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Mailing List Logs for ShadowRN

Message no. 1
From: tzeentch666@*********.net (Tzeentch)
Subject: Black IC (was Re: Hacking a Smartlink in SR4)
Date: Mon, 3 Oct 2005 18:45:05 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Ray Macey" <raymacey@*****.com>
>Black IC can only kill people that are already using hot sim to
>deliberately push the simsense feed to BTL like levels beyond normal
>human limits.

-- Which itself doesn't make much sense if you stop to think about it. Even a BTL system
has to have some sort of cutoff short of "kill user." In any case it's just a
bit of data being translated by your simsense unit, it's not blasting some sort of wierd
simsense signal into your brain.

>It doesn't take much tweaking of such a feed to kill
>someone.

-- Based on what, simstim as presented in William Gibsons novels?
-- I suppose a signal could trigger a heart attack or somesuch, but simsense overload as
presented in cyberpunk fiction has been of the "fry your brain" variety rather
than triggering a physiological response (which is what the RAS overrides largely prevent
anyways).

>If they are using a plain old cold sim, then black IC only
>does stun damage. It also requires someone to be using a trode rig or
>datajack letting the signal go straight to their brain

-- Which is patently ridiculous. But without Black IC then there's not a huge amount of
immediate danger for deckers, especially in the Shadowrun world where it's easy to run to
places that noone can follow or rapidly relocate your jackpoint.

-- Trying to explain Black IC is like trying to figure out how Sparky IC can cause
electrical overloads in your deck. It's silly, but part of the cyberpunk literature so
what can you do?

BRING BACK SPARKY IC! >:)
Message no. 2
From: raymacey@*****.com (Ray Macey)
Subject: Black IC (was Re: Hacking a Smartlink in SR4)
Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2005 08:51:03 +1000
On 10/4/05, Tzeentch <tzeentch666@*********.net> wrote:
> -- Which itself doesn't make much sense if you stop to think about it. Even a BTL
system
> has to have some sort of cutoff short of "kill user."

No it doesn't. The reason a typical BTL feed doesn't kill is because
the stream wasn't designed that way. I can easily imagine that a
badly coded stream could kill someone, so a stream designed to
deliberately kill them wouldn't be much different.

> In any case it's just a bit of data being
> translated by your simsense unit, it's not blasting some sort of wierd simsense
signal
> into your brain.

Isn't blasting weird simsense signals in to your brain the very
definition of a BTL?

> -- Trying to explain Black IC is like trying to figure out how Sparky IC can cause
electrical
> overloads in your deck. It's silly, but part of the cyberpunk literature so what can
you do?

Nah, I have no trouble explaining Black IC given the presumptions
above on hot BTL works. Of course it just shifts the mystery to the
nature of simsense/BTL feeds instead :)

--
http://cyron.id.au
Message no. 3
From: tzeentch666@*********.net (Tzeentch)
Subject: Black IC (was Re: Hacking a Smartlink in SR4)
Date: Mon, 3 Oct 2005 19:33:34 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Ray Macey" <raymacey@*****.com>
>The reason a typical BTL feed doesn't kill is because
>the stream wasn't designed that way. I can easily imagine that a
>badly coded stream could kill someone, so a stream designed to
>deliberately kill them wouldn't be much different.

-- Umm. How exactly. Malformed code packets that generate bogitron particles in your
brain?

> In any case it's just a bit of data being
> translated by your simsense unit, it's not blasting some sort of wierd simsense
signal
> into your brain.

Isn't blasting weird simsense signals in to your brain the very
definition of a BTL?

-- ?! It's not a radiofrequency wave entering your head. It's a data packet that is being
decoded and your simsense translator is changing that into electrochemical impulses your
brain can understand as scent, pain, and so on. It's not bogitron waves that can
superstimulate your brain until it explodes or something.

>Nah, I have no trouble explaining Black IC given the presumptions
>above on hot BTL works. Of course it just shifts the mystery to the
>nature of simsense/BTL feeds instead :)

-- They generate bogitron waves that interact with the soliton gravity waves generated by
synaptic activity, creating a electromagnetic flux reaction that simulates physical
sensation ... and it can blow up your brain.
Message no. 4
From: raymacey@*****.com (Ray Macey)
Subject: Black IC (was Re: Hacking a Smartlink in SR4)
Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2005 10:01:58 +1000
On 10/4/05, Tzeentch <tzeentch666@*********.net> wrote:
>
> -- Umm. How exactly. Malformed code packets that generate bogitron particles in your
> brain?

Why does it need to be anything more than malformed or overly loud
signals? Send the brain something it's not equipped to understand at
a strength it's not equipped to handle. I don't know how accurate it
is, but an analogy would be playing music loud enough to burst the ear
drums, or a light bright enough to blind the person. If you can issue
emotions and the like, then you can lower and raise blood pressure,
heart rate etc, even if indirectly. I don't have a problem with
maliscious packets hurting or killing you simply because they are
telling your body/brain to do things it can't do or that are
detrimental to it.

> -- ?! It's not a radiofrequency wave entering your head. It's a data packet that is
being
> decoded and your simsense translator is changing that into electrochemical impulses
> your brain can understand as scent, pain, and so on. It's not bogitron waves that can
> superstimulate your brain until it explodes or something.

So what happens if you send scent signals to your eyes? Simsense can
induce moods, so how about inducing a super high buzz, or a low so low
it's not physically possible to experience it normally?

I don't have any problem imagine those being the general kind of
techniques used to damage someones brain

> -- They generate bogitron waves that interact with the soliton gravity waves
generated by
> synaptic activity, creating a electromagnetic flux reaction that simulates physical
> sensation ... and it can blow up your brain.

Are we going to have a meaningful discussion, or are you going to keep
on jumping to conclusions and paying me out before giving me the
chance to explain?

--
http://cyron.id.au
Message no. 5
From: tzeentch666@*********.net (Tzeentch)
Subject: Black IC (was Re: Hacking a Smartlink in SR4)
Date: Mon, 3 Oct 2005 20:44:25 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Ray Macey" <raymacey@*****.com>
> -- Umm. How exactly. Malformed code packets that generate bogitron particles in your
> brain?
>Why does it need to be anything more than malformed or overly loud
>signals?

-- I don't understand what you mean. Simsense is just digital data. "Loud data"
or something?
-- I can understand the intepretive device being set or modified to deliver an overload of
stimuli as a result of the data (instead of stimulating the release of X endorpins it
stimulates X^2). But it seems a bit odd that there are not even the most basic
"fuses" in place with regards to low-intensity devices (hence dumpshock from
trodes).

>So what happens if you send scent signals to your eyes?

-- Synesthesia? It's not particularly deadly from what I understand. Smoking pot can
supposedly cause it temporarily. Disorienting I imagine.

>Are we going to have a meaningful discussion, or are you going to keep
>on jumping to conclusions and paying me out before giving me the
>chance to explain?

-- <shrug> No need to overract, I was attacking the concept of Black IC biofeedback
and not you.
-- From a biological standpoint there's absolutely no advantage to using a direct neural
connection in the first place. It wouldn't let you operate much faster then you already
can (and would certainly be a lot "noisier"). The biofeedback stuff and the need
for neural connections was a literary device (transcending the flesh by projecting
yourself into the machine, your mind exceeds the limits of the body).

Further Reading

If you enjoyed reading about Black IC (was Re: Hacking a Smartlink in SR4), you may also be interested in:

Disclaimer

These messages were posted a long time ago on a mailing list far, far away. The copyright to their contents probably lies with the original authors of the individual messages, but since they were published in an electronic forum that anyone could subscribe to, and the logs were available to subscribers and most likely non-subscribers as well, it's felt that re-publishing them here is a kind of public service.

Thwap!