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From:	Wraith <wraith@************.COM>
Subject:	Bugs in SR
Date:	Thu, 9 Jul 1998 02:24:47 -0500

Message no. 1 Okay, not having the UB sourcebook (and seriously doubting I can find it,
but maybe...) anyway, did they ever describe what's really going on? Okay,
I know the following facts (maybe this is all there are)

Bugs are magical beings that need to come to our existence to mate/make
more.
Spider and Mantids seem to be against the bugs, but not necessarily for the
good of human-kind.
Bugs are against the Enemy/Horror (yeah, yeah, I know they're gone for the
next 1000 years or so :).
Now this last fact kinda confuses me, and a bunch of this is from Novels, so
not exactly Canon.

Dirk's sister was almost turned into a Wasp spirit in 2XS. In House of the
Sun, she comes back as a bug, makes sense she would be a Wasp, right? (I
doubt she was a Mantis because the guy did all the talking). So what's the
deal or is this another FASA mystery? <G>

Wraith

From:	Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject:	Re: Bugs in SR
Date:	Thu, 9 Jul 1998 11:38:37 +0100

Message no. 2 Wraith said on 2:24/9 Jul 98,...

> Okay, not having the UB sourcebook (and seriously doubting I can find it,
> but maybe...) anyway, did they ever describe what's really going on? Okay,
> I know the following facts (maybe this is all there are)

There is no UB _source_book -- it's an adventure (Missing Blood)
and a big player handout. The handout tells the truth behind the
UB as far as some people in the game world have figured it out,
but it's not a true sourcebook. (I won't say more for spoiler
reasons.)

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
"That's IT, lunchbox!!! We'll go to Shermer, Illinois!"
-> NERPS Project Leader * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
-> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-

GC3.1: GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+
PE Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998

From:	"James L. Wells" <MekDaddy@***.COM>
Subject:	Re: Bugs in SR
Date:	Thu, 9 Jul 1998 10:59:04 EDT

Message no. 3 In a message dated 7/9/98 4:39:19 AM Central Daylight Time, gurth@******.NL
writes:

<< There is no UB _source_book -- it's an adventure (Missing Blood)
and a big player handout. The handout tells the truth behind the
UB as far as some people in the game world have figured it out,
but it's not a true sourcebook. (I won't say more for spoiler
reasons.) >>

If I am not mistaken, there was indeed a UB sourcebook/module. As well as the
Missing Blood adventure. I ran it back when it first came out. I was running
a group through all the really nasty modules that noone else wanted to put
their player through at the time. Like Queen Euphoria, anyone remember that
one? :-)

******************************************************************************
********************
Vorlons ask "Who are you?"
Shadows ask "What do you want?"
Humans ask "What the F**K is wrong with you people?!"
******************************************************************************
********************

From:	Lehlan Decker <decker@****.FSU.EDU>
Subject:	Re: Bugs in SR
Date:	Thu, 9 Jul 1998 11:14:00 -0500

Message no. 4 >
> In a message dated 7/9/98 4:39:19 AM Central Daylight Time, gurth@******.NL
> writes:
<SNIP>
> If I am not mistaken, there was indeed a UB sourcebook/module. As well as the
> Missing Blood adventure. I ran it back when it first came out. I was running
> a group through all the really nasty modules that noone else wanted to put
> their player through at the time. Like Queen Euphoria, anyone remember that
> one? :-)
>
Actually the sourcebook was more of a mini novel, put out to Shadowland by
two reporters. Excellent stuff, and one of FASA's best IMHO. The module
missing blood isn't bad, and builds on the info from the sourcebook.
Of course Queen Euphoria is another. My poor players hate
all bugs by now. :) But they did discover new answers to the great PA vs
Samurai debate during that run.

--
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Lehlan Decker (850)644-4534 Systems Development
decker@****.fsu.edu http://www.scri.fsu.edu/~decker
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Morality is moral only when it is voluntary.

From:	Paul Gettle <RunnerPaul@*****.COM>
Subject:	Re: Bugs in SR
Date:	Thu, 9 Jul 1998 11:25:00 -0400

Message no. 5 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

At 10:59 AM 7/9/98 -0400, James wrote:
>In a message dated 7/9/98 4:39:19 AM Central Daylight Time,
gurth@******.NL
>writes:
>
><< There is no UB _source_book -- it's an adventure (Missing Blood)
> and a big player handout. The handout tells the truth behind the
> UB as far as some people in the game world have figured it out,
> but it's not a true sourcebook. (I won't say more for spoiler
> reasons.) >>
>
>If I am not mistaken, there was indeed a UB sourcebook/module. As
well as the
>Missing Blood adventure. I ran it back when it first came out. I
was running
>a group through all the really nasty modules that noone else wanted
to put
>their player through at the time. Like Queen Euphoria, anyone
remember that
>one? :-)

What you're calling a sourcebook, Gurth calls a big player handout.
And you're both right.

To clear up the controversy, on the back cover of the UB overwrap (UB
was an odd product: two slim staple bound booklets, with a cardboard
overwrap cover to make it look like one thick, conventionally bound
book, all shrinkwrapped) FASA states "The Universal Brotherhood is a
sourcebook and adventure for Shadowrun".

However, the 'sourcebook' part of it is little more than a bloated
player handout, with no real stats or game rules, just a long story
and some descriptive narrative about the different bug totems at the
end.

Imagine the Cybertechnology book, minus the toy catalog, the cyberwear
rules section, the cybermancy rules section, and the archtypes and
tables. It'd be Hatchetman's history, his post cybermancy stream of
conciousness, the descriptive narative about cybermancy, and that
cryptic wiretap conversation about cybermancy. That'd certainly be
enough for the GM and players to find out what cybermancy is, but it
wouldn't tell the GM how to run it. By today's standards, that just
doesn't cut it as a sourcebook anymore.
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--
-- Paul Gettle (RunnerPaul@*****.com)
PGP Fingerprint, Key ID:0x48F3AACD (RSA 1024, created 98/06/26)
C260 94B3 6722 6A25 63F8 0690 9EA2 3344

You dare defy my whims?!?
I am the game master; you are my pawns!
I created the world you see before you!
I control your fate!"
-- Dexter, Dexter's Laboratory.

From:	Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject:	Re: Bugs in SR
Date:	Thu, 9 Jul 1998 19:59:36 +0100

Message no. 6 Paul Gettle said on 11:25/9 Jul 98,...

> What you're calling a sourcebook, Gurth calls a big player handout.
> And you're both right.

Right in one, AFAIC.

> Imagine the Cybertechnology book, minus the toy catalog, the cyberwear
> rules section, the cybermancy rules section, and the archtypes and
> tables. It'd be Hatchetman's history, his post cybermancy stream of
> conciousness, the descriptive narative about cybermancy, and that
> cryptic wiretap conversation about cybermancy. That'd certainly be
> enough for the GM and players to find out what cybermancy is, but it
> wouldn't tell the GM how to run it. By today's standards, that just
> doesn't cut it as a sourcebook anymore.

I get the distinct impression the UB was never intended as a
sourcebook. All the info needed to run insect spirits (as much as
there was back then anyway; remember this is long before
Grimoire II and Bug City) is in the adventure book, so it looks to
me like the UB was designed as an adventure with a player
handout, but later on they decided to call it a sourcebook.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
"That's IT, lunchbox!!! We'll go to Shermer, Illinois!"
-> NERPS Project Leader * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
-> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-

GC3.1: GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+
PE Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998

From:	Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject:	Re: Bugs in SR
Date:	Thu, 9 Jul 1998 19:59:35 +0100

Message no. 7 James L. Wells said on 10:59/9 Jul 98,...

> If I am not mistaken, there was indeed a UB sourcebook/module. As well as the
> Missing Blood adventure. I ran it back when it first came out.

To the best of my knowledge, the "book" called "The Universal
Brotherhood" is a thick paper cover containing two books:
"Missing Blood" and a big player handout. Both copies of it that
I've seen (one of them in my possession) were like that.

> I was running
> a group through all the really nasty modules that noone else wanted to put
> their player through at the time. Like Queen Euphoria, anyone remember that
> one? :-)

Of course :) The only problem with these runs, I think, is that
once players have been through one the shock effect wears off a
bit. Most of the players in my group had never encountered insect
spirits when I put them through the UB run, so they got scared
pretty badly *GM grin*

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
"That's IT, lunchbox!!! We'll go to Shermer, Illinois!"
-> NERPS Project Leader * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
-> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-

GC3.1: GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+
PE Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998

From:	Paul Gettle <RunnerPaul@*****.COM>
Subject:	Re: Bugs in SR
Date:	Thu, 9 Jul 1998 14:39:52 -0400

Message no. 8 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

At 07:59 PM 7/9/98 +0100, Gurth wrote:
>Of course :) The only problem with these runs, I think, is that
>once players have been through one the shock effect wears off a
>bit. Most of the players in my group had never encountered insect
>spirits when I put them through the UB run, so they got scared
>pretty badly *GM grin*

Heh.
It doesn't quite work that way, in my experience. Back when those were
current adventures, my group was switching off GMs every adventure or
so. Me and one of the other GMs had bought UB and Queen Euphoria
independently of each other. The group got to run Queen Euphoria
first, and then I was stuck with the UB adventure I'd already paid
good money for. I put the group through that one next, severely
traumatizing the characters and the players.

We had one character commit suicide mid-run, and our mage developed
the worst bug phobia imaginable (She actually cast a huge f-ing
fireball spell when she saw something that looked like an ant.
Unfortunately, the runner team was in an elevator at the time.)
Another character ran away to europe.

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--
-- Paul Gettle (RunnerPaul@*****.com)
PGP Fingerprint, Key ID:0x48F3AACD (RSA 1024, created 98/06/26)
C260 94B3 6722 6A25 63F8 0690 9EA2 3344

You dare defy my whims?!?
I am the game master; you are my pawns!
I created the world you see before you!
I control your fate!"
-- Dexter, Dexter's Laboratory.

From:	Nexx Many-Scars <Nexx3@***.COM>
Subject:	Re: Bugs in SR
Date:	Thu, 9 Jul 1998 15:40:39 EDT

Message no. 9 In a message dated 98-07-09 14:01:12 EDT, you write:

> Of course :) The only problem with these runs, I think, is that
> once players have been through one the shock effect wears off a
> bit. Most of the players in my group had never encountered insect
> spirits when I put them through the UB run, so they got scared
> pretty badly *GM grin*

Yeah, well, the Naked Dwarf's first run with a new group was Double
Exposure... though he did have a fun time playing a homeless drunk... like
going astral and freaking out about it as a distraction... they kept chasing
me, so I kept doing weirder and weirder stuff while my friends on the ground
hacked the computer system (gods, I loved Norman) and broke into a shed to
find out what was in there...

Nexx, the Reminiscent man

From:	Wiebke & Birger Timm <WiebkeT@********.DE>
Subject:	Re: Bugs in SR
Date:	Thu, 9 Jul 1998 20:30:03 +0200

Message no. 10 Wraith wrote:

> Okay, not having the UB sourcebook (and seriously doubting I can find it,
> but maybe...) anyway, did they ever describe what's really going on? Okay,
> I know the following facts (maybe this is all there are)
>
> Bugs are magical beings that need to come to our existence to mate/make
> more.
> Spider and Mantids seem to be against the bugs, but not necessarily for the
> good of human-kind.

In Nuke City by Tom Dowd mantids are clearly against humankind.
BTW comparing the mage (Kyle) and his actions form Nuke City to the shadowrun
rules he has to be VERY powerful, hasn't he?

Blix

From:	MC23 <mc23@**********.COM>
Subject:	Re: Bugs in SR
Date:	Fri, 10 Jul 1998 04:29:23 -0400

Message no. 11 Once upon a time, Paul Gettle wrote;

>To clear up the controversy, on the back cover of the UB overwrap (UB
>was an odd product: two slim staple bound booklets, with a cardboard
>overwrap cover to make it look like one thick, conventionally bound
>book, all shrinkwrapped) FASA states "The Universal Brotherhood is a
>sourcebook and adventure for Shadowrun".

"You've got your sourcebook in my adventure!"
"You've got your adventure in my sourcebook!"

"Hey! It tastes great!"

From:	NightRain <nightrain@***.BRISNET.ORG.AU>
Subject:	Re: Bugs in SR
Date:	Fri, 10 Jul 1998 19:35:52 +1000

Message no. 12 > -----Original Message-----
> From: Shadowrun Discussion [mailto:SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET]On
> Behalf Of Wraith
> Sent: Thursday, July 09, 1998 5:25 PM
>
>
> Spider and Mantids seem to be against the bugs, but not
> necessarily for the
> good of human-kind.
> Bugs are against the Enemy/Horror (yeah, yeah, I know
> they're gone for the
> next 1000 years or so :).
> Now this last fact kinda confuses me, and a bunch of this
> is from Novels, so
> not exactly Canon.

It confuses you that they are against the enemy? I'd think it was
simply because they are both competing for the same thing that makes
them enemies.

SPOILER SPACE FOR 2XS and HOUSE of THE SUN

> Dirk's sister was almost turned into a Wasp spirit in 2XS.
> In House of the
> Sun, she comes back as a bug, makes sense she would be a
> Wasp, right? (I

She was turned into a wasp in the first one, no one knew that's all.

> doubt she was a Mantis because the guy did all the
> talking). So what's the
> deal or is this another FASA mystery? <G>

I don't understand. What is the mystery meant to be?

NightRain.

----------------------------------------------------------------------
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EMAIL : nightrain@***.brisnet.org.au
: macey@***.brisnet.org.au
ICQ : 2587947

From:	K is the Symbol <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Subject:	Re: Bugs in SR
Date:	Fri, 10 Jul 1998 15:58:03 EDT

Message no. 13 In a message dated 7/10/98 9:33:49 AM US Eastern Standard Time, WiebkeT@**
ONLINE.DE writes:

> In Nuke City by Tom Dowd mantids are clearly against humankind.
> BTW comparing the mage (Kyle) and his actions form Nuke City to the
> shadowrun
> rules he has to be VERY powerful, hasn't he?
>
No actually, he doesn't. His Grade 4 (IIRC in the Bug City book) is actually
right on par for what he was doing. Also remember that in a book, or even a
"real time" game at home, it is possible to describe stuff in a dramatic or
melodramatic fashion. Often the more descriptive, the better the imagery the
reader/players get in return.

In the game playing, that is also a way to get some more drama or role-playing
points earned.

-K

Power is a State of Mind. Real Power is a Position in the Mind.

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