Logs for ShadowRN and Associated Mailing Lists

From:	dghost@**.com dghost@**.com
Subject:	Bone Disposal
Date:	Sat, 16 Oct 1999 23:37:37 -0700

Message no. 1 Here's a nifty spell taken from the Ghoul's Spell Book of Evidence
Disposal.

Bone Eater. Disolves bones (Transforms bone to dust)
Major Physical transformation: Base Drain S
Physical Spell: +1 T#
Touch Range: -1 Drain Level
Target # 4
Instant Duration
Force 3
Very Restricted Target (Metahuman Skeletons): -1 Drain Level
Permanent Spell: +1 Drain Level

(F/2)+1M

Correct?

Thanks to K for the help :)

--
D. Ghost
Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend.
Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read.
-Groucho Marx

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From:	Sommers sommers@*****.umich.edu
Subject:	Bone Disposal
Date:	Sun, 17 Oct 1999 12:34:40 -0400

Message no. 2 At 02:37 AM 10/17/99 , dghost@****.com wrote:
>Here's a nifty spell taken from the Ghoul's Spell Book of Evidence
>Disposal.
>
>Bone Eater. Disolves bones (Transforms bone to dust)
>Major Physical transformation: Base Drain S
>Physical Spell: +1 T#
>Touch Range: -1 Drain Level
>Target # 4
>Instant Duration
>Force 3
>Very Restricted Target (Metahuman Skeletons): -1 Drain Level
>Permanent Spell: +1 Drain Level
>
>(F/2)+1M
>
>Correct?

I think the mechanics are okay. There's just one problem. How do you see
the target of the spell? That's one hell of a line-of-sight problem.

Sommers
Insert witty quote here.

From:	lomion lomion@*********.escnd1.sdca.home.com
Subject:	Bone Disposal
Date:	Sun, 17 Oct 1999 10:09:18 -0700

Message no. 3 >I think the mechanics are okay. There's just one problem. How do you see
>the target of the spell? That's one hell of a line-of-sight problem.

I may be wrong but i think it was meant to work on non-living tissue, like
the bones AFTER the ghoul eats the flesh.

I wouldn;t allow something like this to be used on a living being it's just
too nasty.

--lomion

From:	Gurth gurth@******.nl
Subject:	Bone Disposal
Date:	Sun, 17 Oct 1999 19:31:34 +0200

Message no. 4 According to Sommers, at 12:34 on 17 Oct 99, the word on
the street was...

> >Bone Eater. Disolves bones (Transforms bone to dust)
> >Major Physical transformation: Base Drain S
> >Physical Spell: +1 T#
> >Touch Range: -1 Drain Level
> >Target # 4
> >Instant Duration
> >Force 3
> >Very Restricted Target (Metahuman Skeletons): -1 Drain Level
> >Permanent Spell: +1 Drain Level
> >
> >(F/2)+1M
> >
> >Correct?
>
> I think the mechanics are okay. There's just one problem. How do you see
> the target of the spell? That's one hell of a line-of-sight problem.

I think the idea is to destroy the bones after you've eaten the meat off
of them. At any rate it would be impossible to cast the spell on a living
target even if you can see part of the skeleton (easy enough to do with
some rudimentary surgery ;) because you can't generally affect part of a
target with a spell.

The only trouble I see with the spell is that, if you take its description
literally, you need a metahuman _skeleton_ rather than some metahuman
_bones_ to be able to cast it...

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
"Remember that all the items in the equipment lists are obviously
not available anywhere." --Gemini RPG, p. 100
-> NAGEE Editor * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
->The Plastic Warriors Page: http://shadowrun.html.com/plasticwarriors/<-
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From:	dghost@**.com dghost@**.com
Subject:	Bone Disposal
Date:	Sun, 17 Oct 1999 14:18:49 -0700

Message no. 5 On Sun, 17 Oct 1999 19:31:34 +0200 "Gurth" <gurth@******.nl> writes:
> According to Sommers, at 12:34 on 17 Oct 99, the word on
> the street was...
<SNIP>
>> I think the mechanics are okay. There's just one problem. How do you
see
>> the target of the spell? That's one hell of a line-of-sight problem.

>I think the idea is to destroy the bones after you've eaten the meat off

>of them.
<SNIP>

Correct.

> The only trouble I see with the spell is that, if you take its
description
> literally, you need a metahuman _skeleton_ rather than some metahuman
> _bones_ to be able to cast it...

Easily fixed by changing the spell description, but why whould it be a
problem? generally, you would have a full skeleton after stripping the
flesh from the body. Regardless, isn't an incomplete skeleton still a
skeleton? (Btw, I just checked ... I originally defined the target as a
metahuman skeletal remains.)

--
D. Ghost
Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend.
Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read.
-Groucho Marx
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From:	Ereskanti@*.com Ereskanti@*.com
Subject:	Bone Disposal
Date:	Sun, 17 Oct 1999 16:20:14 EDT

Message no. 6 In a message dated 10/17/1999 12:06:41 AM US Eastern Standard Time,
dghost@****.com writes:

> Here's a nifty spell taken from the Ghoul's Spell Book of Evidence
> Disposal.

Oh so *that* is what you are going to call it.

> Bone Eater. Disolves bones (Transforms bone to dust)

I was actually pushing for "Body to Dust" ... I see Ghouls as being
incredibly picky from time to time and not eating all the grissel on some of
their meals.... ;-p

> Major Physical transformation: Base Drain S
> Physical Spell: +1 T#
> Touch Range: -1 Drain Level
> Target # 4
> Instant Duration
> Force 3
> Very Restricted Target (Metahuman Skeletons): -1 Drain Level

Dead Metahuman Bodies, not just skeletons

> Permanent Spell: +1 Drain Level
>
> (F/2)+1M
> Correct?
>
> Thanks to K for the help :)

Not a problem. If the spell design system were still as nuts as the old
system used to be, this could have gone farther though, I'm sure.

-K

From:	Paul Gettle RunnerPaul@*****.com
Subject:	Bone Disposal
Date:	Sun, 17 Oct 1999 19:10:49 -0400

Message no. 7 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

At 02:18 PM 10/17/99 -0700, dghost@****.com wrote:
:Easily fixed by changing the spell description, but why whould it be
: a problem? generally, you would have a full skeleton after
:stripping the flesh from the body.

"Fluffy! Come back with that femur right NOW!"

What, you've never heard of a ghoul having a pet dog? :)

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--
-- Paul Gettle, #970 of 1000 (RunnerPaul@*****.com)
PGP Fingerprint, Key ID:0x48F3AACD (RSA 1024, created 98/06/26)
C260 94B3 6722 6A25 63F8 0690 9EA2 3344

From:	dghost@**.com dghost@**.com
Subject:	Bone Disposal
Date:	Sun, 17 Oct 1999 19:21:45 -0700

Message no. 8 On Sun, 17 Oct 1999 19:10:49 -0400 Paul Gettle <RunnerPaul@*****.com>
writes:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> At 02:18 PM 10/17/99 -0700, dghost@****.com wrote:
> :Easily fixed by changing the spell description, but why whould it be
> : a problem? generally, you would have a full skeleton after
> :stripping the flesh from the body.

> "Fluffy! Come back with that femur right NOW!"
>
> What, you've never heard of a ghoul having a pet dog? :)

Hey!!! Do ya think dogs could become ghouls? Gotta have some way of
getting rid of table scraps ...

--
D. Ghost
Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend.
Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read.
-Groucho Marx

___________________________________________________________________
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From:	Ereskanti@*.com Ereskanti@*.com
Subject:	Bone Disposal
Date:	Mon, 18 Oct 1999 01:35:42 EDT

Message no. 9 In a message dated 10/17/1999 11:35:28 AM US Eastern Standard Time,
sommers@*****.umich.edu writes:

>
> At 02:37 AM 10/17/99 , dghost@****.com wrote:
> >Here's a nifty spell taken from the Ghoul's Spell Book of Evidence
> >Disposal.
> >
> >Bone Eater. Disolves bones (Transforms bone to dust)
> I think the mechanics are okay. There's just one problem. How do you see
> the target of the spell? That's one hell of a line-of-sight problem.

Sommers, I snipped out most of the spell's mechanics, so that perhaps you can
see the beginning of the post and your own question in relative nearness to
one another.

Ghoul - Bone Disposal (Evidence?) ----

Get it?

-K

From:	Ereskanti@*.com Ereskanti@*.com
Subject:	Bone Disposal
Date:	Mon, 18 Oct 1999 01:41:16 EDT

Message no. 10 In a message dated 10/17/1999 6:14:48 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
RunnerPaul@*****.com writes:

> :Easily fixed by changing the spell description, but why whould it be
> : a problem? generally, you would have a full skeleton after
> :stripping the flesh from the body.
>
> "Fluffy! Come back with that femur right NOW!"
>
> What, you've never heard of a ghoul having a pet dog? :)

OMG!!! Paul, you have given me one-hell of an idea.......everyone is gonna
*REALLY* hate me now... ;-P

-K

From:	Ereskanti@*.com Ereskanti@*.com
Subject:	Bone Disposal
Date:	Mon, 18 Oct 1999 01:48:12 EDT

Message no. 11 In a message dated 10/17/1999 7:45:30 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
dghost@****.com writes:

>
> > "Fluffy! Come back with that femur right NOW!"
> >
> > What, you've never heard of a ghoul having a pet dog? :)
>
> Hey!!! Do ya think dogs could become ghouls? Gotta have some way of
> getting rid of table scraps ...

Okay, this *IS* a question we've had bouncing around in the games a LONG time
ago (back when Reflex had his first barghest). I know that in fictional
writings (mostly since the creation of Movies/Cinema/TV, the idea of having a
"Beast" transformed by such is possible.

"Forever Knight" had such an event, involving a seeing-eye dog for a woman
who was infected, and then in turn infected his mistress (which cured her
vision no less).

"Dracula" had a "Devil Dog" of some form in one of the older
"Bela Lugosi"
time-range classics.

It is an interesting idea, particularly if you are going to involve
characters like Martin deVries (Forever Drug) and/or the Ordo Maximus. Would
definitely make things interesting....

-K
[Hoosier Hacker House]
[http://members.aol.com/hhackerh/intro.htm]
ICQ#-51511837

From:	dghost@**.com dghost@**.com
Subject:	Bone Disposal
Date:	Mon, 18 Oct 1999 01:20:51 -0700

Message no. 12 On Mon, 18 Oct 1999 01:41:16 EDT Ereskanti@***.com writes:
> In a message dated 10/17/1999 6:14:48 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
> RunnerPaul@*****.com writes:
<SNIP>
> > "Fluffy! Come back with that femur right NOW!"
> >
> > What, you've never heard of a ghoul having a pet dog? :)

> OMG!!! Paul, you have given me one-hell of an idea.......everyone is
gonna
> *REALLY* hate me now... ;-P

Oooo! Share!

--
D. Ghost
Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend.
Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read.
-Groucho Marx

___________________________________________________________________
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From:	dghost@**.com dghost@**.com
Subject:	Bone Disposal
Date:	Mon, 18 Oct 1999 01:12:27 -0700

Message no. 13 On Mon, 18 Oct 1999 01:48:12 EDT Ereskanti@***.com writes:
> In a message dated 10/17/1999 7:45:30 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
> dghost@****.com writes:
<SNIP>
> > Hey!!! Do ya think dogs could become ghouls? Gotta have some way of
> > getting rid of table scraps ...

> Okay, this *IS* a question we've had bouncing around in the games a
LONG time
> ago (back when Reflex had his first barghest). I know that in
fictional
> writings (mostly since the creation of Movies/Cinema/TV, the idea of
having a
> "Beast" transformed by such is possible.
<SNIP>

So ... would puppy gnaw on peeps or other puppies?

--
D. Ghost
Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend.
Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read.
-Groucho Marx

___________________________________________________________________
Get the Internet just the way you want it.
Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month!
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From:	Ereskanti@*.com Ereskanti@*.com
Subject:	Bone Disposal
Date:	Mon, 18 Oct 1999 04:14:29 EDT

Message no. 14 In a message dated 10/18/1999 1:32:56 AM US Eastern Standard Time,
dghost@****.com writes:

> > Okay, this *IS* a question we've had bouncing around in the games a
> LONG time
> > ago (back when Reflex had his first barghest). I know that in
> fictional
> > writings (mostly since the creation of Movies/Cinema/TV, the idea of
> having a
> > "Beast" transformed by such is possible.
> <SNIP>
>
> So ... would puppy gnaw on peeps or other puppies?

In the "Forever Knight" episode, the dog preyed on people. I'm not sure what
the restrictions might be. I know that in Anne's "Interview" series of
Vampires, it does say its' possible to live off of "non-humans", but it's
tasteless and/or difficult to do so. We have actually adapted the "Blood
Sacrifices" rules in Aztlan Sourcebook if a vampire wants to feed off a
"non-human". There are "Force Point" limits that a sacrifice of a
given
level can "fuel" a blood spirit. We use similar rules for "number of
essence
points" that a Vampire can actually be able to use.

-K
[Hoosier Hacker House]
[http://members.aol.com/hhackerh/intro.htm]
ICQ#-51511837

From:	Gurth gurth@******.nl
Subject:	Bone Disposal
Date:	Mon, 18 Oct 1999 13:09:58 +0200

Message no. 15 According to dghost@****.com, at 14:18 on 17 Oct 99, the word on
the street was...

> > The only trouble I see with the spell is that, if you take its description
> > literally, you need a metahuman _skeleton_ rather than some metahuman
> > _bones_ to be able to cast it...
>
> Easily fixed by changing the spell description, but why whould it be a
> problem? generally, you would have a full skeleton after stripping the
> flesh from the body. Regardless, isn't an incomplete skeleton still a
> skeleton? (Btw, I just checked ... I originally defined the target as a
> metahuman skeletal remains.)

I know, I was picking nits on the spell description. I myself would use it
as "metahuman bones" rather than "metahuman skeleton" just to avoid
any
potential problems with the GM :)

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
"Remember that all the items in the equipment lists are obviously
not available anywhere." --Gemini RPG, p. 100
-> NAGEE Editor * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
->The Plastic Warriors Page: http://shadowrun.html.com/plasticwarriors/<-
-> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-

GC3.1: GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ UL P L+ E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+
PE Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998

From:	Sommers sommers@*****.edu
Subject:	Bone Disposal
Date:	Mon, 18 Oct 1999 08:19:56 -0400

Message no. 16 At 01:35 AM 10/18/99 -0400, you wrote:
>In a message dated 10/17/1999 11:35:28 AM US Eastern Standard Time,
>sommers@*****.umich.edu writes:
>
> >
> > At 02:37 AM 10/17/99 , dghost@****.com wrote:
> > >Here's a nifty spell taken from the Ghoul's Spell Book of Evidence
> > >Disposal.
> > >
> > >Bone Eater. Disolves bones (Transforms bone to dust)
> > I think the mechanics are okay. There's just one problem. How do you see
> > the target of the spell? That's one hell of a line-of-sight problem.
>
>Sommers, I snipped out most of the spell's mechanics, so that perhaps you can
>see the beginning of the post and your own question in relative nearness to
>one another.
>
>Ghoul - Bone Disposal (Evidence?) ----
>
>Get it?
>
>-K

Got it. I was skimming through and didn't quite register the whole thing. I
thought that Ghoul was the name of the character and that the Evidence
Disposal part... uh, I guess I just, missed that part. :)

Sommers
Insert witty quote here.

From:	Paul Gettle RunnerPaul@*****.com
Subject:	Bone Disposal
Date:	Mon, 18 Oct 1999 10:41:29 -0400

Message no. 17 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

At 07:21 PM 10/17/99 -0700, dghost@****.com wrote:
:> "Fluffy! Come back with that femur right NOW!"
:>
:> What, you've never heard of a ghoul having a pet dog? :)
:
:Hey!!! Do ya think dogs could become ghouls? Gotta have some way of
:getting rid of table scraps ...

If they could, "wet ghoul-dog" must be the worst smell in the world.

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--
-- Paul Gettle, #970 of 1000 (RunnerPaul@*****.com)
PGP Fingerprint, Key ID:0x48F3AACD (RSA 1024, created 98/06/26)
C260 94B3 6722 6A25 63F8 0690 9EA2 3344

From:	Paul Gettle RunnerPaul@*****.com
Subject:	Bone Disposal
Date:	Mon, 18 Oct 1999 10:50:23 -0400

Message no. 18 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

At 01:20 AM 10/18/99 -0700, dghost@****.com wrote:
:::What, you've never heard of a ghoul having a pet dog? :)
::
::OMG!!! Paul, you have given me one-hell of an idea.......everyone
::is gonna *REALLY* hate me now... ;-P
:
:Oooo! Share!

Yes, Please.

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--
-- Paul Gettle, #970 of 1000 (RunnerPaul@*****.com)
PGP Fingerprint, Key ID:0x48F3AACD (RSA 1024, created 98/06/26)
C260 94B3 6722 6A25 63F8 0690 9EA2 3344

From:	Ereskanti@*.com Ereskanti@*.com
Subject:	Bone Disposal
Date:	Mon, 18 Oct 1999 14:57:18 EDT

Message no. 19 In a message dated 10/18/1999 9:51:16 AM US Eastern Standard Time,
RunnerPaul@*****.com writes:

> At 01:20 AM 10/18/99 -0700, dghost@****.com wrote:
> :::What, you've never heard of a ghoul having a pet dog? :)
> ::
> ::OMG!!! Paul, you have given me one-hell of an idea.......everyone
> ::is gonna *REALLY* hate me now... ;-P
> :
> :Oooo! Share!
>
> Yes, Please.

Its' pretty lame now that I've had time to actually sleep on it. I've got a
decker who has a Barghest. He's rapidly becoming one of the centers of
attention (again ... I can feel a *rant* about leading ones' players around
by the hand coming on again) and it would just strike me as funny if the
Decker were to become a Ghoul and keep the Barghest around (he won't admit
it, but its' one of the 4 things in his life he actually loves). With the
help of certain tidbits of knowledge, it would be possible to "hide" the
Ghoul concepts fairly easily (this goes beyond standard concepts of cologne)
and with minimal stuff.

AND, at the same time it could possibly give him some direct insight into the
Astral space concept (where Billie the Barghest also has some interaction
with). Basically I'm just thinking about ways to expand the character and
still allow for playability.

Hmmm ... "Ghouldom" could lead to problems though ... gonna have to think
about this more ...

-K
[Hoosier Hacker House]
[http://members.aol.com/hhackerh/intro.htm]
ICQ#-51511837

From:	lomion lomion@*********.escnd1.sdca.home.com
Subject:	Bone Disposal
Date:	Mon, 18 Oct 1999 12:58:22 -0700

Message no. 20 >
>AND, at the same time it could possibly give him some direct insight into the
>Astral space concept (where Billie the Barghest also has some interaction
>with). Basically I'm just thinking about ways to expand the character and
>still allow for playability.
>
>Hmmm ... "Ghouldom" could lead to problems though ... gonna have to think
>about this more ...

What happens if he gets the munchies while on a run somewhere?

--lomion

From:	Ereskanti@*.com Ereskanti@*.com
Subject:	Bone Disposal
Date:	Tue, 19 Oct 1999 00:58:17 EDT

Message no. 21 In a message dated 10/18/1999 2:57:16 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
lomion@*********.escnd1.sdca.home.com writes:

>
> What happens if he gets the munchies while on a run somewhere?

We did have at one time something very twisted to get around this. A
combination of Nutrition Spell/Simsense Playback system. The spell took care
of the actual "physical" needs, and the Playback took care of the "need to
feed". One would be started first (the playback) and the other would be
performed during its' operation.

-K
[Hoosier Hacker House]
[http://members.aol.com/hhackerh/intro.htm]
ICQ#-51511837

From:	Rand Ratinac docwagon101@*****.com
Subject:	Bone Disposal
Date:	Mon, 18 Oct 1999 22:43:46 -0700 (PDT)

Message no. 22 <Snippola(TM)>
> It is an interesting idea, particularly if you are
going to involve characters like Martin deVries
(Forever Drug) and/or the Ordo Maximus. Would
definitely make things interesting....
> -K

Only one thing to say on this subject. Martin deVries
was in The Terminus Experiment, not The Forever Drug.
Well, I can't DEFINITIVELY say the latter, as I'm
still reading it, but I'm up to page 170-odd and it
doesn't look likely that he or the Ordo Maximus are
going to make an appearance in that last 100 pages. :)
He was, however, most definitely in The Terminus
Experiment.

Interesting book. Didn't like how it ended. But I'm a
soppy romantic at heart.

*Doc' denies ever saying that, dammit!*

====Doc'
(aka Mr. Freaky Big, Super-Dynamic Troll of Tomorrow)

.sig Sauer
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com

From:	BRUCE gyro@********.co.za
Subject:	Bone Disposal
Date:	Tue, 19 Oct 1999 09:22:44 +0200

Message no. 23 -----Original Message-----
From: Ereskanti@***.com <Ereskanti@***.com>
To: shadowrn@*********.org <shadowrn@*********.org>
Date: 19 October 1999 07:03
Subject: Re: Bone Disposal

>In a message dated 10/18/1999 2:57:16 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
>lomion@*********.escnd1.sdca.home.com writes:
>
>>
>> What happens if he gets the munchies while on a run somewhere?
>
>We did have at one time something very twisted to get around this. A
>combination of Nutrition Spell/Simsense Playback system. The spell
took care
>of the actual "physical" needs, and the Playback took care of the
"need to
>feed". One would be started first (the playback) and the other would
be
>performed during its' operation.
>
>-K

Doesnt this method just shortcut the disadvantages of being a ghoul?
Letting one of these "things" into a group is tantamount to saying
"we're cool with cannabilism" after all. Casting spells and hooking
the ghoul up to simsense seems like a shortcut and I for one would not
allow it at all. Just my opinion.

Bruce <gyro@********.co.za>
RULE NO 1:
DONT GET CAUGHT

From:	Airwasp@*.com Airwasp@*.com
Subject:	Bone Disposal
Date:	Tue, 19 Oct 1999 04:10:44 EDT

Message no. 24 In a message dated 10/18/99 1:58:39 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
Ereskanti@***.com writes:

> Its' pretty lame now that I've had time to actually sleep on it. I've got
a
> decker who has a Barghest. He's rapidly becoming one of the centers of
> attention (again ... I can feel a *rant* about leading ones' players
around
> by the hand coming on again) and it would just strike me as funny if the
> Decker were to become a Ghoul and keep the Barghest around (he won't admit
> it, but its' one of the 4 things in his life he actually loves). With the
> help of certain tidbits of knowledge, it would be possible to "hide" the
> Ghoul concepts fairly easily (this goes beyond standard concepts of
cologne)
>
> and with minimal stuff.
>
> AND, at the same time it could possibly give him some direct insight into
> the
> Astral space concept (where Billie the Barghest also has some interaction
> with). Basically I'm just thinking about ways to expand the character and
> still allow for playability.
>
> Hmmm ... "Ghouldom" could lead to problems though ... gonna have to think
> about this more ...
>
> -K

Ahh, but K, don't you think the jokes that would flow should Donny become a
ghoul?!?

Archer, my pc, could go about cracking jokes about Donny finally could eat
Banshee out for now for real.

I think I see lots of potential for perversion coming should Donny become a
ghoul ...

:}

-Mike
------- Who is liking not having the responsibility of GMing for the moment,
until January 18 rolls around next year.

From:	abortion_engine abortion_engine@*******.com
Subject:	Bone Disposal
Date:	Tue, 19 Oct 1999 08:15:33 -0400

Message no. 25 > > What happens if he gets the munchies while on a run somewhere?
>
> We did have at one time something very twisted to get around this. A
> combination of Nutrition Spell/Simsense Playback system. The spell took
care
> of the actual "physical" needs, and the Playback took care of the
"need to
> feed". One would be started first (the playback) and the other would be
> performed during its' operation.
>
Why not use "Fast." Am I missing something?

From:	abortion_engine abortion_engine@*******.com
Subject:	Bone Disposal
Date:	Tue, 19 Oct 1999 08:21:24 -0400

Message no. 26 > >> What happens if he gets the munchies while on a run somewhere?
> >
> >We did have at one time something very twisted to get around this. A
> >combination of Nutrition Spell/Simsense Playback system. The spell
> took care
> >of the actual "physical" needs, and the Playback took care of the
> "need to
> >feed". One would be started first (the playback) and the other would
> be
> >performed during its' operation.
> >
> >-K
>
> Doesnt this method just shortcut the disadvantages of being a ghoul?
> Letting one of these "things" into a group is tantamount to saying
> "we're cool with cannabilism" after all. Casting spells and hooking
> the ghoul up to simsense seems like a shortcut and I for one would not
> allow it at all. Just my opinion.
>
So...you're _not_ cool with cannibalism?

From:	Ereskanti@*.com Ereskanti@*.com
Subject:	Bone Disposal
Date:	Tue, 19 Oct 1999 13:59:39 EDT

Message no. 27 In a message dated 10/19/1999 12:29:45 AM US Eastern Standard Time,
docwagon101@*****.com writes:

> Only one thing to say on this subject. Martin deVries
> was in The Terminus Experiment, not The Forever Drug.
> Well, I can't DEFINITIVELY say the latter, as I'm
> still reading it, but I'm up to page 170-odd and it
> doesn't look likely that he or the Ordo Maximus are
> going to make an appearance in that last 100 pages. :)
> He was, however, most definitely in The Terminus
> Experiment.
>
> Interesting book. Didn't like how it ended. But I'm a
> soppy romantic at heart.

Doc', you are of course correct. That's what I get for reading 4 of the
books I was behind on all inside of a couple days....

-K
[Hoosier Hacker House]
[http://members.aol.com/hhackerh/intro.htm]
ICQ#-51511837

From:	dghost@**.com dghost@**.com
Subject:	Bone Disposal
Date:	Tue, 19 Oct 1999 13:39:38 -0700

Message no. 28 On Tue, 19 Oct 1999 04:10:44 EDT Airwasp@***.com writes:
> In a message dated 10/18/99 1:58:39 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
> Ereskanti@***.com writes:
<SNIP>
> Ahh, but K, don't you think the jokes that would flow should Donny
become a
> ghoul?!?
<SNIP>
> I think I see lots of potential for perversion coming should Donny
become a
> ghoul ...
>
> :}

"Another kidnapping job? ... Hey Donny! We're getting take-out!" :)

--
D. Ghost
Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend.
Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read.
-Groucho Marx

___________________________________________________________________
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Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month!
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From:	Raije murk@****.org.au
Subject:	Bone Disposal
Date:	Wed, 20 Oct 1999 17:47:05 +1000

Message no. 29 > Doesnt this method just shortcut the disadvantages of being a ghoul?
> Letting one of these "things" into a group is tantamount to saying
> "we're cool with cannabilism" after all. Casting spells and hooking
> the ghoul up to simsense seems like a shortcut and I for one would not
> allow it at all. Just my opinion.

yes, but somebody in the 'real' world would develop a spell for it
anyway...it would only be a matter of time. And only the smart ghouls would
use it soo...

From:	BRUCE gyro@********.co.za
Subject:	Bone Disposal
Date:	Wed, 20 Oct 1999 11:03:22 +0200

Message no. 30 -----Original Message-----
From: Raije <murk@****.org.au>
To: shadowrn@*********.org <shadowrn@*********.org>
Date: 20 October 1999 10:53
Subject: Re: Bone Disposal

>
>> Doesnt this method just shortcut the disadvantages of being a
ghoul?
>> Letting one of these "things" into a group is tantamount to saying
>> "we're cool with cannabilism" after all. Casting spells and hooking
>> the ghoul up to simsense seems like a shortcut and I for one would
not
>> allow it at all. Just my opinion.
>
>yes, but somebody in the 'real' world would develop a spell for it
>anyway...it would only be a matter of time. And only the smart
ghouls would
>use it soo...

I'm sure R&D mages would be working on that. Captive market dont you
know. There was also a bequest from Dunky for the first person or corp
to develop ghoul food that did not depend on human pain and suffering
or some such.

My point was just that having a ghoul around should sicken the other
characters or there's no real downside to being ghoulish, besides
being ugly and blind. well... besides the smell

Bruce <gyro@********.co.za>
RULE NO 1:
DONT GET CAUGHT

From:	dghost@**.com dghost@**.com
Subject:	Bone Disposal
Date:	Wed, 20 Oct 1999 08:04:17 -0700

Message no. 31 On Wed, 20 Oct 1999 17:47:05 +1000 "Raije" <murk@****.org.au> writes:
>
> > Doesnt this method just shortcut the disadvantages of being a ghoul?
> > Letting one of these "things" into a group is tantamount to saying
> > "we're cool with cannabilism" after all. Casting spells and hooking
> > the ghoul up to simsense seems like a shortcut and I for one would
not
> > allow it at all. Just my opinion.

> yes, but somebody in the 'real' world would develop a spell for it
> anyway...it would only be a matter of time. And only the smart ghouls
would
> use it soo...

Additionally, it's only a temporary shortcut. A strict GM would say that
it puts off the craving for a few days. A lenient GM would say that it
puts off the craving for (Force + successes) weeks. (Figuring that in 24
hours, humans need 2 meals, divide by 2. So 1 meal every 12 hours.) I'm
inclined to go with the first one then the ghoul is required to eat
"normally".

Hmmm ... Can this spell postpone a Vampire's Essence Loss? :)

Speaking of getting around ghoulish disadvantages, my ghoul mage uses
Makeover and Healthy Glow regularly. :)

--
D. Ghost
Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend.
Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read.
-Groucho Marx

___________________________________________________________________
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From:	Ereskanti@*.com Ereskanti@*.com
Subject:	Bone Disposal
Date:	Wed, 20 Oct 1999 21:53:20 EDT

Message no. 32 In a message dated 10/19/1999 7:22:56 AM US Eastern Standard Time,
abortion_engine@*******.com writes:

> > >We did have at one time something very twisted to get around this. A
> > >combination of Nutrition Spell/Simsense Playback system. The spell
> > took care
> > >of the actual "physical" needs, and the Playback took care of the
> > "need to
> > >feed". One would be started first (the playback) and the other would
> > be
> > >performed during its' operation.
> > Doesnt this method just shortcut the disadvantages of being a ghoul?
> > Letting one of these "things" into a group is tantamount to saying
> > "we're cool with cannabilism" after all. Casting spells and hooking
> > the ghoul up to simsense seems like a shortcut and I for one would not
> > allow it at all. Just my opinion.

I apologize for not snipping my original post/portion, but others might get
confused if I did do so.

The drawbacks to being a Ghoul are far more than what you are saying their
eating habits/requirements are. They are Dual Natured, yet Physically Blind.
They *SMELL* all to high heaven and everywhere below. Visually, if one were
to look at them, they are visually displeasing to most people's eyes'.
Medically speaking, no public/legal location is going to work on them (nor
will many illegal ones for that matter) should they be so drastically wounded
as to require such.

Additionally, and this may rile some backs here, but think of it this way?
Have you, or anyone else you know, ever been *watched* or *looked at* by
someone with "Predators' Eyes?" If you think about it, you know exactly what
I mean. Whenever you notice this person, they look at you like you are
something for them to *have* in some manner. I'm *very* certain there are a
number of female list-members who know what I mean. And a few of the guys
who have met *ME* may know what I mean as well.

That's the way a Ghoul is likely to "look" at someone.

> So...you're _not_ cool with cannibalism?

I think you have this the other way around, or maybe I'm just completely lost
with the question.

-K
[Hoosier Hacker House]
[http://members.aol.com/hhackerh/intro.htm]
ICQ#-51511837

From:	Ereskanti@*.com Ereskanti@*.com
Subject:	Bone Disposal
Date:	Wed, 20 Oct 1999 23:01:34 EDT

Message no. 33 In a message dated 10/20/1999 8:31:23 AM US Eastern Standard Time,
dghost@****.com writes:

> Additionally, it's only a temporary shortcut. A strict GM would say that
> it puts off the craving for a few days. A lenient GM would say that it
> puts off the craving for (Force + successes) weeks. (Figuring that in 24
> hours, humans need 2 meals, divide by 2. So 1 meal every 12 hours.) I'm
> inclined to go with the first one then the ghoul is required to eat
> "normally".

Actually, we found a way to indicate the Nutrition spell's function, using a
guideline for SR3. The spell's net (2 for 1) successes (limited 'nets' by
the force of the spell) would be multiplied times the casters' magic
attribute equals the number of hours the "Nutritional Value" would be
functional. *MOST* magicians wouldn't get very much out of this, even with
the relatively low target number, at most 6 to 12 hours.

> Hmmm ... Can this spell postpone a Vampire's Essence Loss? :)

No, but we've had a version of the spell called "Essential Nutrition" that
does work, but not extremely well using rules *exactly* like the ones for
"Nutrition" we've adopted listed above.

> Speaking of getting around ghoulish disadvantages, my ghoul mage uses
> Makeover and Healthy Glow regularly. :)

Actually, BTB (by the book), Healthy Glow is something you do NOT want to use
on a Ghoul as it does nothing more than remove the "dead skill cells, dried
up hair or body oil". Which, in turn, would actually expose the "fresher",

more "aromatic" layers of bodily whatever. In turn, you'd only be making
their "social situation" all that much worse IMO.

-K
[Hoosier Hacker House]
[http://members.aol.com/hhackerh/intro.htm]
ICQ#-51511837

From:	dghost@**.com dghost@**.com
Subject:	Bone Disposal
Date:	Thu, 21 Oct 1999 00:42:39 -0700

Message no. 34 On Wed, 20 Oct 1999 21:53:20 EDT Ereskanti@***.com writes:
> In a message dated 10/19/1999 7:22:56 AM US Eastern Standard Time,
> abortion_engine@*******.com writes:
>
>>>>We did have at one time something very twisted to get around this. A
>>>>combination of Nutrition Spell/Simsense Playback system.
<SNIP>

>>>Doesnt this method just shortcut the disadvantages of being a ghoul?
<SNIP>

<SNIP>
>The drawbacks to being a Ghoul are far more than what you are saying
their
>eating habits/requirements are.

>They are Dual Natured,

That's a perk and a disadvantage ... an intiate with masking can probably
avoid most astral attention but the problem is astral barriers.

>yet Physically Blind.

Fixable with cybereyes ... I think. The SR3Co is rather hazy and
self-contradictory on that issue. On one hand, according to the blind
flaw, the blindness cannot be cured with cybereyes. However, the
description of ghouls implies that some ghouls cure their blindness with
cybereyes.

> They *SMELL* all to high heaven and everywhere below. Visually, if
one were
> to look at them, they are visually displeasing to most people's eyes'.

Wouldn't the Makeover and Healthy Glow spells counteract this?

> Medically speaking, no public/legal location is going to work on them
(nor
> will many illegal ones for that matter) should they be so drastically
wounded
> as to require such.

Hmmm ... *ponders a ghoul with Doc Wagon Platinum service* This is
actually, an interesting idea. Would a privatised medical establishment
turn away a ghoul in need of treatment? I would think that they would
treat him and turn him over to the authorities. I can see ghouls going
to Shamanistic (Shadow) Healers (not necessarily Shamans), particularly
those who follow the Bear Totem. In fact I wrote up a character, a Dark
King Shaman / Streetdoc, who would not turn away such patients. (I
treated his clinic as a biotech facility, IIRC.)

> Additionally, and this may rile some backs here, but think of it this
way?
> Have you, or anyone else you know, ever been *watched* or *looked at*
by
> someone with "Predators' Eyes?" If you think about it, you know
exactly what
> I mean. Whenever you notice this person, they look at you like you are

> something for them to *have* in some manner. I'm *very* certain there
are a
> number of female list-members who know what I mean. And a few of the
guys
> who have met *ME* may know what I mean as well.
>
> That's the way a Ghoul is likely to "look" at someone.
<SNIP>

Actually, I wish I could do that look for when I play my Ghoul Spider
(Black Widow) Shamaness.

I see ghouls as having two looks. They may interchange between the two
or use both at the same time depending on the ghoul's personality. The
first is the "Predator's Eyes" you described above, and the other is the
pentrating vision. The look that makes you feel like the person is
looking straight into your soul rather than at you. If it's possible to
use both, the result must be creeeepy! I don't think it's a concious
decision how they look at you, rather it's defined by their personality.

--
D. Ghost
Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend.
Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read.
-Groucho Marx

___________________________________________________________________
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Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj.

From:	Ereskanti@*.com Ereskanti@*.com
Subject:	Bone Disposal
Date:	Thu, 21 Oct 1999 03:54:36 EDT

Message no. 35 In a message dated 10/21/1999 1:11:53 AM US Eastern Standard Time,
dghost@****.com writes:

> >The drawbacks to being a Ghoul are far more than what you are saying
> their
> >eating habits/requirements are.
>
> >They are Dual Natured,
>
> That's a perk and a disadvantage ... an intiate with masking can probably
> avoid most astral attention but the problem is astral barriers.

For the most part true. Please note though, that there *IS* an option in
MitS (and Grimoire for that matter) on how to offset this entirely.

> >yet Physically Blind.
>
> Fixable with cybereyes ... I think. The SR3Co is rather hazy and
> self-contradictory on that issue. On one hand, according to the blind
> flaw, the blindness cannot be cured with cybereyes. However, the
> description of ghouls implies that some ghouls cure their blindness with
> cybereyes.

I've read both sets of "rules" myself, and wish it had been more clearly
stated. In our games, the first gen Ghouls *can* be corrected with cyber,
but the second gen cannot.

> > They *SMELL* all to high heaven and everywhere below. Visually, if
> one were
> > to look at them, they are visually displeasing to most people's eyes'.
>
> Wouldn't the Makeover and Healthy Glow spells counteract this?

Nope, see my other post for the reasoning.

> Hmmm ... *ponders a ghoul with Doc Wagon Platinum service* This is
> actually, an interesting idea. Would a privatised medical establishment
> turn away a ghoul in need of treatment? I would think that they would
> treat him and turn him over to the authorities. I can see ghouls going
> to Shamanistic (Shadow) Healers (not necessarily Shamans), particularly
> those who follow the Bear Totem. In fact I wrote up a character, a Dark
> King Shaman / Streetdoc, who would not turn away such patients. (I
> treated his clinic as a biotech facility, IIRC.)

Would be an interesting twist on things, I'll give you that.

> Actually, I wish I could do that look for when I play my Ghoul Spider
> (Black Widow) Shamaness.

LOL!!!

> I see ghouls as having two looks. They may interchange between the two
> or use both at the same time depending on the ghoul's personality. The
> first is the "Predator's Eyes" you described above, and the other is the
> pentrating vision. The look that makes you feel like the person is
> looking straight into your soul rather than at you. If it's possible to
> use both, the result must be creeeepy! I don't think it's a concious
> decision how they look at you, rather it's defined by their personality.

Actually, please believe me when I say it isn't personality. Not entirely.
Strength of character ... MAYBE ... but opinions would vary widely.

-K
[Hoosier Hacker House]
[http://members.aol.com/hhackerh/intro.htm]
ICQ#-51511837

From:	BRUCE gyro@********.co.za
Subject:	Bone Disposal
Date:	Thu, 21 Oct 1999 11:48:53 +0200

Message no. 36 <Large Schnipp>

>> Speaking of getting around ghoulish disadvantages, my ghoul mage
uses
>> Makeover and Healthy Glow regularly. :)
>
>Actually, BTB (by the book), Healthy Glow is something you do NOT
want to use
>on a Ghoul as it does nothing more than remove the "dead skill cells,
dried
>up hair or body oil". Which, in turn, would actually expose the
"fresher",
>more "aromatic" layers of bodily whatever. In turn, you'd only be
making
>their "social situation" all that much worse IMO.
>
>-K

Well now, that's not a pretty picture.

Bruce <gyro@********.co.za>
RULE NO 1:
DONT GET CAUGHT

From:	dghost@**.com dghost@**.com
Subject:	Bone Disposal
Date:	Thu, 21 Oct 1999 07:46:21 -0700

Message no. 37 On Wed, 20 Oct 1999 23:01:34 EDT Ereskanti@***.com writes:
> In a message dated 10/20/1999 8:31:23 AM US Eastern Standard Time,
> dghost@****.com writes:
<SNIP>
> > Speaking of getting around ghoulish disadvantages, my ghoul mage
uses
> > Makeover and Healthy Glow regularly. :)

> Actually, BTB (by the book), Healthy Glow is something you do NOT want
to use
> on a Ghoul as it does nothing more than remove the "dead skill cells,
dried
> up hair or body oil". Which, in turn, would actually expose the
"fresher",
> more "aromatic" layers of bodily whatever. In turn, you'd only be
making
> their "social situation" all that much worse IMO.

I don't see anything saying that ghouls have layers of dead skin and no
normal skin underneath ... where are you getting this? I think that
these spell cast _on_a_regular_basis_ can in fact help out a ghoul's skin
condition.

--
D. Ghost
Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend.
Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read.
-Groucho Marx

___________________________________________________________________
Get the Internet just the way you want it.
Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month!
Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj.

From:	Ereskanti@*.com Ereskanti@*.com
Subject:	Bone Disposal
Date:	Thu, 21 Oct 1999 12:43:13 EDT

Message no. 38 In a message dated 10/21/1999 8:11:28 AM US Eastern Standard Time,
dghost@****.com writes:

>
> I don't see anything saying that ghouls have layers of dead skin and no
> normal skin underneath ... where are you getting this? I think that
> these spell cast _on_a_regular_basis_ can in fact help out a ghoul's skin
> condition.

Alfredo, think of the *GHOUL*, not of the *SPELL* and you'll understand.
Sweat glands are deeper than the outermost layer of the epidermis. Think of
the Ghoul's physiology. *THINK* of what a *PREDATOR* smells like to another
being.

Have you seen Jurassic Park: Lost World? (or whatever it was called?). Do
you remember the area where the T-Rex lair was? It was littered with their
refuse and leftover tidbits. Think of your own house. Think of what *our*
trash is comprised of. Is *any* part of it "remnants" from people that were
our last dinner? (God, I do hope not here ;-).

Predators have a particular *odor* that anybody else is sensitive to. Though
people's inherent sense of smell has been diminished over time, the sense of
"Predator of People" has *NOT* been removed from us. Body physiology
(Digestive Tract and Excretory System) are both highly responsive to the
dietary measures we have or partake of. It is literally *part* of their
overall body chemistry, and as such no spell is going to so readily get rid
of "the smell" or the "skin appearance" so readily. Its' an effect of
what
makes a Ghoul, a *GHOUL*.

I guess I could concede that Healthy Glow *might* temporarily help with the
physical appearance a bit for a very short while. But not for long, and not
as a long-term measure by any means (hell, the Ghoul's astral signature will
start to show signs of heavy magical inundation after a while even).

-K (who gives up on the topic, just because he is)
[Hoosier Hacker House]
[http://members.aol.com/hhackerh/intro.htm]
ICQ#-51511837

From:	dghost@**.com dghost@**.com
Subject:	Bone Disposal
Date:	Thu, 21 Oct 1999 20:23:39 -0700

Message no. 39 >In a message dated 10/21/1999 8:11:28 AM US Eastern Standard Time,
>dghost@****.com writes:
>> I don't see anything saying that ghouls have layers of dead skin and
no
>> normal skin underneath ... where are you getting this? I think that
>> these spell cast _on_a_regular_basis_ can in fact help out a ghoul's
skin
>> condition.

On Thu, 21 Oct 1999 12:43:13 EDT Ereskanti@***.com writes:

Hey, btw, my spell checker wanted to change your name to Elegant. :)

> Alfredo, think of the *GHOUL*, not of the *SPELL* and you'll
understand.
> Sweat glands are deeper than the outermost layer of the epidermis.
Think of
> the Ghoul's physiology.

I am thinking of the ghoul and the spell. From SR3Co:
1 Body order can be hidden by perfumes.
2 Skin Condition can be corrected with plastic surgery.
3 Their eyes can be replaced with cybereyes o look normal.

It is my opinion that the Makeover spell can help with 1 since it
includes "... cosmetics, hair, and clothes. It even polishes teeth and
eliminates plaque." (page 147, MitS). Their skin condition could
conceivably be alleviated temporarily by the Healthy Glow spell.

> *THINK* of what a *PREDATOR* smells like to another
> being.

I strongly doubt predators have a predatory smell. They may give off
predatory cues, but that is a different matter entirely.

> Have you seen Jurassic Park: Lost World? (or whatever it was called?).
Do
> you remember the area where the T-Rex lair was? It was littered with
their
> refuse and leftover tidbits. Think of your own house. Think of what
*our*
> trash is comprised of. Is *any* part of it "remnants" from people that
were
> our last dinner? (God, I do hope not here ;-).

How does someone's trash affect how they are received by those not
rummaging through the garbage?

> Predators have a particular *odor* that anybody else is sensitive to.

Maybe if they don't floss and bathe. Otherwise, they should have a
"normal" scent. Can you come up to me and tell, without seeing me eat, if
I'm a vegetarian or not? (I'm actually fairly carnivorous. :)

> Though
> people's inherent sense of smell has been diminished over time, the
sense of
> "Predator of People" has *NOT* been removed from us. Body physiology
> (Digestive Tract and Excretory System) are both highly responsive to
the
> dietary measures we have or partake of. It is literally *part* of
their
> overall body chemistry, and as such no spell is going to so readily get
rid
> of "the smell" or the "skin appearance" so readily. Its' an
effect of
what
> makes a Ghoul, a *GHOUL*.

I disagree. I believe proper hygiene could go a long way towards
concealing a ghoul's nature.

> I guess I could concede that Healthy Glow *might* temporarily help with
the
> physical appearance a bit for a very short while. But not for long,
and not
> as a long-term measure by any means (hell, the Ghoul's astral signature
will
> start to show signs of heavy magical inundation after a while even).

I disagree. I don't really think Healthy Glow does all that much. It's
kind of like a day at a health spa compacted into 15 seconds (or less).

> -K (who gives up on the topic, just because he is)

Because you are ...what? Or do I want to know? You did make a comment
about human remains in YOUR trash ... ;)

--
D. Ghost
Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend.
Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read.
-Groucho Marx

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