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Message no. 1
From: Justin Pinnow <jpinnow@***.IM.MED.UMICH.EDU>
Subject: Bodyguards
Date: Tue, 16 May 1995 10:27:00 -0400
Hi there. I just bought Fields of Fire, and it is extremely helpful
for learning more about the way a professional merc would (should?)
behave. Unfortunately, I am at a loss for some helpful skill
combinations/special skills tailored for a bodyguard archetype. (Also,
the Neo-Anarchists' Guide to Real Life has lots of useful info about
security systems, etc.)

Since I intend on creating a bodyguard pc, any info you have that could
recommend skills (including special skills not listed in the books) for
this type of character would be appreciated.

Thanks! :)
Message no. 2
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@***.NEU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Bodyguards
Date: Tue, 16 May 1995 10:40:36 -0400
>>>>> "Justin" == Justin Pinnow
<jpinnow@***.IM.MED.UMICH.EDU> writes:

Justin> Since I intend on creating a bodyguard pc, any info you have
Justin> that could recommend skills (including special skills not listed
Justin> in the books) for this type of character would be appreciated.

Just about any kind of perception-type skills are a must, followed by
anything that might be relevant for the occupation of the guarded. If
you're guarding performers, then it'd be good to know how the
performance industry operates, not so you can do it, but so you know
what is right and what seems out of place. Skillchips/wires can be very
helpful for the "temporary" bodyguard. Also, a willingness to be a
target is a must.

A good place to start looking is at the Secret Service. You know, the
guys who guard the President of the United States, former Presidents,
and their families, etc.

--
Rat <ratinox@***.neu.edu> | Happy Fun Ball contains a liquid core,
http://www.ccs.neu.edu/home/ratinox | which, if exposed due to rupture, should
PGP Public Key: Ask for one today! | not be touched, inhaled, or looked at.
Message no. 3
From: Justin Pinnow <jpinnow@***.IM.MED.UMICH.EDU>
Subject: Re: Bodyguards
Date: Tue, 16 May 1995 11:29:10 -0400
Chances are, for the character concept I will protect mainly corp-
types, but will take the money where I can find it when it comes to who
I protect (within a code, of course).

Obviously, I won't limit myself to protecting JUST corp types, but that
would be the majority of my backround.

Also, how in-depth should I get when it comes to security systems?
Should I get a B/R skill? Just a knowledge of them?

This concept can be quite interesting and complex. I like the
challenge! But, I want to make sure I create a realistic top-notch
bodyguard....I don't want to realize a couple of sessions down the road
"doh--shoulda had that XYZ skill!" :)

Also, is there some sort of "really resourceful kinda guy" skill? :)

I mean, there are a bazillion relevant skills I can think of for most
any bodyguard....especially if you do more than just escort low-profile
johnsons.

Any suggestions on how to round out a realistic list of skills?

Thanks! :)
Message no. 4
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@***.NEU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Bodyguards
Date: Tue, 16 May 1995 12:06:24 -0400
>>>>> "Justin" == Justin Pinnow
<jpinnow@***.IM.MED.UMICH.EDU> writes:

Justin> Also, how in-depth should I get when it comes to security
Justin> systems? Should I get a B/R skill? Just a knowledge of them?

Knowledge never hurt. Basically, any skill you think might be useful
will be useful in some fashion.

[...]

Justin> Also, is there some sort of "really resourceful kinda guy"
Justin> skill? :)

Not really. The closest to that is having some strategically selected
skills and default the rest on the skill web, and skillchips/wires to
pick up the slack.

--
Rat <ratinox@***.neu.edu> | Caution: Happy Fun Ball may suddenly
http://www.ccs.neu.edu/home/ratinox | accelerate to dangerous speeds.
PGP Public Key: Ask for one today! |
Message no. 5
From: mnj <mnj@******.NET>
Subject: Re: Bodyguards
Date: Tue, 16 May 1995 10:18:00 MDT
>Since I intend on creating a bodyguard pc, any info you have that could
>recommend skills (including special skills not listed in the books) for
>this type of character would be appreciated.
>
>Thanks! :)
>
>
Lots of ettiquette skills <media, corp> etc.
Message no. 6
From: ATREIDE - Aymeric RICHARD <arichard@****.IRESTE.FR>
Subject: Re: Bodyguards
Date: Tue, 16 May 1995 18:49:56 +0100
A bodyguard should have :

* High perception (reaction) to notice every odd things
* good etiquette in the domain he works (has to know about street if he has
to protect someone in a club)
* maybe a special skill : Alertness which gives some extra dices for
perception tests
* negociation (unless it has a good and nice fixer)
* etiquette in police (lone star procedures or whatever) Note that EVERY
responsible shadowrunner should have it. I never saw a shadowrunner who
has it so conclude about their professionnalism... ;-)
* Of course weapons
* A driving vehicule skill
* permits for weapons...

* If he wants to have some job he has to be impressive, VERY calm (at least
.5 in essence, the VERY least). His customers will be corporates and he will
be with them much more than ordinary shadowrunners are.
* A bodyguard needs weapon permits and needs to work in legality, else he
only is a shadowrunner. Do you think lots of people would put their life
in the had of people that hide in shadows ?

*Also see mails about sidekicks posted 1 week ago (or 2 ?)

--
|-----------------------------------------------------------------------------|
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| Aymeric RICHARD - Atreide on IRC | C+(++) UL+ P?>+ L+>++ N+ E- W M-- |
| E-Mail : arichard@****.ireste.fr | Y(+) t+ R+(++) G' !tv b++ D+ u**- |
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Message no. 7
From: ATREIDE - Aymeric RICHARD <arichard@****.IRESTE.FR>
Subject: Re: Bodyguards
Date: Tue, 16 May 1995 19:06:10 +0100
Have you seen "bodyguard" with costner & W. Youston (not sure of
the spelling) ?
I did not, but maybe there are some interesting considerations

What do U want to do with B/R skills ? According to me its no use.

> Also, is there some sort of "really resourceful kinda guy" skill? :)
What ?????

--
|-----------------------------------------------------------------------------|
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| Aymeric RICHARD - Atreide on IRC | C+(++) UL+ P?>+ L+>++ N+ E- W M-- |
| E-Mail : arichard@****.ireste.fr | Y(+) t+ R+(++) G' !tv b++ D+ u**- |
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Message no. 8
From: Tim Serpas <wretch@**.COM>
Subject: Re: Bodyguards
Date: Tue, 16 May 1995 14:44:19 -0500
> >Since I intend on creating a bodyguard pc, any info you have that could
> >recommend skills (including special skills not listed in the books) for
> >this type of character would be appreciated.
> >

How about Stealth (Urban[Spotting someone following you]).
I'm pretty sure that's a valid specialization. -Losing- a trail would be
good, once you know that you're being followed. (Or just get paranoid and
assume that you're allways being followed)

Hmm, high body to soak the bullets meant for your employer, extra senses,
extra perception, camera/recorder/memory to identify trouble makers (see
if your GM might allow the SPU:video or SPU:audio from Aaron Wigley's WWW
page; you can use them to load pattern recognition software) or mnemnonic
enhancers (even if the rules are vague, just say 'yeah, I have 10 levels'
and your GM should say 'OK so you remember -blah-.').


How's that sound?
Tim Serpas :Geek Code v.2: GS d- H++>+++ s:- !g p1 auVW a- w+ v+ C+(++++)
BS Physics : U P? !L !3 E---- N++ K++ W M- !V -po+ Y+>++ t+ !5 j+>$
wretch@**.com: R+ G'' tv+>! b+>++ D+ B-- e++>-- u+ h- f+>* r++ n+ y+
Message no. 9
From: Justin Pinnow <jpinnow@***.IM.MED.UMICH.EDU>
Subject: Re: bodyguards
Date: Tue, 16 May 1995 16:21:33 -0400
> Have you seen "bodyguard" with costner & W. Youston (not sure of
> the spelling) ?
> I did not, but maybe there are some interesting considerations

Yes, I have seen it, and Mr. Costner did a pretty good job of being a
bodyguard (except for that falling in love with his client
part...amateur!) Unfortunately, it's not so much that I don't know
what kind of stuff the bodyguard needs to know, (although I am sure I
could always use a little more about this) as it is that I am not sure
what is the most realistic way of going about it in game terms.

> What do U want to do with B/R skills ? According to me its no use.

B/R for installing/detecting problems with security systems (technical
problems...not readily observable security breeches).

BTW: Thanks, ATREIDE, for your previous post of suggested
requirements. I appreciate it :)

Justin :)
Message no. 10
From: Justin Pinnow <jpinnow@***.IM.MED.UMICH.EDU>
Subject: Re: Bodyguards
Date: Tue, 16 May 1995 16:29:24 -0400
> How about Stealth (Urban[Spotting someone following you]).

Definately a must!

>Hmm, high body to soak the bullets meant for your employer, extra
>senses, extra perception, camera/recorder/memory to identify trouble
>makers

Chances are, I'll take the senses and the perception. I don't know if
you can declare a special skill of perseption or observation, but it
sure would be appropriate, IMO. (The basic same-as-intelligence thing
seems off for perception...to be highly trained at observation, you
don't necessarily have to be a rocket scientist -- but it helps :))

>(seeif your GM might allow the SPU:video or SPU:audio from Aaron
>Wigley's WWW page

Unfortunately, I don't understand how the SPU's work and integrate,
etc. (It's just a wee bit vague) If I knew exactly what's required to
have an integrated hearing and visually enhanced system (with dampners,
of course), I would seriously consider it.

Thanks for the suggestions, Tim! :)
Message no. 11
From: Gary Carroll <gary@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Bodyguards
Date: Tue, 16 May 1995 13:39:09 -0700
>
>What do U want to do with B/R skills ? According to
>me its no use.
>
>> Also, is there some sort of "really resourceful
>> kinda guy"

A B/R skill would be what I would require you to make
a check against a security system and how well it
will perform.

A Security /Security Systems (non B/R) skill is what I
would require for determining if a there are visible
problem areas, like a window with outside access to a
public location, without bullet proof glass. etc...

maybe a skill in First Aid if your party your protecting
does get hurt.

select sound filter would be good. Maybe even some
generic Magic skill (so you know how to defend against it)

Thanks Gary.
Message no. 12
From: Joan Sheehan <shee4766@******.IDBSU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Bodyguards
Date: Wed, 17 May 1995 05:53:35 +0200
In article <m0sBPK5-000QXaC@*****.micron.net> mnj <mnj@******.NET> writes:
>Date: Tue, 16 May 1995 10:18:00 MDT
>Reply-To: Discussion of the Fantasy game ShadowRun
<SHADOWRN@*****.nic.SURFnet.nl>
>From: mnj <mnj@******.NET>
>Subject: Re: Bodyguards

>>Since I intend on creating a bodyguard pc, any info you have that could
>>recommend skills (including special skills not listed in the books) for
>>this type of character would be appreciated.
>>
>>Thanks! :)
>>
>>
>Lots of ettiquette skills <media, corp> etc.

The body guard Archtype is actually pretty well rounded for the job...Good
B,Q,I, and willpower for those nasty mages...of course with the use of Beta
you could really increase this...just cost allot of money is all
:)......Mamoulian
Message no. 13
From: ATREIDE - Aymeric RICHARD <arichard@****.IRESTE.FR>
Subject: Re: Bodyguards
Date: Wed, 17 May 1995 09:43:09 +0100
Tim wrote :

> if your GM might allow the SPU:video or SPU:audio from Aaron Wigley's WWW
> page; you can use them to load pattern recognition software) or mnemnonic
What is Aaron Wigley's WWW address ?

--
|-----------------------------------------------------------------------------|
| ATREIDE | GCS d(++) H--() s !g p*+ au a- !v |
| Aymeric RICHARD - Atreide on IRC | C+(++) UL+ P?>+ L+>++ N+ E- W M-- |
| E-Mail : arichard@****.ireste.fr | Y(+) t+ R+(++) G' !tv b++ D+ u**- |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------------------|
Message no. 14
From: ATREIDE - Aymeric RICHARD <arichard@****.IRESTE.FR>
Subject: Re: bodyguards
Date: Wed, 17 May 1995 09:53:00 +0100
Justin :
> B/R for installing/detecting problems with security systems (technical
> problems...not readily observable security breeches).
I am not sure it is the job of a bodyguard to deal with security systems.
For me a BG use the protection of other specialists. See in films with
FIB forces : there are BG + security operators who supervise the whole.
However it does not mean that you cannot develop a specialist who does not
need an operator... his wage will be higher, he will be weaker in other
skills and will have an overload of work (which may disturb him from
his main duty : "S**T the device in location A36Z does not work ! Excuse
me Sir, I'm back..." BLAMMM no more Sir in life... ;-)
Never forget that a team is a lot more efficient than one guy highly
specialized in every skill... Maybe you can make a bodyguarding agency
with the other players... As I did in my campaign (my players are working
for a respectable corporation).

--
|-----------------------------------------------------------------------------|
| ATREIDE | GCS d(++) H--() s !g p*+ au a- !v |
| Aymeric RICHARD - Atreide on IRC | C+(++) UL+ P?>+ L+>++ N+ E- W M-- |
| E-Mail : arichard@****.ireste.fr | Y(+) t+ R+(++) G' !tv b++ D+ u**- |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------------------|
Message no. 15
From: ATREIDE - Aymeric RICHARD <arichard@****.IRESTE.FR>
Subject: Re: Bodyguards
Date: Wed, 17 May 1995 09:56:39 +0100
> maybe a skill in First Aid if your party your protecting
> does get hurt.
> select sound filter would be good. Maybe even some
> generic Magic skill (so you know how to defend against it)
Why not an adept ? so that you can have healing spells, clairvoyance, etec...
The pb is it costs :-(
But I'm found of magicians...

--
|-----------------------------------------------------------------------------|
| ATREIDE | GCS d(++) H--() s !g p*+ au a- !v |
| Aymeric RICHARD - Atreide on IRC | C+(++) UL+ P?>+ L+>++ N+ E- W M-- |
| E-Mail : arichard@****.ireste.fr | Y(+) t+ R+(++) G' !tv b++ D+ u**- |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------------------|
Message no. 16
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: Bodyguards
Date: Wed, 17 May 1995 13:04:41 +0200
>Since I intend on creating a bodyguard pc, any info you have that could
>recommend skills (including special skills not listed in the books) for
>this type of character would be appreciated.

How about good combat skills (mostly Firearms and Unarmed Combat, perhaps
Throwing too), a good selection of Etiquette skills, and Psychology (to
understand your possible opponents). Other than that, I say it depends a lot
on your personal view of what a "bodyguard" should be. My opinion is that
the archetype in the SR2 book (or Sprawl Sites) is just a samurai with more
expensive clothes and a different outlook on life, but nobody says you have
to use that character as a starting point.

>Also, how in-depth should I get when it comes to security systems?
>Should I get a B/R skill? Just a knowledge of them?

You mean in order to be able to set them up? Would be a good idea, I think,
but your GM would have to work out prices for the systems you would want to buy.

>I don't want to realize a couple of sessions down the road
>"doh--shoulda had that XYZ skill!" :)

That will happen no matter what, I think. If you want to prevent this from
happening, get skillwires and every possible skill on chip, though that can
cause the same "problems" as with mages and fetishes, if your GM is of the
opinion that it's too powerful.

>Also, is there some sort of "really resourceful kinda guy" skill? :)

It's called "player's common sense" and it's one of the most important
things you can bring into a game IMO :)


Gurth@******.nl - Gurth@***.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
What do I do next?
Geek Code v2.1: GS/AT/! -d+ H s:- !g p?(3) !au a>? w+(+++) v*(---) C+(++) U
P? !L !3 E? N++ K- W+ -po+(po) Y+ t(+) 5 !j R+(++)>+++$ tv+(++) b+@ D+(++)
B? e+ u+@ h! f--(?) !r(--)(*) n---->!n y? Unofficial Shadowrun Guru :)
Message no. 17
From: P Ward <P.Ward@**.CF.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Bodyguards
Date: Wed, 17 May 1995 13:07:38 BST
Tim Serpas wrote
> Hmm, high body to soak the bullets meant for your employer,

Now there's an idea, how do you handle someone trying to dodge
_INTO_ the path of bullets meant for someone else?

now that's messy.

Phil (who intends to make it up as he goes along, like normal)
Message no. 18
From: P Ward <P.Ward@**.CF.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Bodyguards
Date: Wed, 17 May 1995 13:11:31 BST
If you're looking for a book about bodyguards, there's a Thriller
around by the guy who wrote Rambo:First Blood, called "The Fifth
Profession", showing the biz from both viewpoints, BGuard and
runner.

I heartily reccommend it, pretty good read, and lots of plot
ideas to steal.

Phil (Rengade)
Message no. 19
From: Sebastian Wiers <seb@***.RIPCO.COM>
Subject: Re: Bodyguards
Date: Wed, 17 May 1995 15:04:48 -0500
UM, my hyper warp sammurai had to do body guard duty and failed miserably.
Actually, we had a whole run team and still failed. The downfall was threat
detection. Our threat response kicked ass- see, this drone got in, and I was
wailing on it with a diacoated katana, real tiny drone, chop chop chop,
BoOM!
plastique bomb blows me, my hardened armor, half of my weapons and half of my
karma pool clear across the room.
One little chem sniffer, detect bomb spell, cyber or adept enhanced sensory
organ trained properly, even a trained dog, could have prevented that.
Fortunately, we magically healed our boss.
Yes, I have skill wires, mostly for computer and tech stuff, fisrt aid also.
that helps a lot, as I did not need skills at high priority. And no, I don't
carry them all- there to expensive and fragile.

SO, go with a mage, or a samurai with chem analizer, radio,
hearing amp/sound select, skilwire. Try for someone who can rig (vcr's are
cheap).
a phys ad might work, senseory enhancements are cheap, but i Find they are
always weak in some other aspect until they get some expierince/ yen.
Message no. 20
From: "Paul J. Adam" <Paul@********.DEMON.CO.UK>
Subject: Re: Bodyguards
Date: Tue, 16 May 1995 21:35:01 GMT
>Since I intend on creating a bodyguard pc, any info you have that could
>recommend skills (including special skills not listed in the books) for
>this type of character would be appreciated.
>
>Thanks! :) >

Good corporate and/or media etiquette. Passable Charisma - say 2 or 3 at
least - and Intelligence at least 3. Firearms skills good but maybe
concentrated in Pistols - bodyguards aren't there to fight wars, and if
the threat has automatic weapons you risk getting your principal killed
in the crossfire.
Essential skills also Stealth (for being inconspicuous, not invisible) and
good First Aid.

Equipment would be light on armament, but good body armour and the best
medical gear you could carry unobtrusively would be essential.

I confess I used to read a guns-and-guts mag called Combat and Survival,
which for a while produced good articles (such as bodyguard technique)
before sliding into the big-guns-and-war-stories morass, and that's what
the above is based on.

--
When you have shot and killed a man, you have defined your attitude towards
him. You have offered a definite answer to a definite problem. For better
or for worse, you have acted decisively.
In fact, the next move is up to him.

Paul J. Adam paul@********.demon.co.uk
Message no. 21
From: "Paul J. Adam" <Paul@********.DEMON.CO.UK>
Subject: Re: Bodyguards
Date: Tue, 16 May 1995 22:11:02 GMT
> A bodyguard should have :
> * If he wants to have some job he has to be impressive, VERY calm (at
least
> .5 in essence, the VERY least). His customers will be corporates and he
will
> be with them much more than ordinary shadowrunners are.

Why does low essence stop you being calm? And why "at least 0.5"? Lynch
has 0.55 and seems almost torpid (basically because his reflexes and
sensors let him see and react to what happens around him: he saw the
waiter with the tray of glasses slip and was the only person who didn't
jump.

Ditto experience having the same effect. People have been loosing off
ordnance at Lynch for twenty years... it doesn't worry him, he just treats
it with the respect it deserves. He doesn't do much bodyguard work, but
when he does he's good at it.

His wife has a different approach - she's so stunning she tends to be the
principal's bimbo-of-the-night. So everyone tends to ignore her: but she's
right next to the principal and can get him out of harm's way fast.

> * A bodyguard needs weapon permits and needs to work in legality, else he
> only is a shadowrunner. Do you think lots of people would put their life
> in the had of people that hide in shadows ?

If someone had survived a while in the shadows, they would have some
credibility for dealing with a threat. And it depends on many things -
with the General Meeting in two weeks and shareholder confidence already
low, is the word that the boss is canvassing bodyguard agencies going
to help? Or is he going to hire "covert operation specialists" who will
probably be good enough and won't be noticed?

--
When you have shot and killed a man, you have defined your attitude towards
him. You have offered a definite answer to a definite problem. For better
or for worse, you have acted decisively.
In fact, the next move is up to him.

Paul J. Adam paul@********.demon.co.uk
Message no. 22
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: Bodyguards
Date: Thu, 18 May 1995 18:53:40 +0200
>Good corporate and/or media etiquette. Passable Charisma - say 2 or 3 at
>least

Or maybe go for Charisma 1 and use that to scare away the obnoxious but not
dangerous people your client has to be protected from as well :)


Gurth@******.nl - Gurth@***.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
What do I do next?
Geek Code v2.1: GS/AT/! -d+ H s:- !g p?(3) !au a>? w+(+++) v*(---) C+(++) U
P? !L !3 E? N++ K- W+ -po+(po) Y+ t(+) 5 !j R+(++)>+++$ tv+(++) b+@ D+(++)
B? e+ u+@ h! f--(?) !r(--)(*) n---->!n y? Unofficial Shadowrun Guru :)
Message no. 23
From: Jani Fikouras <feanor@**********.UNI-BREMEN.DE>
Subject: Re: Bodyguards
Date: Thu, 18 May 1995 18:56:57 +0200
> >Good corporate and/or media etiquette. Passable Charisma - say 2 or 3 at
> >least
>
> Or maybe go for Charisma 1 and use that to scare away the obnoxious but not
> dangerous people your client has to be protected from as well :)

So maybe we should aply, we should get plenty of work if thats the case :)

--
"Tonight, hell sends an Angel bearing gifts"

GCS d H s+: !g p1 !au a- w+ v-(?) C++++ UA++$S++L++$>++++ L++>+++ E--- N+ h*(+)
W(+)(---) M-- !V(--) -po+(---) Y+ t++ 5++ R+++ tv b++ e+ u++(-) f+ r- n!(-) y?
Message no. 24
From: ATREIDE - Aymeric RICHARD <arichard@****.IRESTE.FR>
Subject: Re: Bodyguards
Date: Fri, 19 May 1995 08:27:00 +0100
Gurth wrote :
> Or maybe go for Charisma 1 and use that to scare away the obnoxious but not
> dangerous people your client has to be protected from as well :)
If so you will scare your Mr Jonhson and he will not employ you...
You have to please your employer to have a job.
dodn't forget you are a part of his social life if you scare, he scares.

|-----------------------------------------------------------------------------|
| ATREIDE | GCS d(++) H--() s !g p*+ au a- !v |
| Aymeric RICHARD - Atreide on IRC | C+(++) UL+ P?>+ L+>++ N+ E- W M-- |
| E-Mail : arichard@****.ireste.fr | Y(+) t+ R+(++) G' !tv b++ D+ u**- |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------------------|
Message no. 25
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: Bodyguards
Date: Fri, 19 May 1995 09:53:42 +0200
>> Or maybe go for Charisma 1 and use that to scare away the obnoxious but not
>> dangerous people your client has to be protected from as well :)
>
> So maybe we should aply, we should get plenty of work if thats the case :)

You'd have to dump Rico, Amrog, and FireFly, though... :)


Gurth@******.nl - Gurth@***.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
What do I do next?
Geek Code v2.1: GS/AT/! -d+ H s:- !g p?(3) !au a>? w+(+++) v*(---) C+(++) U
P? !L !3 E? N++ K- W+ -po+(po) Y+ t(+) 5 !j R+(++)>+++$ tv+(++) b+@ D+(++)
B? e+ u+@ h! f--(?) !r(--)(*) n---->!n y? Unofficial Shadowrun Guru :)
Message no. 26
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: Bodyguards
Date: Fri, 19 May 1995 09:53:52 +0200
>> Or maybe go for Charisma 1 and use that to scare away the obnoxious but not
>> dangerous people your client has to be protected from as well :)
>If so you will scare your Mr Jonhson and he will not employ you...
>You have to please your employer to have a job.
>dodn't forget you are a part of his social life if you scare, he scares.

Use tailored phermomones (culture them for even better effects), and only
interact with your Johnson when (s)he can smell you :) Or impress him/her
with your high Etiquette skills to hide your low Charisma :)
Anyway, it was meant as a joke, but you might try it anyway...


Gurth@******.nl - Gurth@***.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
What do I do next?
Geek Code v2.1: GS/AT/! -d+ H s:- !g p?(3) !au a>? w+(+++) v*(---) C+(++) U
P? !L !3 E? N++ K- W+ -po+(po) Y+ t(+) 5 !j R+(++)>+++$ tv+(++) b+@ D+(++)
B? e+ u+@ h! f--(?) !r(--)(*) n---->!n y? Unofficial Shadowrun Guru :)
Message no. 27
From: ATREIDE - Aymeric RICHARD <arichard@****.IRESTE.FR>
Subject: Re: Bodyguards
Date: Fri, 19 May 1995 12:54:30 +0100
>>> Or maybe go for Charisma 1 and use that to scare away the obnoxious but not
>>...
>>If so you will scare your Mr Jonhson and he will not employ you...
>...
>Use tailored phermomones (culture them for even better effects), and only

Anyway pheromones increase your charisma => you haven't a Charisma of 1...

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Message no. 28
From: Paul Jonathan Adam <Paul@********.DEMON.CO.UK>
Subject: Re: Bodyguards
Date: Thu, 18 May 1995 21:55:33 GMT
I wrote...
> >Good corporate and/or media etiquette. Passable Charisma - say 2 or 3 at
> >least
Gurth in his wisdom added...
> Or maybe go for Charisma 1 and use that to scare away the obnoxious but not
> dangerous people your client has to be protected from as well :)

And now I retort that "do those obnoxious but not dangerous people include
waiters, agents, producers, customers, managers, et cetera?" Charisma 1 isn't
scary, it's just socially inept, and a bodyguard is generally meant to be
inconspicuous. Having a cybergeek following your customer around, ogling the
women and blowing his nose on his sleeve, is not the way to win friends and
influence people.

--
When you have shot and killed a man, you have defined your attitude towards
him. You have offered a definite answer to a definite problem. For better
or for worse, you have acted decisively.
In fact, the next move is up to him.

Paul J. Adam paul@********.demon.co.uk
Message no. 29
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: Bodyguards
Date: Sat, 20 May 1995 10:34:29 +0200
>Gurth in his wisdom added...
>> Or maybe go for Charisma 1 and use that to scare away the obnoxious but not
>> dangerous people your client has to be protected from as well :)
>
>And now I retort that "do those obnoxious but not dangerous people include
>waiters, agents, producers, customers, managers, et cetera?" Charisma 1 isn't
>scary, it's just socially inept, and a bodyguard is generally meant to be
>inconspicuous. Having a cybergeek following your customer around, ogling the
>women and blowing his nose on his sleeve, is not the way to win friends and
>influence people.

As I already pointed out, it was meant as a joke... If you take it serious,
you'd be a lot better off going for an elf and assign 6 points to Charisma :)

And now for something completely different (but still related)...
...musical performances. My elf rigger/samurai has recently upgraded his
Charisma to 8 and bought Guitar skill at level 2. Still, I'm able to
generate tremendous Impacts if I follow Shadowbeat :) but this is almost
completely driven by his Charisma and not by his actual skill at playing the
cheap electric guitar he bought...


Gurth@******.nl - Gurth@***.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
I found the secret to Jungle, BTW: Don't listen to it :) --Ray Cokes
Geek Code v2.1: GS/AT/! -d+ H s:- !g p?(3) !au a>? w+(+++) v*(---) C+(++) U
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B? e+ u+@ h! f--(?) !r(--)(*) n---->!n y? Unofficial Shadowrun Guru :)
Message no. 30
From: P Ward <P.Ward@**.CF.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Bodyguards
Date: Sat, 20 May 1995 09:38:44 BST
Gurth Wrote :-
> ...musical performances

Yeah, seen that happen. A tribal sammy doing a strip routine (hye, he was
as big as a chippendale), to annoy the local dekcer who was supposed to be
singing in the club that night. He wiped the floor with her, and she'd
actually put points in that skill, oh well.

Don't use Shadowbeat, make it up, same with most of those corp sahdowfiles
rules. It doesn't really matter that much.

Phil (Renegade)
Message no. 31
From: Justin Pinnow <jpinnow@***.IM.MED.UMICH.EDU>
Subject: Re: Bodyguards
Date: Mon, 22 May 1995 15:20:06 -0400
>Now there's an idea, how do you handle someone trying to dodge
>_INTO_ the path of bullets meant for someone else?

>now that's messy.

Actually, I would be interested to know what you folks think about
this. How *would* you handle someone trying to "shield" someone from
bullets (as cover, etc.)?

I know this could get messy, but like any other rules question, it
would be nice to discuss :)

Thanks!
Message no. 32
From: Justin Pinnow <jpinnow@***.IM.MED.UMICH.EDU>
Subject: Re: Bodyguards
Date: Mon, 22 May 1995 15:50:29 -0400
Well, it's for real now, folks. I have created my bodyguard pc! I
would like to thank all you helpful types for your input and support on
this. Now let's see how long this character lasts! (not long, if
things keep going the way they have in the first two sessions) ;)
Message no. 33
From: Gary Carroll <gary@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Bodyguards
Date: Mon, 22 May 1995 14:27:26 -0700
>>Now there's an idea, how do you handle someone trying to dodge
>>_INTO_ the path of bullets meant for someone else?
>>now that's messy.
>
>Actually, I would be interested to know what you folks think about
>this. How *would* you handle someone trying to "shield" someone from
>bullets (as cover, etc.)?
>
>I know this could get messy, but like any other rules question, it
>would be nice to discuss :)
>Thanks!

First of all there is no current skill for this but there is no
reason you couldn't make one. " Bodyguarding"
or unarmed combat +4 *two off the unarmed web and
or athletics +4*

Well if the Bodyguard is able to mostly block the target
you must use the modified target numbers to hit the subject.
i.e. partial cover/mostly covered/fully covered +2/+4/+6

If the bodyguard is able to see the shooter: base target #4

OK this get Sticky - still hashing out/play testing some rules.
action held: no modifier
no action held: +1/combat segment off from the shooter
*unless the bodyguard is surprised he should
always have an action held (it's his job: he is always at init)*
i.e. shooter #1 goes on 28 shooter #2 goes on 26 bodyguard
goes on 23
body guard holds from last turn, shooter shoots on 28
body guard uses all combat pool(8) + bodyguard(6)
rolls 14 dice to for target #4 + (this is what I'm hashing out
the modifiers for gun sounds seeing gunner etc...)
# 4 + lets say 6 for hearing aprox location of gun sound
or commotion of people as someone pulls a gun
TN# 10 = rolls a lucky 2 successes
so now the question: How do I run it that these 2 successes

1) Do these successes come off the shooters successes and
does damage to the Bodyguard.
2) Does this add to the target # of the shooter so if the shooter
had a +6 for fully covered then +2 for bodyguard sucesses
so the shooter TN# = +8 - shooter misses but would have hit
without the coverage - bodyguard takes the damage successes
from the shooter w/o combat pool, just body and armor.
3) Does the target add the bodyguard successes to combat pool
and armor.

(i've playtested 1 & 2 with full auto - works nice and easy for
taking several bullets off the intended target - but haven't come
up with does the bodyguard take the full hit for single bullet/
partial hit and target partial or take partial and deflected)

Well there you have it - please thrash at will - I would like any
other suggestions or comments *including good comments*

Thanks
Gary.
Message no. 34
From: Gary Carroll <gary@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Bodyguards
Date: Mon, 22 May 1995 14:40:12 -0700
>Actually, I would be interested to know what you folks think about
>this. How *would* you handle someone trying to "shield" someone from
>bullets (as cover, etc.)?
>
>I know this could get messy, but like any other rules question, it
>would be nice to discuss :)
>Thanks!

First of all there is no current skill for this but there is no
reason you couldn't make one. " Bodyguarding"
or unarmed combat +4 *two off the unarmed web and
or athletics +4*

Well if the Bodyguard is able to mostly block the target
you must use the modified target numbers to hit the subject.
i.e. partial cover/mostly covered/fully covered +2/+4/+6

If the bodyguard is able to see the shooter: base target #4

OK this get Sticky - still hashing out/play testing some rules.
action held: no modifier
no action held: +1/combat segment off from the shooter
*unless the bodyguard is surprised he should
always have an action held (it's his job: he is always at init)*
i.e. shooter #1 goes on 28 shooter #2 goes on 26 bodyguard
goes on 23
body guard holds from last turn, shooter shoots on 28
body guard uses all combat pool(8) + bodyguard(6)
rolls 14 dice to for target #4 + (this is what I'm hashing out
the modifiers for gun sounds seeing gunner etc...)
# 4 + lets say 6 for hearing aprox location of gun sound
or commotion of people as someone pulls a gun
TN# 10 = rolls a lucky 2 successes
so now the question: How do I run it that these 2 successes

1) Do these successes come off the shooters successes and
does damage to the Bodyguard.
2) Does this add to the target # of the shooter so if the shooter
had a +6 for fully covered then +2 for bodyguard sucesses
so the shooter TN# = +8 - shooter misses but would have hit
without the coverage - bodyguard takes the damage successes
from the shooter w/o combat pool, just body and armor.
3) Does the target add the bodyguard successes to combat pool
and armor.

*OOPS got tied up in that last question & didn't finish...

Shooter 2 goes on 26: considering the bodyguard is still alive.
lets say he now sees the second shooter so his base
number is TN# 4 +3 (one for each segment off his next action)
only rolling 6 dice (bodyguarding) (no combat pool left)
again he gets real real lucky and get 2 successes

now just to work in shooting back. (maybe +2) to shooting
because he is guarding. it's a simple action to shoot
so... it would be possible. *while we could rule bodyguarding
is a complex action*

Thanks Gary.
Message no. 35
From: Jani Fikouras <feanor@**********.UNI-BREMEN.DE>
Subject: Re: Bodyguards
Date: Tue, 23 May 1995 10:16:20 +0200
> >Now there's an idea, how do you handle someone trying to dodge
> >_INTO_ the path of bullets meant for someone else?
>
> >now that's messy.
>
> Actually, I would be interested to know what you folks think about
> this. How *would* you handle someone trying to "shield" someone from
> bullets (as cover, etc.)?
>
> I know this could get messy, but like any other rules question, it
> would be nice to discuss :)

How about a reaction test against the guy who's doing the shooting ?
I think it makes sence and its not that hard (it shouldnt be, hurting
yourself should always be easy :)

--
"Tonight, hell sends an Angel bearing gifts"

GCS d H s+: !g p1 !au a- w+ v-(?) C++++ UA++$S++L++$>++++ L++>+++ E--- N+ h*(+)
W(+)(---) M-- !V(--) -po+(---) Y+ t++ 5++ R+++ tv b++ e+ u++(-) f+ r- n!(-) y?
Message no. 36
From: ATREIDE - Aymeric RICHARD <arichard@****.IRESTE.FR>
Subject: Re: Bodyguards
Date: Tue, 23 May 1995 11:31:59 +0100
Paul J. wrote :

> waiters, agents, producers, customers, managers, et cetera?" Charisma 1 isn't
> scary, it's just socially inept, and a bodyguard is generally meant to be
> inconspicuous. Having a cybergeek following your customer around, ogling the
> women and blowing his nose on his sleeve, is not the way to win friends and
> influence people.

Imaging being one of these women, isn't such a guy scary ? ;-)

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Message no. 37
From: ATREIDE - Aymeric RICHARD <arichard@****.IRESTE.FR>
Subject: Re: Bodyguards
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1993 01:16:45 +0100
Justin Pinnow wrote :
> Well, it's for real now, folks. I have created my bodyguard pc! I

So can you give us the description of your PC ?

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Message no. 38
From: Justin Pinnow <jpinnow@***.IM.MED.UMICH.EDU>
Subject: Re: Bodyguards
Date: Tue, 23 May 1995 09:21:28 -0400
>First of all there is no current skill for this but there is no
>reason you couldn't make one. " Bodyguarding"
>or unarmed combat +4 *two off the unarmed web and
>or athletics +4*

I like the idea of creating a new skill (call it bodyguarding, or
whatever else you like) My main question would be what *type* of skill
should it be? Could it be a concentration orspecialization of unarmed
combat? Should it be a special skill in and of itself? (Since it
would seem difficult to concentrate or specialize in any one part of
this new skill, I would be hesitant to actually make it it's own skill,
unless it was a special skill.)

>now just to work in shooting back. (maybe +2) to shooting
>because he is guarding. it's a simple action to shoot
>so... it would be possible. *while we could rule bodyguarding
>is a complex action*

While it would take a lot of concentration to be able to detect where
someone is shooting from and when they are shooting (not to mention the
discipline and willpower it takes to jump in front of a bullet to save
another), it would be impractical for game purposes to make
"bodyguarding" a complex action (IMO). Why? Because then a bodyguard
could NEVER shoot back as long as someone was shooting at his client!
(Can't take one simple and one complex action per combat phase)

I will agree that it should take some of his potential actions away,
however (it should take SOME time to jump in front of a bullet), so I
would suggest a simple action for every bullet or burst he is
attempting to block. (for all you roomsweeping types...perhaps either
treat it the same as a burst, or consider that a complex action) This
solution still seems a bit off, but I can't come up with anything
better at the moment.

Also, as it was mentioned (albeit in jest) by someone else on here
(sorry, I didn't save the post), it shouldn't be made too difficult for
someone to hurt themselves! Let's see if we can some up with some way
to work this out while still allowing the well-trained bodyguard the
ability to do more than just take bullets and die. (perhaps even shoot
back once in awhile). Suggestions? I know this is pretty sticky...but
I know there are more of you out there with opinions.... ;)

>no action held: +1/combat segment off from the shooter

Are you suggesting the bodyguard can act BEFORE his combat phase when
he doesn't have a held action? In that case, bodyguarding would either
have to be a free action (plausible in game terms, but perhaps not in
real life), or it would have to be an exception to the initiative
rules. Ouch. I do think that something will have to give here,
though. I don't see how you can keep it realistic AND stay within the
limitations of the combat system at this point. Suggestions? :)

>So can you give us the description of your PC ?

I'll be glad to post a copy of his skills, etc. tomorrow (when I have
the character sheet handy.) I think the list of skills I put together
(with your input--thanks all!) is pretty comprehensive for a beginning
character. I will post this tomorrow!

Thanks you all!

Justin :)
Message no. 39
From: P Ward <P.Ward@**.CF.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Bodyguards
Date: Tue, 23 May 1995 15:46:34 BST
Personally, I effectively allowed the Bodyguard (or in his case, huge stupid
troll who didn't know better to use his dodge successes on behalf of the
other guy. If he helped them to totally dodge it, then he took the hit (at
max successes), if only partial, he took a 'wildf-fire' style hit.

Oh yeah, and I didn't let him use his own dodge pool to dodge/reduce the hit
he took on the target's behalf.

That's why I asked, I figured somebody had come up with the siutation and
had enough time to make some _real_ rules for it, and I was right.

Nice one chummer


In response to Justin:-
> Are you suggesting the bodyguard can act BEFORE his combat phase when
> he doesn't have a held action?
Sure he can, as long as he's not surprised, mnovement is a free action (unless
you're using athletics to improve your run speed), so jumping in the way of a
bullet should be too. As long as he;s not surprised that is ;-)

Phil (Renegade, who has too many bullets of her own to worry about, without
trying to stop someone elses ;-) )
Message no. 40
From: Marc A Renouf <jormung@*****.UMICH.EDU>
Subject: Re: Bodyguards
Date: Tue, 23 May 1995 11:32:01 -0400
On Sat, 20 May 1995, Gurth wrote:

> And now for something completely different (but still related)...
> ...musical performances. My elf rigger/samurai has recently upgraded his
> Charisma to 8 and bought Guitar skill at level 2. Still, I'm able to
> generate tremendous Impacts if I follow Shadowbeat :) but this is almost
> completely driven by his Charisma and not by his actual skill at playing the
> cheap electric guitar he bought...

Which would explain the immense popularity of all the pretty-boy
glam-rock band that suck so bad. Real music and an ugly face doesn't
usually cut it in the entertainment business. But a pretty face and bad
music, well we can make you a star.

Marc (list.jaded.member)
Message no. 41
From: P Ward <P.Ward@**.CF.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Bodyguards
Date: Tue, 23 May 1995 16:41:06 BST
Our illustrious list.jaded.member wrote :-

> Which would explain the immense popularity of all the pretty-boy
> glam-rock band that suck so bad. Real music and an ugly face doesn't
> usually cut it in the entertainment business. But a pretty face and bad
> music, well we can make you a star

Oh, I don;t know, I kinda thought Glam was dead (finally), after all
Da Crue is without Vince, and Tiger-tails couldn't play due to legal
wrangles, etc.

OTOH, if we're talking about pretty-boy pop bands (I won't name them),
now they really suck, and they make even bigger stars!! :-(

Phil (Renegade)
Message no. 42
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: Bodyguards
Date: Tue, 23 May 1995 18:17:10 +0200
>Actually, I would be interested to know what you folks think about
>this. How *would* you handle someone trying to "shield" someone from
>bullets (as cover, etc.)?

I'd say the bodyguard would need a Delayed Action, and when the attacker
announces (s)he fires at the to-be-protected individual, the bodyguard
announces his/her intentions to jump in front of the target. Then apply
cover modifiers for the target, and if the attack misses due to those mods,
the bodyguard gets hit instead.
Or something.

Example: Joe Enemy fires his Predator (why does everyone use these anyway?
:) at Jane Victim, but John Valiant wants to catch the bullet for her.
John's init is 15, Joe's is 12. John delays his action; at 12 Joe says he'll
shoot at Jane. John shouts "I use my delayed action to jump between them!"
Assuming he can reach her in time (that is, if his Quickness is high
enough), he gives Ms. Victim cover. If Joe's TN would normally be 4, it now
goes up to 10 (I use FOF). Joe rolls his 4 dice, and gets 1, 4, 4, and 8. A
miss; however, it's not a miss against the 4 he'd originally need, so John
takes a 9M round with three successes...


Gurth@******.nl - Gurth@***.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
I need an easy friend
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B? e+ u+@ h! f--(?) !r(--)(*) n---->!n y? Unofficial Shadowrun Guru :)
Message no. 43
From: Gary Carroll <gary@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Bodyguards
Date: Tue, 23 May 1995 09:58:32 -0700
>>Actually, I would be interested to know what you folks
>>think about this. How *would* you handle someone
>>trying to "shield" someone from bullets (as cover, etc.)?
>
>Gurth replies:
>I'd say the bodyguard would need a Delayed Action, and
>when the attacker announces (s)he fires at the to-be-protected
>individual, the bodyguard announces his/her intentions to
>jump in front of the target. Then apply cover modifiers for the
>target, and if the attack misses due to those mods,the
>bodyguard gets hit instead. Or something.
>
>Example: Joe Enemy fires his Predator (why does everyone
>use these anyway? :) at Jane Victim, but John Valiant wants
>to catch the bullet for her. John's init is 15, Joe's is 12. John
>delays his action; at 12 Joe says he'll shoot at Jane. John
>shouts "I use my delayed action to jump between them!"
>Assuming he can reach her in time (that is, if his Quickness is
>high enough), he gives Ms. Victim cover. If Joe's TN would
>normally be 4, it now goes up to 10 (I use FOF). Joe rolls his
>4 dice, and gets 1, 4, 4, and 8. A miss; however, it's not a miss
>against the 4 he'd originally need, so John takes a 9M round
>with three successes...

My question is then: what happens if joe rolls a 1,4,4 and a 14.
A hit with the 14 one success, but then does john take 2 successes
because the 4's would normally hit, and Ms Victim takes a hit
with 1 success???

If it was a burst fire from a weapon I would just rule that 2 of three
bullets hit John and 1 of three hits Ms Victim.

*sigh* isn't this fun.
Thanks
Gary.
Message no. 44
From: Sebastian Wiers <seb@***.RIPCO.COM>
Subject: Re: Bodyguards
Date: Tue, 23 May 1995 17:39:49 -0500
> > Are you suggesting the bodyguard can act BEFORE his combat phase when
> > he doesn't have a held action?
> Sure he can, as long as he's not surprised, mnovement is a free action (unless
> you're using athletics to improve your run speed), so jumping in the way of a
> bullet should be too. As long as he;s not surprised that is ;-)
>
> Phil (Renegade, who has too many bullets of her own to worry about, without
> trying to stop someone elses ;-) )
>
Phil, you don't get a free action until you have a regular action. Otherwise,
the client could move under cover him/herself, and this discusion would be
pointless. As a matter of fact, you could run from almost any treat (it might
still catch up to you). If youv'e held an action from a previous round, you can use
it before anyone else; maybe thats why bodyguards alwys look so tense >:>
(see FoF rules on holding actions while moving)
Message no. 45
From: Sebastian Wiers <seb@***.RIPCO.COM>
Subject: Re: Bodyguards
Date: Tue, 23 May 1995 17:58:51 -0500
>
> > >Now there's an idea, how do you handle someone trying to dodge
> > >_INTO_ the path of bullets meant for someone else?
>
> How about a reaction test against the guy who's doing the shooting ?
> I think it makes sence and its not that hard (it shouldnt be, hurting
> yourself should always be easy :)
>
How did such a nice, simple idea get so messy? :)
I hope he was talking suprise style test- an opposed test between sams would
result in no sucesses or massive karma consumption.
Message no. 46
From: Kelwyn Osborn <cctr128@******.CANTERBURY.AC.NZ>
Subject: Re: Bodyguards
Date: Wed, 24 May 1995 11:38:40 +1200
On Tue, 23 May 1995, P Ward wrote:

> Personally, I effectively allowed the Bodyguard (or in his case, huge stupid
> troll who didn't know better to use his dodge successes on behalf of the
> other guy. If he helped them to totally dodge it, then he took the hit (at
> max successes), if only partial, he took a 'wildf-fire' style hit.

How about allowing the bodyguard to assign some of his combat pool dice
to the person being protected. Much the same to how a mage can allocate
die from his spell pool for defence to another player. Then if it's the
allocated dice that save the targets butt, the body guard takes the hits.

As for the number of dice that can be allocated maybe it could be no more
than a Bodyguard skill which could be a concentration/specialization of a
Tactics skill. (just new and I can't remember if there's a tactics skill
:) )

Kelwyn - who's grateful for all the help on magic :)
Message no. 47
From: P Ward <P.Ward@**.CF.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Bodyguards
Date: Wed, 24 May 1995 11:49:06 BST
Gurth Wrote :-
> Example: Joe Enemy fires his Predator (why does everyone use these anyway?
> :)

You think that's bad. Why does everyone use a pred II over a Pred I,
1 point less concealable same clip size, and the only difference,
the damn things smart. With the advent of smnart-II, you'd think that
they'd all switch to P-I's because they're easier to retrofit!

;-)

Phil (Renegade)
Message no. 48
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: Bodyguards
Date: Wed, 24 May 1995 16:13:10 +0200
>My question is then: what happens if joe rolls a 1,4,4 and a 14.
>A hit with the 14 one success, but then does john take 2 successes
>because the 4's would normally hit, and Ms Victim takes a hit
>with 1 success???

The suggested rules said that, if the cover provided by the bodyguard was
enough to make the attacker miss, the bodyguard got hit. Nothing else, so
your case (rolling 14) would make the shooter hit the original target,
though with only one success instead of three.

>If it was a burst fire from a weapon I would just rule that 2 of three
>bullets hit John and 1 of three hits Ms Victim.

Good idea!


Gurth@******.nl - Gurth@***.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
I need an easy friend
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B? e+ u+@ h! f--(?) !r(--)(*) n---->!n y? Unofficial Shadowrun Guru :)
Message no. 49
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: Bodyguards
Date: Wed, 24 May 1995 16:13:20 +0200
>> Example: Joe Enemy fires his Predator (why does everyone use these anyway?
>> :)
>
>You think that's bad. Why does everyone use a pred II over a Pred I,
>1 point less concealable same clip size, and the only difference,
>the damn things smart. With the advent of smnart-II, you'd think that
>they'd all switch to P-I's because they're easier to retrofit!

You forget that in SR1 the Predator II had a larger clip than the Predator
:) But don't look at me, my rigger/sam/rocker-wannabe has equipped himself
with a SIG P300 with a smartlink II; before that he used an UltraPower with
the laser sight removed and an internal smartlink fitted. I don't like
Predators, too bulky I guess :)


Gurth@******.nl - Gurth@***.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
I need an easy friend
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Message no. 50
From: P Ward <P.Ward@**.CF.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Bodyguards
Date: Thu, 25 May 1995 11:51:28 BST
Seb Viers wrote :-
> Phil, you don't get a free action until you have a regular action.

Chummer, you get a free action every phase, but you can only undertake
some free actions in your own phase, check it carefully gato. It's
why they're called free after all.

Basically, you can't do some of them if you're surprised.

Movement comes at any time in the round, but the point is, the client is
not hard enough to take care of themselves, therefore, they may not be
able to 'move' fast enough to get under cover, or be able to recognise the
threat fast enough (perception check = simple, therefore on your actiononly
look around = free, any time you want).

Phil (Renegade)
Message no. 51
From: P Ward <P.Ward@**.CF.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Bodyguards
Date: Thu, 25 May 1995 11:54:10 -0300
Gurth Wrote :-

> You forget that in SR1 the Predator II had a larger clip than the Predator
> :)

Nah man, Pred-I's have a 10/15 clip, if you get the extended one,
if you get a pred-II, you automatically get a 15 round clip.

Personally, my characters use Cerska Vz-120's loading APDS or XX and a
smart-II, with head shots, more conceablable, better clip, less
threatening (ie you get in more places with it), and when you're as
good a shot as renegade, just as deadly.

Phil (Renegade)
Message no. 52
From: P Ward <P.Ward@**.CF.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Bodyguards
Date: Thu, 25 May 1995 15:59:20 BST
Oh yeah, that's what I wanted to say about bodyguarding :-

If you haven't got a held action, then the best you can do is
get in front of the target, and provide Partial cover, that's
covered by movement, and as aush is a FREE ACTION.

Now, if you want to actively take a bullet, then that ought to
require an action, probably a simple (to allow you to draw
your own piece and fire back, otherwise you're in real trouble).

Phil (Renegade)
Message no. 53
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: Bodyguards
Date: Fri, 26 May 1995 10:45:17 +0200
>Personally, my characters use Cerska Vz-120's loading APDS or XX and a
>smart-II, with head shots, more conceablable, better clip, less
>threatening (ie you get in more places with it), and when you're as
>good a shot as renegade, just as deadly.

Actually you've got a point there... if you're a character of the caliber
Richie Cyberhead (don't ask :), you're virtually just as deadly with a vz120
as with a Panther Cannon... I mean, Deadly is Deadly no matter what the
weapon, isn't it? *grin*


Gurth@******.nl - Gurth@***.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
I need an easy friend
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B? e+ u+@ h! f--(?) !r(--)(*) n---->!n y? Unofficial Shadowrun Guru :)
Message no. 54
From: Paul Jonathan Adam <Paul@********.DEMON.CO.UK>
Subject: Re: Bodyguards
Date: Sat, 27 May 1995 02:13:16 GMT
> >Personally, my characters use Cerska Vz-120's loading APDS or XX and a
> >smart-II, with head shots, more conceablable, better clip, less
> >threatening (ie you get in more places with it), and when you're as
> >good a shot as renegade, just as deadly.
>
> Actually you've got a point there... if you're a character of the caliber
> Richie Cyberhead (don't ask :), you're virtually just as deadly with a vz120
> as with a Panther Cannon... I mean, Deadly is Deadly no matter what the
> weapon, isn't it? *grin*

With Firearms 10 and 13 dice combat pool, a hold-out pistol hidden in a
belt buckle (check out Charter Arms' .22WMR revolver) kills most enemies
on the first shot, especially with an action to aim. It is not nice to do
that to someone, but NPC survivors and other PCs learn that hold-outs
can kill and so are a little more respectful of them in future.

--
When you have shot and killed a man, you have defined your attitude towards
him. You have offered a definite answer to a definite problem. For better
or for worse, you have acted decisively.
In fact, the next move is up to him.

Paul J. Adam paul@********.demon.co.uk
Message no. 55
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: Bodyguards
Date: Sat, 27 May 1995 12:00:32 +0200
>With Firearms 10 and 13 dice combat pool, a hold-out pistol hidden in a
>belt buckle (check out Charter Arms' .22WMR revolver) kills most enemies
>on the first shot, especially with an action to aim. It is not nice to do
>that to someone, but NPC survivors and other PCs learn that hold-outs
>can kill and so are a little more respectful of them in future.

I think must praise myself lucky in that I have a player who actually thinks
about my situation. Take for example the shaman character with the Mob Mind
spell. That spell can totally fuck up your best plans, because suddenly the
sec guards decide to let those runners walk on through without checking them
or anything. But usually, the player goes "I _could_ just cast Mob Mind, but
that's not very nice on you, so I won't" :)


Gurth@******.nl - Gurth@***.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
"Did we fire in that club?" "No." "Then we're still welcome
there."
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Message no. 56
From: Marc A Renouf <jormung@*****.UMICH.EDU>
Subject: Re: Bodyguards
Date: Mon, 29 May 1995 22:37:48 -0400
On Fri, 26 May 1995, Gurth wrote:

> Actually you've got a point there... if you're a character of the caliber
> Richie Cyberhead (don't ask :), you're virtually just as deadly with a vz120
> as with a Panther Cannon... I mean, Deadly is Deadly no matter what the
> weapon, isn't it? *grin*

True, but only to a point. It's so much easier to absolutely
slay people beyond any hope of medical help or magical healing when you
*start out* at a D damage code, though. Body overflow only goes so far,
ya know.

Marc

Further Reading

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