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Message no. 1
From: Max Rible <slothman@*********.ORG>
Subject: Bug Extermination: How Did They Do That?
Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 10:20:40 -0800
So how do you think they managed to clear out enough of the Bugs from Chicago
that it's safe to reopen the city?

The basic problem in going after enemies that are spirits is that you will
almost certainly need mages in order to deal with them, and mages are a very
scarce resource. However, there are a few useful stunts you could pull, I
think, that would make it easier to deal with spirit opponents.

Start with planes going overhead spraying out aerosols filled with bacteria
(not fat bacteria, just things that can survive in an aerosol) that have
a tendency to clump together into big sheets. With a continuous (and
expensive) bombardment like that, spirits will be pulled down to the ground
by the sheets or forced to manifest physically (at which point they can
be targetted).

Next, get a bunch of tanks, both LAV's and treaded vehicles. Build wards
around them, make a layer in the armor that contains lichen, whatever it
takes,
but make sure that spirits can't get in and out of them. Put in mundane
soldiers and at least one mage, using a fiber-optic observation network
(just like security mages) to see all around. Equip said vehicle with
lots of micro turrets with Firelance lasers (or the next generation up from
them-- they've had years to work at it!). The mages are there for magical
defense and casting a physical illusion spell that causes an astral target
to be visible on the physical plane-- enough that riggers and other gunners
can target it. Lasers, IIRC, qualify as elemental light, and are a lot
more dangerous against spirits than normal ammo. I'm not sure if water
cannon firing bacterial broth would be very useful or not, but it's another
thing worth contemplating.

The LAV's are there to go after the outdoor opponents. The treaded tanks
are meant to go indoors (!) when possible. There will be plenty of places
the treaded tanks couldn't go, though, and I'm trying to figure out how
you could equip drones properly to deal with such things...

--
%% Max Rible %% slothman@*****.com %% http://www.amurgsval.org/~slothman/ %%
%% "So, an Arisian, a Vorlon, and a knnn go into a tavern..." %%
Message no. 2
From: GRANITE <granite@**.NET>
Subject: Re: Bug Extermination: How Did They Do That?
Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 15:02:52 -0700
> From: Max Rible <slothman@*********.ORG>
> but make sure that spirits can't get in and out of them. Put in mundane
> soldiers and at least one mage, using a fiber-optic observation network
> (just like security mages) to see all around.

One minor point I would like to bring up..If the mage can see out
with this system..it by its very nature creates a hole in your living
barrier..A small hole to be sure..but a hole none the less..and some
nasty spirit should be able to figure a way in through any hole..In
time of course..
--------------------------------GRANITE "Rock Steady"
=====================================================
Lord, Grant Me The Serenity To Accept The Things I Cannot Change,
The Courage To Change The Things I Can,
And The Wisdom To Hide The Bodies Of Those People I Had To Kill
Because They Pissed Me Off.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ShadowRunner's Serenity Prayer
Message no. 3
From: "Faux Pas (Thomas)" <thomas@*******.COM>
Subject: Re: Bug Extermination: How Did They Do That?
Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 16:24:26 -0500
At 10:20 AM 5/7/97 -0800, Max Rible whispered:
>So how do you think they managed to clear out enough of the Bugs from Chicago
>that it's safe to reopen the city?

The bugs possessed the people in charge who then declared it's safe,
allowing the other bugs out into the rest of the UCAS, and letting more
hosts in. Have a big spectacular raid that wouldn't work, but most people
think would, like releasing a harmless gas over the area and declaring it
successful would do the trick.


-Thomas Deeny
Visit http://telltale.hart.org - faster, stronger, better than before!

"... what character deserves to be left alone more at the end of the world
than that idiot Ash?"
-Bruce Campbell on the dropped ending for _Army of Darkness_
Message no. 4
From: Max Rible <slothman@*********.ORG>
Subject: Re: Bug Extermination: How Did They Do That?
Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 13:28:32 -0800
At 15:02 5/7/97 -0700, GRANITE wrote:
>> From: Max Rible <slothman@*********.ORG>
>> but make sure that spirits can't get in and out of them. Put in mundane
>> soldiers and at least one mage, using a fiber-optic observation network
>> (just like security mages) to see all around.

>One minor point I would like to bring up..If the mage can see out
>with this system..it by its very nature creates a hole in your living
>barrier..A small hole to be sure..but a hole none the less..and some
>nasty spirit should be able to figure a way in through any hole..In
>time of course..

I believe that the world of spirits is very fluid, but I don't think it's
*that* fluid. I doubt anything bigger than a Watcher could get in through
a hole less than two inches in diameter.

--
%% Max Rible %% slothman@*****.com %% http://www.amurgsval.org/~slothman/ %%
%% "So, an Arisian, a Vorlon, and a knnn go into a tavern..." %%
Message no. 5
From: Bull <chaos@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: Bug Extermination: How Did They Do That?
Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 18:48:19 -0400
At 10:20 AM 5/7/97 -0800, Max Rible wrote these timeless words:
>So how do you think they managed to clear out enough of the Bugs from Chicago
>that it's safe to reopen the city?
>
[SNIP interesting ideas:]]

It's all a set up. it's gotta be. There's no damn way they could have
gotten rid of all the bugs, or even cleaned up Chi-Town to the point of it
being semi-safe.

I'm thinking that either:

A) The bugs have gone into hiding, and are "playing dead". We know from
threats and a few comments in Bug City that the bugs have been getting
progressivly smarter, and that the Cermak Bomb altered them somehow. I
think with a few good merges with smart people (There were a LOT of
Shadowrunners and Businessmen from the big corps that went missing in
Chicago) leading the bugs, they could easily have gone into hiding. How
many really good merges are out among the general population now waiting
for their time to strike?

B) Someone really high up in the Government and/or Ares is a bug, and is
responsible for the pull out of the military.

Hmmm, no clue yet, but this has me VERY worried...

BTW: Since Chicago is in Target: UCAS, I wonder if that's the section I
get to be in? It would make sense...

<shrug>

<grin>

Bull-the-Bug-Fearin'-Ork-Decker

--
Now the Offical Celebrity Shadowrn Mailing List Welcome Ork Decker!
Fearless Leader of the Star Wars Mailing List
NEW HOME PAGE!: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/3604/home.html

Bull, aka Steven Ratkovich, aka Rak, aka a lot of others! :]

"The best Ork Decker you never met"
-Me, in the upcoming "Target: UCAS" Shadowrun Sourcebook!
Message no. 6
From: Max Rible <slothman@*********.ORG>
Subject: Re: Bug Extermination: How Did They Do That?
Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 16:08:59 -0800
At 18:48 5/7/97 -0400, Bull wrote:
>At 10:20 AM 5/7/97 -0800, Max Rible wrote these timeless words:
>>So how do you think they managed to clear out enough of the Bugs from
Chicago
>>that it's safe to reopen the city?

>It's all a set up. it's gotta be. There's no damn way they could have
>gotten rid of all the bugs, or even cleaned up Chi-Town to the point of it
>being semi-safe.

Why not? They've had years to study the problem, and plenty of incentive.
The Bugs are vulnerable to lasers and insecticides. The Bugs are certainly
insidious, but that doesn't mean that a massive effort couldn't purge enough
of them to render Chi-Town habitable. (I expect there may be a few here
and there, but I can't see why it wouldn't be possible to wipe out the
vast majority of them through major effort.) Even in a world of cyberzombies,
blood magic, immortal elves, insect spirits, subliminal BTL broadcasts,
and Great Dragons, I think it's a mistake to underestimate basic human
ingenuity.

>A) The bugs have gone into hiding, and are "playing dead". We know from
>threats and a few comments in Bug City that the bugs have been getting
>progressivly smarter, and that the Cermak Bomb altered them somehow. I
>think with a few good merges with smart people (There were a LOT of
>Shadowrunners and Businessmen from the big corps that went missing in
>Chicago) leading the bugs, they could easily have gone into hiding. How
>many really good merges are out among the general population now waiting
>for their time to strike?

The Bugs aren't gone for good. The same forces that created them originally
are still present. I also expect that those "good merges" with smart people
probably managed to find their way *out* of the CZ long before the government
could come in and crush the hives. Chicago may be relatively safe now--
but where will they pop up next?

>B) Someone really high up in the Government and/or Ares is a bug, and is
>responsible for the pull out of the military.

I suspect that there have been quite a number of very competent security
mages assigned to preventing this kind of occurrence, ever since someone
discovered the first "good merge"...

--
%% Max Rible %% slothman@*****.com %% http://www.amurgsval.org/~slothman/ %%
%% "So, an Arisian, a Vorlon, and a knnn go into a tavern..." %%
Message no. 7
From: Bull <chaos@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: Bug Extermination: How Did They Do That?
Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 21:18:57 -0400
At 04:08 PM 5/7/97 -0800, Max Rible wrote these timeless words:

>>It's all a set up. it's gotta be. There's no damn way they could have
>>gotten rid of all the bugs, or even cleaned up Chi-Town to the point of it
>>being semi-safe.
>
>Why not? They've had years to study the problem, and plenty of incentive.
>The Bugs are vulnerable to lasers and insecticides. The Bugs are certainly
>insidious, but that doesn't mean that a massive effort couldn't purge enough
>of them to render Chi-Town habitable. (I expect there may be a few here
>and there, but I can't see why it wouldn't be possible to wipe out the
>vast majority of them through major effort.) Even in a world of
cyberzombies,
>blood magic, immortal elves, insect spirits, subliminal BTL broadcasts,
>and Great Dragons, I think it's a mistake to underestimate basic human
>ingenuity.
>
First off, I doubt FASA would let go of this good a plot thread, and
Several of the more recent modules and stuff have inted at a much greater
"infestation" than anyone realizes (No details as theya re major spoilers).
Even though the faces behind the stories have changed a bit since Bug City
came out (It'll be 4 years this summer, I think. maybe only 3. ), I can't
see FASA getting rid of Bug City altogether. Too much fun and horror.

On top of that, who's gonna trust anyone from the Zone (Bull and Johnny
aside:))?? The only way that area could ever be reopened would be the
extermination of all living things in the zone. After all, "Nuke 'em from
orbit" IS the only way to be sure...:] But the government is in a very
vulnerable and unknown situation with the bugs. They can't afford a
"mistake".

>>A) The bugs have gone into hiding, and are "playing dead". We know
from
>>threats and a few comments in Bug City that the bugs have been getting
>>progressivly smarter, and that the Cermak Bomb altered them somehow. I
>>think with a few good merges with smart people (There were a LOT of
>>Shadowrunners and Businessmen from the big corps that went missing in
>>Chicago) leading the bugs, they could easily have gone into hiding. How
>>many really good merges are out among the general population now waiting
>>for their time to strike?
>
>The Bugs aren't gone for good. The same forces that created them originally
>are still present. I also expect that those "good merges" with smart people
>probably managed to find their way *out* of the CZ long before the government
>could come in and crush the hives. Chicago may be relatively safe now--
>but where will they pop up next?
>
I doubt even Chicago is safe. After all, there has to be a reason they
appeared en masse in Chicago in the first place. My guess is an astral
portal or something similar in that location. FASA may be setting up Bug
City 2, though that could be silly unless done carefully.

>>B) Someone really high up in the Government and/or Ares is a bug, and is
>>responsible for the pull out of the military.
>
>I suspect that there have been quite a number of very competent security
>mages assigned to preventing this kind of occurrence, ever since someone
>discovered the first "good merge"...
>
Yeah, but the problem is, there's not supposed to be any way to detect the
really good merges. So you've got a good mage? He might be able to defeat
the merge if he notices it, but that's IF...

The bugs are one of the 6th worlds biggest threats, and, if run right, one
of the most fun scenarios to run and play in. I personally will be real
disappointed if they're just done away with...

Bull
--
Now the Offical Celebrity Shadowrn Mailing List Welcome Ork Decker!
Fearless Leader of the Star Wars Mailing List
NEW HOME PAGE!: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/3604/home.html

Bull, aka Steven Ratkovich, aka Rak, aka a lot of others! :]

"The best Ork Decker you never met"
-Me, in the upcoming "Target: UCAS" Shadowrun Sourcebook!
Message no. 8
From: Avenger <Avenger@*******.DEMON.CO.UK>
Subject: Re: Bug Extermination: How Did They Do That?
Date: Thu, 8 May 1997 01:29:57 +0100
In article <3.0.32.19970507102039.0094e470@******.ba.best.com>, Max
Rible <slothman@*********.ORG> rambled on endlessly about Bug
Extermination: How Did They Do That?
>So how do you think they managed to clear out enough of the Bugs from Chicago
>that it's safe to reopen the city?

They asked the bugs very nicely, if they could go home so that the human
race could have it's city back.

The bugs, being nice kind considered critters, all agreed and left for
another dimension, promising not to return, or leave any friends behind
who might cause trouble.

</sarcasm>


--
__ \ | \ __
| | _` | __| | / _ \ \ / _ \ __ \ _` | _ \ __|
| | ( | | < ___ \ \ / __/ | | ( | __/ |
____/ \__,_|_| _|\_\ _/ _\ \_/ \___|_| _|\__, |\___|_|
A Dark Shadow in a Dark World |___/
Web page at: http://www.shalako.demon.co.uk
Message no. 9
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@****.ORG>
Subject: Re: Bug Extermination: How Did They Do That?
Date: Thu, 8 May 1997 07:37:08 -0600
Avenger wrote:
|
| In article <3.0.32.19970507102039.0094e470@******.ba.best.com>, Max
| Rible <slothman@*********.ORG> rambled on endlessly about Bug
| Extermination: How Did They Do That?
| >So how do you think they managed to clear out enough of the Bugs from Chicago
| >that it's safe to reopen the city?
|
| They asked the bugs very nicely, if they could go home so that the human
| race could have it's city back.
|
| The bugs, being nice kind considered critters, all agreed and left for
| another dimension, promising not to return, or leave any friends behind
| who might cause trouble.
|
| </sarcasm>

I did see the "sarcasm". However, I can easily see the UCAS Military
making a deal with the bugs. The UCAS will provide the bugs with a
nice secluded place to live. If the bugs play nice with the UCAS,
the UCAS will provide the bugs transport to a target at least once
every five years. Now the UCAS have themselves a new weapon and the
bugs get what they want.

-David
--
/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\ dbuehrer@****.org /^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\
"His thoughts tumbled in his head, making and breaking
alliances like underpants in a dryer without Cling Free."
~~~http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm~~~~
Message no. 10
From: "Faux Pas (Thomas)" <thomas@*******.COM>
Subject: Re: Bug Extermination: How Did They Do That?
Date: Thu, 8 May 1997 09:42:05 -0500
At 09:18 PM 5/7/97 -0400, Bull whispered:
>I doubt even Chicago is safe. After all, there has to be a reason they
>appeared en masse in Chicago in the first place. My guess is an astral
>portal or something similar in that location. FASA may be setting up Bug
>City 2, though that could be silly unless done carefully.

The Chicago hive was supposed to be the largest North American hive. Which
I read as meaning there are other large hives throughout North America and
possibly hives as large as the Chicago one on other continents, say in
Melbourne or the Essen-Bonn sprawl.

Bug City 2? How about Bug World? "You must be at least this tall for a
good merge."


-Thomas Deeny
Visit http://telltale.hart.org - faster, stronger, better than before!

"... what character deserves to be left alone more at the end of the world
than that idiot Ash?"
-Bruce Campbell on the dropped ending for _Army of Darkness_
Message no. 11
From: Sascha Pabst <Sascha.Pabst@**********.UNI-OLDENBURG.DE>
Subject: Re: Bug Extermination: How Did They Do That?
Date: Thu, 8 May 1997 16:53:07 +0000
On 7 May 97 at 16:08, Max Rible wrote:
[snip]
> The Bugs are vulnerable to lasers and insecticides.
This is the second time you state this. What gives you the idea? I
can't remember where lasers and bugs are mentioned.

Sascha
--
+---___---------+----------------------------------------+--------------------+
| / / _______ | Jhary-a-Conel aka Sascha Pabst | *BLAM!* *BLAM!* |
| / /_/ ____/ |Sascha.Pabst@**********.Uni-Oldenburg.de| Stop! |
| \___ __/ | | *BLAM!* *BLAM!* |
|==== \_/ ======| *Wearing hats is just a way of life* | Police! |
|LOGOUT FASCISM!| - Me | -- ??? |
+------------- http://www.informatik.uni-oldenburg.de/~jhary -----------------+
Message no. 12
From: "Steven A. Tinner" <bluewizard@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: Bug Extermination: How Did They Do That?
Date: Thu, 8 May 1997 00:28:02 -0400
> So how do you think they managed to clear out enough of the Bugs from
Chicago
> that it's safe to reopen the city?

<SNIP some darn good ideas>

This is possible IMO, but I doubt if that's the tack FASA will take.
After all, a full scale military invasion would be enough like a war that
MC23 might be happy!
And we know that can't happen! ;-)

I think the more likely possibility is ...

!!!!!!SPOILERS!!!!!!
Bull stay outta here!!!!!!




















IIRC from Super Tuesday, and elsewhere.
Anne Penchyk is working with the Mantids right?
Anne also got a fairly nice position in the UCAS govt./lobbying bodies
after the reading of D's will.
I suspect that the mantids may have had a large hand in making Chi-town
habitable.

I still don't think that the bugs are gone, or even that the CZ is remotely
safe, but I imagine the gates will be brought down.

Steven A. Tinner
bluewizard@*****.com
http://www.ncweb.com/users/bluewizard
"We could find a speck of dust and scribble down our life stories ..."
Message no. 13
From: Czar Eggbert <czregbrt@*********.EDU>
Subject: Re: Bug Extermination: How Did They Do That?
Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 23:58:56 -0500
On Wed, 7 May 1997, Bull wrote:

> At 10:20 AM 5/7/97 -0800, Max Rible wrote these timeless words:
> >So how do you think they managed to clear out enough of the Bugs from Chicago
> >that it's safe to reopen the city?
> >
OK! Wait one gawd darn second! When was Chi-town declared safe?????
eh?

Czar Eggbert :P

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Czar-"What-ABOUT-boB?"- Eggbert
Ruler, Dark Side of the Moon.
homepage: http:\\www.creighton.edu\~czregbrt
mailto:czregbrt@*********.edu
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Reality!? Is that some new game?"
-MDF
"It's not the heat, it's the humidity.It's not the voltage, it's the current.
It's not the meat, it's the motion. And it's not the pipe - it's the will."
- Jeff Vogel
Scorched Earth Party
http://cspo.queensu.ca/~fletcher/Scorch/
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Message no. 14
From: Craig Wilhelm <craigjwjr@*********.NET>
Subject: Re: Bug Extermination: How Did They Do That?
Date: Thu, 8 May 1997 00:09:47 -0400
Bull wrote:

> I doubt even Chicago is safe. After all, there has to be a reason they
> appeared en masse in Chicago in the first place.

Remember the Cermak Blast/Nuke? Check out FASA's mailing address:

FASA Corperation
110 W. _Cermak_ B 305
Chicago, IL 60608

Am I the only one that noticed this?

Craig
--

Reality is nothing but a refuge for those who can't handle role-playing.

-------------BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-------------
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5+++ X-- R++ tv b++ DI-- D+ G e++ h* r+ y++**
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Message no. 15
From: TEGTMEBC@******.ACS.MUOHIO.EDU
Subject: Re: Bug Extermination: How Did They Do That?
Date: Thu, 8 May 1997 02:46:52 -0500
Max Rible suggested:
> The Bugs aren't gone for good. The same forces that created them originally
> are still present. I also expect that those "good merges" with smart
people
> probably managed to find their way *out* of the CZ long before the government
> could come in and crush the hives. Chicago may be relatively safe now--
> but where will they pop up next?

Don't say that! Not that I don't think it's possible, it's just I don't
like that idea all that much. Personally, I'd rather have Chicago be the big
problem area with the bugs, this is both as a player and as a fan of the idea.
As the fan, I like the idea that the big "evil/whatnot that brought about the
bugs in the first place" is stuck up there in Chicago. This means that there
will be a constant fight for the containment zone, as the two sides battle for
the space. It will be more like a war, with both sides replacing casualties and
sending in the troops until either there aren't any more people to fight the
bugs or else the people find out what keeps bringing in all the damn bugs, and
they finally get rid of it, for a while at least. :) As a player, I just don't
like people suggesting that kind of stuff. My group had enough trouble trying
to get out of the place, we don't like the idea that it could happen again in
our new found home town. Hell, when our GM told us that there was an outbreak
of VITAS in New Orleans, our new hometown, half of us were packing our bags as
the other half started calling the CDC (Center for Disease Control) and
hospitals hoping to find a body count. We figured that if they were finding
corpses due to VITAS, then it at least wasn't the bugs, AGAIN! And yes, we do
know it's considered rather sick to hope for body counts. :)

-The Immortal Mental
Message no. 16
From: Max Rible <slothman@*********.ORG>
Subject: Re: Bug Extermination: How Did They Do That?
Date: Thu, 8 May 1997 10:39:57 -0800
At 04:53 PM 5/8/97 +0000, Sascha Pabst wrote:
>On 7 May 97 at 16:08, Max Rible wrote:
>> The Bugs are vulnerable to lasers and insecticides.

>This is the second time you state this. What gives you the idea? I
>can't remember where lasers and bugs are mentioned.

Lasers, IIRC, qualify as elemental light and aren't subject to the usual
immunity to normal weapons power-- I think that's in Awakenings, but I'd
need to look it up...

--
%% Max Rible %% slothman@*****.com %% http://www.amurgsval.org/~slothman/ %%
%% "So, an Arisian, a Vorlon, and a knnn go into a tavern..." %%
Message no. 17
From: Max Rible <slothman@*********.ORG>
Subject: Re: Bug Extermination: How Did They Do That?
Date: Thu, 8 May 1997 10:03:05 -0800
At 09:18 PM 5/7/97 -0400, Bull wrote:
>>>It's all a set up. it's gotta be. There's no damn way they could have
>>>gotten rid of all the bugs, or even cleaned up Chi-Town to the point of it
>>>being semi-safe.

>>Why not?
...
>> Even in a world of
cyberzombies,
>>blood magic, immortal elves, insect spirits, subliminal BTL broadcasts,
>>and Great Dragons, I think it's a mistake to underestimate basic human
>>ingenuity.

>First off, I doubt FASA would let go of this good a plot thread,

The plot thread works just as well if the really smart Bugs decided to
pack up and move to the Big Cockroach Nest in Brooklyn, though...

> and
>Several of the more recent modules and stuff have inted at a much greater
>"infestation" than anyone realizes (No details as theya re major spoilers).

Care to post some with spoiler protection?

>On top of that, who's gonna trust anyone from the Zone (Bull and Johnny
>aside:))?? The only way that area could ever be reopened would be the
>extermination of all living things in the zone. After all, "Nuke 'em from
>orbit" IS the only way to be sure...:] But the government is in a very
>vulnerable and unknown situation with the bugs. They can't afford a
>"mistake".

>I doubt even Chicago is safe. After all, there has to be a reason they
>appeared en masse in Chicago in the first place. My guess is an astral
>portal or something similar in that location. FASA may be setting up Bug
>City 2, though that could be silly unless done carefully.

I expect that the Bugs won't make the mistake of clustering their hives and
nests in one place again. Unlike normal insects, these are probably capable
of learning from their mistakes.

>Yeah, but the problem is, there's not supposed to be any way to detect the
>really good merges. So you've got a good mage? He might be able to defeat
>the merge if he notices it, but that's IF...

No way to detect it? It doesn't show in the aura at all? I better reread the
section on flesh forms...

>The bugs are one of the 6th worlds biggest threats, and, if run right, one
>of the most fun scenarios to run and play in. I personally will be real
>disappointed if they're just done away with...

I wouldn't want to see them done away with. I just think that it's good
for humankind to show *some* ability to deal with those sorts of threats.
(A military division capable of cleaning out Bug City does not equate
to ending the threat!) No more Bug Cities, but how many secret hives in
the basements of arcologies? What a genuine cleaning-out of Bug City would
do is force the Bugs to get *subtle*, which is much more interesting to me
than "Chicago remains dangerously contaminated"...

Besides, the notion of human beings without help from Fourth Worlders and
Critters From Outside The Material World being able to take on heavy
magical drek dovetails neatly with my plan for having the Horrors emerge,
thousands of years too early, with great fanfare, and getting their
collective
ass handed to them on a platter, leaving vast quantities of egg on the
faces of the Tirs (who were putting *their* economies into being able to
hide behind big wards until the Horrors went away). :-)

--
%% Max Rible %% slothman@*****.com %% http://www.amurgsval.org/~slothman/ %%
%% "So, an Arisian, a Vorlon, and a knnn go into a tavern..." %%
Message no. 18
From: "Faux Pas (Thomas)" <thomas@*******.COM>
Subject: Re: Bug Extermination: How Did They Do That?
Date: Thu, 8 May 1997 14:00:40 -0500
At 11:58 PM 5/7/97 -0500, Czar Eggbert whispered:
>On Wed, 7 May 1997, Bull wrote:
>
>> At 10:20 AM 5/7/97 -0800, Max Rible wrote these timeless words:
>> >So how do you think they managed to clear out enough of the Bugs from
Chicago
>> >that it's safe to reopen the city?
>> >
>OK! Wait one gawd darn second! When was Chi-town declared safe?????
>eh?
>
> Czar Eggbert :P

Prez Haeffner's State of the Union address.

http://www.fasa.com/Shadowrun/Shadowland/StateoftheUnion.html

And the Cermark blast is a location that can be seen from Tom Dowd's office
window when he wrote Burning Bright and supervised Bug City. It's not FASA
Corporation's address.

Perhaps this should be included in the FAQ?


-Thomas Deeny
Visit http://telltale.hart.org - faster, stronger, better than before!

"... what character deserves to be left alone more at the end of the world
than that idiot Ash?"
-Bruce Campbell on the dropped ending for _Army of Darkness_
Message no. 19
From: Adam J <fro@***.AB.CA>
Subject: Re: Bug Extermination: How Did They Do That?
Date: Thu, 8 May 1997 13:05:48 -0600
At 00:09 5/8/97 -0400, Craig Wilhelm wrote:
>Remember the Cermak Blast/Nuke? Check out FASA's mailing address:
>
>FASA Corperation
>110 W. _Cermak_ B 305
>Chicago, IL 60608
>
>Am I the only one that noticed this?

Umm...nope. Tom Dowd chose that place, IIRC, because it was close to the
FASA building. He can see that address from out his office window. (Or at
least could, I don't know if he's moved offices since then :)

-Adam

--
http://shadowrun.home.ml.org -- fro@***.ab.ca
"Do you know how many times I have said something that ends up in
someone's .sig?" -Dvixen, a phone call that turned out to be bloody cheap.
-
"Leading by example" in Target:UCAS
Message no. 20
From: GRANITE <granite@**.NET>
Subject: Re: Bug Extermination: How Did They Do That?
Date: Thu, 8 May 1997 13:36:37 -0700
>I believe that the world of spirits is very fluid, but I don't think it's
>*that* fluid.

Why not..Who sez spirits and elementals are bound by their shape?? and
even is they are what about a water spirit/elemental ???? Couldn't that
sort of spirit pass through a small hole..I would say that -any- break in
the living aura could be exploited..Afterall..isn't the mage doing
this??How do those force 10 fireballs get out of such a small hole???

--------------------------------GRANITE "Rock Steady"
=====================================================
Lord, Grant Me The Serenity To Accept The Things I Cannot Change,
The Courage To Change The Things I Can,
And The Wisdom To Hide The Bodies Of Those People I Had To Kill
Because They Pissed Me Off.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ShadowRunner's Serenity Prayer
Message no. 21
From: Max Rible <slothman@*********.ORG>
Subject: Re: Bug Extermination: How Did They Do That?
Date: Thu, 8 May 1997 12:59:20 -0800
At 13:36 5/8/97 -0700, GRANITE wrote:
>>I believe that the world of spirits is very fluid, but I don't think it's
>>*that* fluid.

>Why not..Who sez spirits and elementals are bound by their shape??

Who says they aren't? I believe that a water elemental shouldn't
have any trouble diffusing through a sewer grating, and can believe
it going up a sewer pipe, but I'm a little leery of letting them
show up through the faucet or shower head and a lot leery of having
them go through something that doesn't even carry water.

(I *do* think that water spirits can go underwater even if it *is* an
astral barrier due to the amount of plankton present, and that earth
elementals can travel through living earth.)

> and
>even is they are what about a water spirit/elemental ???? Couldn't that
>sort of spirit pass through a small hole..

> I would say that -any- break in
>the living aura could be exploited..

Exploited, yes. Exploited in such a trivial fashion-- I don't think so.
I'm certainly not going to let the PC's send elementals down the fiber
optic lines of a building so they can manifest and wreak havoc in the
security center.

> Afterall..isn't the mage doing
>this??How do those force 10 fireballs get out of such a small hole???

Spells are a lot smaller than spirits, IMO.

--
%% Max Rible %% slothman@*****.com %% http://www.amurgsval.org/~slothman/ %%
%% "So, an Arisian, a Vorlon, and a knnn go into a tavern..." %%
Message no. 22
From: Denzil Kruse <dkruse@***.AZ05.BULL.COM>
Subject: Re: Bug Extermination: How Did They Do That?
Date: Thu, 8 May 1997 14:25:00 MST
>> Afterall..isn't the mage doing
>>this??How do those force 10 fireballs get out of such a small hole???
>
>Spells are a lot smaller than spirits, IMO.

The spell won't travel down the fiber optic cable. The cable only provides
LOS, not a path for the spell. The spell will go straight to the target
from the caster, whether he is looking through a periscope, fibeoptic cable,
or a mirror. Thus, from inside the tank, a manipulation spell would hit the
inside of the tank and fry the people within. A combat spell would hit. At
least I think this is how it works, no books here. But I do recall the
section on casting through mirrors in SRII under magic.

Denzil Kruse
d.kruse@****.com
Message no. 23
From: mike.paff@*****.COM
Subject: Re: Bug Extermination: How Did They Do That?
Date: Thu, 8 May 1997 14:44:37 -0700
> >> Afterall..isn't the mage doing
> >>this??How do those force 10 fireballs get out of such a small hole???
> >
> >Spells are a lot smaller than spirits, IMO.
>
> The spell won't travel down the fiber optic cable. The cable only provides
> LOS, not a path for the spell. The spell will go straight to the target
> from the caster, whether he is looking through a periscope, fibeoptic cable,
> or a mirror. Thus, from inside the tank, a manipulation spell would hit the
> inside of the tank and fry the people within. A combat spell would hit.
>
Actually, IIRC this discussion started with the assumption that the tanks
are surrounded by/built of some material which will block the spirits (FAB,
wards, ivy, etc). If this material is able to block spirits, then it is
likely to be able to block spells as well.

One way around this limitation _might_ be to use a variation of attuned
wards which allow spells through which are cast by a specified person
(or persons?). This would be somewhat limiting though, since a
relatively limited number of mages would be able to use a given tank -
if the tank is damaged, those mages may not have a vehicle to use, and if
all of the mages attuned to a given tank are unavailable (due to wounds,
sickness, fatigue, etc) then the tank will not have magical support.

Mike
Message no. 24
From: Max Rible <slothman@*********.ORG>
Subject: Re: Bug Extermination: How Did They Do That?
Date: Thu, 8 May 1997 13:35:19 -0800
At 14:25 5/8/97 MST, Denzil Kruse wrote:
>>> Afterall..isn't the mage doing
>>>this??How do those force 10 fireballs get out of such a small hole???
>>
>>Spells are a lot smaller than spirits, IMO.

>The spell won't travel down the fiber optic cable. The cable only provides
>LOS, not a path for the spell. The spell will go straight to the target
>from the caster, whether he is looking through a periscope, fibeoptic cable,
>or a mirror. Thus, from inside the tank, a manipulation spell would hit the
>inside of the tank and fry the people within. A combat spell would hit. At
>least I think this is how it works, no books here. But I do recall the
>section on casting through mirrors in SRII under magic.

Given that a security mage can spellcast under similar conditions, I expect
that the spell (being an astral entity) would follow the fiber optic cable
simply because it wouldn't be able to go through the living wall directly.

--
%% Max Rible %% slothman@*****.com %% http://www.amurgsval.org/~slothman/ %%
%% "So, an Arisian, a Vorlon, and a knnn go into a tavern..." %%
Message no. 25
From: James Meiers <polbdm@***.UNM.EDU>
Subject: Re: Bug Extermination: How Did They Do That?
Date: Thu, 8 May 1997 16:26:52 -0600
On Thu, 8 May 1997, Craig Wilhelm wrote:

> Remember the Cermak Blast/Nuke? Check out FASA's mailing address:
>
> Am I the only one that noticed this?

No. It's been mentioned before, and Tom Dowd even said he could
see the peak load facility across the street.



*** James Meiers (Specter) ***
http://www.arc.unm.edu/~james --> Homepage
http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Lobby/2942/sr_mil.html
--> Shadowrun Military Site
Message no. 26
From: William Monroe Ashe <wma6617@******.TAMU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Bug Extermination: How Did They Do That?
Date: Thu, 8 May 1997 18:37:05 -0500
Here's my theory about how Ares got rid of the bugs. Perhaps they figured
out a way to control Strain III. That astral nasty would make short work
of the bugs. They'd either be eaten by it, or be forced to move on.

Which would pose an interesting dilemma for Chicago, which was worse
bugs, or Strain III.


Just my random ravings.

Bill
Message no. 27
From: L Canthros <lobo1@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Bug Extermination: How Did They Do That?
Date: Thu, 8 May 1997 22:04:19 EDT
On Thu, 8 May 1997 00:09:47 -0400 Craig Wilhelm <craigjwjr@*********.net>
writes:

>> I doubt even Chicago is safe. After all, there has to be a reason
they
>> appeared en masse in Chicago in the first place.
>
>Remember the Cermak Blast/Nuke? Check out FASA's mailing address:
>
>FASA Corperation
>110 W. _Cermak_ B 305
>Chicago, IL 60608
>
>Am I the only one that noticed this?

No, and it's been mentioned on the list or r.g.f.c (or both). The story
is that Mr. Dowd picked the Cermak plant because it was something he
could see from his offic window, IIRC.

--
-Canthros
And ye shall know the truth, and lobo1@****.com
the truth shall set you free. canthros1@***.com
--John 8:32, KJV
http://members.aol.com/canthros1/
Message no. 28
From: L Canthros <lobo1@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Bug Extermination: How Did They Do That?
Date: Thu, 8 May 1997 22:04:19 EDT
On Thu, 8 May 1997 16:53:07 +0000 Sascha Pabst
<Sascha.Pabst@**********.UNI-OLDENBURG.DE> writes:
>On 7 May 97 at 16:08, Max Rible wrote:
>[snip]
>> The Bugs are vulnerable to lasers and insecticides.
>This is the second time you state this. What gives you the idea? I
>can't remember where lasers and bugs are mentioned.

I believe the assumption comes from the fact that lasers can be
considered to use an elemental effect, light, therefore bypassing the
Immunity to Normal Weapons ability. Not having the SR2 book, I can't
confirm or deny that _any_ elemental effect bypasses the Immunity, but
I've always assumed it was only bypassed by a vulnerability or (maybe)
allergy.

--
-Canthros
And ye shall know the truth, and lobo1@****.com
the truth shall set you free. canthros1@***.com
--John 8:32, KJV
http://members.aol.com/canthros1/
Message no. 29
From: James Meiers <polbdm@***.UNM.EDU>
Subject: Re: Bug Extermination: How Did They Do That?
Date: Thu, 8 May 1997 21:55:26 -0600
On Thu, 8 May 1997, William Monroe Ashe wrote:

> Here's my theory about how Ares got rid of the bugs. Perhaps they figured
> out a way to control Strain III. That astral nasty would make short work
> of the bugs. They'd either be eaten by it, or be forced to move on.
>
> Which would pose an interesting dilemma for Chicago, which was worse
> bugs, or Strain III.

That's a very interesting idea. It's not magically active itself,
and it ravenously feeds on magic things. Just cover the city in it, and
you've gotten rid of every actively magically thing in the Containment
Zone, including the Bugs. Ooh, that's giving me some interesting ideas.




*** James Meiers (Specter) ***
http://www.arc.unm.edu/~james --> Homepage
http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Lobby/2942/sr_mil.html
--> Shadowrun Military Site
Message no. 30
From: Bull <chaos@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: Bug Extermination: How Did They Do That?
Date: Thu, 8 May 1997 23:57:12 -0400
At 09:42 AM 5/8/97 -0500, Faux Pas (Thomas) wrote these timeless words:
>At 09:18 PM 5/7/97 -0400, Bull whispered:
>>I doubt even Chicago is safe. After all, there has to be a reason they
>>appeared en masse in Chicago in the first place. My guess is an astral
>>portal or something similar in that location. FASA may be setting up Bug
>>City 2, though that could be silly unless done carefully.
>
>The Chicago hive was supposed to be the largest North American hive. Which
>I read as meaning there are other large hives throughout North America and
>possibly hives as large as the Chicago one on other continents, say in
>Melbourne or the Essen-Bonn sprawl.
>
I agree that there are other hives. this has been hinted at in various
products. Personally, though, I always assumed that Chicago was the
largest and most "public" hive. That may not hold true in the future
though, but you'ld think that if countries other than the States were
having this large of a problem, FASA would have bothered toat least mention
it in the ShadowTalk section of the books...

>Bug City 2? How about Bug World? "You must be at least this tall for a
>good merge."
>
ROTFL...

I needed this...

Thanks...;]

Bull
--
Now the Offical Celebrity Shadowrn Mailing List Welcome Ork Decker!
Fearless Leader of the Star Wars Mailing List
NEW HOME PAGE!: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/3604/home.html

Bull, aka Steven Ratkovich, aka Rak, aka a lot of others! :]

"The best Ork Decker you never met"
-Me, in the upcoming "Target: UCAS" Shadowrun Sourcebook!
Message no. 31
From: Bull <chaos@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: Bug Extermination: How Did They Do That?
Date: Thu, 8 May 1997 23:57:17 -0400
At 11:58 PM 5/7/97 -0500, Czar Eggbert wrote these timeless words:
>On Wed, 7 May 1997, Bull wrote:
>
>> At 10:20 AM 5/7/97 -0800, Max Rible wrote these timeless words:
>> >So how do you think they managed to clear out enough of the Bugs from
Chicago
>> >that it's safe to reopen the city?
>> >
>OK! Wait one gawd darn second! When was Chi-town declared safe?????
>eh?
>
YOu missed the beginning of the thread, obviously...

It will be in Target: UCAS, and there is an xcerpt stating this on FASA's
web page...

Bull
--
Now the Offical Celebrity Shadowrn Mailing List Welcome Ork Decker!
Fearless Leader of the Star Wars Mailing List
NEW HOME PAGE!: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/3604/home.html

Bull, aka Steven Ratkovich, aka Rak, aka a lot of others! :]

"The best Ork Decker you never met"
-Me, in the upcoming "Target: UCAS" Shadowrun Sourcebook!
Message no. 32
From: Bull <chaos@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: Bug Extermination: How Did They Do That?
Date: Fri, 9 May 1997 05:15:16 -0400
At 10:04 PM 5/8/97 EDT, L Canthros wrote these timeless words:

>I believe the assumption comes from the fact that lasers can be
>considered to use an elemental effect, light, therefore bypassing the
>Immunity to Normal Weapons ability. Not having the SR2 book, I can't
>confirm or deny that _any_ elemental effect bypasses the Immunity, but
>I've always assumed it was only bypassed by a vulnerability or (maybe)
>allergy.
>
I would be interested in seeing a passage in teh book to back up this laser
thing.

If it's true, I'm going to VERY upset, as we had access to a laser the
entire time we were in Bug City and never bothered to haul it around
because we figured it wouldn't work very well...

<sigh>

Bull
--
Now the Offical Celebrity Shadowrn Mailing List Welcome Ork Decker!
Fearless Leader of the Star Wars Mailing List
NEW HOME PAGE!: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/3604/home.html

Bull, aka Steven Ratkovich, aka Rak, aka a lot of others! :]

"The best Ork Decker you never met"
-Me, in the upcoming "Target: UCAS" Shadowrun Sourcebook!
Message no. 33
From: Mark Steedman <M.J.Steedman@***.RGU.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Bug Extermination: How Did They Do That?
Date: Fri, 9 May 1997 11:27:42 GMT
James Meiers writes

> On Thu, 8 May 1997, William Monroe Ashe wrote:
>
> > Here's my theory about how Ares got rid of the bugs. Perhaps they figured
> > out a way to control Strain III. That astral nasty would make short work
> > of the bugs. They'd either be eaten by it, or be forced to move on.
> >
> > Which would pose an interesting dilemma for Chicago, which was worse
> > bugs, or Strain III.
>
> That's a very interesting idea. It's not magically active itself,
> and it ravenously feeds on magic things. Just cover the city in it, and
> you've gotten rid of every actively magically thing in the Containment
> Zone, including the Bugs. Ooh, that's giving me some interesting ideas.
>
I would feel inclined to check strain 3 carefully before being 100%
certain but this is a very nice idea, even be very popular with the
Mafia who lost so much of thier organisation in chicago and have lots
of hooks in the UCAS government, 'we are the least magical crime
syndicate and this means a city where you barely dare be a
magician...rubs hands with extortinate glee!!!!'

Mark
Message no. 34
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: Bug Extermination: How Did They Do That?
Date: Fri, 9 May 1997 12:47:07 +0100
Sascha Pabst said on 16:53/ 8 May 97...

> On 7 May 97 at 16:08, Max Rible wrote:
> [snip]
> > The Bugs are vulnerable to lasers and insecticides.
> This is the second time you state this. What gives you the idea? I
> can't remember where lasers and bugs are mentioned.

I think it's a combination of a couple of rules: SRII page 218, under
Immunity To Normal Weapons: "Against elemental damage (...) the effect is
halved." Spirits get ITNW at twice their Force rating against ranged
attacks only, which would be halved against elemental damage like water
cannons, flamethrowers, and so on.

Now Awakenings page 132 introduces the elemental effect of light; it could
be reasoned (as it looks like Max does) that since light is now an
elemental effect, spirits would get only half their armor rating against
damage resulting from exposure to light (i.e. lasers).

[snip parts of Sascha's .sig]
> *BLAM!* *BLAM!*
> Stop!
> *BLAM!* *BLAM!*
> Police!
> -- ???

It's:

Blam. Blam.
"Stop." Blam.
"Police." Blam.
-- Officer Axly

(page 7, Phoenix Command Small Arms Combat System)

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
You've got to go there and find it, my friend.
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version 3.1:
GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+ PE
Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
Message no. 35
From: Ray & Tamara <macey@*******.COM.AU>
Subject: Re: Bug Extermination: How Did They Do That?
Date: Fri, 9 May 1997 22:29:31 +1000
> > The Bugs are vulnerable to lasers and insecticides.
> This is the second time you state this. What gives you the idea? I
> can't remember where lasers and bugs are mentioned.

It's the immunity to normal weapons thing. Light is an element, and hance
somewhat bypasses the immunity power of manifested spirits.

Ray.

-----------------------------------------------------
| The universe is a big place, and whatever happens,|
| You will not be missed |
-----------------------------------------------------

EMAIL: macey@*******.com.au
Message no. 36
From: Ray & Tamara <macey@*******.COM.AU>
Subject: Re: Bug Extermination: How Did They Do That?
Date: Fri, 9 May 1997 22:34:43 +1000
> >Yeah, but the problem is, there's not supposed to be any way to detect
the
> >really good merges. So you've got a good mage? He might be able to
defeat
> >the merge if he notices it, but that's IF...
>
> No way to detect it? It doesn't show in the aura at all? I better
reread the
> section on flesh forms...

They get aura masking at an equivalent grade to their force, so you had
better be a high level initiate, and even then, you don't penetrate the
aura, you just know that it is masked, so you have to do an astral quest to
see the true aura. That's for everything that you think may be a bug.

Ray.

-----------------------------------------------------
| The universe is a big place, and whatever happens,|
| You will not be missed |
-----------------------------------------------------

EMAIL: macey@*******.com.au
Message no. 37
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@****.ORG>
Subject: Re: Bug Extermination: How Did They Do That?
Date: Fri, 9 May 1997 07:18:45 -0600
James Meiers wrote:
|
| On Thu, 8 May 1997, William Monroe Ashe wrote:
|
| > Here's my theory about how Ares got rid of the bugs. Perhaps they figured
| > out a way to control Strain III. That astral nasty would make short work
| > of the bugs. They'd either be eaten by it, or be forced to move on.

Where are the rules for Strain III?

-David
--
/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\ dbuehrer@****.org /^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\
"His thoughts tumbled in his head, making and breaking
alliances like underpants in a dryer without Cling Free."
~~~http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm~~~~
Message no. 38
From: Ray & Tamara <macey@*******.COM.AU>
Subject: Re: Bug Extermination: How Did They Do That?
Date: Fri, 9 May 1997 22:38:57 +1000
> The spell won't travel down the fiber optic cable. The cable only
provides
> LOS, not a path for the spell. The spell will go straight to the target
> from the caster, whether he is looking through a periscope, fibeoptic
cable,
> or a mirror. Thus, from inside the tank, a manipulation spell would hit
the
> inside of the tank and fry the people within. A combat spell would hit.
At

Actually, in the circumstance describing the tank, it was stated that the
tank was covered with moss or whatever, to give it a living aura, and stop
spirits going through (hance the fibre optic hole debate), but wouldn't
that same living aura stop the spell from leaving? Is a spell smart enough
to go through the fibre optic hole if there is no other escape?

Ray.

-----------------------------------------------------
| The universe is a big place, and whatever happens,|
| You will not be missed |
-----------------------------------------------------

EMAIL: macey@*******.com.au
Message no. 39
From: "Steven A. Tinner" <bluewizard@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: Bug Extermination: How Did They Do That?
Date: Fri, 9 May 1997 10:54:26 -0400
> Where are the rules for Strain III?

Threats.

Ask your GM's permission before reading! ;-)

Steven A. Tinner
bluewizard@*****.com
http://www.ncweb.com/users/bluewizard
"Heads I tell the truth and Tails I lie ..."
Message no. 40
From: "Faux Pas (Thomas)" <thomas@*******.COM>
Subject: Re: Bug Extermination: How Did They Do That?
Date: Fri, 9 May 1997 10:06:29 -0500
At 11:57 PM 5/8/97 -0400, Bull whispered:
>At 09:42 AM 5/8/97 -0500, Faux Pas (Thomas) wrote these timeless words:
>>The Chicago hive was supposed to be the largest North American hive. Which
>>I read as meaning there are other large hives throughout North America and
>>possibly hives as large as the Chicago one on other continents, say in
>>Melbourne or the Essen-Bonn sprawl.
>>
>I agree that there are other hives. this has been hinted at in various
>products. Personally, though, I always assumed that Chicago was the
>largest and most "public" hive. That may not hold true in the future
>though, but you'ld think that if countries other than the States were
>having this large of a problem, FASA would have bothered toat least mention
>it in the ShadowTalk section of the books...

Given that the first Chicago hive exploded prematurely, and that happened
during the crack-down of the UB (this is from Burning Bright), I'm guessing
that the hives in other cities and sprawls were either successful or the
bugs went underground. By going underground, I mean they waited to see
what was going to happen to the Chicago hive, perhaps leaving the trappings
of the UB and starting up different companies or groups to hide behind.

So you've got these large hives in other cities that realized what happened
in Chicago, the queen or still-living shaman realizes that the strike force
on the UB will be knocking down their hive, so they pack up and go. Let's
just pick Atlanta, Georgia as an example. The strike force busts into the
Atlanta hive to find it's empty - apart from a few still-cocooned people
undergoing merges or a token force left to get slaughtered to fool the
strike force into thinking they've destroyed the Atlanta hive. But where
did the real hive go to? And during this time - since the Containment Zone
went up to when it fell - the scattered hives could have relocated and
taken over, let's say the Atlanta Sprawl Child Protection Services. How
many runaway children a year do you think are in one of the five largest
North American sprawls? And now, three game years later, how large do you
think that hive could be?


-Thomas Deeny
Visit http://telltale.hart.org - faster, stronger, better than before!

"... what character deserves to be left alone more at the end of the world
than that idiot Ash?"
-Bruce Campbell on the dropped ending for _Army of Darkness_
Message no. 41
From: "Faux Pas (Thomas)" <thomas@*******.COM>
Subject: Re: Bug Extermination: How Did They Do That?
Date: Fri, 9 May 1997 10:12:22 -0500
At 06:37 PM 5/8/97 -0500, William Monroe Ashe whispered:
>Here's my theory about how Ares got rid of the bugs. Perhaps they figured
>out a way to control Strain III. That astral nasty would make short work
>of the bugs. They'd either be eaten by it, or be forced to move on.
>
>Which would pose an interesting dilemma for Chicago, which was worse
>bugs, or Strain III.
>
>
>Just my random ravings.
>
>Bill

Hey! Didn't I tell you not to read Threats? Be prepared for your
characters to have abnormally short life spans.





-Thomas Deeny
Visit http://telltale.hart.org - faster, stronger, better than before!

"... what character deserves to be left alone more at the end of the world
than that idiot Ash?"
-Bruce Campbell on the dropped ending for _Army of Darkness_
Message no. 42
From: Mark Steedman <M.J.Steedman@***.RGU.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Bug Extermination: How Did They Do That?
Date: Fri, 9 May 1997 16:26:16 GMT
Faux Pas writes

> At 06:37 PM 5/8/97 -0500, William Monroe Ashe whispered:
> >Here's my theory about how Ares got rid of the bugs. Perhaps they figured
> >out a way to control Strain III. That astral nasty would make short work
> >of the bugs. They'd either be eaten by it, or be forced to move on.
> >
> >Which would pose an interesting dilemma for Chicago, which was worse
> >bugs, or Strain III.
> >
> >
> >Just my random ravings.
> >
> >Bill
>
> Hey! Didn't I tell you not to read Threats? Be prepared for your
> characters to have abnormally short life spans.
>
oops!!

First rule on reading things the GM told you to keep away from 'don't
discuss the contents where the GM can hear you!'. You are spoiling
all your own fun anyway.

Terminating thems far too nice, now they know what it does they
should run even faster when they meet it :)

Mark
Message no. 43
From: Max Rible <slothman@*********.ORG>
Subject: Re: Bug Extermination: How Did They Do That?
Date: Fri, 9 May 1997 09:41:03 -0800
At 10:38 PM 5/9/97 +1000, Ray & Tamara wrote:
>Actually, in the circumstance describing the tank, it was stated that the
>tank was covered with moss or whatever, to give it a living aura, and stop
>spirits going through (hance the fibre optic hole debate), but wouldn't
>that same living aura stop the spell from leaving? Is a spell smart enough
>to go through the fibre optic hole if there is no other escape?

Given that mages using fiber optic observation networks to spellcast at
player characters can do it, I'm sure that the same principle works in an
LAV as in a building with wards and/or living walls.

--
%% Max Rible %% slothman@*****.com %% http://www.amurgsval.org/~slothman/ %%
%% "So, an Arisian, a Vorlon, and a knnn go into a tavern..." %%
Message no. 44
From: Max Rible <slothman@*********.ORG>
Subject: Re: Bug Extermination: How Did They Do That?
Date: Fri, 9 May 1997 09:42:21 -0800
At 12:47 PM 5/9/97 +0100, Gurth wrote:
>Sascha Pabst said on 16:53/ 8 May 97...
>> On 7 May 97 at 16:08, Max Rible wrote:
>> > The Bugs are vulnerable to lasers and insecticides.

>> This is the second time you state this. What gives you the idea? I
>> can't remember where lasers and bugs are mentioned.

>I think it's a combination of a couple of rules: SRII page 218, under
>Immunity To Normal Weapons: "Against elemental damage (...) the effect is
>halved." Spirits get ITNW at twice their Force rating against ranged
>attacks only, which would be halved against elemental damage like water
>cannons, flamethrowers, and so on.
>
>Now Awakenings page 132 introduces the elemental effect of light; it could
>be reasoned (as it looks like Max does) that since light is now an
>elemental effect, spirits would get only half their armor rating against
>damage resulting from exposure to light (i.e. lasers).

I thought I remembered a passage explicitly calling that out, but I couldn't
find it in a brief search last night. Maybe I'm having crosstalk between
my own memories and my self in a parallel universe. Can anyone recall a
reference to this, or am I hallucinating again?

--
%% Max Rible %% slothman@*****.com %% http://www.amurgsval.org/~slothman/ %%
%% "So, an Arisian, a Vorlon, and a knnn go into a tavern..." %%
Message no. 45
From: L Canthros <lobo1@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Bug Extermination: How Did They Do That?
Date: Fri, 9 May 1997 16:32:17 EDT
On Thu, 8 May 1997 18:37:05 -0500 William Monroe Ashe
<wma6617@******.TAMU.EDU> writes:
>Here's my theory about how Ares got rid of the bugs. Perhaps they
figured
>out a way to control Strain III. That astral nasty would make short
work
>of the bugs. They'd either be eaten by it, or be forced to move on.

Wouldn't it also eat ghouls, astral perceiving mages, and any spirits,
foci, and the like in the area? While some may see this as a good thing,
I'd bet there are quite a few Dual-natured critters who won't like the
idea...

>Which would pose an interesting dilemma for Chicago, which was worse
>bugs, or Strain III.

Oooooooh....Better the demon you know, I guess. Perhaps you could send in
watchers to destroy the stuff afterwards...

--
-Canthros
And ye shall know the truth, and lobo1@****.com
the truth shall set you free. canthros1@***.com
--John 8:32, KJV
http://members.aol.com/canthros1/
Message no. 46
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Bug Extermination: How Did They Do That?
Date: Fri, 9 May 1997 22:26:19 +0100
|>Which would pose an interesting dilemma for Chicago, which was worse
|>bugs, or Strain III.
|
|Oooooooh....Better the demon you know, I guess. Perhaps you could send in
|watchers to destroy the stuff afterwards...

But... Wouln't it find watchers just as tasty?
--
______________________________________________________________________________
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| "Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?" |
|Andrew Halliwell | |
|Principal subjects in:- | "I think so brain, but this time, you control |
|Comp Sci & Electronics | the Encounter suit, and I'll do the voice..." |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Message no. 47
From: L Canthros <lobo1@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Bug Extermination: How Did They Do That?
Date: Fri, 9 May 1997 17:40:41 EDT
On Fri, 9 May 1997 22:26:19 +0100 Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
writes:
>|>Which would pose an interesting dilemma for Chicago, which was worse
>|>bugs, or Strain III.
>|
>|Oooooooh....Better the demon you know, I guess. Perhaps you could send
in
>|watchers to destroy the stuff afterwards...
>
>But... Wouln't it find watchers just as tasty?

That would be the problem, but they're cheaper than elementals, mages,
shamans, and the like:)

--
-Canthros
And ye shall know the truth, and lobo1@****.com
the truth shall set you free. canthros1@***.com
--John 8:32, KJV
http://members.aol.com/canthros1/
Message no. 48
From: "MARTIN E. GOTTHARD" <s457033@*******.GU.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: Bug Extermination: How Did They Do That?
Date: Sat, 10 May 1997 13:22:25 +1000
> > The Bugs are vulnerable to lasers and insecticides.
>
> This is the second time you state this. What gives you the idea? I
> can't remember where lasers and bugs are mentioned.
>
Don't lasers get resisted on half impact? Makes 'em good bug cutters.

Insecticides are a tricky one; Most of the big ones aren't _that_
vulnerable.
Message no. 49
From: Ray & Tamara <macey@*******.COM.AU>
Subject: Re: Bug Extermination: How Did They Do That?
Date: Sat, 10 May 1997 18:24:26 +1000
> Wouldn't it also eat ghouls, astral perceiving mages, and any spirits,
> foci, and the like in the area? While some may see this as a good thing,
> I'd bet there are quite a few Dual-natured critters who won't like the
> idea...

It doesn't damage astrally projecting/perceiving mages as they do not stay
active on the astral plane for long enough.

Ray.

-----------------------------------------------------
| The universe is a big place, and whatever happens,|
| You will not be missed |
-----------------------------------------------------

EMAIL: macey@*******.com.au
Message no. 50
From: "Steven A. Tinner" <bluewizard@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: Bug Extermination: How Did They Do That?
Date: Sat, 10 May 1997 11:16:19 -0400
Just a thought ... the UCAS may have received a portion of the 4 million
nuyen The Big D gave away for research into preventing "the recent tragedy
in Chicago" (PoaD:DS, Page 25.)

That might have helped them launch an offensive to destroy the bugs.

Steven A. Tinner
bluewizard@*****.com
http://www.ncweb.com/users/bluewizard
"Heads I tell the truth and Tails I lie ..."
Message no. 51
From: Sascha Pabst <Sascha.Pabst@**********.UNI-OLDENBURG.DE>
Subject: Re: Bug Extermination: How Did They Do That?
Date: Sat, 10 May 1997 19:08:35 +0000
On 9 May 97 at 12:47, Gurth wrote:
[snip lasers and spirits]
> I think it's a combination of a couple of rules: SRII page 218, under
> Immunity To Normal Weapons: "Against elemental damage (...) the effect is
> halved." Spirits get ITNW at twice their Force rating against ranged
> attacks only, which would be halved against elemental damage like water
> cannons, flamethrowers, and so on.
>
> Now Awakenings page 132 introduces the elemental effect of light; it could
> be reasoned (as it looks like Max does) that since light is now an
> elemental effect, spirits would get only half their armor rating against
> damage resulting from exposure to light (i.e. lasers).
Ah... finally some page references I can use! Thanx, oh guru, I'll
sacrifice some cheese on your behalf!

> It's:
> Blam. Blam.
> "Stop." Blam.
> "Police." Blam.
> -- Officer Axly
> (page 7, Phoenix Command Small Arms Combat System)
*grin* OK. It's corrected. Thanks again (I'll add a tulip to that
cheese) :-)

Sascha
--
+---___---------+----------------------------------------+--------------------+
| / / _______ | Jhary-a-Conel aka Sascha Pabst | The light at the |
| / /_/ ____/ |Sascha.Pabst@**********.Uni-Oldenburg.de|end of the tunnel is|
| \___ __/ | | the headlight of an|
|==== \_/ ======| *Wearing hats is just a way of life* | approaching train. |
|LOGOUT FASCISM!| - Me | -- Skip (?) |
+------------- http://www.informatik.uni-oldenburg.de/~jhary -----------------+
Message no. 52
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: Bug Extermination: How Did They Do That?
Date: Sat, 10 May 1997 22:30:03 +0100
Sascha Pabst said on 19:08/10 May 97...

[snip more lasers and spirits]
> Ah... finally some page references I can use!

I don't think I'd allow this combination when I GM, though. Light being an
elemental effect is IMHO something different than light being elemental
damage -- I feel that refers to the four elements rather than to elemental
effects. Anyone wanting to give spirits less armor against lasers should
do the same when spirits resist damage from tasers, spilled acids, and
ice lollies, to name a few.

> Thanx, oh guru, I'll sacrifice some cheese on your behalf!
[snip PCSACS quote stuff]
> *grin* OK. It's corrected. Thanks again (I'll add a tulip to that
> cheese) :-)

You have to find a windmill to sacrifice it in :)

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
It wouldn't work. My face is too expressive.
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

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Message no. 53
From: Bull <chaos@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: Bug Extermination: How Did They Do That?
Date: Sat, 10 May 1997 18:07:24 -0400
At 01:22 PM 5/10/97 +1000, MARTIN E. GOTTHARD wrote these timeless words:
>> > The Bugs are vulnerable to lasers and insecticides.
>>
>> This is the second time you state this. What gives you the idea? I
>> can't remember where lasers and bugs are mentioned.
>>
>Don't lasers get resisted on half impact? Makes 'em good bug cutters.
>
>Insecticides are a tricky one; Most of the big ones aren't _that_
>vulnerable.
>
Besides, IIRC, The bugs that you really need to worry about, The Trueforms
(including Queens) aren't effected by Insecticides.

And the Fleshforms, while tough, do NOT have the immunity to weapons...

So...

There is a reason that Bugs are BAD!

My advice:

Fuck the lasers, the big guns, and the insecticides. Get REALLY good with
a hand to hand weapon, preferabbly one with a good reach. And jack your
Willpower up to back up your HTH weapon...

Bull-who's-fought-FAR-too-many-damned-Bugs
--
Now the Offical Celebrity Shadowrn Mailing List Welcome Ork Decker!
Fearless Leader of the Star Wars Mailing List
NEW HOME PAGE!: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/3604/home.html

Bull, aka Steven Ratkovich, aka Rak, aka a lot of others! :]

"The best Ork Decker you never met"
-Me, in the upcoming "Target: UCAS" Shadowrun Sourcebook!
Message no. 54
From: "MARTIN E. GOTTHARD" <s457033@*******.GU.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: Bug Extermination: How Did They Do That?
Date: Sun, 11 May 1997 13:12:30 +1000
> Just a thought ... the UCAS may have received a portion of the 4 million
> nuyen The Big D gave away for research into preventing "the recent traged=
y
> in Chicago" (PoaD:DS, Page 25.)
>
> That might have helped them launch an offensive to destroy the bugs.
>

4 million is a piddle in the ocean; It's about half a Banshee's purchase=

price. You can't waste all the bugs in Chicago with a extra Banshee.

I'd assume that a combat mage would ask around 100k ¥ for such a
dangerous mission, so if you can find 'em, you get 40 extra combat mages
who don't know how to work together, and will just succeed in waking up
all the big spirits in the area.

<shrug>

As far as research goes, today's Chem/Biol or other research takes about
40-50k per year for a basic project that doesn't aim to produce anything
earth-shattering. Larger grants run in the vicinity of 300k per year.

I'd assume that magical research is going to be more expensive, because
of higher cost of staff and materials and equipment that you use. That
means that 4 million is a pidle in the ocean unless it's going to be
matched by every megacorp and govt. in existence.

Marty

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