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Message no. 1
From: Aristotle aristotle@********.net
Subject: boomerangs?
Date: Tue, 04 May 1999 07:08:53 -0400
*sigh*

I have this player.. he wants a boomerang like weapon (the thingie Xena
uses) Shakram (sp?)

Anyhow I know how thrown weapons work, but how would you GM the
retrieval of a flying weapon? Just allow it to be instant, or should
there be a roll? How long after throwing should it return?

I could also use some ranges for this thing..

Thanks again,
--Aristotle
Message no. 2
From: Iridios iridios@*********.com
Subject: boomerangs?
Date: Tue, 04 May 1999 08:55:30 -0400
Aristotle wrote:
>
> *sigh*
>
> I have this player.. he wants a boomerang like weapon (the thingie Xena
> uses) Shakram (sp?)

I thought it was Chakra or Chakram. On top of that, I'm under the
impression that it isn't a boomerang, because the few times I've seen
Xena it always ricochet's off things to return to her.

>
> Anyhow I know how thrown weapons work, but how would you GM the
> retrieval of a flying weapon? Just allow it to be instant, or should
> there be a roll? How long after throwing should it return?

For retrieval I would use another skill roll with a base target of 4
modified for wounds only, only 1 success needed to catch. I would
also make the catch a simple action. An alternative method is to use
a "catch threshold" in the skill roll when thrown. I.e. Enough
successes ensure that the thower is able to catch the returning
Chakram.


>
> I could also use some ranges for this thing..

Definately strength based, maybe equivalent to the airfoil grenades
found in the BBB (either edition)

--
Iridios
"God does not roll dice"
-Albert Einstein
Message no. 3
From: Slipspeed atreloar@*********.com
Subject: boomerangs?
Date: Tue, 4 May 1999 23:52:35 +1000
> Anyhow I know how thrown weapons work, but how would you GM the
> retrieval of a flying weapon? Just allow it to be instant, or should
> there be a roll? How long after throwing should it return?

Ok, first, there's two types of boomerangs. Hunting boomerangs and
returning boomerangs. The first are larger, heavier and have less of a
curve. They return (eventually), but well wide of the point of throwing.

Second, you didn't make this clear, so I'll point out the obvious anyway.
If a boomerang hits something, it DOESN'T come back. Hunting boomerangs are
closer to predictable, aerodynamic throwing sticks than to the mythical
things you see on tv about them returning after hitting something.

Ok, for technical stuff... Boomerangs generally take 10+ seconds to return
to their owner. Assuming it's thrown correctly. I would NOT allow
boomerangs to come under throwing weapons, unless the character specifically
specialised in boomerang (perhaps as a seperate, specialist skill?).
Throwing the thing is easy. Getting it to hit something, however, is pretty
tricky, given it's flight path is not a straight line. Getting it to return
even remotely close to the thrower is well nigh impossible without lots of
practice - take it from someone that spent a few months trying to do it.
All in all, it's a lot more complicated than throwing grenades, knives or
even shuriken. It's as big a difference as firing a crossbow as compared to
a grenade launcher - similar in theory, but they're under seperate skills
for a reason.

Assuming you want the boomerang to return, you need to throw it into the
wind, too. That severely limits the usefulness of the returning feature.

As for catching things, assuming you throw it correctly and it'll return
close to you, it's not that hard with a little practice. About the same
difficulty as catching that grenade someone just threw over the fence.
Reaction 6, or maybe Athletics 6 test.

> I could also use some ranges for this thing..

Hunting boomerangs would have a maximum range of about 50m, assuming you're
not trying to return it. Returning boomerangs about 30m. In both cases,
about 2/3rds of the range if you want it to return. Returning boomerangs,
in the hands of a skilled person (which I am not anymore) can return to
exactly the point of origin. Hunting boomerangs vary between 5 and 10m
wide, again assuming very good skill. In the case of an amateur, you'd be
lucky for it to return at all, nevermind to you. Anywhere from 20 - 30m
from the origin is a fair bet. Or more.

Give it about a 6M (stun) damage code. The thrower's strength determines
how far it goes, but from what I saw, not how hard it hits, due to it's
spin. Skill would still stage the damage up, however.

As famed as they are in Australian culture, they're not the best of weapons.
The Aborigines used the woomera much more, and with more effect. The
boomerang was generally used to hunt birds and small ground wildlife. And
to scare the living sh*t out of any white man that happened to be nearby.
Trust me, having one of those whiz by is scary, nevermind it hitting you.
Play up on that as much as possible, particularly with those that aren't
immune to shock in combat, eg 10 year veteran mercenaries (for example...
Don't take that as my grading for experience needed). Startling the
security guards is an understatement.

For the reference of any interested, the woomera is a stick used to give
extra leverage when launching spears. Very effective.

Slipspeed

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts
can be counted" - Albert Einstein
Adam Treloar aka Guardian, Slipspeed
atreloar@*********.com
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1900/
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Message no. 4
From: Ulrich Haupt sandman@****.uni-oldenburg.de
Subject: boomerangs?
Date: Tue, 04 May 1999 17:02:14 +0200
Iridios wrote:
>
> Aristotle wrote:
<snip>
> > Anyhow I know how thrown weapons work, but how would you GM the
> > retrieval of a flying weapon? Just allow it to be instant, or should
> > there be a roll? How long after throwing should it return?
>
> For retrieval I would use another skill roll with a base target of 4
> modified for wounds only, only 1 success needed to catch. I would
I'd stronly advice to include visibility modifiers too! Try
catching a ball you threw about 3m/10ft high in near
darkness/during the night. I didn't catch it many times. =-)


> also make the catch a simple action. An alternative method is to use
> a "catch threshold" in the skill roll when thrown. I.e. Enough
> successes ensure that the thower is able to catch the returning
> Chakram.
I don't think that a good throw also provides good catching.
A second skill roll doesn't hurt. And a simle action is O.K.


> >
> > I could also use some ranges for this thing..
>
> Definately strength based, maybe equivalent to the airfoil grenades
> found in the BBB (either edition)
A good idea (for reason's and simplicity's sake)

Though SR doesn't take into account the time
item's(especially hand grenades) needs to fly boomerangs
need ae least double of the time (I'd say thrice) to fly to
the target, miss it and return to the wielder. If I where
the GM the boomerang would need always the same time of one
combat turn (3seconds). That seems realistic to me. (Hey -
Xena didn't fight against enemies with FA weapons, or did
she? I've never seen more than 3 minutes)
Important is the room needed for the circle of the
boomerang. I'd apply 15m/45ft though that depends mainly of
the weight of the boomerang.

Sandman
Message no. 5
From: Neil Goodwin neil@***************.freeserve.co.uk
Subject: boomerangs?
Date: Tue, 4 May 1999 16:24:52 +0100
>> Slipspeed Said

>> Anyhow I know how thrown weapons work, but how would you GM the
>> retrieval of a flying weapon? Just allow it to be instant, or
>>should
>> there be a roll? How long after throwing should it return?
>
>Ok, first, there's two types of boomerangs. Hunting boomerangs and
>returning boomerangs. The first are larger, heavier and have less of
>a
>curve. They return (eventually), but well wide of the point of
>throwing.
>
>Second, you didn't make this clear, so I'll point out the obvious
>anyway.
>If a boomerang hits something, it DOESN'T come back. Hunting
>boomerangs are
>closer to predictable, aerodynamic throwing sticks than to the
>mythical
>things you see on tv about them returning after hitting something.
>
>Ok, for technical stuff...

<Snip>

You could use magic:

A new adept power to throw a boomerang so it returned to you with any
wind
direction (if it didn't hit) and missile parry to catch it.

A new type of weapon focus that returns to you when you throw it
(Again only if it didn't hit). With no bonus dice to the attack. You
still need to be awakened to use it though.

Enchant a boomerang to become a sustaining focus, then cast a return
to owner spell on it to activate a couple of seconds after leaving
your hand(Levitate / Fling type of spell). You might be want to use
metamagic to do this. And it may take a while to get the magician to
agree to bonding with a focus thats designed to be thrown away....

Use weather control to change the wind direction... ok, so it's a
critter power, but wouldn't it be usefull to be downwind of your
target
all the time. (and a little light rain to make visibilty less and the
guards less attentive :-)

Don't throw it, use the spell fling to do it, then it should be easy
to get it to return to you. Or throw it as one complex action and use
a spell to bring it back to you as a second complex action. Then it
will return even if it hits them. (Use spellcasting talent as an
advantage???)

Bob

'When in doubt, reflux for another hour'
Message no. 6
From: Strago strago@***.com
Subject: boomerangs?
Date: Tue, 04 May 1999 11:59:43 -0400
Neil Goodwin wrote:

> >> Slipspeed Said
>
> >> Anyhow I know how thrown weapons work, but how would you GM the
> >> retrieval of a flying weapon? Just allow it to be instant, or
> >>should
> >> there be a roll? How long after throwing should it return?
> >
> ><Snip discussion of boomerangs in general>

What most who are reading this thread are missing is that Xena's weapon is
NOT a boomerang. For those who don't know what the Chakram is, here goes:a
metallic disk with sharpened edges. Xena throws the Chakram, it spins, hit
someone, and either embeds itself in them or cuts something off, bounces
around off walls, and then back to her waiting hand.

--
--Strago, who watches too much TV

SRGC v0.2 !SR1 SR2++ !SR3 h b++ B- UB- IE+ RN++ sa++ ma++ ad+ m+ (o++ d+)
gm+ M-
Message no. 7
From: runnerpaul@*****.com runnerpaul@*****.com
Subject: boomerangs?
Date: Tue, 4 May 1999 12:29:08 -0400 (EDT)
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

At 12:05 PM 5/4/1999 +0100, Neil Goodwin wrote:
>>Ok, first, there's two types of boomerangs. Hunting boomerangs and
>>returning boomerangs.
<<Snip>>
>>Second, you didn't make this clear, so I'll point out the obvious
>>anyway.
>>If a boomerang hits something, it DOESN'T come back. Hunting
>>boomerangs are
>>closer to predictable, aerodynamic throwing sticks than to the
>>mythical
>>things you see on tv about them returning after hitting something.
>>
>>Ok, for technical stuff...
>
><Snip>
>
>You could use magic:
<<Snip Neil's list>>

Here's one more for the list of magical boomerangs:
Ally Spirit, with the power of Three-Dimensional Movement, Inhabiting
a boomerang homunculus.

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Message no. 8
From: Gurth gurth@******.nl
Subject: boomerangs?
Date: Tue, 4 May 1999 20:36:44 +0200
According to Aristotle, at 7:08 on 4 May 99, the word on
the street was...

> I have this player.. he wants a boomerang like weapon (the thingie Xena
> uses) Shakram (sp?)

Chakram. It's an Indian weapon (i.e., from India), and I doubt they come
back to you IRL after throwing, since it's basically just a ring.

> Anyhow I know how thrown weapons work, but how would you GM the
> retrieval of a flying weapon? Just allow it to be instant, or should
> there be a roll? How long after throwing should it return?

I'd make it a Quickness test, TN 4 or so, plus wound mods of course. This
assumes the weapon has been thrown in such a way that it will come back,
for which I would add perhaps a +1 or +2 to the TN as I imagine it's more
difficult to throw a boomerang in such a way that it returns to you on
missing the target, than to simply throw it away at someone.

> I could also use some ranges for this thing..

According to The Compendium of Weapons, Armour & Castles (by Matthew
Balent, Palladium Books 1981-91) effective range is about 25 m. Assuming
this is for an average person (Strength 3), I'd put its SR ranges at these
figures:

Short: to Strength x 3
Medium: to Strength x 5
Long: to Strength x 8
Extreme: to Strength x 12 (or maybe Strength x 15)

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Another year and then you'll be happy.
-> NERPS Project Leader * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
->The Plastic Warriors Page: http://shadowrun.html.com/plasticwarriors/<-
-> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-

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Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 9
From: Mongoose m0ng005e@*********.com
Subject: boomerangs?
Date: Tue, 4 May 1999 16:38:22 -0500
> I could also use some ranges for this thing..

According to The Compendium of Weapons, Armour & Castles (by Matthew
Balent, Palladium Books 1981-91) effective range is about 25 m. Assuming
this is for an average person (Strength 3), I'd put its SR ranges at these
figures:

Short: to Strength x 3
Medium: to Strength x 5
Long: to Strength x 8
Extreme: to Strength x 12 (or maybe Strength x 15)

-- ++++++++++++++

If this is for true returning boomerangs, one thing to note is that
their flight path doesn't change much; they go out so far, loop around, and
come back. How far they go out and how wide the loop is depends on how they
are designed (I've owned a few- they ones that come back well are far to
light for use as weapons). You can throw them at something close, but don't
expect it to come back if used in a small space.
The Chakrum is a different story- its not designed with returning in
mind. Yeah, it might ricochet and come back, but I don't think it would be
at all easy to throw it with that in mind in most cases, and you'd best wear
armored gauntlets when catching it. Unless you have the adept power
"missile parry", that is...

Mongoose
Message no. 10
From: Robert Watkins robert.watkins@******.com
Subject: boomerangs?
Date: Wed, 5 May 1999 09:30:16 +1000
As the first gen-u-wine dinkie-die true-blue Ozzie to comment on this topic,
I thought I'd throw in a few cultural stereotypes. :)

Adam had a fairly good summary of the two types of boomerangs and what they
are used for. He also had the two types down pat: heavy hunting boomerangs,
that won't return to you (maybe nearby, but not to you), and light-weight
boomerangs that can loop back to you.

What he didn't make clear is that you need a LOT of room for these things.
They do not take a straight line or even a ballistic path to the target.
They curve out to the side, and quite a long way at that.

Straight Line to Target
Me: -------------------------X
\ /
\ /
\____________________/
Boomerang path

That's about as clear as I can get with ASCII.

Anyway, only tribes from the more desertish areas (ie, everywhere where you
can't see the ocean, just about) used these. You need a lot of room to the
sides to throw them, and hitting a tree on the way sort of stuffs you up.

OTH, the effects can be pretty deadly. The lightweight ones can hit a bird
and still get back to you (if you hit the bird right, you won't lose too
much momentum, and it picks it back up on the way down again), and I've seen
birds picked off on the wing. The bigger ones leave a serious dint in the
side of anything they hit: I've seen (on the same trip) an Aboriginal use
one to knock down a 70-kilo kangaroo.

--
.sig deleted to conserve electrons. robert.watkins@******.com
Message no. 11
From: Slipspeed atreloar@*********.com
Subject: boomerangs?
Date: Wed, 5 May 1999 15:06:14 +1000
> As the first gen-u-wine dinkie-die true-blue Ozzie to comment on this
topic,
> I thought I'd throw in a few cultural stereotypes. :)

What am I then, chopped liver? I'm a Brisbanite, one of those prolific
scary people that make #shadowrun cringe when they see me enter. :)

> What he didn't make clear is that you need a LOT of room for these things.
> They do not take a straight line or even a ballistic path to the target.
> They curve out to the side, and quite a long way at that.

Oh yes... One obvious point I missed.

Slipspeed

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts
can be counted" - Albert Einstein
Adam Treloar aka Guardian, Slipspeed
atreloar@*********.com
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1900/
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Message no. 12
From: Slipspeed atreloar@*********.com
Subject: boomerangs?
Date: Wed, 5 May 1999 15:12:24 +1000
<snip stuff>

> Don't throw it, use the spell fling to do it, then it should be easy
> to get it to return to you. Or throw it as one complex action and use
> a spell to bring it back to you as a second complex action. Then it
> will return even if it hits them. (Use spellcasting talent as an
> advantage???)

Err, fling likely wouldn't work. the spell accelerates the object towards
the target, sure. But when throwing a boomerang the motion of the arm gives
the boomerang it's spinning characteristic, allowing it to arc and
eventually return to it's sender. Fling doesn't the way I see it. Use
fling on a knife and the knife flies straight at it's target, point first
all the way (assuming you're wanting to hit the guy with the pointy end.
:) ). It doesn't spin the knife like all the good movies do. Doing the
same thing to a boomerang (Using fling to accelerate it in a straight line)
would make the boomerang into the equivalent of throwing a rock. Which
ruins the point of throwing the boomerang.

Slipspeed

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts
can be counted" - Albert Einstein
Adam Treloar aka Guardian, Slipspeed
atreloar@*********.com
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1900/
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Message no. 13
From: Robert Watkins robert.watkins@******.com
Subject: boomerangs?
Date: Wed, 5 May 1999 15:06:49 +1000
> > As the first gen-u-wine dinkie-die true-blue Ozzie to comment on this
> topic,
> > I thought I'd throw in a few cultural stereotypes. :)
>
> What am I then, chopped liver? I'm a Brisbanite, one of those prolific
> scary people that make #shadowrun cringe when they see me enter. :)

You should get an Australian free web site, then... ;) If you insist on
passing yourself off as an American, what do you expect?

> Adam Treloar aka Guardian, Slipspeed
> atreloar@*********.com
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1900/
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

(To be honest, I thought I knew all the Brisbanites... must have missed one)

--
.sig deleted to conserve electrons. robert.watkins@******.com
Message no. 14
From: dghost@****.com dghost@****.com
Subject: boomerangs?
Date: Wed, 5 May 1999 00:11:51 -0500
On Tue, 04 May 1999 07:08:53 -0400 Aristotle <aristotle@********.net>
writes:
>*sigh*
>
>I have this player.. he wants a boomerang like weapon (the thingie Xena
>uses) Shakram (sp?)
>
>Anyhow I know how thrown weapons work, but how would you GM the
>retrieval of a flying weapon? Just allow it to be instant, or should
>there be a roll? How long after throwing should it return?
>
>I could also use some ranges for this thing..

This may or may not help but AD&D has stats for a Chakram in the Player's
Option: Skills & Powers. It is listed as a Middle Eastern and an
Oriental Weapon with ranges of 20 Yards (short), 40 Yards (medium), and
60 Yards (Long). I would reccomend ranges of:
Short 0-Strx2
Medium Strx4
Long Strx10
Extreme Strx15
There isn't any mention of the Chakram returning to the thrower ... If
you want an idea of the difficulty of getting to return, play with a
frisbee. It's the same thing, basicly.

--
D. Ghost
(aka Pixel)
"Hello, my name is Stephen. This is Dick. He'll see if he has something
your size." -- Jug Ears

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Message no. 15
From: dghost@****.com dghost@****.com
Subject: boomerangs?
Date: Wed, 5 May 1999 00:15:20 -0500
On Tue, 4 May 1999 12:29:08 -0400 (EDT) runnerpaul@*****.com writes:
>-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>
>At 12:05 PM 5/4/1999 +0100, Neil Goodwin wrote:
>>>Ok, first, there's two types of boomerangs. Hunting boomerangs and
>>>returning boomerangs.
><<Snip>>
>>>Second, you didn't make this clear, so I'll point out the obvious
anyway.
>>>If a boomerang hits something, it DOESN'T come back. Hunting
boomerangs are
>>>closer to predictable, aerodynamic throwing sticks than to the
mythical
>>>things you see on tv about them returning after hitting something.
>>>
>>>Ok, for technical stuff...

>><Snip>
>>
>>You could use magic:
><<Snip Neil's list>>

>Here's one more for the list of magical boomerangs:
>Ally Spirit, with the power of Three-Dimensional Movement, Inhabiting
>a boomerang homunculus.

Uhm ... one problem: The Ally in the above example would have to resist
damage (though I'd give it a substantial it of armor). That whole
equal-and-opposite-force-type-thing is a bugger. :)

--
D. Ghost
(aka Pixel)
"Hello, my name is Stephen. This is Dick. He'll see if he has something
your size." -- Jug Ears

___________________________________________________________________
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Message no. 16
From: Gurth gurth@******.nl
Subject: boomerangs?
Date: Wed, 5 May 1999 10:50:38 +0200
According to Mongoose, at 16:38 on 4 May 99, the word on
the street was...

> If this is for true returning boomerangs

Well, no. The ranges I gave were for a chakram. For boomerangs, the book
gives an effective range of 20 m.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Another year and then you'll be happy.
-> NERPS Project Leader * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
->The Plastic Warriors Page: http://shadowrun.html.com/plasticwarriors/<-
-> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-

GC3.1: GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+
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Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 17
From: runnerpaul@*****.com runnerpaul@*****.com
Subject: boomerangs?
Date: Wed, 5 May 1999 09:21:33 -0400 (EDT)
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

At 12:15 AM 5/5/1999 -0500, dghost@****.com wrote:
>>Here's one more for the list of magical boomerangs:
>>Ally Spirit, with the power of Three-Dimensional Movement,
>Inhabiting
>>a boomerang homunculus.
>
>
>Uhm ... one problem: The Ally in the above example would have to
>resist
>damage (though I'd give it a substantial it of armor). That whole
>equal-and-opposite-force-type-thing is a bugger. :)

Do you also make someone with oh, say, titanium bone lacing take
(STR+4)M damage to their fist when they punch someone? ;)

And anyway, depending on what you build the Ally Spirit Boomerang out
of, it gets automatic armor. Make it out of Iron, and it has
Ballistic/Impact Armor of 8.

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--
-- Paul Gettle, #970 of 1000 (RunnerPaul@*****.com)
PGP Fingerprint, Key ID:0x48F3AACD (RSA 1024, created 98/06/26)
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Message no. 18
From: Mockingbird mockingbird@*********.com
Subject: boomerangs?
Date: Wed, 5 May 1999 09:09:19 -0500
----- Original Message -----
From: <dghost@****.com>
To: <shadowrn@*********.org>
Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 1999 12:11 AM
Subject: Re: boomerangs?


> There isn't any mention of the Chakram returning to the thrower ... If
> you want an idea of the difficulty of getting to return, play with a
> frisbee. It's the same thing, basicly.
>
Hi,
Just to throw some fuel on the fire, does anyone else remeber the three
limbed boomerang taht came out in the eighties (can't remeber what it was
called). As I recall, they also came out with a round one (had the round
one, pretty sure it returned). It looked just like a chakum. Now make it
out of titanium with an edge, wouldn't want to try to catch it, but it might
work. Opinions?

Mockingbird
Message no. 19
From: Nexx Many-Scars nexx@********.net
Subject: boomerangs?
Date: Wed, 5 May 1999 10:42:56 -0500
----- Original Message -----
From: Mockingbird <mockingbird@*********.com>
> >
> Hi,
> Just to throw some fuel on the fire, does anyone else remeber the
three
> limbed boomerang taht came out in the eighties (can't remeber what it was
> called). As I recall, they also came out with a round one (had the round
> one, pretty sure it returned). It looked just like a chakum. Now make
it
> out of titanium with an edge, wouldn't want to try to catch it, but it
might
> work. Opinions?

The Aerobie (the round one) did not return... it's claim to fame was that
it flew far. Nerf Boomerangs did return, if you got good with them (and
didn't aim for your brother)

*****
Nexx Many-Scars
aka Mark Hall
*
Three hateful things in speech: stiffness, obscurity, a bad delivery.
*
http://www-personal.interkan.net/~nexx/mainpage.html
-Last Update: 2-5-99
Message no. 20
From: Kelson kelson13@***********.com
Subject: boomerangs?
Date: Wed, 05 May 1999 09:05:08 -0700
On Wed, 5 May 1999 09:09:19 Mockingbird wrote:

>Hi,
> Just to throw some fuel on the fire, does anyone else remeber the three
>limbed boomerang taht came out in the eighties (can't remeber what it was
>called). As I recall, they also came out with a round one (had the round
>one, pretty sure it returned). It looked just like a chakum. Now make it
>out of titanium with an edge, wouldn't want to try to catch it, but it might
>work. Opinions?

Sure. You're misremembering. ;) The "round one" was the Aerobie (sp?) and it
was a frisbee, not a boomerang. Round things don't generally return all that well...

Xena's Chakram doesn't return. She's just very good at richocheting it off things
multiple times to where it usually "returns" to her. This isn't always the
case. If you take into account the other ridiculous manuvers she can perform in combat,
this fits right in. Chakram's don't return. That doesn't mean the player can't make an
item that does such. Of course, the R&D costs for doing so are generally prohibitive
(not to mention the amount of time it takes). If the player would rather richochet the
Chakram off multiple items so it would return to him, the TN would get pretty high pretty
fast. (I'd figure the base TN at 4 plus wound, movment, cover, and vision mods - then add
+2 for each "bounce" you wanted the item to make to account for a sort of called
shot type modifier. So, your first TN could be a 6 or 8, for example, to hit the first
target [tree, building corner, NPC, whatever] then, the TN would go up by 2 for the next
target, etc. It would probably take a good 3 or 4 "bounces" before you could
get it back in your general direction, so you can see how the TN would get high very fast.
Then you'd have to make a Quickness test or some such just to catch it without cutting
your hand off.....fun.) It's a tv show, for crissake. ;)
It doesn't always translate over well to an RPG medium.

>Mockingbird

Justin


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Message no. 21
From: Brett Borger bxb121@***.edu
Subject: boomerangs?
Date: Wed, 5 May 1999 12:26:32 -0400 (EDT)
> The Aerobie (the round one) did not return... it's claim to fame was that
> it flew far. Nerf Boomerangs did return, if you got good with them (and
> didn't aim for your brother)

Actually, just like a frisbee, if you threw it at the right angle
upward, it would return...but you better run, because the Aerobie
(probably due to the speed it flew at, and the thinness of the edge)
HURT when it nailed you.

Or so MY brother says :)

-=SwiftOne=-
Message no. 22
From: dghost@****.com dghost@****.com
Subject: boomerangs?
Date: Wed, 5 May 1999 15:49:58 -0500
On Wed, 5 May 1999 09:09:19 -0500 "Mockingbird"
<mockingbird@*********.com> writes:
<SNIP>
>Hi,
> Just to throw some fuel on the fire, does anyone else remeber the
three
>limbed boomerang taht came out in the eighties (can't remeber what it
was
>called). As I recall, they also came out with a round one (had the
round
>one, pretty sure it returned). It looked just like a chakum. Now make
it
>out of titanium with an edge, wouldn't want to try to catch it, but it
might
>work. Opinions?

There is no reason for it to return ... the only exception might be if
different parts of the chakram were textured or shaped differently ...
Ask Adam G; he can explain it better than I. Of course, you can also get
it to return by throwing straight up. ;)

--
D. Ghost
(aka Pixel)
"Hello, my name is Stephen. This is Dick. He'll see if he has something
your size." -- Jug Ears

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Message no. 23
From: dghost@****.com dghost@****.com
Subject: boomerangs?
Date: Wed, 5 May 1999 16:01:25 -0500
On Wed, 5 May 1999 09:21:33 -0400 (EDT) runnerpaul@*****.com writes:
>-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>At 12:15 AM 5/5/1999 -0500, dghost@****.com wrote:
>>>Here's one more for the list of magical boomerangs:
>>>Ally Spirit, with the power of Three-Dimensional Movement, Inhabiting
>>>a boomerang homunculus.

>>Uhm ... one problem: The Ally in the above example would have to
>resist
>>damage (though I'd give it a substantial it of armor). That whole
>>equal-and-opposite-force-type-thing is a bugger. :)

>Do you also make someone with oh, say, titanium bone lacing take
>(STR+4)M damage to their fist when they punch someone? ;)
<SNIP>

If a character throws another character at someone/something, does the
thrown character come out of the experience unscathed?

--
D. Ghost
(aka Pixel)
"Hello, my name is Stephen. This is Dick. He'll see if he has something
your size." -- Jug Ears

___________________________________________________________________
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Message no. 24
From: runnerpaul@*****.com runnerpaul@*****.com
Subject: boomerangs?
Date: Wed, 5 May 1999 20:22:04 -0400 (EDT)
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

At 10:42 AM 5/5/1999 -0500, Nexx Many-Scars wrote:
>>As I recall, they also came out with a round one (had the round
>> one, pretty sure it returned). It looked just like a chakum. Now
>make
>it
>> out of titanium with an edge, wouldn't want to try to catch it, but

>it
>might
>> work. Opinions?
>
>
>The Aerobie (the round one) did not return... it's claim to fame was
>that
>it flew far.

However, Superflight Inc., the makers of the Aerobie, does manufacture
a product called the Aerobie Orbiter. It's a equilateral triangle
version of the Aerobie, designed by the same Stanford University
Engineering lecturer.

Boomerangs don't have to be V shaped; that just happened to be the
easiest shape for the original designers to work with, given the
materials available to them at the time. The airfoil shape responsible
for return flight can be incorporated into many different shapes, and
a triangle shape is ideal for this particular application.

For a combat boomerang, it'd be fairly easy to put an edge along the
outside of a triangular shape, and leave the inside edge blunt. To
catch the boomerang on it's return flight, the thrower just pokes his
hand through the center opening of the boomerang as it comes at him.

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--
-- Paul Gettle, #970 of 1000 (RunnerPaul@*****.com)
PGP Fingerprint, Key ID:0x48F3AACD (RSA 1024, created 98/06/26)
C260 94B3 6722 6A25 63F8 0690 9EA2 3344

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Message no. 25
From: Nexx Many-Scars nexx@********.net
Subject: boomerangs?
Date: Wed, 5 May 1999 20:07:28 -0500
----- Original Message -----
From: <runnerpaul@*****.com>
>
> For a combat boomerang, it'd be fairly easy to put an edge along the
> outside of a triangular shape, and leave the inside edge blunt. To
> catch the boomerang on it's return flight, the thrower just pokes his
> hand through the center opening of the boomerang as it comes at him.

Reminds me of something out of a David Eddings novel (I believe it was
Magicians Gambit), with what was called the "adder sting". Basically a
triangular throwing knife, skilled users could send it around corners or
make it come back... the tips were often dipped in poison (though you don't
want one of those to come back!)

*****
Nexx Many-Scars
aka Mark Hall
*
Three hateful things in speech: stiffness, obscurity, a bad delivery.
*
http://www-personal.interkan.net/~nexx/mainpage.html
-Last Update: 2-5-99
Message no. 26
From: Carmen Anthony J carmen.aj@******.com
Subject: Boomerangs
Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2000 11:15:00 -0400
Hey everyone, I was hoping I could pick your collective brains about a topic
one of my players brought up. We're starting a new campaign and she wants
to play a dwarf aborigine crocodile shaman (she's seen one too many episodes
of the Crocodile Hunter). My only problem is, what would be the stats for a
boomerang? Not only simple wooden ones, but also lightweight, aerodynamic
metal ones with sharpened edges. How would you work whether or not the
boomerang returns? I'm guessing that if the weapon misses, a second skill
roll would be needed to catch it (esp. the edged ones). If the weapon hits,
it probably doesn't return (unless she's Xena -- or it's a cinematic
campaign). I know next to nothing about boomerangs, so any help would be
greatly appreciated.

Thanx in advance,
Harvey Wallbanger

"Outside of a dog, a book is Man's best friend. And inside of a dog, it's
too dark to read."
--Groucho Marx

"I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed, or
numbered! My life is my own."
--No. 6; Arrival
Message no. 27
From: Simon and Fiona sfuller@******.com.au
Subject: Boomerangs
Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2000 09:21:31 +1000
-----Original Message-----
From: Carmen Anthony J <carmen.aj@******.com>
To: 'shadowrn@*********.com' <shadowrn@*********.com>
Date: Thursday, July 27, 2000 1:15 AM
Subject: Boomerangs


>Hey everyone, I was hoping I could pick your collective brains about a
topic
>one of my players brought up. We're starting a new campaign and she wants
>to play a dwarf aborigine crocodile shaman (she's seen one too many
episodes
>of the Crocodile Hunter). My only problem is, what would be the stats for
a
>boomerang? Not only simple wooden ones, but also lightweight, aerodynamic
>metal ones with sharpened edges. How would you work whether or not the
>boomerang returns? I'm guessing that if the weapon misses, a second skill
>roll would be needed to catch it (esp. the edged ones). If the weapon
hits,
>it probably doesn't return (unless she's Xena -- or it's a cinematic
>campaign). I know next to nothing about boomerangs, so any help would be
>greatly appreciated.
>
>Thanx in advance,
>Harvey Wallbanger
>
OK, first thing you need to know is that the boomerangs they used to hunt
with weren't designed to come back. They were much larger and heavier, and
one side was noticably longer than the other. Of course, this doesn't help
the cinematic side of Shadowrun, so ignore that. Second thing you need to
know is that the Crocodile Hunter is bullshit and a poser. Australians don't
bother watching his shows. Better to watch Mad Max II or whatever it is
called in America (assuming that's where you are from), the Feral Kid is
right up your alley for this kind of character. (By the way, the Feral Kid
is now a jeweller in Sydney, and is apparently pretty good too. Guess he
knew he'd never top his first performance).
I'd say that if you want a returning boomerang, you would need at least four
successes, and you would have to factor in the amount of damage it did too.
I'd also say that you'd need at least three successes to throw it at all, or
a skill of 5 or greater, one or the other, because they are buggers to
throw, especially with any kind of accuracy. In other words, it would be a
very difficult weapon to use, which is why other cultures like the Egyptians
gave it up millenia ago for spears and arrows. However, you could probably
offset that by saying it is very hard to dodge because of it's unusual
curved flight, and you could hit multiple targets if you get enough
successes.
Message no. 28
From: paul collins paulcollins@*******.com
Subject: Boomerangs
Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2000 19:21:27 +1000
----- Original Message -----
From: Simon and Fiona <sfuller@******.com.au>
To: <shadowrn@*********.com>
Sent: Thursday, July 27, 2000 9:21 AM
Subject: Re: Boomerangs


>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Carmen Anthony J <carmen.aj@******.com>
> To: 'shadowrn@*********.com' <shadowrn@*********.com>
> Date: Thursday, July 27, 2000 1:15 AM
> Subject: Boomerangs
>
>
> >Hey everyone, I was hoping I could pick your collective brains about a
> topic
> >one of my players brought up. We're starting a new campaign and she
wants
> >to play a dwarf aborigine crocodile shaman (she's seen one too many
> episodes
> >of the Crocodile Hunter). My only problem is, what would be the stats
for
> a
> >boomerang? Not only simple wooden ones, but also lightweight,
aerodynamic
> >metal ones with sharpened edges. How would you work whether or not the
> >boomerang returns? I'm guessing that if the weapon misses, a second
skill
> >roll would be needed to catch it (esp. the edged ones). If the weapon
> hits,
> >it probably doesn't return (unless she's Xena -- or it's a cinematic
> >campaign). I know next to nothing about boomerangs, so any help would be
> >greatly appreciated.
> >
> >Thanx in advance,
> >Harvey Wallbanger
> >
> OK, first thing you need to know is that the boomerangs they used to hunt
> with weren't designed to come back. They were much larger and heavier, and
> one side was noticably longer than the other. Of course, this doesn't help
> the cinematic side of Shadowrun, so ignore that. Second thing you need to
> know is that the Crocodile Hunter is bullshit and a poser. Australians
don't
> bother watching his shows. Better to watch Mad Max II or whatever it is
> called in America (assuming that's where you are from), the Feral Kid is
> right up your alley for this kind of character. (By the way, the Feral Kid
> is now a jeweller in Sydney, and is apparently pretty good too. Guess he
> knew he'd never top his first performance).
> I'd say that if you want a returning boomerang, you would need at least
four
> successes, and you would have to factor in the amount of damage it did
too.
> I'd also say that you'd need at least three successes to throw it at all,
or
> a skill of 5 or greater, one or the other, because they are buggers to
> throw, especially with any kind of accuracy. In other words, it would be a
> very difficult weapon to use, which is why other cultures like the
Egyptians
> gave it up millenia ago for spears and arrows. However, you could probably
> offset that by saying it is very hard to dodge because of it's unusual
> curved flight, and you could hit multiple targets if you get enough
> successes.
>

Returning or not depends almost entirely on shape. If it's made right, it
returns to about where you threw it from. Otherwise it's a stick or a club
:o)

I doubt that a boomerang would do much after it's hit someone though. It's
going to bounce off in some weird direction with no real spin to it, so it
is unlikely to return (imo)
As for Mad Max 2, definatly as they had a boomerang with a blade in it.
Didn't they call it road warrior in the US? something like that anyway.


Annachie

Duct tape is like the force. It has a light side, a dark side, and it binds
the universe together

---Red Green
Message no. 29
From: James Mick sinabian@********.net
Subject: Boomerangs
Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2000 10:15:42 -0400
>Returning or not depends almost entirely on shape. If it's made right, it
>returns to about where you threw it from. Otherwise it's a stick or a club
>:o)
>
>I doubt that a boomerang would do much after it's hit someone though. It's
>going to bounce off in some weird direction with no real spin to it, so it
>is unlikely to return (imo)
>As for Mad Max 2, definatly as they had a boomerang with a blade in it.
>Didn't they call it road warrior in the US? something like that anyway.
>
>
>Annachie
>
>Duct tape is like the force. It has a light side, a dark side, and it binds
>the universe together
>
>---Red Green
>
>
In the US they came in this order. Mad Max. The Road Warrior. Mad Max -
Beyond Thunderdome.

And I've heard Mel's considering doing a Mad Max 4...
Message no. 30
From: Simon and Fiona sfuller@******.com.au
Subject: Boomerangs
Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2000 19:29:37 +1000
-----Original Message-----
From: paul collins <paulcollins@*******.com>
To: shadowrn@*********.com <shadowrn@*********.com>
Date: Thursday, July 27, 2000 7:20 PM
Subject: Re: Boomerangs


>Returning or not depends almost entirely on shape. If it's made right, it
>returns to about where you threw it from. Otherwise it's a stick or a club
>:o)

The returning boomerangs were always just toys, or at most small-bird
hunting weapons. The real ones basically _were_ flying clubs.
Message no. 31
From: Simon and Fiona sfuller@******.com.au
Subject: Boomerangs
Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2000 09:57:53 +1000
-----Original Message-----
From: James Mick <sinabian@********.net>
To: shadowrn@*********.com <shadowrn@*********.com>
Date: Friday, July 28, 2000 12:12 AM
Subject: Re: Boomerangs


>In the US they came in this order. Mad Max. The Road Warrior. Mad Max -
>Beyond Thunderdome.
>
>And I've heard Mel's considering doing a Mad Max 4...
>
Come on! Can't they leave the masters to lie in peace instead of digging
them up and buggering them over the tombstone? I can't see how this movie
could possibly be any good. The series reached its peak with Beyond
Thunderdome, I hope sincerely that the plan falls through, or it will be
Blues Brothers 2000 all over again.
Message no. 32
From: Josh Harrison mataxes@****.net
Subject: Boomerangs
Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2000 20:34:45 -0400
----- Original Message -----
From: Simon and Fiona <sfuller@******.com.au>
> >And I've heard Mel's considering doing a Mad Max 4...
> >
> Come on! Can't they leave the masters to lie in peace instead of digging
> them up and buggering them over the tombstone? I can't see how this movie
> could possibly be any good. The series reached its peak with Beyond
> Thunderdome, I hope sincerely that the plan falls through, or it will be
> Blues Brothers 2000 all over again.

I don't think you have too much to worry about. I suspect it will come out
about the same time as Evil Dead 4. *grin*

-- Josh (who returns to his bomb shelter, awaiting the orbital carp shots)
Message no. 33
From: Carmen Anthony J carmen.aj@******.com
Subject: Boomerangs
Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2000 16:06:53 -0400
From: "Simon and Fiona" <sfuller@******.com.au>:

>Better to watch Mad Max II or whatever it is
>called in America (assuming that's where you are from), the Feral Kid is
>right up your alley for this kind of character. (By the way, the Feral Kid
>is now a jeweller in Sydney, and is apparently pretty good too. Guess he
>knew he'd never top his first performance).
>I'd say that if you want a returning boomerang, you would need at least
>four
>successes, and you would have to factor in the amount of damage it did
>too.
>I'd also say that you'd need at least three successes to throw it at all,
or
>a skill of 5 or greater, one or the other, because they are buggers to
>throw, especially with any kind of accuracy. In other words, it would be a
>very difficult weapon to use, which is why other cultures like the
Egyptians
>gave it up millenia ago for spears and arrows. However, you could probably
>offset that by saying it is very hard to dodge because of it's unusual
>curved flight, and you could hit multiple targets if you get enough
>successes.

Thanks for the info. I'd completely forgotten about the Road Warrior (Mad
Max 2 as it's known in the US) -- I'll have to check it out. Any ideas,
though, on what kind of damage a weapon like this would do? Thanks again.

Harvey Wallbanger

"Outside of a dog, a book is Man's best friend. And inside of a dog, it's
too dark to read."
--Groucho Marx

"I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed, or
numbered! My life is my own."
--No. 6; Arrival
Message no. 34
From: paul collins paulcollins@*******.com
Subject: Boomerangs
Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2000 12:33:18 +1000
----- Original Message -----
From: Simon and Fiona <sfuller@******.com.au>
To: <shadowrn@*********.com>
Sent: Friday, July 28, 2000 9:57 AM
Subject: Re: Boomerangs


>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: James Mick <sinabian@********.net>
> To: shadowrn@*********.com <shadowrn@*********.com>
> Date: Friday, July 28, 2000 12:12 AM
> Subject: Re: Boomerangs
>
>
> >In the US they came in this order. Mad Max. The Road Warrior. Mad Max -
> >Beyond Thunderdome.
> >
> >And I've heard Mel's considering doing a Mad Max 4...
> >
> Come on! Can't they leave the masters to lie in peace instead of digging
> them up and buggering them over the tombstone? I can't see how this movie
> could possibly be any good. The series reached its peak with Beyond
> Thunderdome, I hope sincerely that the plan falls through, or it will be
> Blues Brothers 2000 all over again.
>
>

Mad Max 4 is in pre production. Mel is considering reprising the role, and
Heath Ledger aparently has expressed interest Max's feral son or somesuch.
George Miller wont say anything about the story line though, except that he
wants to make it different from it's predeccessors.

Annachie




I will not conduct my own fire drills
---Bart's Blackboard
Message no. 35
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Hahns Shin)
Subject: Boomerangs
Date: Thu Jun 14 11:55:00 2001
Hmm, I think it would fall under Throwing Skill (Boomerang) or (Aerodynamic
Weapons) if your GM is forgiving. The kind of boomerang that is used to
kill is the non-returning kind, more of an aerodynamic weighted stick...
it's like throwing a hatchet, only much easier, because it was designed to
be thrown. The recreational boomerangs that return take the form of all
shapes and sizes, and I'd make it a Throwing Skill test, and an Athletics
(catching) test to receive it, say TG of 8, with successes from the throwing
test used to reduce scatter and lower the catching target number. It ain't
easy (from personal experience with about 10 boomerangs in my youth), but if
you practice, you can get to catching it regularly. The arc is pretty
consistent with each particular boomerang.

The only way I can see a returning boomerang do significant damage (i.e.
more than just a bruise on the noggin) is if you have an Adept that has
Missile Mastery (combined that with Missile Parry, and he/she can
consistently catch boomerangs fairly easily). Maybe if you have a Magic
Fingers or Use Skill spell, you can have the boomerangs consistently return
to you (then again, you can say that with any amount of throwing weapons...
hmm...)

Hahns Shin, MS II
Budding cybersurgeon
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