Logs for ShadowRN and Associated Mailing Lists

From:	l.andrenelli@*.it l.andrenelli@*.it
Subject:	Bioware - Urgent!
Date:	Mon, 28 Jun 1999 14:23:55 +0200

Message no. 1 Shadowtech, pag.6:
"Treat bioware augmentations as base attributes in all cases,
except when calculating for the bioware limit."

Does it mean that bioware-enhanced attributes must remain under
racial limits ? (ie. a STR 6 street-sam cannot have STR 10 getting
muscle augmentation 4 ?)

BitJack

From:	Cybertroll cybertroll@******.crosswinds.net
Subject:	Bioware - Urgent!
Date:	Mon, 28 Jun 1999 15:28:03 +0300

Message no. 2 l.andrenelli@***.it wrote:
>
> Shadowtech, pag.6:
> "Treat bioware augmentations as base attributes in all cases,
> except when calculating for the bioware limit."
>
> Does it mean that bioware-enhanced attributes must remain under
> racial limits ? (ie. a STR 6 street-sam cannot have STR 10 getting
> muscle augmentation 4 ?)
>
> BitJack

No. It means that augmenting ur body attribute doesn't raise ur body
index.
Body index still remains equal to ur natural body.

Cybertroll

--
E-Mail : cybertroll@********.gr
ICQ# : 7483400 but u have to beg to get my authorization!! :-)))
Homepage: http://www.crosswinds.net/athens/~cybertroll - WOA Photos!!
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Do u really want to talk to me?? Come to #tavern in Othernet!
U'll find the servers in http://www.othernet.org or in
http://tavern.home.pages.de - the #tavern Homepage by Soth

From:	l.andrenelli@*.it l.andrenelli@*.it
Subject:	Bioware - Urgent!
Date:	Mon, 28 Jun 1999 14:50:11 +0200

Message no. 3 Date sent: Mon, 28 Jun 1999 15:28:03 +0300
From: Cybertroll <cybertroll@******.crosswinds.net>
To: shadowrn@*********.org
Subject: Re: Bioware - Urgent!
Send reply to: shadowrn@*********.org

> l.andrenelli@***.it wrote:
> >
> > Shadowtech, pag.6:
> > "Treat bioware augmentations as base attributes in all cases,
> > except when calculating for the bioware limit."
> >
> > Does it mean that bioware-enhanced attributes must remain under
> > racial limits ? (ie. a STR 6 street-sam cannot have STR 10 getting
> > muscle augmentation 4 ?)
> >
> > BitJack
>
> No. It means that augmenting ur body attribute doesn't raise ur body
> index.
> Body index still remains equal to ur natural body.
>
> Cybertroll
>
Ok, that's clear, but u can override ur racial limits by using bioware
?

Bitjack

From:	Cybertroll cybertroll@******.crosswinds.net
Subject:	Bioware - Urgent!
Date:	Mon, 28 Jun 1999 16:30:28 +0300

Message no. 4 > > No. It means that augmenting ur body attribute doesn't raise ur body
> > index.
> > Body index still remains equal to ur natural body.
> >
> > Cybertroll
> >
> Ok, that's clear, but u can override ur racial limits by using bioware
> ?
>
> Bitjack

Sure u can. The only thing that u can't overide in the Body Index for
the Bioware limit

Cybertroll

--
E-Mail : cybertroll@********.gr
ICQ# : 7483400 but u have to beg to get my authorization!! :-)))
Homepage: http://www.crosswinds.net/athens/~cybertroll - WOA Photos!!
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Do u really want to talk to me?? Come to #tavern in Othernet!
U'll find the servers in http://www.othernet.org or in
http://tavern.home.pages.de - the #tavern Homepage by Soth

From:	Kelson kelson13@*******.com
Subject:	Bioware - Urgent!
Date:	Mon, 28 Jun 1999 06:35:28 -0700

Message no. 5 On Mon, 28 Jun 1999 15:28:03 Cybertroll wrote:

>l.andrenelli@***.it wrote:

>> Shadowtech, pag.6:
>> "Treat bioware augmentations as base attributes in all cases,
>> except when calculating for the bioware limit."

>> Does it mean that bioware-enhanced attributes must remain under
>> racial limits ? (ie. a STR 6 street-sam cannot have STR 10 getting
>> muscle augmentation 4 ?)

>> BitJack

>No. It means that augmenting ur body attribute doesn't raise ur body
>index.
>Body index still remains equal to ur natural body.

>Cybertroll

Actually, that's not correct. What it REALLY means is that the value of any attribute
enhancements from bioware are treated the same as if they were the base/unmodified
attribute(s) except when determining how much of a Body Index you can handle. Some tests
are based upon your base attribute (i.e. not enhanced by cyber, etc.). Bioware integrates
so well into your system that you can use the attribute enhancements as if they were
natural.

Body Index is the way of determining how much bioware you have in your body total. If you
Body Index gets too high (equal to or greater than you unaugmented Body attribute, I
believe) your bioware can start to fail. Note that you only use the unaugmented Body
attribute to determine what the maximum Body Index you can handle is. (This is the
exception noted in the quote you made above.) For all other tests, use the enhanced
attribute value as if it were the base/unaugmented value.

So, say you had a Strength of 3 and got a nifty piece of Bioware that increased your
Strength by 2. Say that Bioware has a Body Index rating of 1.0 and your base Body
attribute is a 4.

Once you have the bioware installed, your Strength is now a 3(5). The 3 is your
base/unaugmented rating and the 5 is your enhanced/augmented rating. Normally, when
making a test that requires you to use only your base Strength, you would only roll 3
dice. However, since you used Bioware to augment your Strength attribute, you get to roll
5 dice becuase you treat your augmented Strength rating as if it were an unaugmented
rating.

Note that your Body Index would now be 1.0 (plus the Body Index rating of any other
Bioware) and you start having problems when you get somewhere around your base Body
attribute (which is a 4). Note that you can't increase how much Body Index you can handle
by getting bioware that augments your Body. This is the only exception to using augmented
attribute ratings in place of unaugmented ones. In order to increase how bioware you can
handle, you'll have to improve your Body attribute naturally. You'll have to consult the
bioware rules to determine just where the trouble begins and things start to shut
down/malfunction due to a high Body Index because I don't recall off the top of my head.

Justin

--== Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ ==--
Share what you know. Learn what you don't.

From:	Mongoose m0ng005e@*********.com
Subject:	Bioware - Urgent!
Date:	Mon, 28 Jun 1999 14:36:45 -0500

Message no. 6 http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Chamber/5072/srmnvbr.htm
-----Original Message-----
From: Kelson <kelson13@*******.com>
To: shadowrn@*********.org <shadowrn@*********.org>
Date: Monday, June 28, 1999 8:37 AM
Subject: Re: Bioware - Urgent!

:On Mon, 28 Jun 1999 15:28:03 Cybertroll wrote:
:
:>l.andrenelli@***.it wrote:
:
:>> Shadowtech, pag.6:
:>> "Treat bioware augmentations as base attributes in all cases,
:>> except when calculating for the bioware limit."
:
:>> Does it mean that bioware-enhanced attributes must remain under
:>> racial limits ? (ie. a STR 6 street-sam cannot have STR 10 getting
:>> muscle augmentation 4 ?)

I think its a hangon text from SR1- in SR1, that may hve been an
inmportant distiction (IIRC, augmented attributes could not be raised with
karma).
In SR2, it rarely mattered, except for body, where un-augmented body is
used in healing and some other tests. And of course, as it notes, totally
unaugmented body is what is compared to body index in all cases.
In SR3, its a BIG matter, as it affects the cost of skills, but bioware
is getting a re-do in MaM anyhow.

:>No. It means that augmenting ur body attribute doesn't raise ur body
:>index.
:>Body index still remains equal to ur natural body.

Body index= the total index of all bioware implants (and maybe some from
poorly removed implants). This CAN exceede body- the effect doing so has is
described on p.6, 4rth paragraph- it rasies the TN for all body tests
(including dmage resistance). It an easy point to miss- the paragraph
missuses the term Body Index (how can you "exceed body index" if its a
number that increases as you get mor bioware), and the first half of the
last sentance is pointless (unaugmented body is always higher than 0).

Mongoose

From:	Ereskanti@*.com Ereskanti@*.com
Subject:	Bioware - Urgent!
Date:	Mon, 28 Jun 1999 23:16:41 EDT

Message no. 7 In a message dated 6/28/1999 7:24:05 AM US Eastern Standard Time,
l.andrenelli@***.it writes:

> "Treat bioware augmentations as base attributes in all cases,
> except when calculating for the bioware limit."
>
> Does it mean that bioware-enhanced attributes must remain under
> racial limits ? (ie. a STR 6 street-sam cannot have STR 10 getting
> muscle augmentation 4 ?)

No, it means that when you go to alter (improve) an attribute (say, with
Karma), you have to pay the cost as if the attribute were at the increased
level, and not the "natural" level.

-K

From:	Ereskanti@*.com Ereskanti@*.com
Subject:	Bioware - Urgent!
Date:	Mon, 28 Jun 1999 23:24:00 EDT

Message no. 8 In a message dated 6/28/1999 7:50:24 AM US Eastern Standard Time,
l.andrenelli@***.it writes:

> Ok, that's clear, but u can override ur racial limits by using bioware
> ?

Sort of yes. Can the augmentations take you beyond "Natural Limits", sure.
That's kind of the point of augmentations of both cyber and bio types.
Please take note that when considering things like "food intake" (important
for stuff like Symbiotes especially) and "biomass/body weight", cyber/bioware
can be extremely annoying...

-K

From:	Gurth gurth@******.nl
Subject:	Bioware - Urgent!
Date:	Tue, 29 Jun 1999 11:59:52 +0200

Message no. 9 According to l.andrenelli@***.it, at 14:23 on 28 Jun 99, the word on
the street was...

> Shadowtech, pag.6:
> "Treat bioware augmentations as base attributes in all cases,
> except when calculating for the bioware limit."
>
> Does it mean that bioware-enhanced attributes must remain under
> racial limits ? (ie. a STR 6 street-sam cannot have STR 10 getting
> muscle augmentation 4 ?)

It means that when you want to raise the attribute, you pay Karma for the
cost of the rating including bioware, not for the unmodified rating. So,
raising Strength 4(5) to 5(6) will cost 12 Good Karma, not 10. IMHO the
rules for exceeding the racial limit don't apply, but these hadn't been
invented yet when Shadowtech was written.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
E-mails uit het verleden bieden geen garantie voor de toekomst.
-> ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
->The Plastic Warriors Page: http://shadowrun.html.com/plasticwarriors/<-
-> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-

GC3.1: GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+
PE Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998

From:	Mongoose m0ng005e@*********.com
Subject:	Bioware - Urgent!
Date:	Tue, 29 Jun 1999 02:18:49 -0500

Message no. 10 :> "Treat bioware augmentations as base attributes in all cases,
:> except when calculating for the bioware limit."
:>
:> Does it mean that bioware-enhanced attributes must remain under
:> racial limits ? (ie. a STR 6 street-sam cannot have STR 10 getting
:> muscle augmentation 4 ?)
:
:No, it means that when you go to alter (improve) an attribute (say, with
:Karma), you have to pay the cost as if the attribute were at the increased
:level, and not the "natural" level.
:
:-K

Wouldn't that mean, in some cases, that having bioware STOPPED you from
using karma to raise an attribute? If a elf had a STR of 5 and added 4 with
bio (say muscle aug 3 and a suprathyroid, like I had), there would be no way
for them to further raise STR with karma if his natural STR was considered
as 9. This applies in both sr2 and sr3...

Mongoose

Mailing List Logs for

Further Reading

Disclaimer