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Message no. 1
From: Justin Elliott <justin.elliott@********.OTAGO.AC.NZ>
Subject: Bow questions.
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 09:28:44 +1300
Hi all.

I have a just created a NPC PhysAdep whoes weapon of choice is a bow or
xbow. He is against taking life so has adjusted his arrows/bolts to do stun
damage. What I want to know is:

1)Is this possible (by covering/replacing the arrow head with something)?

2) If it is possible would the new arrow head intefere with range,
accuracy, dammage etc (My guess is yes, but as I don't know huge amounts
about bows I'm not sure by how much)

3) Would it be possible to have an arrow which is equvilient of a gel round
(ie designed to knockdown).

4) Could you use a bow or xbow to deliver specilaty arrows/bolts eg carry
and deploy a net, gas canister, fix it up with a micro-camera etc
(Again if this is possible I would guess it would play havoc with target
numbers etc?)

Normaly I would make this kind of thing up on the fly, but as I know little
about the use of bow/xbow any help from you lot is appreciated.

Justin.
Message no. 2
From: Thomas Faßnacht <Arkane@***********.NET>
Subject: Re: Bow questions.
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 21:49:34 +0100
Justin Elliott wrote:

> Hi all.
> (...)
> 3) Would it be possible to have an arrow which is equvilient of a gel round
> (ie designed to knockdown).
>
> 4) Could you use a bow or xbow to deliver specilaty arrows/bolts eg carry
> and deploy a net, gas canister, fix it up with a micro-camera etc
> (Again if this is possible I would guess it would play havoc with target
> numbers etc?)
>
>

Surely it works. The old Green Arrow of DC Comics had BOXING GLOVE-Arrows,
BOOMERANG-Arrows and so on... so why not . :-)
Message no. 3
From: Paul Gettle <RunnerPaul@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: Bow questions.
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 17:42:55 -0500
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

At 09:28 AM 11/20/98 +1300, you wrote:
>Hi all.
>
>I have a just created a NPC PhysAdep whoes weapon of choice is a bow
or
>xbow. He is against taking life so has adjusted his arrows/bolts to
do stun
>damage. What I want to know is:
>
>1)Is this possible (by covering/replacing the arrow head with
something)?

The father of one of my friends is a SCA nut, and he specializes in
Archery, and I know they use arrows that just bruise. I'll check with
him and see if he can answer the rest of the questions.

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Message no. 4
From: Mike Bobroff <Airwasp@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Bow questions.
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 17:43:07 EST
In a message dated 11/19/98 3:26:53 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
justin.elliott@********.OTAGO.AC.NZ writes:

> I have a just created a NPC PhysAdep whoes weapon of choice is a bow or
> xbow. He is against taking life so has adjusted his arrows/bolts to do stun
> damage. What I want to know is:
>
> 1)Is this possible (by covering/replacing the arrow head with something)?

It is possibly to make an arrow capable of doing stun damage, and you would do
that by changing the arrowhead to a blunt tip instead. If you go to a store
near you which sells anything bow associated (or check on the web -probably
faster), go looking for something called a Practice Head.

> 2) If it is possible would the new arrow head intefere with range,
> accuracy, dammage etc (My guess is yes, but as I don't know huge amounts
> about bows I'm not sure by how much)

From the few times I shot a practice arrow, I personally did not notice any
difference in the range or accuracy.

> 3) Would it be possible to have an arrow which is equvilient of a gel round
> (ie designed to knockdown).

Yes, in fact, the tip of the arrow could be a gel-round instead of a piece of
hard/soft plastic as it would greatly cushion the blow and lessen the chances
of physical overflow (which can still happen anyway).

> 4) Could you use a bow or xbow to deliver specilaty arrows/bolts eg carry
> and deploy a net, gas canister, fix it up with a micro-camera etc
> (Again if this is possible I would guess it would play havoc with target
> numbers etc?)

Yes, all of this is entirely possible. I have a pc which is a rigger and all
of the vehicles he rigs the most are his arrows. I use the Micro-Rotodrone as
the base for the chassis, and have not bothered to install a power plant as I
have limited the range of the arrows to the range limit of my rigger's
strength (but there will be a day though, soon).

> Normaly I would make this kind of thing up on the fly, but as I know little
> about the use of bow/xbow any help from you lot is appreciated.

Don't worry, just use your imagination, and try to throw in a little bit of
realism to see whether or not attaching a Panther Assault Cannon to the arrow
will grealty affect the range of the arrow.

-Mike
Message no. 5
From: GRANITE <granite@**.NET>
Subject: Re: Bow questions.
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 15:40:11 -0700
> 1)Is this possible (by covering/replacing the arrow head with something)?

Certainly..they are called blunts..Normally used for bird
hunting..Although against human targets you might want to expand the
sive of the bllunt to about the size of a quarter..and make it out of
hard rubber..This [at least to a point] should avoid penetrating
wounds..

> 2) If it is possible would the new arrow head intefere with range,
> accuracy, dammage etc (My guess is yes, but as I don't know huge amounts
> about bows I'm not sure by how much)

There shouldn't be too much affect..so I would discount it..

> 4) Could you use a bow or xbow to deliver specilaty arrows/bolts eg carry
> and deploy a net, gas canister, fix it up with a micro-camera etc
> (Again if this is possible I would guess it would play havoc with target
> numbers etc?)

THe net thing would be pretty much impossible as far as I can
see..unless you are trapping mouse sized targets ;P
Gas cannister...hmm..it could be done but it wouldn't be very
effective..
The micro camera could work though..there is currently [and has been
for years] a micro camera that fits into the head of an estes mode
rocket..this could be quite useful if properly used..say sub a micro
vid camera with a transmitter inside the arrow..it could be kinda
expensive..but it should work..

--------------------------------GRANITE
"Rock Steady"
===============================================
Lord, Grant Me The Serenity To Accept The Things I Cannot Change,
The Courage To Change The Things I Can,
And The Wisdom To Hide The Bodies Of Those People I Had To Kill
Because They Pissed Me Off.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ShadowRunner's Serenity Prayer
===============================================
Understanding is a three edged sword. - Kosh
What is best in life?
To Crush Your Enemies,
See Them Driven Before You,
And To Hear The Lamentation Of Their Women. -Conan
I Am The LAW! -JD
Jamais Arriere
Message no. 6
From: Steven McCormick <stardust@***.NET>
Subject: Re: Bow questions.
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 17:19:08 -0600
At 03:40 PM 11/19/98 -0700, Granite wrote:
>> 1)Is this possible (by covering/replacing the arrow head with something)?
>
>Certainly..they are called blunts..Normally used for bird
>hunting..Although against human targets you might want to expand the
>sive of the bllunt to about the size of a quarter..and make it out of
>hard rubber..This [at least to a point] should avoid penetrating
>wounds..
>
You can also change the fletching to slow the velocity of the arrow
quickly. Of course this will affect the range.

BlueMule
Message no. 7
From: Fade <runefo@***.UIO.NO>
Subject: Re: Bow questions.
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 00:53:23 +0000
> Hi all.
>
> I have a just created a NPC PhysAdep whoes weapon of choice is a bow or
> xbow. He is against taking life so has adjusted his arrows/bolts to do stun
> damage. What I want to know is:
>
> 1)Is this possible (by covering/replacing the arrow head with something)?
>
> 2) If it is possible would the new arrow head intefere with range,
> accuracy, dammage etc (My guess is yes, but as I don't know huge amounts
> about bows I'm not sure by how much)

Don't see a problem here, really. Just treat it as 'gel arrows' with
-2 power level.

Regards,

--
Fade

And the Prince of Lies said:
"To reign is worth ambition, though in Hell:
Better to reign in hell than to serve in heaven."
-John Milton, Paradise Lost
Message no. 8
From: Nexx <nexx@********.NET>
Subject: Re: Bow questions.
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 18:14:41 -0600
----------
> From: Paul Gettle <RunnerPaul@*****.COM>
> >
> >1)Is this possible (by covering/replacing the arrow head with
> something)?
>
> The father of one of my friends is a SCA nut, and he specializes in
> Archery, and I know they use arrows that just bruise. I'll check with
> him and see if he can answer the rest of the questions.

In Calontir, at least, they're golf ball tubes with a tennis ball on the
end, using 50# bows. I'm pretty sure that's standard.

--
Rev. Mark Hall
aka Pope Nexx Many-Scars
*
We are obligated, therefore, to spread the news, painful and bitter though
it may be for some to hear, that all living things on earth are kindred.
-Edward Abbey, _Desert Solitude_
Message no. 9
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: Bow questions.
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 11:15:33 +0100
According to Justin Elliott, at 9:28 on 20 Nov 98, the word on the street was...

> 1)Is this possible (by covering/replacing the arrow head with something)?

Not having much (any, really) first-hand experience with bows, it seems to
me that this would be possible by using large and/or blunt arrowheads.

> 2) If it is possible would the new arrow head intefere with range,
> accuracy, dammage etc (My guess is yes, but as I don't know huge amounts
> about bows I'm not sure by how much)

I would ignore this, as SR does for just about every range-related issue.
For example, APDS should have better ranges than regular ammo while gel
rounds should have lower ranges, but SR doesn't address this -- it's
easiest to leave it out for bows as well.

> 3) Would it be possible to have an arrow which is equvilient of a gel round
> (ie designed to knockdown).

I don't know.

> 4) Could you use a bow or xbow to deliver specilaty arrows/bolts eg carry
> and deploy a net, gas canister, fix it up with a micro-camera etc

Gas canisters, explosives, etc. would be possible I think. Nets are a
different matter, though -- I have trouble picturing how this would work
when fired from a bow.

> (Again if this is possible I would guess it would play havoc with target
> numbers etc?)

Most likely, yes. OTOH this would probably be along the same lines as the
proposed range reduction for stun arrows, and again you might want to
simply ignore it.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
He likes to sleep. Sometimes he has good dreams.
-> NERPS Project Leader * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
-> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-

GC3.1: GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+
PE Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 10
From: Bruce <gyro@********.CO.ZA>
Subject: Re: Bow questions.
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 13:59:08 +0200
Justin Elliot asked about Bows and Arrows....

> 2) If it is possible would the new arrow head intefere with range,
> accuracy, dammage etc (My guess is yes, but as I don't know huge
amounts
> about bows I'm not sure by how much)


Try a 10% reduction for ranges. Change damage to stun. Use Impact
armour to resist damage.
I would impose a flat +2 target modifier for all special arrows. This
from
the imperfect shape and balance of these arrows.


> 4) Could you use a bow or xbow to deliver specilaty arrows/bolts eg
carry
> and deploy a net, gas canister, fix it up with a micro-camera etc

Mini grenades attached to arrowheads! No problem. Note that these
payloads
would be delivered by "lobbing" the in a high trajectory, not the
direct line shooting
like when you want to achieve a take down on a (meta)human target.
Apply the suggested range and T# modifiers.

BRUCE <gyro@********.co.za>
*Executive Engineer* *FrontLine Games*
Yo soy un disco quebrado
Yo tengo chicle en cerebro
sm:)e
Message no. 11
From: Wildfire <thierryt@*********.CA>
Subject: Re: Bow questions.
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 23:26:08 -0500
> 4) Could you use a bow or xbow to deliver specilaty arrows/bolts eg carry
> and deploy a net, gas canister, fix it up with a micro-camera etc

Gas canisters, explosives, etc. would be possible I think. Nets are a
different matter, though -- I have trouble picturing how this would work
when fired from a bow.

Maybe the arrow could be fitted with a small canister containing the net.
Linked with a range-finder link or something similar, the canister could
open and deploy the net at a certain range from the target. Then again ...
i have absolutly no idea if this would work with my extremely limited
experience with all things bows. Could this actually work ??

Wildfire
Message no. 12
From: westln@***.EDU
Subject: Re: Bow questions.
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 12:04:54 -0500
>According to Justin Elliott, at 9:28 on 20 Nov 98, the word on the street
>was...
>
>> 1)Is this possible (by covering/replacing the arrow head with something)?
>
As you have heard from the group already there are ways to make blunts with
todays technology. However I would use the same tech as in Gel Rounds to
make the heads. That way you don't have to worry about sizes or anything.
After all a gel round is only the size of a bullet and should fit fine on
the end of the arrow. The velocity of a bullet far exceeds a arrow, so even
though an arrow has more weight the kenetic energy should be far less.

>> 2) If it is possible would the new arrow head intefere with range,
>> accuracy, dammage etc (My guess is yes, but as I don't know huge amounts
>> about bows I'm not sure by how much)
>
If you go with the gell round head compared to the improve head size
approach of desgining it should be identical to normal arrows.

>> 3) Would it be possible to have an arrow which is equvilient of a gel round
>> (ie designed to knockdown).

Personally I don't think the arrow has enough energy to generate the knock
down effect. But that's a gaming flavour call.

>> 4) Could you use a bow or xbow to deliver specilaty arrows/bolts eg carry
>> and deploy a net, gas canister, fix it up with a micro-camera etc

A normal net I think would be too big. A monofilament net might work. I
would make it a one time use iteam to cut down on weight. The net could be
packed under pressure in a hollow shaft of the arrow. When the arrow hits,
the shaft could be desgined to shatter and release the mono net. If a net
is too complicated I would just go for strands of mono wire under lots of
tension. They might create a single area effect monowhip attack effect.

A normal gas canister is arround a kilo. That would be a bit ,much I think.
The arrow normally spins attaching a canister directly to it would upset
the spin and make life difficult. However you could design your way arround
it. Go for the hollow shaft again filled with the material that would burn
to preoduce the gass. Placing a percussion cap at the head of the arrow
could then set off the material releasing a cloud. The arrow is ofcourse
consumed again. This also will let you do illuminating arrow or even flares.

If arrows spin in flight( I'm not sure if they do) I'm not sure how you
would control the direction the camera was pointing in. But the total
weight of the micro cam and possibly the remote mount for it should be low
enough that I'd let you get away with it.


As for target numbers. If you just strap a large weight to the side of the
arrow with duck tape then yes I would reduce the effective range of the
arrow and possibly increase the target number a little. If you took the
designed approach and kept the weight down, and balanced properly on the
arrow then I wouldn't bother changing range or target numbers.
Message no. 13
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@******.CARL.ORG>
Subject: Re: Bow questions.
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 10:58:17 -0700
For the mere cost of a Thaum, Wildfire wrote:
/
/ > 4) Could you use a bow or xbow to deliver specilaty arrows/bolts eg carry
/ > and deploy a net, gas canister, fix it up with a micro-camera etc
/
/ Gas canisters, explosives, etc. would be possible I think. Nets are a
/ different matter, though -- I have trouble picturing how this would work
/ when fired from a bow.

Here's a high-tech method. Put a polymer goo in a small pressurized
canister. The polymer solidifies instantly when exposed to air. The
canister on the tip of the arrow is rigged to release the goo when it
hits something. The effect would be similar to getting hit with a
silly string bomb, except that the silly string is very strong. It
probably wouldn't be strong enough to hold a strong person, but it
would slow them down enough for you to escape, or for reinforcements to
arrive.

And on a related note, this thread reminded me of the way they use nets
to capture animals. A net is attached to several cannons/rockets.
When the target animal(s) has entered the area the cannons/rockets are
fired, which pull the net over and on to the target.

I think this would be a great trick to pull on the PCs as they try to
sneak into a corporate compound. As they're sneaking up the grassy
knol seismic sensors detect several large creatures entering the
containment area and trigger the rocket launchers, which fire and drag
a large net over the entire group of PCs. Enjoy <EGMG>.

-David B.
--
"Earn what you have been given."
--
email: dbuehrer@******.carl.org
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
Message no. 14
From: GRANITE <granite@**.NET>
Subject: Re: Bow questions.
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 02:14:38 -0700
> If you go with the gell round head compared to the improve head size
> approach of desgining it should be identical to normal arrows.

Do not forget the shaft of teh arrow..this also has kenitic energy
that coud easily peirce a person..

> >> 3) Would it be possible to have an arrow which is equvilient of a gel round
> >> (ie designed to knockdown).
> Personally I don't think the arrow has enough energy to generate the knock
> down effect. But that's a gaming flavour call.

Have you ever been knocked down by a paintball?
PBs fly at approximately 300fps arrows approx 260-280fps

> If arrows spin in flight( I'm not sure if they do)

they do...

I'm not sure how you
> would control the direction the camera was pointing in. But the total
> weight of the micro cam and possibly the remote mount for it should be low
> enough that I'd let you get away with it.

You woulddnt' be able to control where -exactally- the camera
pointed..you would have to wait for it to orbit around to see the
desired area..

--------------------------------GRANITE
"Rock Steady"
===============================================
Lord, Grant Me The Serenity To Accept The Things I Cannot Change,
The Courage To Change The Things I Can,
And The Wisdom To Hide The Bodies Of Those People I Had To Kill
Because They Pissed Me Off.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ShadowRunner's Serenity Prayer
===============================================
Understanding is a three edged sword. - Kosh
What is best in life?
To Crush Your Enemies,
See Them Driven Before You,
And To Hear The Lamentation Of Their Women. -Conan
I Am The LAW! -JD
Jamais Arriere
Message no. 15
From: Justin Elliott <justin.elliott@********.OTAGO.AC.NZ>
Subject: Re: Bow questions.
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 08:44:23 +1300
>> 4) Could you use a bow or xbow to deliver specilaty arrows/bolts eg carry
>> and deploy a net, gas canister, fix it up with a micro-camera etc
>
>Gas canisters, explosives, etc. would be possible I think. Nets are a
>different matter, though -- I have trouble picturing how this would work
>when fired from a bow.
>

In this case I was thinking more of a Xbow. Some form of canister in/
attached to the quarrell, that is on a timed fuse. After the set time it
detonates releasing the net.

Justin.
Message no. 16
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: Bow questions.
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 12:25:45 +0100
According to Justin Elliott, at 8:44 on 23 Nov 98, the word on the street was...

> In this case I was thinking more of a Xbow. Some form of canister in/
> attached to the quarrell, that is on a timed fuse. After the set time it
> detonates releasing the net.

Could be done, although you'd have to have either a fuse that you can
adjust, or different bolts with fuses set at different delays. Still,
coupled to a range finder this might work pretty well.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
He likes to sleep. Sometimes he has good dreams.
-> NERPS Project Leader * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
-> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-

GC3.1: GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+
PE Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998

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