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Message no. 1
From: Marty <s457033@*******.GU.EDU.AU>
Subject: Blood Elves.
Date: Tue, 15 Oct 1996 11:00:50 +1000
> > Now, It's been suggested that possibly once the mana levels rise high
> > enough, blood elves will grow their thorns...
>
> I don't know that this sort of thing is something that will simply
> manifest..You see..I am not sure which SR elves you are talking about in the
> first place..You see that implanting of thorns was a thing that was done
> willingly with the addition of some blood magic these implanted thorns were
> made to grow through the skin of these psycho elves..This whole deal was done
> in order to keep the Horrors from being able to feed off of their pain and
> suffering as the Horrors had not caused it is all a little convoluted..At
> any rate..Perhaps the blood elves you have heard of are simply descended from
> thes disturbed elves..But I doubt they will simply manifest thorns..
>
Read some of the fiction, and all of the sourcebooks... from what I can
gather, Aithne Oak-Forest has a painting of the Queen of the Blood Elves,
and one of the immortal elf posters in the Aztlan sourcebook IS that queen.
Message no. 2
From: Loki <loki@*******.COM>
Subject: Re: Blood Elves.
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 11:01:16 -0700
> Read some of the fiction, and all of the sourcebooks... from what I can
> gather, Aithne Oak-Forest has a painting of the Queen of the Blood Elves,
> and one of the immortal elf posters in the Aztlan sourcebook IS that
queen.

The Tir Tairngire sourcebook refers to Jenna N'Faira <sp?> as having a
portrait of herslef with thorns. In the Worlds Without End novel, Aina also
has a painting of blood elves, and they reveal that Alachia, queen of Tir
Na n'Og (posts under the name of Lady of the Court), was the queen of Blood
Wood in E/D.

@>-,--'--- Loki

CLARKE'S THIRD LAW:
Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.

*********************************************
Poisoned Elves
http://www.netzone.com/~loki/
*********************************************
Message no. 3
From: Max Rible <cheshire@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: Blood Elves.
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 14:05:39 -0800
At 11:01 10/16/96 -0700, Loki wrote:
>> Read some of the fiction, and all of the sourcebooks... from what I can
>> gather, Aithne Oak-Forest has a painting of the Queen of the Blood Elves,
>> and one of the immortal elf posters in the Aztlan sourcebook IS that queen.

>The Tir Tairngire sourcebook refers to Jenna N'Faira <sp?> as having a
>portrait of herslef with thorns. In the Worlds Without End novel, Aina also
>has a painting of blood elves, and they reveal that Alachia, queen of Tir
>Na n'Og (posts under the name of Lady of the Court), was the queen of Blood
>Wood in E/D.

I don't think Alachia is posting in the Aztlan sourcebook, unless she's
Hecate. Lady of the Court is Brane Deigh, who is immortal, but is still quite
young (a spike baby at the eldest). Brane Deigh has joined the ranks of the
immortals because of the rituals antedating the Blood Wood for selecting an
elven queen. (They're discussed in Denizens of Earthdawn, Volume 1.)
--
%%% Max Rible %%% cheshire@*****.com %%% http://www.amurgsval.org/~cheshire %%%
%%% "Before enlightenment: sharpen claws, catch mice. %%%
%%% After enlightenment: sharpen claws, catch mice." - me %%%
Message no. 4
From: Steven Ratkovich <chaos@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: Blood Elves.
Date: Thu, 17 Oct 1996 01:41:06 -0500
>I don't think Alachia is posting in the Aztlan sourcebook, unless she's
>Hecate. Lady of the Court is Brane Deigh, who is immortal, but is still quite
>young (a spike baby at the eldest). Brane Deigh has joined the ranks of the
>immortals because of the rituals antedating the Blood Wood for selecting an
>elven queen. (They're discussed in Denizens of Earthdawn, Volume 1.)
>
Hecate is, I believe, a Greater Feathered Serpent. So far, that makes
everyone of the posters a dragon or an immortal elf, except for two
Unknowns: Usmondo (sp??) and Jungle Cat.

Jungle Cat is preumably one of the leaders of Amazonia, but nothing else is
known about him. Is he a were-creature? The name suggests such a thing,
but who knows. And Is he immortal, as the majority of the other "mystery
posters" are?

As for Usmondo, I remember hearing something about him, but can't remember
it off hand... Who is he though?

_Bull-the-wondering-decker-turned-GM
Message no. 5
From: GRANITE <granite@**.NET>
Subject: Re: Blood Elves.
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 23:36:36 -0700
Marty wrote:
> Read some of the fiction, and all of the sourcebooks... from what I can
> gather, Aithne Oak-Forest has a painting of the Queen of the Blood Elves,
> and one of the immortal elf posters in the Aztlan sourcebook IS that queen.

Right..And?? Thorns can be removed..As I recall the elves of Bloodwood
chose not to remove their thorns even though the scourge was over..Due to
some political thingy or some such..This doesn't mean all of a sudden
some poor elven sot will all of a sudden sprout thorns..However, as blood
magic becomes easier to perform I am sure some psycho drek headed elves
will choose to have the silly things magically implanted..To show their
devotion or some such..
--
-------------------------------GRANITE
=================================================================
Lord, Grant Me The Serinity To Accept The Things I Cannot Change,
The Courage To Change The Things I Can,
And The Wisdom To Hide The Bodies Of Those People I Had To Kill
Because They Pissed Me Off.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ShadowRunner's Serinity Prayer
Message no. 6
From: "Bryan D. Jones" <bdj@***.NET>
Subject: Re: Blood Elves.
Date: Thu, 17 Oct 1996 07:42:50 -0700
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Usmondo is another elf I believe. The one from "downunder". I could be wrong.


--
Bryan D. Jones bdj@***.net
Network Administrator http://www.cei.net/~bdj
Timex Products, Inc.

----------
From: Steven Ratkovich[SMTP:chaos@*****.COM]
Sent: Wednesday, October 16, 1996 11:41 PM
To: SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET
Subject: Re: Blood Elves.

>I don't think Alachia is posting in the Aztlan sourcebook, unless she's
>Hecate. Lady of the Court is Brane Deigh, who is immortal, but is still quite
>young (a spike baby at the eldest). Brane Deigh has joined the ranks of the
>immortals because of the rituals antedating the Blood Wood for selecting an
>elven queen. (They're discussed in Denizens of Earthdawn, Volume 1.)
>
Hecate is, I believe, a Greater Feathered Serpent. So far, that makes
everyone of the posters a dragon or an immortal elf, except for two
Unknowns: Usmondo (sp??) and Jungle Cat.

Jungle Cat is preumably one of the leaders of Amazonia, but nothing else is
known about him. Is he a were-creature? The name suggests such a thing,
but who knows. And Is he immortal, as the majority of the other "mystery
posters" are?

As for Usmondo, I remember hearing something about him, but can't remember
it off hand... Who is he though?

_Bull-the-wondering-decker-turned-GM



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Message no. 7
From: "Terry L. Amburgey" <xanth@********.UKY.EDU>
Subject: Re: Blood Elves.
Date: Thu, 17 Oct 1996 09:15:33 -0400
At 07:42 AM 10/17/96 -0700, you wrote:
[snip]
>_Bull-the-wondering-decker-turned-GM
>
>
>
>Attachment Converted: C:\EUDORA\ReBloodE.

PLEASE quit sending attached documents to the list !!
Terry

Terry L. Amburgey
Associate Professor of Management
College of Business and Economics
University of Kentucky
Lexington, KY 40506-0034
Phone: 606-257-7726
Fax: 606-257-3577
Message no. 8
From: Marty <s457033@*******.GU.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: Blood Elves.
Date: Thu, 17 Oct 1996 23:50:20 +1000
This message is in MIME format. The first part should be readable text,
while the remaining parts are likely unreadable without MIME-aware tools.
Send mail to mime@*********.cac.washington.edu for more info.

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> Usmondo is another elf I believe. The one from "downunder". I could be
wrong.
>
I think his name was Urdli.... He was one cold-hearted son-of-a-bitch. I
don't like him that much, but then I hate all immortal elves *grin*

I think Umsondo is more likely to be from Africa the name suggests it....
The Zulu nation is all elven.

Oh great... *another* elven nation. So many targets; so few nukes.

Talk about tolkeinising the game *sigh*
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Message no. 9
From: Max Rible <cheshire@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: Blood Elves.
Date: Thu, 17 Oct 1996 10:51:25 -0800
At 23:50 10/17/96 +1000, Marty wrote:
>I think Umsondo is more likely to be from Africa the name suggests it....
>The Zulu nation is all elven.

The best suggestion I've heard is that Umsondo is the sphinx from Thera.
(The one created by Jaron with the help of three Great Form earth elementals.)
He also appears to be a Watcher, whatever that is, which grants him some
degree of respect from everyone else.
--
%%% Max Rible %%% cheshire@*****.com %%% http://www.amurgsval.org/~cheshire %%%
%%% "Before enlightenment: sharpen claws, catch mice. %%%
%%% After enlightenment: sharpen claws, catch mice." - me %%%
Message no. 10
From: Mike Elkins <MikeE@*********.COM>
Subject: Re: Blood Elves. -Reply
Date: Thu, 17 Oct 1996 15:35:38 -0500
Granite wrote:
>Thorns can be removed.

They can??? I'm not an ED expert, but can you give me a reference for this? I
seem to recall mentions about the Blood Elves trying to "cure" themselves after
the
scourge to "heal" the rift between them and other elves.

Double-Domed Mike
Message no. 11
From: Steven Ratkovich <chaos@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: Blood Elves.
Date: Thu, 17 Oct 1996 16:10:19 -0500
>At 23:50 10/17/96 +1000, Marty wrote:
>>I think Umsondo is more likely to be from Africa the name suggests it....
>>The Zulu nation is all elven.
>
>The best suggestion I've heard is that Umsondo is the sphinx from Thera.
>(The one created by Jaron with the help of three Great Form earth elementals.)
>He also appears to be a Watcher, whatever that is, which grants him some
>degree of respect from everyone else.
>
Yeah, now I remember, someone thought he might be an Immortal from Azania.
Hmmm, can't really comment on the Sphinx thing as I still know relatively
zilch about ED.

As for the watcher thing, maybe that's taking (and this is a vague guess)
the concept that Marvel uses as well as the Highlander TV show.

In Marvel Comics, tehre is a race of beings called the Watchers who do
nothing but observe events and chronicle them. they are swron not to interfere.

In Highlander (I don't get to see it often, so I may be a little off), as
far as I can tell, the Watchers are a roup of (mostly) mortal humans who
know about teh Immortals and record the events that happen. They are mostly
neutral, but some help the good immortals (McCloud and Friends) on occasion.

Think these "Watchers" that are referred to are anything like that?

-Bull-now-these-are-the-discussions-I-really-enjoy-decker-turned-GM
Message no. 12
From: Guardian <s777317@*******.GU.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: Blood Elves.
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 09:24:22 +1000
> The Tir Tairngire sourcebook refers to Jenna N'Faira <sp?> as having a
> portrait of herslef with thorns. In the Worlds Without End novel, Aina also
> has a painting of blood elves, and they reveal that Alachia, queen of Tir
> Na n'Og (posts under the name of Lady of the Court), was the queen of Blood
> Wood in E/D.

Agreed in general, except Alachia is an advisor to the queen, not the
queen herself. I'm fairly certain the actual queen isn't an immortal
elf, or if she is, she hasn't been immortal very long.

Guardian

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"It's called tourist season, so why can't we shoot them?"
Adam Treloar aka Guardian
s777317@*****.student.gu.edu.au http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1900/
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Message no. 13
From: GRANITE <granite@**.NET>
Subject: Re: Blood Elves. -Reply
Date: Thu, 17 Oct 1996 23:02:30 -0700
Mike Elkins wrote:
>
> Granite wrote:
> >Thorns can be removed.
>
> They can??? I'm not an ED expert, but can you give me a reference for this?


I am not real sure exactly what you want..I would give you a quote out od
the ED core rules..However, I lent it to a friend in the hopes of getting
him interested enough to want to play..Anyway..The whole Idea of the
Ritual of Thorns in the first place was to keep the horrors from getting
them as Queen Alachia had elected to build their kaer out of wood and
magic rather than submit to Theran domination..So they decided to torture
themselves so the Horrors wouldn't want to torture them..Weird I know..At
any rate..After the end of the Scourge the Elves of BloodWood continued
to embrace the Ritual of Thorns..Because, the rest of the Elves refused
to folow their queen into doom..In a way they were wrong..The Elves of
BloodWood did survive..At a terrible price..All true elves long for the
reunification of the Elven peoples..since the Elven Court was their
heart..And the Blood Elves are now residing within that heart..Not
cool..But, all true elves know that reunification can never happen as
long as the Blood Elves continue to embrace the Ritual that has tainted
the Blood Elves..[I paraphrased more or less some of the info from the ED
sourcebook Denizens of ED vol 1 about the Elves and the Blood Elves]

>I
> seem to recall mentions about the Blood Elves trying to "cure" themselves
after the
> scourge to "heal" the rift between them and other elves.

That is what all the Elves want that didn't hang out in WyrmWood [Now
called BloodWood] during the Scourge..However Queen Alachia has a long
memory..And the Blood Elves have been warped..
--
-------------------------------GRANITE
=================================================================
Lord, Grant Me The Serinity To Accept The Things I Cannot Change,
The Courage To Change The Things I Can,
And The Wisdom To Hide The Bodies Of Those People I Had To Kill
Because They Pissed Me Off.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ShadowRunner's Serinity Prayer
Message no. 14
From: Loki <loki@*******.COM>
Subject: Re: Blood Elves.
Date: Thu, 17 Oct 1996 22:32:43 -0700
----------
> >The Tir Tairngire sourcebook refers to Jenna N'Faira <sp?> as having a
> >portrait of herslef with thorns. In the Worlds Without End novel, Aina
also
> >has a painting of blood elves, and they reveal that Alachia, queen of
Tir
> >Na n'Og (posts under the name of Lady of the Court), was the queen of
Blood
> >Wood in E/D.
>
> I don't think Alachia is posting in the Aztlan sourcebook, unless she's
> Hecate. Lady of the Court is Brane Deigh, who is immortal, but is still
quite
> young (a spike baby at the eldest). Brane Deigh has joined the ranks of
the
> immortals because of the rituals antedating the Blood Wood for selecting
an
> elven queen. (They're discussed in Denizens of Earthdawn, Volume 1.)

You're right. I realized my confusion of Alachia with Brane Deigh after
posting it. Brane is definitely Lady of the Court. Alachia may be Hacate.
But I don't know if her ego will allowing her conferring with the other
immortal posters. She probably posts through Brane from behind the scenes.

@>-,--'--- Loki

CLARKE'S THIRD LAW:
Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.

*********************************************
Poisoned Elves
http://www.netzone.com/~loki/
*********************************************
Message no. 15
From: Steven Ratkovich <chaos@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: Blood Elves.
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 02:04:20 -0500
>You're right. I realized my confusion of Alachia with Brane Deigh after
>posting it. Brane is definitely Lady of the Court. Alachia may be Hacate.
>But I don't know if her ego will allowing her conferring with the other
>immortal posters. She probably posts through Brane from behind the scenes.
>
Most people that I've talked to about this seem to agree that Hecate may be
a Greater Feathered Serpent, therefore immortal...

I submit the question once again, however... Who is Jungle Cat? He seems
to be the only unknown. The only thing anyone can postulate is that he may
be a leader in Amazonia, and possibly a dragon or a shape shifter. i vote
for the shape shifter, seeing as how if he was a dragon, he'd be the only
one of teh "mystery posters" whose name didn't quite fit their true identity
somehow. If he is a shape shifter (ala Stryper), then is he immortal? If
not, why is he the only non-immortal in that group? If he is, then that's a
very new concept, that the shape shifters can be immortal. Something to
think about.

-Bull-the-won't-let-this-question-die-decker-turned-GM
Message no. 16
From: Max Rible <cheshire@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: Blood Elves.
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 10:59:57 -0800
At 22:32 10/17/96 -0700, Loki wrote:
>>I don't think Alachia is posting in the Aztlan sourcebook, unless she's
>>Hecate. Lady of the Court is Brane Deigh, who is immortal, but is still quite
>>young (a spike baby at the eldest). Brane Deigh has joined the ranks of the
>>immortals because of the rituals antedating the Blood Wood for selecting an
>>elven queen. (They're discussed in Denizens of Earthdawn, Volume 1.)

>You're right. I realized my confusion of Alachia with Brane Deigh after
>posting it. Brane is definitely Lady of the Court. Alachia may be Hacate.
>But I don't know if her ego will allowing her conferring with the other
>immortal posters. She probably posts through Brane from behind the scenes.

I doubt that Alachia is behind Brane Deigh. For one thing, she's
Jenna ni'Fairra, one of the High Princes of Tir Tairngire. (When the
painting is mentioned in the sourcebook, Harlequin comments on her
being the Blood Queen.) Brane Deigh is a pawn of elves who *didn't*
like the Blood Wood that are trying to recreate the customs of the
elven race from before the Ritual of Thorns. I can't see Alachia being
pleased about this young upstart being her replacement.
--
%%% Max Rible %%% cheshire@*****.com %%% http://www.amurgsval.org/~cheshire %%%
%%% "Before enlightenment: sharpen claws, catch mice. %%%
%%% After enlightenment: sharpen claws, catch mice." - me %%%
Message no. 17
From: Loki <loki@*******.COM>
Subject: Re: Blood Elves.
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 11:32:31 -0700
> Usmondo is another elf I believe. The one from "downunder". I could be
wrong.

You may be thinking of Urdli, the immortal aborigini from the novels...

@>-,--'--- Loki

CLARKE'S THIRD LAW:
Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.

*********************************************
Poisoned Elves
http://www.netzone.com/~loki/
*********************************************
Message no. 18
From: Loki <loki@*******.COM>
Subject: Re: Blood Elves.
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 23:43:39 -0700
> > The Tir Tairngire sourcebook refers to Jenna N'Faira <sp?> as having a
> > portrait of herslef with thorns. In the Worlds Without End novel, Aina
also
> > has a painting of blood elves, and they reveal that Alachia, queen of
Tir
> > Na n'Og (posts under the name of Lady of the Court), was the queen of
Blood
> > Wood in E/D.
>
> Agreed in general, except Alachia is an advisor to the queen, not the
> queen herself. I'm fairly certain the actual queen isn't an immortal
> elf, or if she is, she hasn't been immortal very long.
>
> Guardian

I commented on my mistake on another post. Alachia is the personal
confidant of Lady Brane Deigh, the Queen of the Tir Na n'Og Seelie Court,
not the actual Queen herself. Brane is an immortal, but only a newly come
one.

Interesting note I forgot to mention...Jenna N'Faira (the one mentioned in
Tir Taingire as having a portrait of herself with thorns) is Alachia's
daughter. See the Worlds Without End novel.

@>-,--'--- Loki

CLARKE'S THIRD LAW:
Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.

*********************************************
Poisoned Elves
http://www.netzone.com/~loki/
*********************************************
Message no. 19
From: Loki <loki@*******.COM>
Subject: Re: Blood Elves.
Date: Sat, 19 Oct 1996 11:32:57 -0700
----------
> From: Max Rible <cheshire@*****.COM>
> To: SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET
> Subject: Re: Blood Elves.
> Date: Friday, October 18, 1996 11:59 AM
> I doubt that Alachia is behind Brane Deigh. For one thing, she's
> Jenna ni'Fairra, one of the High Princes of Tir Tairngire. (When the
> painting is mentioned in the sourcebook, Harlequin comments on her
> being the Blood Queen.) Brane Deigh is a pawn of elves who *didn't*
> like the Blood Wood that are trying to recreate the customs of the
> elven race from before the Ritual of Thorns. I can't see Alachia being
> pleased about this young upstart being her replacement.

Then you need to read the S/R novel Worlds Without End. It clearly explains
how Alachia if Bran'e most closest and trusted advisor. Whether Alachia has
Brane's best interest in mind is of course debatable. Then later in a
gathering of the council in the Tir Alachia walks over to Jenna and
whispers how she shouldn't have worn leather's to the meeting and the
smiles and says "It's a mother's perogitive."

It also explains flat out that thought Jenna and Alachia look like twins,
they're mother and daughter.

Read the novel, it's all there, and more behind the scenes info on the
immortal if you're interested.

@>-,--'--- Loki

CLARKE'S THIRD LAW:
Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.

*********************************************
Poisoned Elves
http://www.netzone.com/~loki/
*********************************************
Message no. 20
From: Droopy <droopy@*******.NB.NET>
Subject: Re: Blood Elves.
Date: Sun, 20 Oct 1996 16:02:03 +0000
> From: Loki <loki@*******.COM>

> I commented on my mistake on another post. Alachia is the personal
> confidant of Lady Brane Deigh, the Queen of the Tir Na n'Og Seelie Court,
> not the actual Queen herself. Brane is an immortal, but only a newly come
> one.

Interesting.....I never added these together before, but the top
individuals in both Tir's are young compared to their counterparts...
I wonder if this is intentional....

Oh...and Alachia was the Queen of Bloodwood, so calling her a queen
is not unreasonable.


--Droopy
Message no. 21
From: Marty <s457033@*******.GU.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: Blood Elves.
Date: Mon, 21 Oct 1996 21:13:24 +1000
> > I commented on my mistake on another post. Alachia is the personal
> > confidant of Lady Brane Deigh, the Queen of the Tir Na n'Og Seelie Court,
> > not the actual Queen herself. Brane is an immortal, but only a newly come
> > one.
>
> Interesting.....I never added these together before, but the top
> individuals in both Tir's are young compared to their counterparts...
> I wonder if this is intentional....
>
Puppet masters always work better from behind the scenes. Besides, all
of the immortal elves have their own agendas and they wouldn't want the
hassle of running a country as the figurehead. Or, the younger elves
could be the only compromise they could reach, or they may be more easily
manipulated.
Message no. 22
From: Max Rible <cheshire@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: Blood Elves.
Date: Mon, 21 Oct 1996 10:35:46 -0800
At 11:32 10/19/96 -0700, Loki wrote:
>Then you need to read the S/R novel Worlds Without End. It clearly explains
>how Alachia if Bran'e most closest and trusted advisor. Whether Alachia has
>Brane's best interest in mind is of course debatable. Then later in a
>gathering of the council in the Tir Alachia walks over to Jenna and
>whispers how she shouldn't have worn leather's to the meeting and the
>smiles and says "It's a mother's perogitive."

If you read the Tir Tairngire sourcebook-- which I'll take as an authoritative
source over a cheesefest like _Worlds Without End_ any day of the week-- The
Laughing Man (Harlequin) refers to Jenna as the Blood Queen. Unless a
sourcebook comes out with something that contradicts that post, I'm sticking
with the Jenna == Alachia notion.
--
%%% Max Rible %%% cheshire@*****.com %%% http://www.amurgsval.org/~cheshire %%%
%%% "Before enlightenment: sharpen claws, catch mice. %%%
%%% After enlightenment: sharpen claws, catch mice." - me %%%
Message no. 23
From: Droopy <droopy@*******.NB.NET>
Subject: Re: Blood Elves.
Date: Tue, 22 Oct 1996 01:20:09 +0000
Max said:

> At 11:32 10/19/96 -0700, Loki wrote:
> >Then you need to read the S/R novel Worlds Without End. It clearly explains
> >how Alachia if Bran'e most closest and trusted advisor. Whether Alachia has
> >Brane's best interest in mind is of course debatable. Then later in a
> >gathering of the council in the Tir Alachia walks over to Jenna and
> >whispers how she shouldn't have worn leather's to the meeting and the
> >smiles and says "It's a mother's perogitive."
>
> If you read the Tir Tairngire sourcebook-- which I'll take as an authoritative
> source over a cheesefest like _Worlds Without End_ any day of the week-- The
> Laughing Man (Harlequin) refers to Jenna as the Blood Queen. Unless a
> sourcebook comes out with something that contradicts that post, I'm sticking
> with the Jenna == Alachia notion.

If Alachia (who is a different person BTW) didn't want to be queen,
then by default, her daughter would take her spot.


--Droopy
droopy@**.net
Message no. 24
From: Droopy <droopy@*******.NB.NET>
Subject: Re: Blood Elves.
Date: Tue, 22 Oct 1996 01:20:09 +0000
Marty said:

> Puppet masters always work better from behind the scenes. Besides, all
> of the immortal elves have their own agendas and they wouldn't want the
> hassle of running a country as the figurehead. Or, the younger elves
> could be the only compromise they could reach, or they may be more easily
> manipulated.

Or they might be the next generation of leaders for a reason, like
they are younger and perhaps not tainted by the horrors. I can
easily think of some more possible reasons, not all of which involve
secret plots.


--Droopy
droopy@**.net
Message no. 25
From: Loki <loki@*******.COM>
Subject: Re: Blood Elves.
Date: Mon, 21 Oct 1996 22:42:19 -0700
> If you read the Tir Tairngire sourcebook-- which I'll take as an
authoritative
> source over a cheesefest like _Worlds Without End_ any day of the week--
The
> Laughing Man (Harlequin) refers to Jenna as the Blood Queen. Unless a
> sourcebook comes out with something that contradicts that post, I'm
sticking
> with the Jenna == Alachia notion.

<Shrug> You perogitive. Doesn't affect my game world any. I haven't used
the immortals in any campaign enough to matter. I was simply pointing out
what I'd come across.

@>-,--'--- Loki

CLARKE'S THIRD LAW:
Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.

*********************************************
Poisoned Elves
http://www.netzone.com/~loki/
*********************************************
Message no. 26
From: Marty <s457033@*******.GU.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: Blood Elves.
Date: Wed, 23 Oct 1996 15:44:19 +1000
> > Laughing Man (Harlequin) refers to Jenna as the Blood Queen. Unless a
> > sourcebook comes out with something that contradicts that post, I'm
> sticking
> > with the Jenna == Alachia notion.
>
> <Shrug> You perogitive. Doesn't affect my game world any. I haven't used
> the immortals in any campaign enough to matter. I was simply pointing out
> what I'd come across.
>
Hey, has anyone pointed out that Harlequin is also The Last Knight of the
Crying Spire?? Go check out the last entry in Dunkelzahn's will and tell
me how much you envy him.

Bleach
Message no. 27
From: "E. Elizabeth Bartley" <eeb1@******.UCHICAGO.EDU>
Subject: Re: Blood Elves.
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 1996 08:42:34 -0600
Max Rible <cheshire@*****.COM> wrote:

>If you read the Tir Tairngire sourcebook-- which I'll take as an
>authoritative source over a cheesefest like _Worlds Without End_ any
>day of the week-- The Laughing Man (Harlequin) refers to Jenna as the
>Blood Queen. Unless a sourcebook comes out with something that
>contradicts that post, I'm sticking with the Jenna == Alachia notion.

Er, I think you've misplaced the context in the Tir Tairngire
sourcebook. Someone anonymous had posted that he'd been to Jenna
Ni'Fairra's home once, and:

"I saw a painting there ... and it felt _old_.... The subject of
the painting was a woman, so similar in feature to Jenna Ni'Fairra
that I initially took it as a painting of her, or a close relative....
She was (needless to say) stunningly beautiful -- except for the
thorns.
She wasn't wearing thorns, they were part of her...."

In response to _that_, Harlequin/The Laughing Man says, "Ah yes, our
dear sweet Blood Queen. Now there is a tale to be told."

In context, Harlequin is talking about the painting's subject, who may
or may not be Jenna Ni'Fairra. If the painting were of her mother,
the two sources wouldn't disagree.

- Beth Bartley
Message no. 28
From: Faux Pas <thomas@********.COM>
Subject: Blood Elves
Date: Thu, 30 Jan 1997 13:03:38 -0600
Are there any Blood Elves still in Shadowrun's Sixth World? Or at least
alive in 2056.
-Thomas Deeny
telltale.hart.org

"Yes."
-Tamara [soon-to-be] Deeny
Message no. 29
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Blood Elves
Date: Fri, 31 Jan 1997 18:25:44 +0000
|
|Are there any Blood Elves still in Shadowrun's Sixth World? Or at least
|alive in 2056.

I think Alachia is one of the Immortal Elves (tm)...

I don't think the Magic level is high enough for her to start dripping
again yet though....
--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Message no. 30
From: L Canthros <lobo1@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Blood Elves
Date: Fri, 31 Jan 1997 18:55:06 EST
On Thu, 30 Jan 1997 13:03:38 -0600 Faux Pas <thomas@********.COM> writes:
>Are there any Blood Elves still in Shadowrun's Sixth World? Or at
>least
>alive in 2056.
I'd assume...I thought most of the Immortal Elves (tm) _were_ Blood
Elves...

Canthros-the-doesn't-know-quite-what-he's-talking-about-again-shapeshifter-mage
--
If any man wishes peace, canthros1@***.com
let him prepare for war. lobo1@****.com
--Roman proverb
http://members.aol.com/canthros1/
Message no. 31
From: Mark Steedman <M.J.Steedman@***.RGU.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Blood Elves
Date: Mon, 3 Feb 1997 16:27:28 GMT
Faux Pas writes

> Are there any Blood Elves still in Shadowrun's Sixth World? Or at least
> alive in 2056.

Yes.

Someone mentioned Alachia.

This is probably why the elves are doing so much genetic research
before the magic level gets high enough to repower that ritual.
Telling which of the other immortal elves did and did not actually
live in blood wood gets quite a bit more difficult though as it
doesn't simply say anywhere, but quite a few of them must have done.

Mark
Message no. 32
From: Jose Vicente Mondejar Brell <jomonbre@[158.42.9.19]>
Subject: Re: Blood Elves
Date: Tue, 4 Feb 1997 16:11:06 +0000
> > Are there any Blood Elves still in Shadowrun's Sixth World? Or at least
> > alive in 2056.
<snip>

Hmmm. Risking to sound stupid... What is a Boold Elf?

--
Monde
Message no. 33
From: Thomas <thomas@********.COM>
Subject: Re: Blood Elves
Date: Tue, 4 Feb 1997 09:40:54 -0600
At 04:11 PM 2/4/97 +0000, you wrote:
>> > Are there any Blood Elves still in Shadowrun's Sixth World? Or at least
>> > alive in 2056.
><snip>
>
>Hmmm. Risking to sound stupid... What is a Boold Elf?

A Blood Elf is an elf from the fourth world (Earthdawn) that underwent the
Ritual of Thorns, a defensive magical ritual designed to protect them from
the Horrors. The ritual causes painful thorns to grow from the elf's body,
keeping the elf in constant pain. Not all the Earthdawn elves underwent
this ritual. It seems that this - the growing of thorns - occurs only when
the mana level passes a certain threshold. In Shadowrun's 2058, the magic
level hasn't yet reached that threshold and hopefully won't for a few
hundred (or thousand) years.

A current rumor is that the Tirs are engaging in genetic research to remove
the "grow painful thorns" from their DNA.


-Thomas Deeny
telltale.hart.org

"Yes."
-Tamara [soon-to-be] Deeny
Message no. 34
From: MC23 <mc23@****.NET>
Subject: Re: Blood Elves
Date: Tue, 4 Feb 1997 11:12:38 -0500
Thomas wrote,
>A current rumor is that the Tirs are engaging in genetic research to remove
>the "grow painful thorns" from their DNA.

And where did this rumor start? I haven't caught it before.




Ancient cultures believed that names held great power, personal
names more so and they were guarded very closely. To protect themselves,
they answered to another name, because if another discovered their real
name, it could be used against them.
History repeats itself.
Welcome to the Digital Age.
I am MC23
Message no. 35
From: Thomas <thomas@********.COM>
Subject: Re: Blood Elves
Date: Tue, 4 Feb 1997 10:21:24 -0600
At 11:12 AM 2/4/97 -0500, you wrote:
>Thomas wrote,
>>A current rumor is that the Tirs are engaging in genetic research to remove
>>the "grow painful thorns" from their DNA.
>
> And where did this rumor start? I haven't caught it before.

The Earthdawn/Shadowrun RPG Crossover Information web pages, one of which
is at:

http://edv2.parlinkom.gv.at:8079/edsrcros.htm

The same page is repeated on different [at least 2 other] web locations.


Thomas Deeny
Infobahn Austin
512 320 0556
Message no. 36
From: MC23 <mc23@****.NET>
Subject: Re: Blood Elves
Date: Tue, 4 Feb 1997 11:52:28 -0500
Thomas wrote,
>MC23 wrote:
>>Thomas wrote,
>>>A current rumor is that the Tirs are engaging in genetic research to remove
>>>the "grow painful thorns" from their DNA.
>>
>> And where did this rumor start? I haven't caught it before.
>
>The Earthdawn/Shadowrun RPG Crossover Information web pages, one of which
>is at:
>
>http://edv2.parlinkom.gv.at:8079/edsrcros.htm

But was this from print (FASA published book)? Very few definates have
crossed over that isn't just hearsay. Speretheil, Alachia, Vistrosh, and
the Havenherds are the only dual-system named things that has been
referenced along with the assuption that Mountainshadow is Dunklezahn.
This mana level thorns thing hasn't been officially mentioned anywhere
that I've noticed. I have thought it was possible that the ritual could
have been unmade. That was one of the living legend cults aims was it not.




Ancient cultures believed that names held great power, personal
names more so and they were guarded very closely. To protect themselves,
they answered to another name, because if another discovered their real
name, it could be used against them.
History repeats itself.
Welcome to the Digital Age.
I am MC23
Message no. 37
From: Jose Vicente Mondejar Brell <jomonbre@[158.42.9.19]>
Subject: Re: Blood Elves
Date: Tue, 4 Feb 1997 17:56:48 +0000
<snip my question and the answer about Blood Elves>

Thanks! Now I know it isn't in any of my sourcebooks. I was worried
that I had skipped any backgroug info about the SR world :)

> A current rumor is that the Tirs are engaging in genetic research to remove
> the "grow painful thorns" from their DNA.

Well, maybe I have missed some info. Where are these rumors from?

> -Thomas Deeny

--
Monde-the-Now-I-wonder-where-I'll-get-the-time-to-review-my-books-from.
Message no. 38
From: Joachim H A Buchert <avo_jb@**.HELSINKI.FI>
Subject: Re: Blood Elves
Date: Tue, 4 Feb 1997 19:16:26 +0200
SPOILER WARNING!!! ED -- SR Crossovers explored, in depth.


> >>>A current rumor is that the Tirs are engaging in genetic research to
remove
> >>>the "grow painful thorns" from their DNA.
> >>
> >> And where did this rumor start? I haven't caught it before.
> >
> >The Earthdawn/Shadowrun RPG Crossover Information web pages, one of which
> >is at:
> >http://edv2.parlinkom.gv.at:8079/edsrcros.htm
>
> But was this from print (FASA published book)? Very few definates have

Yes, but .. why would the elves be so interested in gengineering?

1) The Immortality Gene
2) The Ritual of Thorns

The first one is almost certain, the second, as you note, is not at all
certain.

> crossed over that isn't just hearsay. Speretheil, Alachia, Vistrosh, and
> the Havenherds are the only dual-system named things that has been
> referenced along with the assuption that Mountainshadow is Dunklezahn.

I personally doubt Mountainshadow being Dunky. Or if he is, there is a
twist somewhere down the line. Why the change of name to that of his servant?

Theory 1. Mountainshadow kept the identity of his 'drake servant
Darktooth' hidden from even his dragon comrades. In truth, he was just
going out incognito.At some point, the others learned of the dupe, and he
just decided to take on that name in the 6th World. Otherwise it would
blow his cover. Unless, he blew his cover to just spite everyone for
being so ignorant.

> This mana level thorns thing hasn't been officially mentioned anywhere
> that I've noticed. I have thought it was possible that the ritual could
> have been unmade. That was one of the living legend cults aims was it not.

This and if the Drakes are capable of natural breeding in the future
remains to be seen. But if the Ritual was undone, I'm really interested
in exactly how ..

I wonder if FASA does the old GMs trick of listening at the players
suggestions, then devising the answers from those guesses. I bet we have
given them a lot of interesting/comic/totally ignorant/totally brilliant
suggestions in the past.

And I don't know about you, but I will continue to do so. Watch this
space and r.g.f.c ... :)

- J-
Message no. 39
From: Thomas <thomas@********.COM>
Subject: Re: Blood Elves
Date: Tue, 4 Feb 1997 11:07:46 -0600
At 11:52 AM 2/4/97 -0500, you wrote:
>>>>A current rumor is that the Tirs are engaging in genetic research to
remove
>>>>the "grow painful thorns" from their DNA.
>>>
>>> And where did this rumor start? I haven't caught it before.
>>
>>The Earthdawn/Shadowrun RPG Crossover Information web pages
>
> But was this from print (FASA published book)? Very few definates have
>crossed over that isn't just hearsay. Speretheil, Alachia, Vistrosh, and
>the Havenherds are the only dual-system named things that has been
>referenced along with the assuption that Mountainshadow is Dunklezahn.
>This mana level thorns thing hasn't been officially mentioned anywhere
>that I've noticed. I have thought it was possible that the ritual could
>have been unmade. That was one of the living legend cults aims was it not.

From the web page I referenced, in the "Guesswork" section at the end -
where the writer of the page offers some 'meandering guesses' on the events
in Shadowrun have to do with the events in Earthdawn - there is this tidbit:

"Tir Tairngire is heavy into genetic research so they can find a way to
remove the grow painful thorns portion of their DNA before the mana level
gets high enough for the Ritual of Thorns to have power again."

Which I read as Tir Tairngire has (probably in the Tir Tairngire
sourcebook, which I don't have) been stated as working on genetic research.
Everything after the "so" in that sentence is supposition by the original
author, and that's what rumors are made of. Unless FASA says "yes, the Tir
is dabbling in genetic research to counter the Ritual of Thorns" or "no,
that's way off base", all it is is a rumor.


Thomas Deeny
Infobahn Austin
512 320 0556
Message no. 40
From: "Mike Mulvihill (FASA)" <FASAMike@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Blood Elves
Date: Tue, 4 Feb 1997 14:31:21 -0500
In a message dated 2/4/97 04:16:09 PM, Thomas wrote:

>>A current rumor is that the Tirs are engaging in genetic research to remove
>>the "grow painful thorns" from their DNA.
>
> And where did this rumor start? I haven't caught it before.

Thorns and DNA have nothing to do with each other at all. The Thorns are part
of a magical ritual. So called Thorn Elves are in fact born regular elves and
the Ritual of The Thorns is done after they are born giving them thorns.

No one has begun such a practice in the sixth world.

Have Fun!
Play Games!
Historian At work!

Mike Mulvihill
Shadowrun Line Developer
FASA
www.fasa.com
Message no. 41
From: Tim Cooper <tpcooper@***.CSUPOMONA.EDU>
Subject: Re: Blood Elves
Date: Tue, 4 Feb 1997 12:48:15 -0800
On Tue, 4 Feb 1997, Jose Vicente Mondejar Brell wrote:

> > > Are there any Blood Elves still in Shadowrun's Sixth World? Or at least
> > > alive in 2056.
> <snip>
>
> Hmmm. Risking to sound stupid... What is a Boold Elf?

I don't know what "Boold Elves" are either...

>
> --
> Monde
>

Sorry, couldn't resist...
I'm not an ED player, but AFAIK they were a race of elves that did some
ritual to ward off the Horrors...the net result was that each of the elves
has thorns growing out of their skin - which are perpetually bleeding..
for a more indepth description/explanation wait for one of the ED players
to answer.

~Tim
Message no. 42
From: GRANITE <granite@**.NET>
Subject: Re: Blood Elves
Date: Tue, 4 Feb 1997 14:28:11 -0700
> From: "Mike Mulvihill (FASA)" <FASAMike@***.COM>

> Thorns and DNA have nothing to do with each other at all. The Thorns are part
> of a magical ritual. So called Thorn Elves are in fact born regular elves and
> the Ritual of The Thorns is done after they are born giving them thorns.

Thank you! I have tried to tell folks that when this thread [no pun
intended] came up before..But did they listen? Nooo...
-------------------------------GRANITE
=================================================================
Lord, Grant Me The Serenity To Accept The Things I Cannot Change,
The Courage To Change The Things I Can,
And The Wisdom To Hide The Bodies Of Those People I Had To Kill
Because They Pissed Me Off.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ShadowRunner's Serenity Prayer
Message no. 43
From: Brett Borger <bxb121@***.EDU>
Subject: Re: Blood Elves
Date: Tue, 4 Feb 1997 20:24:10 -0500
>I wonder if FASA does the old GMs trick of listening at the players
>suggestions, then devising the answers from those guesses. I bet we have
>given them a lot of interesting/comic/totally ignorant/totally brilliant
>suggestions in the past.

I love this trick....it only works well in certain situations, usually,
long, involved plots, where player discovery is slow, leading to lots of
speculation. Occasionally I'll have a plot device I like, but I just can't
tie it in neatly. If I set it up right, the players will give me the tie in
I need while trying to fingure out _my_ tie in (which was weak. I promptly
change it to a [slightly modified version] of what they figured out.

I don't like to use it too often, since it (kind of) cheats the runners, but
for some devices, it really works well. I'm always careful never to take
DIRECTLY what the players figure out, and I try and choose early, so they
still are trying to figure out something that really exists later.

-=SwiftOne=-
Message no. 44
From: Ashelock <woneal@*******.NET>
Subject: Re: Blood Elves
Date: Tue, 4 Feb 1997 22:42:45 -0005
On 4 Feb 97 at 17:56, Jose Vicente Mondejar Brell wrote:

> > A current rumor is that the Tirs are engaging in genetic research to
> > remove the "grow painful thorns" from their DNA.
>
> Well, maybe I have missed some info. Where are these rumors from?
>
Tir Tairngire sourcebook, Economy section, Kokura Biotechnology Inc
(pp81-82).

>>>>>[Officially, Kokura Biotengineering, New Dawn and GTC are working on
ways of suprressing the immune response to avoid tissue rejection syndrome
with vat-grown replacement parts. Officially. So how come none of the
Kokura scientists assigned to the Tir facilities are immunologists?
They're all gerontologists or mages.]<<<<<
Faye (17:00:50/3-21-54)

>>>>>["Gerontologists?"he asks dully...]<<<<<
Barre Sinister (19:13:54/3-21-54)

>>>>>[Scientist who study aging chummer.}<<<<<
Trivia Master (21:27:00/3-21-54}

Does that answer the question?

--

Ashelock
mailto:woneal@*******.net

"They say it's a brave new world we're building. I say they're right,
and we'll all have to be pretty brave to live in it."
Message no. 45
From: MC23 <mc23@****.NET>
Subject: Re: Blood Elves
Date: Tue, 4 Feb 1997 23:05:13 -0500
Ashelock wrote,
> Tir Tairngire sourcebook, Economy section, Kokura Biotechnology Inc
>(pp81-82).
<snip>
>>>>>[Scientist who study aging chummer.}<<<<<
> Trivia Master (21:27:00/3-21-54}
>
> Does that answer the question?

Not on the Thorns, Immortality and aging yes.
There was also a mention somewhere that the Vitas epidemic could
have possibly been tailored to wipe out certain metahuman expressions
such as new metahumans. Does anyone else recall this and where it was
from?

- MC23, conspiracy buff -
Message no. 46
From: Ashelock <woneal@*******.NET>
Subject: Re: Blood Elves
Date: Wed, 5 Feb 1997 01:36:04 -0005
On 4 Feb 97 at 23:05, MC23 wrote:

>
> Not on the Thorns, Immortality and aging yes.
I think it's where the genetics rumors started and the Thorns bit was
some guessing. Mike pretty much squished that rumor though.

> There was also a mention somewhere that the Vitas epidemic could
> have possibly been tailored to wipe out certain metahuman expressions
> such as new metahumans. Does anyone else recall this and where it was
> from?
Umm... it took me awhile to find this. I know the statement you were
referring to. At first I thought it was in the London scourcebook, part
of the ZetaImpChem scandal. Turns out it was in the Tir na nOg
scourebook, p29. I believe the following was the statement you were
talking about (I hope, went cross-eyed finding it).

>>>>>[Hey, has anyone considered a connection between VITAS and UGE? No
one's ever adequately explained either one. Could they be related? Did
VITAS purge humanity of some trait, or even some other metahuman race,
just prior to UGE? Just a thouth....]<<<<<
Mr. Munch (20:14:39/7-07-54)

The theory that VITAS may have been engineered comes from elsewhere, but
I'm not sure right now where. Put the two together... add some immortals
and you get a lovely brew of conspiracy. Guess we know what happened to
Obsidimen and T'skrang.
--

Ashelock
mailto:woneal@*******.net

"They say it's a brave new world we're building. I say they're right,
and we'll all have to be pretty brave to live in it."
Message no. 47
From: Court Schuett <schuett@*****.IVCC.EDU>
Subject: Re: Blood Elves
Date: Wed, 5 Feb 1997 01:26:12 -0600
On Wed, 5 Feb 1997, Ashelock wrote:
> The theory that VITAS may have been engineered comes from elsewhere, but
> I'm not sure right now where. Put the two together... add some immortals
> and you get a lovely brew of conspiracy. Guess we know what happened to
> Obsidimen and T'skrang.

> Ashelock
Not to pick a nit or anything, but I always figured after the mana levels
went down, Obsidiman would just kinda got to their Liferocks and sleep or
whatever they do. T'skrang I can see it wiping out, but...why? The
T'skrang weren't big players in ED were they? Wasn't it mostly elves,
dwarfs and Therans? Who would want to kill out the T'skrang. That
always made me kinda wonder, whatever happened to them. Weird.
Windlings came back, but not in PC form. :( Wouldn't that be cool? See
a windling get blown back 10 meters after shotting a Pred? :)

-Court


/* Court Schuett

schuett@*****.ivcc.edu
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Where your eyes don't go a filthy scarecrow waves its broomstick arms
And does a parody of each unconscious thing you do
When you turn around to look it's gone behind you
On its face it's wearing your confused expression
Where your eyes don't go
-They Might Be Giants
*******************************************************************************/
Message no. 48
From: Bull <chaos@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: Blood Elves
Date: Wed, 5 Feb 1997 03:24:05 -0500
At 01:26 AM 2/5/97 -0600, Court Schuett babbled:

>Not to pick a nit or anything, but I always figured after the mana levels
>went down, Obsidiman would just kinda got to their Liferocks and sleep or
>whatever they do. T'skrang I can see it wiping out, but...why? The
>T'skrang weren't big players in ED were they? Wasn't it mostly elves,
>dwarfs and Therans? Who would want to kill out the T'skrang. That
>always made me kinda wonder, whatever happened to them. Weird.
>Windlings came back, but not in PC form. :( Wouldn't that be cool? See
>a windling get blown back 10 meters after shotting a Pred? :)
>
Actually, I think we went over this before about 5 or 6 months ago...
Basically, I figure the Obsidimen and the T'skrang will be back when the
mana level rises higher.

As for the Windlings, they really don't work well as a PC... They don't
mix with tech well enough. though our group looney has played one... In
fact, it's now a playmate (read: Pet) for Bulls kids...:)

Bull
--
Now the Fearless Leader of the New Star Wars Mailing List!

=======================================================
= Bull, aka Chaos, aka Rak, aka Steven Ratkovich =
= chaos@*****.com =
= "Order is Illusion! Chaos is Bliss! Got any fours?" =
=======================================================

We're there! And it's great!!!!
Message no. 49
From: Mark Steedman <M.J.Steedman@***.RGU.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Blood Elves
Date: Wed, 5 Feb 1997 08:44:11 GMT
Mike Mulvihill writes

> In a message dated 2/4/97 04:16:09 PM, Thomas wrote:
>
> >>A current rumor is that the Tirs are engaging in genetic research to remove
> >>the "grow painful thorns" from their DNA.
> >
> > And where did this rumor start? I haven't caught it before.
>
From guesswork based on comments made in the Tir Taingire sourcebook.


> Thorns and DNA have nothing to do with each other at all.
Ah! ha! not obvious until you said it as the logical guess for a long
time was that the ritual of thorns must have rewritten their DNA into
DNA for thorny eleves, well it was only a guess.

> The Thorns are part
> of a magical ritual. So called Thorn Elves are in fact born regular elves and
> the Ritual of The Thorns is done after they are born giving them thorns.
>
Ah that answers the vital question 'do thorn (blood) eleves give
birth to regular elves or alrady converted 'thorny' eleves'. I knew
from ED you could turn one into the other through the ritual. This
must have made new born babies a real danger to the elves in Wyrm
wood during the scourge until they could perfrom the ritual on them.

> No one has begun such a practice in the sixth world.
>
> Have Fun!
> Play Games!
> Historian At work!
....

>
Mark
Message no. 50
From: Ashelock <woneal@*******.NET>
Subject: Re: Blood Elves
Date: Wed, 5 Feb 1997 06:12:45 -0005
On 5 Feb 97 at 1:26, Court Schuett wrote:

> On Wed, 5 Feb 1997, Ashelock wrote:
> > The theory that VITAS may have been engineered comes from
> > elsewhere, but
> > I'm not sure right now where. Put the two together... add some
> > immortals and you get a lovely brew of conspiracy. Guess we know what
> > happened to Obsidimen and T'skrang.
>
> > Ashelock
> Not to pick a nit or anything, but I always figured after the mana levels
> went down, Obsidiman would just kinda got to their Liferocks and sleep or
> whatever they do. T'skrang I can see it wiping out, but...why? The
> T'skrang weren't big players in ED were they? Wasn't it mostly elves,
> dwarfs and Therans? Who would want to kill out the T'skrang. That
> always made me kinda wonder, whatever happened to them. Weird. Windlings
> came back, but not in PC form. :( Wouldn't that be cool? See a windling
> get blown back 10 meters after shotting a Pred? :)

You've got a good point Court. I can only guess at it, but this is what
I figure. Tir na nOg, the module Dark Angel (which makes veiled
references to ED) and ED were all copyrighted in 1993. Thus, they were
all written about the same time. I would guess that FASA needed some way
to explain why there weren't any T'skrang or Obsidimen in SR. So they
came up with this "fix". That's my guess anyway. Maybe Mike will give us
the real dirt.
--

Ashelock
mailto:woneal@*******.net

"They say it's a brave new world we're building. I say they're right,
and we'll all have to be pretty brave to live in it."
Message no. 51
From: Lady Jestyr <jestyr@*******.DIALIX.COM.AU>
Subject: Re: Blood Elves
Date: Wed, 5 Feb 1997 22:24:05 +1100
> As for the Windlings, they really don't work well as a PC... They don't
> mix with tech well enough. though our group looney has played one... In
> fact, it's now a playmate (read: Pet) for Bulls kids...:)

I too have played one, though I don't know if I can yet lay claim to the
title of group looney. :) They're fun to play - VERY fun - but I had
problems with roleplaying. I *love* roleplaying, interacting with NPCs
etc, and it was really difficult when you're a freak that shouldn't
exist...

Lady Jestyr

-----------------------------------------------
A titanic intellect in a world full of icebergs
-----------------------------------------------
Elle Holmes jestyr@*******.dialix.com.au
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1503/
-----------------------------------------------
Remember, no matter what they say, you can
never have enough sugar. - Michael
-----------------------------------------------
Message no. 52
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: Blood Elves
Date: Wed, 5 Feb 1997 12:34:03 +0100
Court Schuett said on 1:26/ 5 Feb 97...

> Not to pick a nit or anything, but I always figured after the mana levels
> went down, Obsidiman would just kinda got to their Liferocks and sleep or
> whatever they do.

... and get ground to little bits when somebody decides to build a mine
there :)

> T'skrang I can see it wiping out, but...why? The T'skrang weren't big
> players in ED were they?

They do control most of the Serpent River and the trade on it. I'd say
that makes them a force to keep in mind (I haven't read the Serpent River
sourcebook, though).

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Too many hangers in the closet.
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version 3.1:
GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+ PE
Y PGP- t(+) 5+ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
Message no. 53
From: MC23 <mc23@****.NET>
Subject: Re: Blood Elves
Date: Wed, 5 Feb 1997 10:38:22 -0500
Court Schuett wrote,
>Not to pick a nit or anything, but I always figured after the mana levels
>went down, Obsidiman would just kinda got to their Liferocks and sleep or
>whatever they do.
Obsidiman have about a 200 year gestation period. It may be a long
time before we would see them anyway.
>T'skrang I can see it wiping out, but...why?
We all know dragons want to become T'skrang. B>]#
I really can't accept that T'skrang and Obisidiman are human
varients so I think something else happened. Maybe we just haven't seen
them yet. What _is_ going on in Amazonia?

- MC23, Questor of Mynbruje -
Message no. 54
From: "Mike Mulvihill (FASA)" <FASAMike@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Blood Elves
Date: Wed, 5 Feb 1997 12:26:00 -0500
In a message dated 2/5/97 01:55:29 PM, you wrote:

>I would guess that FASA needed some way
>to explain why there weren't any T'skrang or Obsidimen in SR. So they
>came up with this "fix". That's my guess anyway. Maybe Mike will give us
>the real dirt.

They died out an the end of the last magic cycle and didn't make it, plus
being more mgically constructed than the other they took the lack of magic
"harder" than the others. So therfore, no real fix. For the sake of argument
assume there were something like 20-25 different races and the Second Cycle
and 8 survied that loss of magic now only 5 survived this next one...


Have Fun!
Play Games!
Historian At large!

Mike Mulvihill
Shadowrun Line Developer
FASA
www.fasa.com
Message no. 55
From: Slothman <slothman@*********.ORG>
Subject: Re: Blood Elves
Date: Wed, 5 Feb 1997 11:21:18 -0800
At 12:26 2/5/97 -0500, Mike Mulvihill (FASA) wrote:
>In a message dated 2/5/97 01:55:29 PM, you wrote:

>>I would guess that FASA needed some way
>>to explain why there weren't any T'skrang or Obsidimen in SR. So they
>>came up with this "fix". That's my guess anyway. Maybe Mike will give
us
>>the real dirt.

>They died out an the end of the last magic cycle and didn't make it, plus
>being more mgically constructed than the other they took the lack of magic
>"harder" than the others. So therfore, no real fix. For the sake of argument
>assume there were something like 20-25 different races and the Second Cycle
>and 8 survied that loss of magic now only 5 survived this next one...

Hmmm-- humans, elves, dwarfs, orks, trolls, windlings, t'skrang, and obsidimen
makes eight, but we have windlings (sprites) in SR, making 6.

The interesting question is: where did the windlings come from?
I doubt they'd be a result of UGE in humans, or they'd be more common.

My personal theory is that they came out of the same place the drakes did.
(Drakes and sea serpents not being recognizably goblinized from anything else
on the planet.) No one managed to thoroughly destroy the True Patterns of
the races, so some of them popped out of nowhere...

--
%%% Slothman slothman@*********.org %%%
%%% "Red sky at morning, time for a nap. %%%
%%% Red sky at night, time for a nap." - cat proverb, Dave McKean, Cages %%%
Message no. 56
From: Court Schuett <schuett@*****.IVCC.EDU>
Subject: Re: Blood Elves
Date: Wed, 5 Feb 1997 14:45:31 -0600
On Wed, 5 Feb 1997, MC23 wrote:

> Court Schuett wrote,
> >Not to pick a nit or anything, but I always figured after the mana levels
> >went down, Obsidiman would just kinda got to their Liferocks and sleep or
> >whatever they do.
> Obsidiman have about a 200 year gestation period. It may be a long
> time before we would see them anyway.
That's kinda what I figured. And you think a troll is a nasty sammy,
how's about a Obsidiman Sam. :) It's too bad, but I really can't see
cyber or bio in a obsidiman. :)

> >T'skrang I can see it wiping out, but...why?
> We all know dragons want to become T'skrang. B>]#
> I really can't accept that T'skrang and Obisidiman are human
> varients so I think something else happened. Maybe we just haven't seen
> them yet. What _is_ going on in Amazonia?
I think Mike answered that in a later post. Thanks Mike. :) But what
bout the 20-22 races he talked about there. Can we ever look forward to
a 2nd world game? That'd be pretty cool. 20 races sounds neat. Hmmm,
horror PCs. :)
-Court


>
> - MC23, Questor of Mynbruje -
>

/* Court Schuett

schuett@*****.ivcc.edu
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
irretrievable
inconceivable
i am dutiful
but unbeautiful

Like the president
or mini-series queen
You are happening
but what does it mean
-Too Much Joy
*******************************************************************************/
Message no. 57
From: "Q (not from Star Trek)" <Scott.E.Meyer@*******.EDU>
Subject: Re: Blood Elves
Date: Wed, 5 Feb 1997 15:53:46 -0600
[snip stuff about obsidimen(sp?) and T'skrang]

> > varients so I think something else happened. Maybe we just haven't seen
> > them yet. What _is_ going on in Amazonia?
> I think Mike answered that in a later post. Thanks Mike. :) But what
> bout the 20-22 races he talked about there. Can we ever look forward to
> a 2nd world game? That'd be pretty cool. 20 races sounds neat. Hmmm,
> horror PCs. :)

Hmmm....ever wonder what happened to the dinosaurs?

There are a few more than the five _sentient_ races which are commonly
used as player characters. I'm not just talking about ogres and
minotaurs, either, although they would probably qualify. What about
sasquatches (everybody's always talking about those) and troglodytes? I
think there's a few more awakened primates as well in the PNAoNA, but i
can't think of them first hand. Any of those could be made into player
characters.

-Q

---------------------------------------
"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human
stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."
-Albert Einstein

Scott "Q" Meyer
Scott.E.Meyer@*******.edu
http://johnh.wheaton.edu/~smeyer
Message no. 58
From: Tim Serpas <wretch@**.COM>
Subject: Re: Blood Elves
Date: Wed, 5 Feb 1997 15:48:21 -0600
On Wed, 5 Feb 1997, Mike Mulvihill (FASA) wrote:
> >to explain why there weren't any T'skrang or Obsidimen in SR. So they
>
> They died out an the end of the last magic cycle and didn't make it, plus
> being more mgically constructed than the other they took the lack of magic
> "harder" than the others. So therfore, no real fix. For the sake of
argument
> assume there were something like 20-25 different races and the Second Cycle
> and 8 survied that loss of magic now only 5 survived this next one...
>
Interesting concept, extra races and all, but there are some easier
solutions which aren't so depressing.

Obsidimen: Mana isn't high enough. They're all still asleep in their
Liferocks. A few have probably been turned into bridges by now...

T'skrang: Well, I'd like to think that my friend Andy's Sky Raider led
them all into space to find new worlds and boldly split infinitives where
no name giver has before. But I don't relly have any explanation in a
good FASA context.

Peace, Love and Artichokes.
Tim Serpas
wretch@**.com
Message no. 59
From: L Canthros <lobo1@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Blood Elves
Date: Wed, 5 Feb 1997 17:36:23 EST
On Wed, 5 Feb 1997 12:26:00 -0500 "Mike Mulvihill (FASA)"
<FASAMike@***.COM> writes:
>In a message dated 2/5/97 01:55:29 PM, you wrote:
>
>>I would guess that FASA needed some way
>>to explain why there weren't any T'skrang or Obsidimen in SR. So
>they
>>came up with this "fix". That's my guess anyway. Maybe Mike will
>give us
>>the real dirt.
>
>They died out an the end of the last magic cycle and didn't make it,
>plus
>being more mgically constructed than the other they took the lack of
>magic
>"harder" than the others. So therfore, no real fix. For the sake of
>argument
>assume there were something like 20-25 different races and the Second
>Cycle
>and 8 survied that loss of magic now only 5 survived this next one...
>
Ooooh...now that's a bummer. Although, aren't there actually six races
surviving so far (popular speculation says that Sprites in PAoE are
actually Windlings...)? I always liked the idea that the mana level
hadn't risen high enough yet to accomodate Obsidimen and T'Skrang (and
would currently only support a very few Windlings:). OTOH, assuming
Obsidimen and T'skrang didn't survive (which I don't see as being a big
problem either way), then it stands to assume that fewer races will
survive the next dip in the mana cycle...Orks and Trolls almost certainly
will not and Elves and Dwarves will probably go next...

Canthros-the-disappointed-shapeshifter-mage
--
If any man wishes peace, canthros1@***.com
let him prepare for war. lobo1@****.com
--Roman proverb
http://members.aol.com/canthros1/
Message no. 60
From: L Canthros <lobo1@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Blood Elves
Date: Wed, 5 Feb 1997 18:03:10 EST
On Wed, 5 Feb 1997 15:48:21 -0600 Tim Serpas <wretch@**.COM> writes:
<snip Mike...sorry>
>Interesting concept, extra races and all, but there are some easier
>solutions which aren't so depressing.
>
>Obsidimen: Mana isn't high enough. They're all still asleep in their
>Liferocks. A few have probably been turned into bridges by now...
>
>T'skrang: Well, I'd like to think that my friend Andy's Sky Raider
>led
>them all into space to find new worlds and boldly split infinitives
>where
>no name giver has before. But I don't relly have any explanation in a
>good FASA context.
>
Perhaps the mana isn't high enough for them to emerge as races, like the
trols and orks which didn't appear for ten years after the elves and
dwarves were born. Would also explain why Obsidimen haven't appeared on
their own yet (like the elves, dwarves, trolls, orks, Windlings, and
anything else)

Canthros
--
If any man wishes peace, canthros1@***.com
let him prepare for war. lobo1@****.com
--Roman proverb
http://members.aol.com/canthros1/
Message no. 61
From: Brett Borger <bxb121@***.EDU>
Subject: Re: Blood Elves
Date: Wed, 5 Feb 1997 21:20:39 -0500
>I too have played one, though I don't know if I can yet lay claim to the
>title of group looney. :) They're fun to play - VERY fun - but I had
>problems with roleplaying. I *love* roleplaying, interacting with NPCs
>etc, and it was really difficult when you're a freak that shouldn't
>exist...
...I've done the same thing with any of my players that try the Metahuman
Variants. It's been effective so far....No Munchkins take it, because it
doesn't help them.

-=SwiftOne=-
Message no. 62
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Blood Elves
Date: Wed, 5 Feb 1997 23:36:29 +0000
|
|In a message dated 2/5/97 01:55:29 PM, you wrote:
|
|>I would guess that FASA needed some way
|>to explain why there weren't any T'skrang or Obsidimen in SR. So they
|>came up with this "fix". That's my guess anyway. Maybe Mike will give us
|>the real dirt.
|
|They died out an the end of the last magic cycle and didn't make it, plus
|being more mgically constructed than the other they took the lack of magic
|"harder" than the others. So therfore, no real fix. For the sake of argument
|assume there were something like 20-25 different races and the Second Cycle
|and 8 survied that loss of magic now only 5 survived this next one...

Please don't let this be official....

Please????

Obsidimen and Tskrang in shadowrun would add that little bit of extra...
Colour....
--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Message no. 63
From: Brett Borger <bxb121@***.EDU>
Subject: Re: Blood Elves
Date: Wed, 5 Feb 1997 22:19:58 -0500
>sasquatches (everybody's always talking about those) and troglodytes? I

I'm thinking of a humourous adventure where the Players run into a pack of
Sasquatches, and have to discover where the bad guys went. Imagine C3-PO
giving his story to the ewoks..... :)

-=SwiftOne=-
Message no. 64
From: Brett Borger <bxb121@***.EDU>
Subject: Re: Blood Elves
Date: Wed, 5 Feb 1997 22:30:32 -0500
>Obsidimen: Mana isn't high enough. They're all still asleep in their
>Liferocks. A few have probably been turned into bridges by now...

Oof....and I thought _I_ didn't get any respect....:)
-=SwiftOne=-
Message no. 65
From: Ashelock <woneal@*******.NET>
Subject: Re: Blood Elves
Date: Wed, 5 Feb 1997 20:15:35 -0005
On 5 Feb 97 at 23:36, Spike wrote:


> |They died out an the end of the last magic cycle
> and didn't make it, plus |being more mgically constructed than the other
> they took the lack of magic |"harder" than the others. So therfore, no
> real fix. For the sake of argument |assume there were something like
> 20-25 different races and the Second Cycle |and 8 survied that loss of
> magic now only 5 survived this next one...
>
> Please don't let this be official....
>
> Please????
>
> Obsidimen and Tskrang in shadowrun would add that little bit of extra...
> Colour.... --

Oh gads! I can see a T'skrang fixer now.... I might as well just had him
my money!

--

Ashelock
mailto:woneal@*******.net

"They say it's a brave new world we're building. I say they're right,
and we'll all have to be pretty brave to live in it."
Message no. 66
From: Ashelock <woneal@*******.NET>
Subject: Re: Blood Elves
Date: Wed, 5 Feb 1997 20:15:35 -0005
On 5 Feb 97 at 11:21, Slothman wrote:

> At 12:26 2/5/97 -0500, Mike Mulvihill (FASA) wrote:
> >They died out an the end of the last magic cycle and didn't make it,
> >plus being more mgically constructed than the other they took the lack
> >of magic "harder" than the others. So therfore, no real fix. For the
> >sake of argument assume there were something like 20-25 different races
> >and the Second Cycle and 8 survied that loss of magic now only 5
> >survived this next one...
>
> Hmmm-- humans, elves, dwarfs, orks, trolls, windlings, t'skrang, and
> obsidimen makes eight, but we have windlings (sprites) in SR, making 6.
>
> The interesting question is: where did the windlings come from?
> I doubt they'd be a result of UGE in humans, or they'd be more common.
Maybe someone made them from scratch. After all, where did those extinct
species of wolves and panthers in Tir Tairngire come from?

>
> My personal theory is that they came out of the same place the drakes
> did. (Drakes and sea serpents not being recognizably goblinized from
> anything else on the planet.) No one managed to thoroughly destroy the
> True Patterns of the races, so some of them popped out of nowhere...
Maybe, it's an interesting idea but somehow I don't think FASA has
anything that complex in mind. If I recall correctly, there were a lot of
hints in the critter books that someone was "manufacturing" some of these
creatures. I asked Mike where corpselights came from however, because I
don't see someone deliberately making the malign version of what used to
be a benevolent creature.
--

Ashelock
mailto:woneal@*******.net

"They say it's a brave new world we're building. I say they're right,
and we'll all have to be pretty brave to live in it."
Message no. 67
From: Ashelock <woneal@*******.NET>
Subject: Re: Blood Elves
Date: Wed, 5 Feb 1997 20:15:35 -0005
On 5 Feb 97 at 12:26, Mike Mulvihill (FASA) wrote:

> In a message dated 2/5/97 01:55:29 PM, you wrote:
>
> >I would guess that FASA needed some way
> >to explain why there weren't any T'skrang or Obsidimen in SR. So they
> >came up with this "fix". That's my guess anyway. Maybe Mike will give
> >us the real dirt.
>
> They died out an the end of the last magic cycle and didn't make it, plus
> being more mgically constructed than the other they took the lack of
> magic "harder" than the others. So therfore, no real fix. For the sake of
> argument assume there were something like 20-25 different races and the
> Second Cycle and 8 survied that loss of magic now only 5 survived this
> next one...
>
Hmm... not to start an arguement, but it seems to me there is a rather
large hole in that logic. If there wasn't enough magic for t'skrang or
obsidimen to survive, then explain corpselights? As I understand it these
creatures started out in the 4th World as magical constructs created by
wizards to provide light. The Horrors warped them and turned them into
something nasty during the Scourge. But they survived, reproduced and
became a species. That, as I understand is the origin of corpselights.
They are creatures of magic, made by magic and surviving on it. If they
survived the down cycle, why not t'skrang? <puzzled look>
--

Ashelock
mailto:woneal@*******.net

"They say it's a brave new world we're building. I say they're right,
and we'll all have to be pretty brave to live in it."
Message no. 68
From: Slothman <slothman@*********.ORG>
Subject: Re: Blood Elves
Date: Wed, 5 Feb 1997 17:43:19 -0800
At 20:15 2/5/97 -0005, Ashelock wrote:
>On 5 Feb 97 at 11:21, Slothman wrote:
>> The interesting question is: where did the windlings come from?
>> I doubt they'd be a result of UGE in humans, or they'd be more common.

> Maybe someone made them from scratch. After all, where did those extinct
>species of wolves and panthers in Tir Tairngire come from?

I had presumed that someone had read access to the True Pattern database
and managed to re-instantiate some with appropriately large rituals.

>> My personal theory is that they came out of the same place the drakes
>> did. (Drakes and sea serpents not being recognizably goblinized from
>> anything else on the planet.) No one managed to thoroughly destroy the
>> True Patterns of the races, so some of them popped out of nowhere...

> Maybe, it's an interesting idea but somehow I don't think FASA has
>anything that complex in mind. If I recall correctly, there were a lot of
>hints in the critter books that someone was "manufacturing" some of these
>creatures. I asked Mike where corpselights came from however, because I
>don't see someone deliberately making the malign version of what used to
>be a benevolent creature.

I don't think anyone's up to creating those life forms from scratch, as
it were. That's a truly phenomenal feat, and if someone were doing that,
I doubt you'd have the sea serpents and so on popping up in the oceans
at random.

--
%%% Slothman slothman@*********.org %%%
%%% "Red sky at morning, time for a nap. %%%
%%% Red sky at night, time for a nap." - cat proverb, Dave McKean, Cages %%%
Message no. 69
From: "Arno R. Lehmann" <arlehma@***.NET>
Subject: Re: Blood Elves
Date: Thu, 6 Feb 1997 03:18:09 +0100
On Wed, 5 Feb 1997 01:36:04 -0005, Ashelock wrote:

> The theory that VITAS may have been engineered comes from elsewhere, but
>I'm not sure right now where. Put the two together... add some immortals
>and you get a lovely brew of conspiracy. Guess we know what happened to
>Obsidimen and T'skrang.

Don't know about these last, but after re-reading the SR2 book today, I
remembered someting.
When at the first time reading it, I was sure that the Seretech-Med
incident had something to do with UGE (Please don't try to get me to
quote anything, I've only got the german translation). It's in SR2,
just at the beginning of the history section.
But that's just my impression.

--
Arno
*********************************************************************
Be careful when replying to this mail - check the address !!!
(And send me a note when you notice that
the reply-to-address points to the list!)
*********************************************************************
Message no. 70
From: L Canthros <lobo1@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Blood Elves
Date: Wed, 5 Feb 1997 22:33:46 EST
On Wed, 5 Feb 1997 23:36:29 +0000 Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
writes:
<snipping again>
>Please don't let this be official....
>
>Please????
>
>Obsidimen and Tskrang in shadowrun would add that little bit of
>extra...
>Colour....

I don't think you even need to introduce them as PC races, just say that
the Mana level isn't high enough yet. That way, you don't have to worry
about un-needed complications to the gameworld and you don't have to kill
them off to prevent the munchies from getting to them:)

--
-Canthros
If any man wishes peace, canthros1@***.com
let him prepare for war. lobo1@****.com
--Roman proverb
http://members.aol.com/canthros1/
Message no. 71
From: L Canthros <lobo1@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Blood Elves)
Date: Wed, 5 Feb 1997 22:33:48 EST
On Wed, 5 Feb 1997 21:52:04 -0500 Brett Borger <bxb121@***.EDU> writes:
>>> Quick question (for anybody, not just Mike :), why did the
>>> magic start cycling? I've come up with a reason in my
>>> campaign, but I'd like to know what the official reason is
>>> (if there is one).
>>Why not? Everything else in nature is cyclical, so why not the mana
>flow?
>>View it like the tide, or the seasons, or like how the global
>temperature
>>slowly fluxuates...etc..etc..
>
>What I'm more curious about, is why is it so unpredictable? The only
>two
>shifts I've read about (ED downslope and SR unslope), the ED one ended
>too
>soon, and the SR one is going up too fast.....
>
>I mean, it keeps a nice "no one understands everything, not even the
>Immortal Elves (tm) [Elves are Cool(R)]" to it, but is Game
>Balance(tm)
>everything, or does FASA have something specific in mind?
>
I've heard it said that the mana cycle can be represented as a sine wave
with a variable frequency(?). As the wave progresses, the interval
decreases, so the mana upslope always rises faster than it took to for
the previous downslope to fall, and the downslope always falls faster
than it took the previous upslope to rise. In the meantime, the peaks and
sloughs of the wave become bigger, the sloughs deeper and the peaks
higher. So, when the SR upslope peaks, the magicians will be able to do
more with magic than could be done in ED (whether or not this will be a
noticeable increase or not is debatable), and the mana slough afterwards
(the Seventh World) will be lower than any other before it.

--
-Canthros
If any man wishes peace, canthros1@***.com
let him prepare for war. lobo1@****.com
--Roman proverb
http://members.aol.com/canthros1/
Message no. 72
From: "Sgt Pepper, Elfman & Danita" <elf-dani@******.COM>
Subject: Re: Blood Elves
Date: Wed, 5 Feb 1997 19:40:38 -0700
> From: Lady Jestyr <jestyr@*******.DIALIX.COM.AU>
>
> > As for the Windlings, they really don't work well as a PC... They
don't
> > mix with tech well enough. though our group looney has played one...
In
> > fact, it's now a playmate (read: Pet) for Bulls kids...:)
>
> I too have played one, though I don't know if I can yet lay claim to the
> title of group looney. :) They're fun to play - VERY fun - but I had
> problems with roleplaying. I *love* roleplaying, interacting with NPCs
> etc, and it was really difficult when you're a freak that shouldn't
> exist...
>
So that why I have such a lousy social life. 8-)

Sgt Pepper

Visit Elfman's World at http://www.spots.ab.ca/~elf-dani
or Danitaville at http://www.spots.ab.ca/~elf-dani/index.html
Message no. 73
From: Droopy <droopy@*******.NB.NET>
Subject: Re: Blood Elves
Date: Thu, 6 Feb 1997 01:30:39 +0000
> From: "Mike Mulvihill (FASA)" <FASAMike@***.COM>
> Subject: Re: Blood Elves

> >I would guess that FASA needed some way
> >to explain why there weren't any T'skrang or Obsidimen in SR. So they
> >came up with this "fix". That's my guess anyway. Maybe Mike will give
us
> >the real dirt.
>
> They died out an the end of the last magic cycle and didn't make it, plus
> being more mgically constructed than the other they took the lack of magic
> "harder" than the others. So therfore, no real fix. For the sake of
argument
> assume there were something like 20-25 different races and the Second Cycle
> and 8 survied that loss of magic now only 5 survived this next one...

Not having seen what started this and feeling nice enough to not
argue the survival point (kinda silly IMHO) I'll just forward the
generally accepted theory on the lack of other races that we've used.

The magic level just isn't high enough to manifest those races yet.
Let alone that the immortal elves had more than enough time to weed
out such creatures in their dormant state. And I'm sure they would.


--Droopy
droopy@**.net
Message no. 74
From: Droopy <droopy@*******.NB.NET>
Subject: Re: Blood Elves
Date: Thu, 6 Feb 1997 01:30:39 +0000
> From: Ashelock <woneal@*******.NET>
> Subject: Re: Blood Elves

> Hmm... not to start an arguement, but it seems to me there is a rather
> large hole in that logic. If there wasn't enough magic for t'skrang or
> obsidimen to survive, then explain corpselights? As I understand it these

I said that I wouldn't start into this, but now I feel forced to.
You're right, there is a hole in the logic, but you aren't looking
at it. There's no way to compare a namegiver with a magical
construct.

The hole is that the missing namegivers presumably survived the 3rd
world which was also low in magic.


--Droopy
droopy@**.net
Message no. 75
From: Droopy <droopy@*******.NB.NET>
Subject: Re: Blood Elves
Date: Thu, 6 Feb 1997 01:30:39 +0000
> From: Slothman <slothman@*********.ORG>
> Subject: Re: Blood Elves

> The interesting question is: where did the windlings come from?
> I doubt they'd be a result of UGE in humans, or they'd be more common.

They obviously came from the 4th world. I'm also sure that none of
the missing races are based upon human DNA.


--Droopy
droopy@**.net
Message no. 76
From: Droopy <droopy@*******.NB.NET>
Subject: Re: Blood Elves
Date: Thu, 6 Feb 1997 01:30:39 +0000
> From: Ashelock <woneal@*******.NET>
> Subject: Re: Blood Elves

> creatures. I asked Mike where corpselights came from however, because I
> don't see someone deliberately making the malign version of what used to
> be a benevolent creature.

Why not? I can think of a lot of reasons to do it, depending upon
who would be doing it.....


--Droopy
droopy@**.net
Message no. 77
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: Blood Elves
Date: Thu, 6 Feb 1997 11:52:16 +0100
Spike said on 23:36/ 5 Feb 97...

[no t'skrang or obsidimen in SR]
> Please don't let this be official....
>
> Please????
>
> Obsidimen and Tskrang in shadowrun would add that little bit of extra...
> Colour....

What's to stop you from putting them into SR even if Mike says they're
extinct? (Except maybe the game police...)

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Some bald fanatics try to make me buy their books.
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version 3.1:
GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+ PE
Y PGP- t(+) 5+ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
Message no. 78
From: Ashelock <woneal@*******.NET>
Subject: Re: Blood Elves
Date: Thu, 6 Feb 1997 08:30:27 -0005
On 5 Feb 97 at 17:43, Slothman wrote:
>
> I don't think anyone's up to creating those life forms from scratch, as
> it were. That's a truly phenomenal feat, and if someone were doing that,
> I doubt you'd have the sea serpents and so on popping up in the oceans at
> random.
It may or may not be likely, I'll leave that one to debate. It is one of
the conspiracy theories floating around. As for who could do it, certain
elves and dragons come to mind.
--

Ashelock
mailto:woneal@*******.net

"They say it's a brave new world we're building. I say they're right,
and we'll all have to be pretty brave to live in it."
Message no. 79
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Blood Elves
Date: Thu, 6 Feb 1997 13:33:28 +0000
|
|Spike said on 23:36/ 5 Feb 97...
|
|[no t'skrang or obsidimen in SR]
|> Please don't let this be official....
|>
|> Please????
|>
|> Obsidimen and Tskrang in shadowrun would add that little bit of extra...
|> Colour....
|
|What's to stop you from putting them into SR even if Mike says they're
|extinct? (Except maybe the game police...)

Exactly.... <He said, still cowering behind Gurths Sofa.....>

I think it's a bad idea to set anything in stone like that, because in years
to come, they might WANT to re-include the other races....

Who's to say what shadowrun will be like in the year 2100 for example.
(It could be still around in 40 years time....)
--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Message no. 80
From: Ashelock <woneal@*******.NET>
Subject: Re: Blood Elves
Date: Thu, 6 Feb 1997 08:44:46 -0005
On 6 Feb 97 at 1:30, Droopy wrote:

> > From: Ashelock <woneal@*******.NET>
> > Subject: Re: Blood Elves
>
> > Hmm... not to start an arguement, but it seems to me there is a
> > rather
> > large hole in that logic. If there wasn't enough magic for t'skrang or
> > obsidimen to survive, then explain corpselights? As I understand it
> > these
>
> I said that I wouldn't start into this, but now I feel forced to.
> You're right, there is a hole in the logic, but you aren't looking
> at it. There's no way to compare a namegiver with a magical
> construct.
Okay, Dragons then... hows that for highly magical creature that is a
name-giver? And btw, wouldn't a name-giver be more likely to survive than
a magical construct? Seems to me the magical construct would me more
vulnerable to the down cycle, which was kinda my point in mentioning
corpselights. I don't mean to nit-pick here, honestly, it's just that
Mike's explanation didn't make a whole lot of sense to me is all.
I also thought about gargoyles, both obsidimen and gargoyles are made of
stone (or something like it) and I doubt either could exist without magic.

>
> The hole is that the missing namegivers presumably survived the 3rd
> world which was also low in magic.
True and a good point. Actually it would seem there are several holes in
the logic. Starting to look kinda like swiss cheese. What else can we
think of as long as we're at it? If nothing else we can point them out to
Mike before they end up in a source book. Save Mike some problems later on
maybe.
--

Ashelock
mailto:woneal@*******.net

"They say it's a brave new world we're building. I say they're right,
and we'll all have to be pretty brave to live in it."
Message no. 81
From: MC23 <mc23@****.NET>
Subject: Re: Blood Elves
Date: Thu, 6 Feb 1997 09:43:53 -0500
Droopy,
>Let alone that the immortal elves had more than enough time to weed
>out such creatures in their dormant state. And I'm sure they would.

Really? Why would they?




Ancient cultures believed that names held great power, personal
names more so and they were guarded very closely. To protect themselves,
they answered to another name, because if another discovered their real
name, it could be used against them.
History repeats itself.
Welcome to the Digital Age.
I am MC23
Message no. 82
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@****.ORG>
Subject: Re: Blood Elves
Date: Thu, 6 Feb 1997 07:48:57 -0700
Spike wrote:
|
| Obsidimen and Tskrang in shadowrun would add that little bit of extra...
| Colour....

Maybe just most of 'em are gone (like 99.9%). But maybe a
few hardy ones have survived...

-David
--
/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\ dbuehrer@****.org /^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\
"His thoughts tumbled in his head, making and breaking
alliances like underpants in a dryer without Cling Free."
~~~http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm~~~~
Message no. 83
From: "Mike Mulvihill (FASA)" <FASAMike@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Blood Elves
Date: Thu, 6 Feb 1997 14:39:38 -0500
In a message dated 2/6/97 01:31:09 AM, Ashelock wrote:

> Hmm... not to start an arguement, but it seems to me there is a
rather
>large hole in that logic. If there wasn't enough magic for t'skrang or
>obsidimen to survive, then explain corpselights? As I understand it these
>creatures started out in the 4th World as magical constructs created by
>wizards to provide light. The Horrors warped them and turned them into
>something nasty during the Scourge. But they survived, reproduced and
>became a species. That, as I understand is the origin of corpselights.
>They are creatures of magic, made by magic and surviving on it. If they
>survived the down cycle, why not t'skrang? <puzzled look>

WOW! Where did you get this info...
Nothing we have ever said in SR matches what you have said here...sorry.

Have Fun!
Play Games!
Now Sorry He Ever Brought it Up!

Mike Mulvihill
Shadowrun Line Developer
FASA
www.fasa.com
Message no. 84
From: Slothman <slothman@*********.ORG>
Subject: Re: Blood Elves
Date: Thu, 6 Feb 1997 13:21:56 -0800
At 01:30 2/6/97 +0000, Droopy wrote:
>> From: Slothman <slothman@*********.ORG>
>> The interesting question is: where did the windlings come from?
>> I doubt they'd be a result of UGE in humans, or they'd be more common.

>They obviously came from the 4th world. I'm also sure that none of
>the missing races are based upon human DNA.

Allow me to clarify: the *interesting* question is where they came from
most recently. It's clear that sprites and windlings are the same.
The unclear part is where the sprites were the whole time magic was
inoperative, and how they got back to the world when magic came back
online. My guess is they arrived the same way the drakes and sea serpents
did: *poof*, they're there, in a remote location, the way the really
impressive pattern items in Earthdawn can't be destroyed.

Hmmm... imagine a scene in the dying days of Earthdawn, when the mana
is falling drastically and there are just a few powerful wizards left,
working desperate rituals to weave enough threads to the Pattern of a
race that might otherwise disappear forever, knowing that even though
they may not survive, the race will reappear when magic comes again...

--
%%% Slothman slothman@*********.org %%%
%%% "Red sky at morning, time for a nap. %%%
%%% Red sky at night, time for a nap." - cat proverb, Dave McKean, Cages %%%
Message no. 85
From: Tim Cooper <tpcooper@***.CSUPOMONA.EDU>
Subject: Re: Blood Elves
Date: Thu, 6 Feb 1997 17:12:39 -0800
On Wed, 5 Feb 1997, L Canthros wrote:

> On Wed, 5 Feb 1997 23:36:29 +0000 Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
> writes:
> <snipping again>
> >Please don't let this be official....
> >
> >Please????
> >
> >Obsidimen and Tskrang in shadowrun would add that little bit of
> >extra...
> >Colour....
>
> I don't think you even need to introduce them as PC races, just say that
> the Mana level isn't high enough yet. That way, you don't have to worry
> about un-needed complications to the gameworld and you don't have to kill
> them off to prevent the munchies from getting to them:)
>
> --
> -Canthros

Look at it this way: SR has done a good job of explaining the various
metahumans in a very "scientific" manner. How do you explain T'Skrang and
Obsidimen, which are quite obviously _not_ related to humans? If you
started introducing races that are _that_ far removed the game starts to
get a bit muddy. (Meta)human racism is bad enough, when they're all the
same basic species...how do you handle some big walking lizard, and even
worse something that's composed of living stone?!?!

It would just complicate the game and cause a greater "hard fantasy"
slant.

IMHO.

It might be cool to play some of them, but it just wouldn't be SHADOWRUN
(more like RIFTS)..

~Tim
Message no. 86
From: Tim Cooper <tpcooper@***.CSUPOMONA.EDU>
Subject: Re: Blood Elves
Date: Thu, 6 Feb 1997 16:39:17 -0800
On Wed, 5 Feb 1997, Brett Borger wrote:

> >sasquatches (everybody's always talking about those) and troglodytes? I
>
> I'm thinking of a humourous adventure where the Players run into a pack of
> Sasquatches, and have to discover where the bad guys went. Imagine C3-PO
> giving his story to the ewoks..... :)
>
> -=SwiftOne=-
>

Or have them run into a "tribe" of leshy while in some marshy area...At
least sasquatches are somewhat KNOWN as sentient creatures.

~Tim
Message no. 87
From: L Canthros <lobo1@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Blood Elves)
Date: Thu, 6 Feb 1997 21:44:50 EST
On Thu, 6 Feb 1997 14:10:57 -0700 David Buehrer <dbuehrer@****.ORG>
writes:
>Brett Borger wrote:
>|
>| Mike Mulvihill (FASA) enlightened us with these words of wisdom:
>| >The mana level is rising at a regular rate in SR...indidivual
>places rise at
>| >their own rate (some faster others slower) but the over all mana
>level has
>| >been increasing at a standard rate not rising too fast. Some may
>claim it's
>| >not rising fast enough and try to manipulate it...but that another
>story.
>|
>| So wait....why has everyone been saying the mana level is too high
>for so
>| soon? Aren't the Bug spirits and Horrors showing up too soon? (I
>know the
>| bit about the hot spots, but the tone of the info, particularly
>Worlds
>| without End, is that everything is still a few thousand years
>early....)
>
>Maybe the Bugs' and Horrors' ability to show up doesn't have
>anything to do with the level of mana or magic...
>
>Yes, they're coming early, but not for the reasons you
>think they are. :)
>
Just as importantly, how do we now that they are? So the IEC says they
are, so what? They've only lived through _one_ mana cycle, this is at
least the third upswing. So, IMO, one time through is not enough to base
an assumption on. OTOH, if the dragons have concurred with them (I
haven't heard that they did, but...), that could change things (but only
a little:)

--
-Canthros
If any man wishes peace, canthros1@***.com
let him prepare for war. lobo1@****.com
--Roman proverb
http://members.aol.com/canthros1/
Message no. 88
From: Brett Borger <bxb121@***.EDU>
Subject: Re: Blood Elves
Date: Fri, 7 Feb 1997 01:00:36 -0500
Tim Cooper enlightened us with these words of wisdom:
>Or have them run into a "tribe" of leshy while in some marshy area...At
>least sasquatches are somewhat KNOWN as sentient creatures.

"somewhat" doesn't include my players....all of whom _HAVE_ the main
book....but for some unknown reason never _READ_ it...:)
-=SwiftOne=-

(Besides...knowing they are sentient doesn't help them communicate one litle
bit.)
Message no. 89
From: L Canthros <lobo1@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Blood Elves
Date: Thu, 6 Feb 1997 22:15:37 EST
On Thu, 6 Feb 1997 17:12:39 -0800 Tim Cooper <tpcooper@***.CSUPOMONA.EDU>
writes:
<snip>
>Look at it this way: SR has done a good job of explaining the various
>metahumans in a very "scientific" manner. How do you explain T'Skrang
>and
>Obsidimen, which are quite obviously _not_ related to humans? If you
>started introducing races that are _that_ far removed the game starts
>to
>get a bit muddy. (Meta)human racism is bad enough, when they're all
>the
>same basic species...how do you handle some big walking lizard, and
>even
>worse something that's composed of living stone?!?!
>

Well, one reason why they don't (yet) exist in my game (another is that I
don't have any ED stuff so that I can convert them:).

>It would just complicate the game and cause a greater "hard fantasy"
>slant.

I don't mind pure fantasy, but I think that's what ED is
about...Shadowrun for people who like D&D (clarification-a pure(r)
fantasy setting which remains partially connected to SR)

>
>IMHO.
>
>It might be cool to play some of them, but it just wouldn't be
>SHADOWRUN
>(more like RIFTS)..
>

Well, it would be a neat one-shot:)


--
-Canthros
If any man wishes peace, canthros1@***.com
let him prepare for war. lobo1@****.com
--Roman proverb
http://members.aol.com/canthros1/
Message no. 90
From: L Canthros <lobo1@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Blood Elves
Date: Thu, 6 Feb 1997 22:26:46 EST
On Fri, 7 Feb 1997 01:00:36 -0500 Brett Borger <bxb121@***.EDU> writes:
>Tim Cooper enlightened us with these words of wisdom:
>>Or have them run into a "tribe" of leshy while in some marshy
>area...At
>>least sasquatches are somewhat KNOWN as sentient creatures.
>
>"somewhat" doesn't include my players....all of whom _HAVE_ the main
>book....but for some unknown reason never _READ_ it...:)
>-=SwiftOne=-
>
>(Besides...knowing they are sentient doesn't help them communicate one
>litle
>bit.)
>
Do you have a player who has to ask you questions about something they
could have looked up in their own copy of the SRII manual? Do you have
long, drawn-out arguments with this player over how a rule is interpreted
and what a rule means? Does this player constantly complain about how you
do your job (as GM)?

If you could answer yes to those three questions, imagine how you'd do
this WITHOUT having an SRII book to refer to (not just a copy of the
black book, no books at all. period.). I was in that position for a year
(or thereabouts, I think). Worst of all, I was usually right!

Best part was how he constantly asked me for how certain stuff worked
("How do you run a Combat Turn?", for instance) when all he needed do was
open the book laying in front of him:) Okay, gripe-mode off:)

--
-Canthros-the-working-from-memory-with-a-minus-one-to-his-TN:)-shapeshifter-mage
If any man wishes peace, canthros1@***.com
let him prepare for war. lobo1@****.com
--Roman proverb
http://members.aol.com/canthros1/
Message no. 91
From: Brett Borger <bxb121@***.EDU>
Subject: Re: Blood Elves
Date: Fri, 7 Feb 1997 01:36:38 -0500
>Do you have a player who has to ask you questions about something they
>could have looked up in their own copy of the SRII manual? Do you have
...
>open the book laying in front of him:) Okay, gripe-mode off:)

<smirk>
_MY_ players take my word for it.
</smirk>
-=SwiftOne=-
Message no. 92
From: Ashelock <woneal@*******.NET>
Subject: Re: Blood Elves
Date: Fri, 7 Feb 1997 00:31:50 -0005
On 6 Feb 97 at 14:39, Mike Mulvihill (FASA) wrote:

> In a message dated 2/6/97 01:31:09 AM, Ashelock wrote:
>
> > Hmm... not to start an arguement, but it seems to me there is a
> rather
> >large hole in that logic. If there wasn't enough magic for t'skrang or
> >obsidimen to survive, then explain corpselights? As I understand it
> >these creatures started out in the 4th World as magical constructs
> >created by wizards to provide light. The Horrors warped them and turned
> >them into something nasty during the Scourge. But they survived,
> >reproduced and became a species. That, as I understand is the origin of
> >corpselights. They are creatures of magic, made by magic and surviving
> >on it. If they survived the down cycle, why not t'skrang? <puzzled
> >look>
>
> WOW! Where did you get this info...
> Nothing we have ever said in SR matches what you have said here...sorry.

Info in, I believe it was the Horror's sourcebook for ED, correlated
with info from Worlds without End (the uses of corpselights by the Seelie
court as personal light sources), along with the nearly identical
descriptions (appearance) of both the corpselight from SR and the
aforementioned creature from ED. I can get all the info together and
present here or just give you the book/page reference if you prefer. I'm
not saying I'm right, just that from everything I've read this is my best
educated guess. Are you saying the two creatures aren't the same?

>
> Have Fun!
> Play Games!
> Now Sorry He Ever Brought it Up!
Don't be, it's just a game. Think of us as a room full of free
editors/idea checkers/researchers. Or a room full of monkey's pounding
away on keyboards, whichever makes you laugh the most. :)

<Ashelock wonders off signing "Hey Hey were the Monkees and people say we
monkey around... but were to busy singing... to bring anybody down..">
--

Ashelock
mailto:woneal@*******.net

"They say it's a brave new world we're building. I say they're right,
and we'll all have to be pretty brave to live in it."
Message no. 93
From: Mark Steedman <M.J.Steedman@***.RGU.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Blood Elves
Date: Fri, 7 Feb 1997 13:33:22 GMT
Mike Mulvihill writes
> In a message dated 2/6/97 01:31:09 AM, Ashelock wrote:
>
> > Hmm... not to start an arguement, but it seems to me there is a
> rather
> >large hole in that logic. If there wasn't enough magic for t'skrang or
> >obsidimen to survive, then explain corpselights? As I understand it these
> >creatures started out in the 4th World as magical constructs created by
> >wizards to provide light. The Horrors warped them and turned them into
> >something nasty during the Scourge. But they survived, reproduced and
> >became a species. That, as I understand is the origin of corpselights.
> >They are creatures of magic, made by magic and surviving on it. If they
> >survived the down cycle, why not t'skrang? <puzzled look>
>
> WOW! Where did you get this info...
Its out of ED someplace, i found this out from my ED GM. as someone
said Horrosrs book is the most likely. If not try creature of
Barsaive.


> Nothing we have ever said in SR matches what you have said here...sorry.
>
I certainly haven't seen anything SR that does.
It is quite debateable if the creatures seen in SR that look like
corpselights are the same thing or not. And as the the elves using
them, well magicians made them in the first place so if they died out
the immortal elves probably just made some more. Life creation like
that is a way high circle Nethermancer spell but way within
Harlequin and co's abilities even at SR magic levels.

Mark
Message no. 94
From: Droopy <droopy@*******.NB.NET>
Subject: Re: Blood Elves
Date: Fri, 7 Feb 1997 13:56:34 +0000
> From: Ashelock <woneal@*******.NET>
> Subject: Re: Blood Elves
> > at it. There's no way to compare a namegiver with a magical
> > construct.
> Okay, Dragons then... hows that for highly magical creature that is a
> name-giver? And btw, wouldn't a name-giver be more likely to survive than

Re-read my post....

> a magical construct? Seems to me the magical construct would me more
> vulnerable to the down cycle, which was kinda my point in mentioning
> corpselights. I don't mean to nit-pick here, honestly, it's just that

No more so than excalibur or any other magical construct that has
survived, they aren't neccesarily living in the same sense of the
word.

> I also thought about gargoyles, both obsidimen and gargoyles are made of
> stone (or something like it) and I doubt either could exist without magic.

You're right on both counts, but that doesn't make them the same
thing.

> think of as long as we're at it? If nothing else we can point them out to
> Mike before they end up in a source book. Save Mike some problems later on

I don't see Mike being stupid enough to put that in a sourcebook.
Why explain an ommision?


--Droopy
droopy@**.net
Message no. 95
From: Droopy <droopy@*******.NB.NET>
Subject: Re: Blood Elves
Date: Fri, 7 Feb 1997 13:56:34 +0000
> From: Slothman <slothman@*********.ORG>
> Subject: Re: Blood Elves

> Allow me to clarify: the *interesting* question is where they came from
> most recently. It's clear that sprites and windlings are the same.
> The unclear part is where the sprites were the whole time magic was
> inoperative, and how they got back to the world when magic came back
> online. My guess is they arrived the same way the drakes and sea serpents
> did: *poof*, they're there, in a remote location, the way the really
> impressive pattern items in Earthdawn can't be destroyed.

Dunno, my guess is that they've survived in captivity this long.
Remember, no one has seen a free sprite, only 2 captives.


--Droopy
droopy@**.net
Message no. 96
From: Droopy <droopy@*******.NB.NET>
Subject: Re: Blood Elves
Date: Fri, 7 Feb 1997 13:56:34 +0000
> From: MC23 <mc23@****.NET>
> Subject: Re: Blood Elves

> >Let alone that the immortal elves had more than enough time to weed
> >out such creatures in their dormant state. And I'm sure they would.
>
> Really? Why would they?

I can think of several possibilities, but suffice it to say that we
know the elves were hunting down dragons during the low mana cycle.
Why not the others as well?


--Droopy
droopy@**.net
Message no. 97
From: Droopy <droopy@*******.NB.NET>
Subject: Re: Blood Elves
Date: Fri, 7 Feb 1997 14:48:12 +0000
> From: Ashelock <woneal@*******.NET>
> Subject: Re: Blood Elves

> > WOW! Where did you get this info...
> > Nothing we have ever said in SR matches what you have said here...sorry.
>
> Info in, I believe it was the Horror's sourcebook for ED, correlated
> with info from Worlds without End (the uses of corpselights by the Seelie

You can't just assume that two things are the same because they
appear to be the same. I'm sure that there are creatures that have
been mis-named as ED creatures because the real nasty fragger just
hasn't shown up yet. Never, ever, assume you know what your opponent
can and can't do based on looks/name.


--Droopy
droopy@**.net
Message no. 98
From: Droopy <droopy@*******.NB.NET>
Subject: Re: Blood Elves)
Date: Fri, 7 Feb 1997 14:48:12 +0000
> From: L Canthros <lobo1@****.COM>
> Subject: Re: Blood Elves)

> Just as importantly, how do we now that they are? So the IEC says they
> are, so what? They've only lived through _one_ mana cycle, this is at
> least the third upswing. So, IMO, one time through is not enough to base
> an assumption on. OTOH, if the dragons have concurred with them (I
> haven't heard that they did, but...), that could change things (but only
> a little:)

I'm pretty sure that at least one known immortal is experiencing her
3rd cycle. I'm also sure that 'D' <RIP> would have shared his
knowledge with others.


--Droopy
droopy@**.net
Message no. 99
From: L Canthros <lobo1@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Blood Elves)
Date: Fri, 7 Feb 1997 18:40:03 EST
On Fri, 7 Feb 1997 14:48:12 +0000 Droopy <droopy@*******.NB.NET> writes:
>> From: L Canthros <lobo1@****.COM>
>> Subject: Re: Blood Elves)
>
>> Just as importantly, how do we now that they are? So the IEC says
>they
>> are, so what? They've only lived through _one_ mana cycle, this is
>at
>> least the third upswing. So, IMO, one time through is not enough to
>base
>> an assumption on. OTOH, if the dragons have concurred with them (I
>> haven't heard that they did, but...), that could change things (but
>only
>> a little:)
>
>I'm pretty sure that at least one known immortal is experiencing her
>3rd cycle. I'm also sure that 'D' <RIP> would have shared his
>knowledge with others.
>
>
Well, I managed to goof again 'cause I wasn't working with complete
knowledge. I'd not realized that the other races (those other than elves)
had really existed before the 4th world rolled around...my fault...even
so, one mana cycle (one up and one down swing) or even two (dragons and
REALLY old Immortals) isn't enough to base this on...but that's my
opinion, and I don't know how valid it would be on the subject:)

--
-Canthros
If any man wishes peace, canthros1@***.com
let him prepare for war. lobo1@****.com
--Roman proverb
http://members.aol.com/canthros1/
Message no. 100
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Blood Elves
Date: Sat, 8 Feb 1997 01:36:06 +0000
|
|> From: MC23 <mc23@****.NET>
|> Subject: Re: Blood Elves
|
|> >Let alone that the immortal elves had more than enough time to weed
|> >out such creatures in their dormant state. And I'm sure they would.
|>
|> Really? Why would they?
|
|I can think of several possibilities, but suffice it to say that we
|know the elves were hunting down dragons during the low mana cycle.
|Why not the others as well?

And Urdli tried to kill off a dragon nest in "Never Trust an Elf"...
Remember...

--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Message no. 101
From: L Canthros <lobo1@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Blood Elves)
Date: Fri, 7 Feb 1997 21:04:17 EST
On Fri, 7 Feb 1997 18:40:03 EST L Canthros <lobo1@****.COM> writes:
<snip>
>Well, I managed to goof again 'cause I wasn't working with complete
>knowledge. I'd not realized that the other races (those other than
>elves) had really existed before the 4th world rolled around...my
^^^^^
I meant "dragons" not elves. I hate it when that happens.

>fault...even so, one mana cycle (one up and one down swing) or even
>two (dragons and REALLY old Immortals) isn't enough to base this
>on...but that's my opinion, and I don't know how valid it would be on
>the subject:)
--
-Canthros
If any man wishes peace, canthros1@***.com
let him prepare for war. lobo1@****.com
--Roman proverb
http://members.aol.com/canthros1/
Message no. 102
From: "Mike Mulvihill (FASA)" <FASAMike@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Blood Elves
Date: Mon, 10 Feb 1997 13:17:37 -0500
In a message dated 2/7/97 05:35:48 AM, Ashelock wrote:

<Snip the corpselight will-of-the wisp statement>

>Are you saying the two creatures aren't the same?

Evidence but not proof.

Have Fun!
Play Games!
Don't Believe Everything You Read!

Mike Mulvihill
Shadowrun Line Developer
FASA
www.fasa.com
Message no. 103
From: Ashelock <woneal@*******.NET>
Subject: Re: Blood Elves
Date: Tue, 11 Feb 1997 06:03:03 -0005
On 10 Feb 97 at 13:17, Mike Mulvihill (FASA) wrote:

> In a message dated 2/7/97 05:35:48 AM, Ashelock wrote:
>
> <Snip the corpselight will-of-the wisp statement>
>
> >Are you saying the two creatures aren't the same?
>
> Evidence but not proof.
Fair enough. Guess only time will tell ;)
--

Ashelock
mailto:woneal@*******.net

"They say it's a brave new world we're building. I say they're right,
and we'll all have to be pretty brave to live in it."
Message no. 104
From: Gurth gurth@******.nl
Subject: Blood elves
Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 12:01:17 +0200
According to Rand Ratinac, at 18:25 on 14 Sep 00, the word on the street
was...

> Which brings to mind a question - out of the known
> immortal elves (the Princes of Tir Tairngire,
> Harlequin, etc.), who do we think were actually blood elves?

Aithne Oakforest for one (you have to be pretty stupid not to get the clue
in the Tir Tairngire sourcebook :) and Jenna Ni'Fairra equally obviously.
For the rest, it's mainly guesswork, I would say, as I don't think (m)any
clear statements exist.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
It was a warning shot that missed.
-> NAGEE Editor * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://plastic.dumpshock.com <-

GC3.1: GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+@ UL P L+ E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+
PE Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X+ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 105
From: Maelwys wraith@************.com
Subject: Blood elves
Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 07:22:41 -0500
-----Original Message-----
From: Gurth <gurth@******.nl>
Subject: Blood elves


According to Rand Ratinac, at 18:25 on 14 Sep 00, the word on the street
was...

> Which brings to mind a question - out of the known
> immortal elves (the Princes of Tir Tairngire,
> Harlequin, etc.), who do we think were actually blood elves?

Aithne Oakforest for one (you have to be pretty stupid not to get the clue
in the Tir Tairngire sourcebook :) and Jenna Ni'Fairra equally obviously.
For the rest, it's mainly guesswork, I would say, as I don't think (m)any
clear statements exist.

Another rather obvious clue is that fact that Oakforest is listed as a Blood
Warder in the Blood Wood Sourcebook :) It's probably the only one that IS
that obvious.


Maelwys
Message no. 106
From: Cole, Wade A. wcole@********.com
Subject: Blood elves
Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 09:43:35 -0500
I'm new to the list and I've never played Earthdawn (where I'm assuming this
is coming from) so excuse my ignorance when I ask, "What is a blood elf?"

-----Original Message-----
From: Maelwys [mailto:wraith@************.com]
Sent: Friday, September 15, 2000 7:23 AM
To: shadowrn@*********.com
Subject: Re: Blood elves


-----Original Message-----
From: Gurth <gurth@******.nl>
Subject: Blood elves


According to Rand Ratinac, at 18:25 on 14 Sep 00, the word on the street
was...

> Which brings to mind a question - out of the known
> immortal elves (the Princes of Tir Tairngire,
> Harlequin, etc.), who do we think were actually blood elves?

Aithne Oakforest for one (you have to be pretty stupid not to get the clue
in the Tir Tairngire sourcebook :) and Jenna Ni'Fairra equally obviously.
For the rest, it's mainly guesswork, I would say, as I don't think (m)any
clear statements exist.

Another rather obvious clue is that fact that Oakforest is listed as a Blood
Warder in the Blood Wood Sourcebook :) It's probably the only one that IS
that obvious.


Maelwys


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Message no. 107
From: Nexx nexx@********.net
Subject: Blood elves
Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 10:21:43 -0500
----- Original Message -----
From: "Cole, Wade A." <wcole@********.com>

> I'm new to the list and I've never played Earthdawn (where I'm assuming
this
> is coming from) so excuse my ignorance when I ask, "What is a blood elf?"

Long time ago, on a continent far, far away (read: Central Europe). In a
previous time of magic, there was an event called The Scourge, where a bunch
of evil, powerful free spirits completely trashed the world for a very long
time, corrupting anyone they could get their hands on. Most of the world
hid out in "kaers"... fortress-cities protected from the Horrors by elemenal
magic. The Elves of Wyrm Wood, however, created their kaer of wood.

Well, soon enough, the wooden kaer began to fail, and the elves needed a way
to keep from being corrupted. They had learned that a Horror
couldn't/wouldn't corrupt someone already in deep pain, so they preformed a
powerful ritual: the Ritual of Thorns. Out of every elf's body, bursting
through the skin and causing great anguish, grew long thorns, glistening
with blood. Many other creatures that the elves kept near them underwent
similar, horrible changes, most of them driving the creatures insane with
pain.

Blood elves are those who underwent that process. Likely, during the time
of Low Magic (between the end of the 4th age and the Beginning of the 6th in
2011), the Ritual wore off, so their thorns receded. However, the memory
will likely always be with the immortal elves who suffered through it.

***
Nexx
a.k.a. Mark Hall
***
"If I lose the light of the sun, I will write by candlelight, moonlight, no
light. If I lose paper and ink I will write in blood on forgotten walls. I
will write always. I will capture nights all over the world and bring them
to you."
-Henry Rollins
***
http://www-personal.interkan.net/~nexx/index.html
Updated 9-8-2000
Message no. 108
From: Gurth gurth@******.nl
Subject: Blood elves
Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 19:24:44 +0200
According to Cole, Wade A., at 9:43 on 15 Sep 00, the word on the street
was...

> I'm new to the list

Welcome! Please read the FAQ, located at the URL in my signature, paying
particular attention to the section about replying to other peoples'
messages.

> and I've never played Earthdawn (where I'm assuming this is coming from)
> so excuse my ignorance when I ask, "What is a blood elf?"

They're from Earthdawn (as you already guessed) and are elves who
underwent a magical ritual to make them unappetizing to the Horrors (big
nasty monsters from astral space). The ritual makes thorns grow from
inside the elves' flesh, putting them in a constant state of pain. Horrors
often feed off pain, but mostly on that which they induce themselves; the
result is that most Horrors don't bother with blood elves, because there's
not much they can do to make them feel worse than they already do.

There have been rumors that the ritual will be reactivated when the mana
level in SR reaches a certain level, but judging by Mike Mulvihill's
feelings toward SR-ED crossovers, this will probably be left unconfirmed
and likely also undenied).

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Message no. 109
From: Maelwys wraith@************.com
Subject: Blood elves
Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 13:23:57 -0500
From: Gurth <gurth@******.nl>
Date: Friday, September 15, 2000 12:25 PM
Subject: RE: Blood elves


There have been rumors that the ritual will be reactivated when the mana
level in SR reaches a certain level, but judging by Mike Mulvihill's
feelings toward SR-ED crossovers, this will probably be left unconfirmed
and likely also undenied).


New Post underneath

Bloody Hell, stupid OE isn't adding the slashes infront of the messages I've
replied to,

Not to mention Undone, since Mike probably doesn't want to add any new
links. Though would the ritual really survive? I mean, it's done by
introducing a plant's pattern into a Name-Giver one...probably the drop in
mana severed the ties...

Maelwys

www.earthdawn.com/irc Not much there yet, but we're working on it! :)
Message no. 110
From: Nexx nexx@********.net
Subject: Blood elves
Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 13:23:31 -0500
----- Original Message -----
From: "Maelwys" <wraith@************.com>

> Not to mention Undone, since Mike probably doesn't want to add any new
> links. Though would the ritual really survive? I mean, it's done by
> introducing a plant's pattern into a Name-Giver one...probably the drop in
> mana severed the ties...

Not necessarily... after all, one could argue that once it becomes part of
the Pattern, it would take more than a temporary drop in magic levels to
erase it... especially for a pattern that has to be strong enough to resist
eternity.
Message no. 111
From: Yiannakos yiannako@*******.edu
Subject: Blood elves
Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 14:27:34 -0400
Maelwys wrote:

> Not to mention Undone, since Mike probably doesn't want to add any new
> links. Though would the ritual really survive? I mean, it's done by
> introducing a plant's pattern into a Name-Giver one...probably the drop in
> mana severed the ties...
>
> Maelwys

They hope.

---Dave ('s not here man)

(I don't know if it's a compliment or not, but spell-check wanted to
change your name to Maleness...)
Message no. 112
From: Phil Smith phil_urbanhell@*******.com
Subject: Blood elves
Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 18:39:55 GMT
>From: "Nexx" <nexx@********.net>
> > Not to mention Undone, since Mike probably doesn't want to add any new
> > links. Though would the ritual really survive? I mean, it's done by
> > introducing a plant's pattern into a Name-Giver one...probably the drop
>in
> > mana severed the ties...
>
>Not necessarily... after all, one could argue that once it becomes part of
>the Pattern, it would take more than a temporary drop in magic levels to
>erase it... especially for a pattern that has to be strong enough to resist
>eternity.

Didn't I read somewhere about research being done in one of the Tirs on
removing the thorns genes from elven children. I think it was on the ED/SR
Crossover site.

Speaking of which, Blood Wood in ED is in sothern Germany, how did it get to
Ireland/North West America?

Phil

Let us assume we have a can opener.
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Message no. 113
From: Nexx nexx@********.net
Subject: Blood elves
Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 14:01:03 -0500
----- Original Message -----
From: "Phil Smith" <phil_urbanhell@*******.com>

> Speaking of which, Blood Wood in ED is in sothern Germany, how did it get
to
> Ireland/North West America?

Blood Wood itself hasn't moved... rather, the Blood Elves have. Thus, some
of the IE who were part of the kingdom in Blood Wood are now in Tir
Tairngire, while others are in Tir na'nOg. Blood Wood itself is likely
closer to Poland (though I don't have a handy atlas to do location
comparisons), and IIRC, there's a section of desert in Poland that used to
be a forest...
Message no. 114
From: vocenoctum@****.com vocenoctum@****.com
Subject: Blood elves
Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 20:00:37 -0400
On Fri, 15 Sep 2000 12:01:17 +0200 "Gurth" <gurth@******.nl> writes:
> According to Rand Ratinac, at 18:25 on 14 Sep 00, the word on the
> street
> was...
>
> > Which brings to mind a question - out of the known
> > immortal elves (the Princes of Tir Tairngire,
> > Harlequin, etc.), who do we think were actually blood elves?
>
> Aithne Oakforest for one (you have to be pretty stupid not to get
> the clue
> in the Tir Tairngire sourcebook :) and Jenna Ni'Fairra equally
> obviously.
> For the rest, it's mainly guesswork, I would say, as I don't think
> (m)any
> clear statements exist.

Just a note, Jenna's painting is of her mother, Alachia, the Blood Quenn.
It's not established when she was born, though Worlds Without End has no
mention of her in Alachia's "past lives" so it might be a modern age
birth.



Vocenoctum
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Message no. 115
From: vocenoctum@****.com vocenoctum@****.com
Subject: Blood elves
Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 20:06:03 -0400
On Fri, 15 Sep 2000 18:39:55 GMT "Phil Smith"
<phil_urbanhell@*******.com> writes:
> Didn't I read somewhere about research being done in one of the Tirs
> on
> removing the thorns genes from elven children. I think it was on
> the ED/SR
> Crossover site.
>

In Blood Wood, they were trying to reverse it maybe. Alachia didn't want
to since it would cost her power...
A side note: the ritual had two parts, the personal part which implanted
the thorn spirit into the person, and the second major part, that reNamed
the Wood to Blood Wood, which is fed by the blood of the Elves. The
personal ritual can be reversed, but it would spell the destruction of
the Blood Wood.

In the 5th age, it wouldn't matter, the wood was gone.

> Speaking of which, Blood Wood in ED is in sothern Germany, how did
> it get to
> Ireland/North West America?
>

It didn't, the Wood is gone, stop living in the past :-)
Shosara however, was Ireland. Wyrm/Blood Wood might have been teh "Heart"
of the elven nation, but it wasn't the only one.

Sereatha, the City of Spires, where most of the IE's seem to come from,
was more in Latvia by my math. (I had to use Math, since my geography
skills got lost)


Vocenoctum
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Message no. 116
From: Sinabian@***.com Sinabian@***.com
Subject: Blood elves
Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 20:56:50 EDT
In a message dated 9/15/00 12:40:33 PM Mountain Daylight Time,
phil_urbanhell@*******.com writes:

<< Speaking of which, Blood Wood in ED is in sothern Germany, how did it get
to
Ireland/North West America? >>


If somebody wanted to do a crossover with that and be location-specific there
is or at least was a Germany sourcebook for SR. Second Edition. It may still
be out. I'd say check out the FASA page.
Message no. 117
From: .stefan stefan@*****.org
Subject: Blood elves
Date: Sat, 16 Sep 2000 03:40:37 +0200
><< Speaking of which, Blood Wood in ED is in sothern Germany, how did it get
>to
> Ireland/North West America? >>
>
>
>If somebody wanted to do a crossover with that and be location-specific there
>is or at least was a Germany sourcebook for SR. Second Edition. It may still
>be out. I'd say check out the FASA page.

Yep, don't know if it is in print any longer but i know of atleast two
store that have multiple copies available of that books as late as tuesday
this week, and as i recall they have been on that bookshelf forever.

But there is no mentioning of the Blood Wood in the Germany sourcebook,
atleast I don't recall that. There is the black forest but that ain't the same.

.stefan


------------------------------------------------------------------------
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------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Message no. 118
From: Josh Harrison mataxes@****.net
Subject: Blood elves
Date: Sat, 16 Sep 2000 00:30:59 -0400
----- Original Message -----
From: Nexx <nexx@********.net>
> Blood Wood itself is likely
> closer to Poland (though I don't have a handy atlas to do location
> comparisons), and IIRC, there's a section of desert in Poland that used to
> be a forest...

Actually, Blood Wood is in the Ukraine -- centered around the area where the
Chernobyl nuclear plant suffered its little setback a few years ago.
Interestingly enough, Chernobyl translated from the Russian is (IIRC)
"Wormwood".

Kind of makes you think, doesn't it?

-- Josh
Message no. 119
From: Josh Harrison mataxes@****.net
Subject: Blood elves
Date: Sat, 16 Sep 2000 00:39:21 -0400
----- Original Message -----
From: <vocenoctum@****.com>
> Shosara however, was Ireland. Wyrm/Blood Wood might have been teh "Heart"
> of the elven nation, but it wasn't the only one.

Incorrect. Shosara is in fact located way up north in present-day Finland.
No official information has been published on the 4th World British Islands.

> Sereatha, the City of Spires, where most of the IE's seem to come from,
> was more in Latvia by my math. (I had to use Math, since my geography
> skills got lost)

Sereatha is located on the coast of modern-day Germany, just east of where
Denmark sticks up.

This info is found in the "Theran Empire" sourcebook for Earthdawn.

-- Josh
Message no. 120
From: Tobias Diekershoff Tobias.D@********.de
Subject: Blood elves
Date: Sat, 16 Sep 2000 09:32:39 +0100
On 16 Sep 00 at 3:40, .stefan wrote:

>
> But there is no mentioning of the Blood Wood in the Germany sourcebook,
> atleast I don't recall that. There is the black forest but that ain't the same.
>
No it isn't. It is simply a wood, which called blackforest, because
it was a very thick one, and therefor there was just a little bit of
light (IIRC).

Tobias
---------
http://home.t-online.de/home/tobias.d
Message no. 121
From: Phil Smith phil_urbanhell@*******.com
Subject: Blood elves
Date: Sat, 16 Sep 2000 18:06:49 GMT
>From: Sinabian@***.com
><< Speaking of which, Blood Wood in ED is in sothern Germany, how did it
>get
>to
> Ireland/North West America? >>
>
>
>If somebody wanted to do a crossover with that and be location-specific
>there
>is or at least was a Germany sourcebook for SR. Second Edition. It may
>still
>be out. I'd say check out the FASA page.

I have the Germany Sourcebook, and I would put Blood Wood near where the
Troll Kingdom Of The Black Forest currently is. Germany is pre-ED though so
I sincerely doubt FASA (or didn't someone else make it and FASA just
translated it?) had any notion of Blood Wood when they wrote it.

Phil

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Message no. 122
From: vocenoctum@****.com vocenoctum@****.com
Subject: Blood elves
Date: Sat, 16 Sep 2000 20:46:23 -0400
On Sat, 16 Sep 2000 00:39:21 -0400 "Josh Harrison" <mataxes@****.net>
writes:
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <vocenoctum@****.com>
> > Shosara however, was Ireland. Wyrm/Blood Wood might have been teh
> "Heart"
> > of the elven nation, but it wasn't the only one.
>
> Incorrect. Shosara is in fact located way up north in present-day
> Finland.
> No official information has been published on the 4th World British
> Islands.
>

Actually, I looked to see where I got teh Shosara info from, couldn't
find it, so I'm not sure where it is, except that it's "directly North of
the Forests Heart on the Gwynn Sea..." The Forest's Heart is in the Blood
Wood/Wyrm Wood, so, maybe Belarus for Shosara, though that might be too
close.
It's not as distant as Sereatha.
The Death's Sea is the Black Sea, placing Barsaive in teh Ukraine

> > Sereatha, the City of Spires, where most of the IE's seem to come
> from,
> > was more in Latvia by my math. (I had to use Math, since my
> geography
> > skills got lost)
>
> Sereatha is located on the coast of modern-day Germany, just east of
> where
> Denmark sticks up.
>
> This info is found in the "Theran Empire" sourcebook for Earthdawn.

Check the map up against the Latvian Coast line. The Gulf of Riga is
pretty visible, as well as the island of Sa aremaa.
(oh, and I'm reading that from the Map Quest through AOL, so if I get any
name wrong, don't curse me :-)

Sereatha is pretty clear as Latvia. Shosara isn't on the Thera map, so
I'm not sure of it's exact placing.


Vocenoctum
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Message no. 123
From: Gurth gurth@******.nl
Subject: Blood elves
Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2000 12:37:46 +0200
According to Phil Smith, at 18:06 on 16 Sep 00, the word on the street
was...

> I have the Germany Sourcebook, and I would put Blood Wood near where the
> Troll Kingdom Of The Black Forest currently is. Germany is pre-ED though so
> I sincerely doubt FASA (or didn't someone else make it and FASA just
> translated it?) had any notion of Blood Wood when they wrote it.

It was written by FanPro, a German company that markets (among plenty of
other stuff) German translations of SR. FASA translated it, but left out
some bits that are in the original; if you speak German, I found it's
better to have the original than the translation.

As for the location of Blood Wood, compare a map of Barsaive with one of
central and eastern Europe. Barsaive is in the Ukraine (sp?), which puts
Blood Wood roughly somewhere on the line Kharkov-Moscow, probably closer
to Kharkov than to Moscow. The Black Forest in southern Germany is, at a
guess, 1500 to 2000 km too far west...

--
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Message no. 124
From: Ahrain Drigar Ahrain_Drigar@*******.com
Subject: Blood elves
Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2000 17:26:26 -0400
----- Original Message -----
From: Josh Harrison <mataxes@****.net>
Subject: Re: Blood elves


> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <vocenoctum@****.com>
> > Shosara however, was Ireland. Wyrm/Blood Wood might have been teh
"Heart"
> > of the elven nation, but it wasn't the only one.
>
> Incorrect. Shosara is in fact located way up north in present-day Finland.
> No official information has been published on the 4th World British
Islands.
>
> > Sereatha, the City of Spires, where most of the IE's seem to come from,
> > was more in Latvia by my math. (I had to use Math, since my geography
> > skills got lost)
>
> Sereatha is located on the coast of modern-day Germany, just east of where
> Denmark sticks up.
>
> This info is found in the "Theran Empire" sourcebook for Earthdawn.
>
> -- Josh


HA!, thought you got rid of me.......mmwwaaahhaahahahaa!!! : P

All this aside, in Blood Wood-the clan Dentrnitus.....Dentine......the
magical clan (the name escapes me ATM) supposedly came from an island heavy
with magic far to the west. IIRC. This COULD (note POSIBILITY) Atlantis.

This is NOT assuming that Thera is, of course.

If not, is that island mentioned anywhere else?

Ahrain
Message no. 125
From: Maelwys wraith@************.com
Subject: Blood elves
Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2000 18:29:02 -0500
-----Original Message-----
From: Ahrain Drigar <Ahrain_Drigar@*******.com>
Subject: Re: Blood elves


>HA!, thought you got rid of me.......mmwwaaahhaahahahaa!!! : P
>
>All this aside, in Blood Wood-the clan Dentrnitus.....Dentine......the
>magical clan (the name escapes me ATM) supposedly came from an island heavy
>with magic far to the west. IIRC. This COULD (note POSIBILITY) Atlantis.


If I'm remembering right, and you're talking about the Clan Denairastis (I
think I butchered the spelling), which has some dealings with Blood Warders,
then you can look in the Dragon Sourcebook to find the answer. The Clan
Denairastis is a clan of Dragon Kin, IE, the offspring of a human and a
Dragon. The Dragon, of course, is Denairastis, now shunned/exiled from
Dragon community for creating the new DragonKin (apparently the Dragon's
banned this practice after the mistake with the elves). Hope this helps and
doesn't confuse anyone further.

Maelwys
Message no. 126
From: Josh Harrison mataxes@****.net
Subject: Blood elves
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 17:47:35 -0400
----- Original Message -----
From: Ahrain Drigar <Ahrain_Drigar@*******.com>
> All this aside, in Blood Wood-the clan Dentrnitus.....Dentine......the
> magical clan (the name escapes me ATM) supposedly came from an island
heavy
> with magic far to the west. IIRC. This COULD (note POSIBILITY) Atlantis.
>
> This is NOT assuming that Thera is, of course.

Well, I am at least 98% certain Thera is "Atlantis". If I understand you
correctly, you're referring to the Blood Wood sourcebook for Earthdawn. The
Denairastas (correct spelling) are a powerful clan of magicians that rule
the city of Iopos which lies to the west of Blood Wood. *That* may be the
west they are referring to. Iopos is very powerful magically, so it fits the
description (I don't recall Iopos being on an island, but not much has been
published about the city itself that I can recall offhand).

I could be wrong, but I don't think so. I haven't double checked the books
to make sure, but my working knowledge of Earthdawn is pretty good when it
coes to such things. Do you think you could provide a page reference in
regards to this "island to the west"?
-- Josh Harrison -- mataxes@****.net
Trifles make perfection, and perfection is no trifle.
Message no. 127
From: Maelwys wraith@************.com
Subject: Blood elves
Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 09:49:48 -0500
-----Original Message-----
From: Josh Harrison <mataxes@****.net>
Subject: Re: Blood elves


>
>Well, I am at least 98% certain Thera is "Atlantis". If I understand you
>correctly, you're referring to the Blood Wood sourcebook for Earthdawn. The
>Denairastas (correct spelling) are a powerful clan of magicians that rule
>the city of Iopos which lies to the west of Blood Wood. *That* may be the
>west they are referring to. Iopos is very powerful magically, so it fits
the
>description (I don't recall Iopos being on an island, but not much has been
>published about the city itself that I can recall offhand).
>


Pretty sure Iopos is a city (I'm sending my PCs to it in my online ED game
atm. A decent amount has been said about it but you have to look around,
like in Secret Societies of Barsaive, etc

Maelwys

Further Reading

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