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Message no. 1
From: Nimster nimster@*********.net.il
Subject: Bugs (No, not the chicago type)
Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2000 04:33:00 +0200
Hey,
An idea just came to my mind (Well, you can guess how if you read my
off-topic post ;) ). What if you'd have buggy matrix software? It could cost
less and take less time to program, but be more sensitive for example. Or,
you can just say that all programs made on the fly can have chance of being
buggy.
And even better, how about adding Exploits? Those would be programs that are
built to attack a certain kind of IC more efficiently. For example, a Tar
Pit 6 shielding exploit (yes, I know tar pits can't have shielding - an
offensive IC didn't come to mind. Long time no play SR...). Of course,
stronger exploits will be harder to program, and take hugh amounts of
memory - But still they are very limited, so that should balance it out.
So my questions to you:
A) What do you think of the idea?
B) Does something similiar exists, and where?
C) How to rule it?
I've got some ideas on the latter, but I want to see what you have to say
first. I'll post my idea when I see all responses and finish ruling it, and
see what you guys think.
Thanks,

-Nimster
I heard life sucks, that's why I'm glad I don't have it.
Message no. 2
From: Gurth gurth@******.nl
Subject: Bugs (No, not the chicago type)
Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2000 10:51:52 +0200
According to Nimster, at 4:33 on 11 Aug 00, the word on the street was...

> An idea just came to my mind (Well, you can guess how if you read my
> off-topic post ;) ). What if you'd have buggy matrix software? It could cost
> less and take less time to program, but be more sensitive for example. Or,
> you can just say that all programs made on the fly can have chance of being
> buggy.

All I'll say about this is: before you write any rules, pick up the latest
SR sourcebook, which should (hopefully) be released at GenCon, this
weekend.

> And even better, how about adding Exploits? Those would be programs that are
> built to attack a certain kind of IC more efficiently. For example, a Tar
> Pit 6 shielding exploit (yes, I know tar pits can't have shielding - an
> offensive IC didn't come to mind. Long time no play SR...). Of course,
> stronger exploits will be harder to program, and take hugh amounts of
> memory - But still they are very limited, so that should balance it out.

That doesn't really exist yet, AFAIK. It may be handy, though I have a
feeling it would be more efficient to simply upgrade your basic utility so
you get the same net effect, but against all targets, not just a specific
type of IC.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Imagine doing just what the Big Bang did
-> NAGEE Editor * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://plastic.dumpshock.com <-

GC3.1: GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+@ UL P L+ E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+
PE Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X+ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 3
From: Patrick Goodman pgoodman13@*************.com
Subject: Bugs (No, not the chicago type)
Date: Sat, 12 Aug 2000 00:41:21 -0500
From: Nimster
Sent: Thursday, August 10, 2000 9:33 PM

>An idea just came to my mind (Well, you can guess how if you
>read my off-topic post ;) ). What if you'd have buggy matrix
>software? It could cost less and take less time to program,
>but be more sensitive for example.

<snippage>

>A) What do you think of the idea?
>B) Does something similiar exists, and where?
>C) How to rule it?

Patience, Grasshopper. I think you should wait for THE MATRIX to come to
your town, and see what's in it. It might address this. Or it might not;
what it addresses at the moment is something of a mystery since I've not
seen it.

Throw this back out after MATRIX hits the stands and we've all had a chance
to flip through it and see what's there.

--
Patrick E. Goodman
pgoodman13@************.com
"I'm going to tell you something cool." -- Gene Wolfe
http://communities.msn.com/ShadowrunDataHaven/
Message no. 4
From: Phil Smith phil_urbanhell@*******.com
Subject: Bugs (No, not the chicago type)
Date: Sat, 12 Aug 2000 09:30:22 GMT
>From: "Nimster" <nimster@*********.net.il>
>So my questions to you:
>A) What do you think of the idea?

Not bad, I've thought of it before; see below.

>B) Does something similiar exists, and where?

Yep, VR2.

>C) How to rule it?

Every level of programming options increases/reduces the effective rating of
the programme for the purposes of working out the memory it takes up.

I once wrote some bugs as options that looked a lot like this;

“640K ought to be enough for anyone”
-Bill Gates 1984

Bugs; Some Utility Options

These options vary from most of those in the book in that they have a
negative effect on the programme. Little in the way of an explanation is
necissary.

Crashes -1
The programme has an error in its code which causes it to cease working.
Whenever the decker uses the programme roll a D6, on a roll of a 1 it
crashes

Slow -1/level
The programme requires more attention from the deck to run, for as long as
this programme is running, reduce the decker’s initiative by 2 for each
level of slow.

Delay -1
This programme has a tendancy to work in jumps and starts. When it is used
roll a 1D6, on a roll of a 1-3 it will not work until the start of the next
combat round, the decker does not have to take another action; the programme
just carries out her instructions late.

Conflicts -1 to -3
The programme simply does not like another kind of programme and will not
run whilst both programmes are in the active memory of the same deck. The
value of this option depends on the kind of programme it conflicts with; an
Attack-S programme that will not run whilst there is an Attack-M programme
on the deck is not going to give the decker many problems and should not be
allowed any level of Conflicts, however, an Attack-S programme that will not
run whilst there is a Sleaze utility on board is worth the full -3 points.

Phil

Let us assume we have a can opener.
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Message no. 5
From: Fyre - AKA Colin fyre@******.demon.co.uk
Subject: Bugs (No, not the chicago type)
Date: Sat, 12 Aug 2000 12:11:23 +0100
In article <001501c0033c$79705560$939a003e@*******>, Nimster
<nimster@*********.net.il> writes
>Hey,
>An idea just came to my mind (Well, you can guess how if you read my
>off-topic post ;) ). What if you'd have buggy matrix software? It could cost
>less and take less time to program, but be more sensitive for example. Or,
>you can just say that all programs made on the fly can have chance of being
>buggy.

Perhaps they don't work (or have a chance of not working) at the same
time as some other pieces of software? IE: If you purchace a buggy
program you roll on a table to find out what sorts of software it
dosen't work with. If you ever try to run it with the specified type of
software it could have a chance to crash the other program or make it
run less efficiently (IE: 1 less die...)

>And even better, how about adding Exploits? Those would be programs that are
>built to attack a certain kind of IC more efficiently. For example, a Tar
>Pit 6 shielding exploit (yes, I know tar pits can't have shielding - an
>offensive IC didn't come to mind. Long time no play SR...). Of course,
>stronger exploits will be harder to program, and take hugh amounts of
>memory - But still they are very limited, so that should balance it out.
>So my questions to you:
>A) What do you think of the idea?

I like it, I could see a specialised 'Black IC Melt' program

>B) Does something similiar exists, and where?

I don't think so, although I would not use the 'extra large' approach. I
would make it a single, small, program which can only be used against
the specific type of IC.

>C) How to rule it?

As I said, it don't do shit against anything but it's target, but when
it is activated it rolls a fair number of dice and lowers your TN to
boot. You could perhaps have it lower the initiative of the target (and
do other nasty things) to represent how your program knows exactly how
the target works and can give it a real screwing over

>I've got some ideas on the latter, but I want to see what you have to say
>first. I'll post my idea when I see all responses and finish ruling it, and
>see what you guys think.
>Thanks,
>
It's a fairly cool idea.
One program which I want to see is the vicarious invasion virus, or VIV,
which is one nasty pieces of infectious software I had an idea for. It's
basically the self-hacking virus which doesn't do the work itself. It
instead waits until a computer is accessed through the node it's on and
piggy-backs itself on this access attempt, uploading itself to the next
system. IE: If it detects an FTP transfer it will attempt to transfer
itself instead of/with the desired file(s)... I'm sure that could be
converted to the SR world...
DarkFyre
--
fyre@******.demon.co.uk
Message no. 6
From: Nimster nimster@*********.net.il
Subject: Bugs (No, not the chicago type)
Date: Sat, 12 Aug 2000 17:14:18 +0200
<Snippity snip snip>

> It's a fairly cool idea.
> One program which I want to see is the vicarious invasion virus, or VIV,
> which is one nasty pieces of infectious software I had an idea for. It's
> basically the self-hacking virus which doesn't do the work itself. It
> instead waits until a computer is accessed through the node it's on and
> piggy-backs itself on this access attempt, uploading itself to the next
> system. IE: If it detects an FTP transfer it will attempt to transfer
> itself instead of/with the desired file(s)... I'm sure that could be
> converted to the SR world...
> DarkFyre
> --
>

I like that idea! You could make it the next SR plotline, a la bug city /
the dunkhelzun (sp?) murder, or the new coming Comet Year (any info on that,
anyone?)
It needs some reshaping, because if it'll affect the whole matrix, that
would simply eliminate its use, but if someone gave thought as to who put it
there in the first place, etc... Can be some nice material for a net.book.

-Nimster
Message no. 7
From: . s t e f a n stefan@*****.org
Subject: Bugs (No, not the chicago type)
Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2000 01:44:57 +0200
>A) What do you think of the idea?

It's excellent cause there never will be bug free code and the longer and
more complex your program is the more likely you are to have bugs and i
guess software ain't exactly going to get any smaller any time soon.

If you have flaws and edges I guess you could do something with this to.

Flaw: Crappy Coder :)
You always write sub-standard code. (the upside is you could get a job at
microsoft :] )


.stefan




------------------------------------------------------------------------
"frag you and the datastream you came on!" - sinjin the decker
------------------------------------------------------------------------
... email ....................................... stefan@*****.org ...
... homepage .................................. http://litbo.org/ ...
... icq ................................................... 793828 ...
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Message no. 8
From: Nimster nimster@*********.net.il
Subject: Bugs (No, not the chicago type)
Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2000 03:18:18 +0200
<snip>

> Flaw: Crappy Coder :)
> You always write sub-standard code. (the upside is you could get a job at
> microsoft :] )
>

ROFL! :)
Anyway, this has no mechanics until we get mechanics for buggy programs,
which shall wait until we know if it's in Matrix or not. Alas, it's a good
flaw, really, and could have the equivilent edge, however the edge hould be
worth more then the flaw, since I'm sure most power-hungry deckers would
want it otherwise.


> .stefan
>
Message no. 9
From: Jeff Long jalong8@****.com
Subject: Bugs (No, not the chicago type)
Date: Sat, 12 Aug 2000 21:01:23 -0500
----- Original Message -----
From: "Nimster" <nimster@*********.net.il>
To: <shadowrn@*********.com>

> <snip>
>
> > Flaw: Crappy Coder :)
> > You always write sub-standard code. (the upside is you could get a job
at
> > microsoft :] )
> >
>
> ROFL! :)
> Anyway, this has no mechanics until we get mechanics for buggy programs,
> which shall wait until we know if it's in Matrix or not. Alas, it's a good
> flaw, really, and could have the equivilent edge, however the edge hould
be
> worth more then the flaw, since I'm sure most power-hungry deckers would
> want it otherwise.

Good news there are Optional rules for buggy programs in the Matrix book.
IIRC after skimming thru the book after I got home the rules go something
along these lines:

After a program is made there is a check (of what sort I forget) to see how
many bugs are still in the program. This is represented by a secret GM
roll. Every x amount of times the program is used (x = the number gotten on
the secret GM roll) the program is affected by one or more of the bugs still
unresolved. The GM then consults a chart to determine the effect the bug
has upon things. This can range from a minor glitch to the cyberterminal
being used crashing (possibly corrupting other data as well though I'm not
sure on this).

Of course the decker can try to fix the program, purging it of the bugs.

hope this helps.

Jalong1
Message no. 10
From: Gurth gurth@******.nl
Subject: Bugs (No, not the chicago type)
Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2000 12:34:13 +0200
According to Nimster, at 3:18 on 13 Aug 00, the word on the street was...

> Anyway, this has no mechanics until we get mechanics for buggy programs,
> which shall wait until we know if it's in Matrix or not.

I think I can mention this now that the book is out, but rules for buggy
software were in the more-or-less-final draft so I'd be surprised if they
didn't make it into the actual book.

Every time you write a program, you make a test to see how long it takes
for a bug to show up, and when it does, the GM rolls on a little table to
find the exact effects (ranging from a -1 rating modifier to a total
system crash); this should be in the Programming chapter, but I can't
quote you a page number :)

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Imagine doing just what the Big Bang did
-> NAGEE Editor * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://plastic.dumpshock.com <-

GC3.1: GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+@ UL P L+ E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+
PE Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X+ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 11
From: expatrie@*******.net expatrie@*******.net
Subject: Bugs (No, not the chicago type)
Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2000 12:39:53 -0600
Ok.

Building a program that is only good against one type of ic.

some of that stuff is covered in vr2.0. use sensitive option (-1 rating)
to make it work on only one system (renraku? operating systems? i don't
recall the wording), and use limit (also -1 rating? -25% size, don't
recall) to make it only effective against a specific type of ice (attack
only works on Frames, ic, persona, like that). That should model nicely
a specialized program intended to destroy only one thing.



_____NetZero Free Internet Access and Email______
http://www.netzero.net/download/index.html
Message no. 12
From: Fyre - AKA Colin fyre@******.demon.co.uk
Subject: Bugs (No, not the chicago type)
Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2000 22:48:41 +0100
In article <005e01c0046f$fd0de0c0$2e9a003e@*******>, Nimster
<nimster@*********.net.il> writes
><Snippity snip snip>
>
>> It's a fairly cool idea.
>> One program which I want to see is the vicarious invasion virus, or VIV,
>> which is one nasty pieces of infectious software I had an idea for. It's
>> basically the self-hacking virus which doesn't do the work itself. It
>> instead waits until a computer is accessed through the node it's on and
>> piggy-backs itself on this access attempt, uploading itself to the next
>> system. IE: If it detects an FTP transfer it will attempt to transfer
>> itself instead of/with the desired file(s)... I'm sure that could be
>> converted to the SR world...
>> DarkFyre
>> --
>>
>
>I like that idea! You could make it the next SR plotline, a la bug city /
>the dunkhelzun (sp?) murder, or the new coming Comet Year (any info on that,
>anyone?)
>It needs some reshaping, because if it'll affect the whole matrix, that
>would simply eliminate its use, but if someone gave thought as to who put it
>there in the first place, etc... Can be some nice material for a net.book.
>
Well: The way I figure it happened was this: A corp / organisation had
set itself the goal of creating a completely undetectable program. A
program so clever that it even alters programs designed to look for it,
adding a 'blind-spot'.

Preliminary results were satisfactory and so the next phase was carried
out; that of searching for a way to allow it to spread un-detected.
Simply having the virus hack directly could be detected and would make
the virus take-up allot more space (hence you'd get the 'where did those
MP go?' syndrome) so this was rejected.

That was where someone came-up with the idea of the vicarious approach.
It uses nothing but a search engine (the basics for which are in the
stealth module anyway) and a few infection vectors (IE: piggy-back...),
for when it finds an opportunity.

Now the virus is practically transparent, and is infecting test
computers in the lab left right and centre. It would have spread outside
there and then had it not been for the data quarantine around the test
computers.

The third phase of the project was the most complex; this virus was (by
the way) to be the ultimate spy. Only one more task needed to be
accomplished before this was possible: if it was to do everything they
wanted it to, it had to know what they wanted it to do. They needed a
way to communicate with it properly, and covertly.

This is where the 'Black Envelope' idea was conceived. Each system lends
it's 'active stealth' system not-only to the concealment of itself but
to the creation of a secret 'pass the parcel' chain through all of the
systems in the infected network. Instructions are injected into the
system via either someone with the correct access codes, or through a
control node (from where the progress of the virus can also be
monitored).

The instructions given could do anything from modify the virus as a
whole to upload a hacking program to a front-line node (just in-case the
passive approach isn't working, which can happen with 'quiet' nodes).
The black passage also allows any access-code-privileged deckers to
travel at will through the matrix anywhere within the infected area.

Well: The following could probably be done better by people who know
more about the SR world than me so I'll leave it open a bit:

It reached the matrix after <event> on-purpose/by accident/through
malicious act (Del as appropriate). It is(not) still under the control
of <Megacorp/Criminal organisation/Uber-AI name here>.

If you want to fit it into the world without it totally screwing the
matrix up you could try the following: It got into the matrix, and
infected most of it (screwing over most of the world's computer systems
depending on how malicious the controllers were) but was destroyed when
the 'kill' package was delivered around the virus by itself. Hence it
happened, but will not change the matrix forever...

There is also the question of how something that is so perfect at hiding
itself hasn't been done before, but it's just not the same if any old
virus checker can find it...
DarkFyre
--
fyre@******.demon.co.uk
Message no. 13
From: NeoJudas neojudas@******************.com
Subject: Bugs (No, not the chicago type)
Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2000 11:55:08 -0500
From: "Nimster" <nimster@*********.net.il>
Subject: Bugs (No, not the chicago type)


> Hey,
> An idea just came to my mind (Well, you can guess how if you read my
> off-topic post ;) ). What if you'd have buggy matrix software? It could
cost
> less and take less time to program, but be more sensitive for example. Or,
> you can just say that all programs made on the fly can have chance of
being
> buggy.

See "The Matrix" Soon-to-be-in-Stores

> And even better, how about adding Exploits? Those would be programs that
are
> built to attack a certain kind of IC more efficiently. For example, a Tar
> Pit 6 shielding exploit (yes, I know tar pits can't have shielding - an
> offensive IC didn't come to mind. Long time no play SR...). Of course,
> stronger exploits will be harder to program, and take hugh amounts of
> memory - But still they are very limited, so that should balance it out.
> So my questions to you:
> A) What do you think of the idea?

See Above.

> B) Does something similiar exists, and where?

See Above.

> C) How to rule it?

Read the book and garner lots of nasty ideas...

> I've got some ideas on the latter, but I want to see what you have to say
> first. I'll post my idea when I see all responses and finish ruling it,
and
> see what you guys think.
> Thanks,

You're welcome, more information coming as we go along... still going
through video tapes atm.
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
NeoJudas ("K" to Some)
"Children of the Kernel: Reborn"
Hoosier Hacker House (www.hoosierhackerhouse.com)
Message no. 14
From: Andrew Gryphon webmaster@*********.com
Subject: Bugs (No, not the chicago type)
Date: Sat, 19 Aug 2000 00:40:16 -0500
on 8/14/00 11:55 AM, NeoJudas at neojudas@******************.com e-scribed:

> See "The Matrix" Soon-to-be-in-Stores

Let's keep in mind that anyone's welcome to make up whatever rules they
want, regardless of supplements. Me, I'm still using 1st edition because it
works for me & I can't afford to replace all my books.

--
Andrew Gryphon
http://www.Wyrmworks.com
Taking Role-Playing to the next level

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