rating that only affected his magic rating, _not_ his essence.
> Interesting, hmmm.

Either FASA now also subscribes to that standpoint, or someone who does
made the character and whoever inspected the characters didn't notice :)

Perhaps a ruling to this extent will appear in the Sourcebook Updates in
SR3 *gets hopes up*

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
...who hates heatwaves
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

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Message no. 6
From: Tobias Berghoff <Zixx@*****.TEUTO.DE>
Subject: Re: Bioware and the Magically Active
Date: Fri, 15 Aug 1997 01:48:00 GMT
on 13.08.97 orion@****.CC.UTEXAS.EDU wrote:

o> Basically, my house rules boil down to (I'm a GM usually, wishing he could
o> play more, so I guess my rules tend to favor the PCs a bit...):
o> Cyberware: causes magic loss from everyone, as normal.
o> Bioware (noncultured): causes magic loss from everyone, as normal.
o> Bioware (cultured): no magic loss to mages/shamans, magic loss to
o> physads.

Makes the physad even more unattractive. Don't like it. Turn it around,
than it workes. Mages/shamans are very powerful in SR, they don't need any
additional boosting. The physad *really* needs it.

Tobias
## CrossPoint v3.1 ##
Message no. 7
From: "MARTIN E. GOTTHARD" <s457033@*******.GU.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: Bioware and the Magically Active
Date: Sun, 17 Aug 1997 08:58:04 +1000
> o> Basically, my house rules boil down to (I'm a GM usually, wishing he could
> o> play more, so I guess my rules tend to favor the PCs a bit...):
> o> Cyberware: causes magic loss from everyone, as normal.
> o> Bioware (noncultured): causes magic loss from everyone, as normal.
> o> Bioware (cultured): no magic loss to mages/shamans, magic loss to
> o> physads.
>
> Makes the physad even more unattractive. Don't like it. Turn it around,
> than it workes. Mages/shamans are very powerful in SR, they don't need any
> additional boosting. The physad *really* needs it.
>

I agree. It also makes sense in that a full mage's body is far more
sensitive towards intrusion. Because a physical adepts magic is based
around his body anyway, he would presumably assimilate the bioware better.

Marty
Message no. 8
From: Justin Pinnow <vanyel@*******.NET>
Subject: Re: Bioware and the Magically Active
Date: Sat, 16 Aug 1997 19:29:15 -0400
> From: MARTIN E. GOTTHARD <s457033@*******.GU.EDU.AU>
> Date: Saturday, August 16, 1997 6:58 PM

<Snip>

> I agree. It also makes sense in that a full mage's body is far more
> sensitive towards intrusion. Because a physical adepts magic is based
> around his body anyway, he would presumably assimilate the bioware
better.

First of all, let's not continue on this PhysAds suck/rule thread. It gets
really old really fast. Second, your theory could go either way. Having
magic closely tied to the body could either increase or decrease the magic
loss from implants. It could be justified either way.

> Marty
Message no. 9
From: George Metz <W0lfstar@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Bioware and the Magically Active
Date: Sun, 17 Aug 1997 04:45:12 -0400
In a message dated 97-08-16 18:58:25 EDT, you write:

> > Makes the physad even more unattractive. Don't like it. Turn it around,
> > than it workes. Mages/shamans are very powerful in SR, they don't need
any
> > additional boosting. The physad *really* needs it.
> >
>
> I agree. It also makes sense in that a full mage's body is far more
> sensitive towards intrusion. Because a physical adepts magic is based
> around his body anyway, he would presumably assimilate the bioware better.

While this DOES make the physads more unattractive, your argument can also
be applied in reverse. If a physad's magic is centered around and in his
body, it would be more sensitive to disruption such as bioware.

Wolfstar
Message no. 10
From: "Paul K. Janetzke" <paul585@******.EMAIL.NET>
Subject: Bioware and the Magically Active
Date: Sun, 17 Aug 1997 03:53:19 CDT
Well this conversation about having bioware affect or not affect the MR of a
mage or adept is academic. I agree that bioware should have less of an impact
on magically active people, but having it affect one group different than
another unbalances the game. If you think about it, an adept with a weapon
focus 6, maxed AC, and points dropped into AC from MR is just as bad-@** as
any mage. Sure the mage can reach-out and touch at a distance, as long as he
can see the target, but the adept can still attack in total darkness, with
some modifiers. As a house rule, I subtract 1/2 of the BI from all magically
active PCs and NPCs. It seems to maintain balance, and give players some
ability to improve beyond what karma can do.
Message no. 11
From: Tobias Berghoff <Zixx@*****.TEUTO.DE>
Subject: Re: Bioware and the Magically Active
Date: Tue, 19 Aug 1997 19:32:00 GMT
on 14.08.97 gurth@******.NL wrote:

g> > A side note on the Bioware Causes Essence Loss vs Bioware Causes Magic
g> > Loss: my FASA supplied character (Aristotle Valentin, Elf Physad
g> > Extraordinare, Team Leader, and General Bastard) in the official FASA A
g> > Drive In the Country Shadowrun Tournament was bioware-enhanced, with a
g> > Body Rating that only affected his magic rating, _not_ his essence.
g> > Interesting, hmmm.
g>
g> Either FASA now also subscribes to that standpoint, or someone who does
g> made the character and whoever inspected the characters didn't notice :)

Ermmm...maybe it's different in the German ST version, but doen't bioware
only change the bodyindex?

Tobias <being-confused>
## CrossPoint v3.1 ##
Message no. 12
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: Bioware and the Magically Active
Date: Thu, 21 Aug 1997 12:41:08 +0100
Tobias Berghoff said on 19:32/19 Aug 97...

> Ermmm...maybe it's different in the German ST version, but doen't bioware
> only change the bodyindex?

Bioware only adds to the Body Index for mundanes; for magicians, there is
an Essence loss as well, exactly equal to the Body Index.

However, a very common house rule is to figure the Magic Rating _as_if_
bioware costs Essence, without actually reducing Essence itself.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Looking over the edge...
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

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Message no. 13
From: George Metz <W0lfstar@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Bioware and the Magically Active
Date: Thu, 21 Aug 1997 07:31:58 -0400
In a message dated 97-08-21 05:46:08 EDT, you write:

> Ermmm...maybe it's different in the German ST version, but doen't bioware
> only change the bodyindex?

You're not confused. It causes Essence(and therefore Magic) loss to any
magically active characters, as well as Body Index. Page 5, bottom right hand
side. At least, in the American version.

Wolfstar

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