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Message no. 1
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Zebulin Magby)
Subject: Built for SPEED
Date: Wed Jul 11 21:05:01 2001
Something for y'all to look at, and pick apart...

---[BEGIN]---

The Speed Demon
2063 SK Prototype "Euphoria"


Handling: 0/4
Speed: 483 (1207*) *NOTE: Speed with NOS Boost
Acceleration: 47
Body: 3
Armor: 0
Signature: 2
Autonav: 0
AutoPilot: 0
Sensors: 6
Cargo: 2.5CF
Load: 14kg
Seating: b(e) + b
Entry: 2d + t
Fuel: 110L
Economy: 10km/L
Chassis: Sports Car
Engine: Diesel
Street Index: 2
Availability: 80 days** **NOTE: Availability reflects build time.
Cost: 1.6M¥**

Design Options:

Smart Materials (+1 to Stress Test)
Structural Agility: 3 (+3 Reaction, Control Pool)
Drive-by-Wire: 3
Extra Fuel Capacity, Improved Economy, Cargo Space, Load, Speed
Engine Customization: 7 (Will NOT fail, TN: 14 - rolled 15, 13, 9, 7, 3,
1)
Nitrous Oxide Injectors: 6 (+6 dice in Accel/Decel Test)
Contingency Maneuvering Controls: 9
Datajack Port (Rigger Access, +1 Reaction, Control Pool)
APPS (Halves Crash Power)
Crash Cage (+6 dice in Crash Test)
Enviroseal: Gas, Water, Engine, Over-pressurization
Life-Support: 20h
Roll-bars (+3 dice in Crash Test)
Sensors: 6
Anti-theft System: 10***
Driver's Ejection Seat
Photovoltaic Chameleon Paint***
Infrared/Whitelite Spotlights***

Accessories:

Run-flat Performance Racing Tires
***NOTES:

Anti-theft system is set up as follows-
Using a small transmitter as an identifier, if the proximity detector
detects a stranger nearing the vehicle, the anti-theft system will activate
the Shock System (10S), which will also trigger the photovoltaic paint to
switch schemes to that of local law enforcement agency's markings. Once the
stranger leaves the detection radius (~2m), the shock option will deactivate
and the chameleon paint will switch back to the normal jet-black.

The spotlights are housed in the headlight assembly and appear (when not in
use) like another set of bulbs, like the two bulb Hi/Low system in many
cars. In this case, however, there are three sets of bulbs in the headlight
assemblies: Hi-beam, Low beam, and the dual Infrared and Whitelite beams.
Flipping a switch near the headlight switch in the driver compartment
controls the latter.

Please note that when the NOS system is turned on, the car will instantly
accelerate to 2.5 times it's current speed (to a maximum of 1207). From that
point on, the car will decelerate at its Acceleration rating until it's
reached its cruising speed again. A Deceleration Test can be used to slow
this process. At its top speed, the car will have broken the speed of Sound
and so caution should be used when engaging the NOS system. (It should be
noted that the use of NOS is patently illegal in the UCAS in anything except
purpose-built and driven race cars. Also, while the car is traveling at
supersonic speeds, anyone standing nearby could be seriously hurt by the
following shockwave.)

This vehicle is a prototype only. It cannot be purchased from a dealership,
it is one-of-a-kind. The availability and price reflect the time and effort
to build and assemble each part by hand.


---[END]---

So, whaddya think? (Yes, that customization level was rolled on 6d6 with a
final target number of 14. I rolled a 15. :)

I didn't add turbo-charging, but I didn't really think it was necessary.
Speaking of which, anyone else think a car should have to make a stress test
when you kick in the NOS?

Zebulin


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Message no. 2
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Valeu John EMFA)
Subject: Built for SPEED
Date: Wed Jul 11 23:55:01 2001
>Something for y'all to look at, and pick apart...

<[Snip and save]>

>So, whaddya think? (Yes, that customization level was rolled on 6d6 with a
>final target number of 14. I rolled a 15. :)

>I didn't add turbo-charging, but I didn't really think it was necessary.
>Speaking of which, anyone else think a car should have to make a stress
test
>when you kick in the NOS?

>Zebulin

I could talk to a few air-dales but I believe that it would be one helluva
stress test if the driver of this car did decide to crack the sound barrier.
It's been awhile but I think that no land vechile (including those rocket
cars tested at Salt Flats in Utah) has yet to break the sound barrier. I
think the main reason is structual support.

Like I said, I'll talk to some airmen and get some specifics for you, but I
think this is the main reason.

EMFA John Valeu
-AKA- TimeKeeper

"Critics are like eunuchs in a harem: They know how it's done, they've seen
it done everyday, but they're unable to do it themselves"
--Brendan Behan
Message no. 3
From: shadowrn@*********.com (shadowrn@*********.com)
Subject: Built for SPEED
Date: Thu Jul 12 00:05:01 2001
>It's been awhile but I think that no land vechile (including those rocket
>cars tested at Salt Flats in Utah) has yet to break the sound barrier. I
>think the main reason is structual support.


It's always good to check facts before making a statement.

Check this website, or if you can't, below is the gist of it

http://www.guinnessworldrecords.com/record_catagories/recordhome.asp?RecordI
D=43540

>Thrust SSC (Super Sonic Car) completed its record-breaking run in a matter
of seconds, but was the culmination of six years of work and a six-week,
on-site campaign. Two and a half years of research went into the shape of
the car. It took a further two years and 100,000 man-hours to build. Its
twin Rolls-Royce afterburning turbofans – the same as those found on
Phantom jet fighters – generate 22,680 kg. (50,000 lb.) of thrust. At
82,027 kW. (110,000 hp.), Thrust SSC is more powerful than 1,000 average,
1.6-liter family cars. Despite being 16.45 m. (54 ft.) long, and weighing
10,400 kg. (22,928 lb.), Thrust SSC accelerates at a phenomenal rate,
reaching 96.56 km./h. (60 m.p.h.) in 2.5 seconds, and 965.6 km./h. (600
m.p.h.) in 16 seconds. Thrust SSC was the brainchild of Richard Noble, who
set the previous land speed record of 1019.467 km./h. (633.468 m.p.h.) in
Thrust 2 in 1984. It was the first land vehicle ever to break the sound
barrier, and the resultant sonic boom shook the school in the nearby town
of Gerlach, causing sprinkler covers to fall off.


Enjoy

Dave
Message no. 4
From: shadowrn@*********.com (sven)
Subject: Built for SPEED
Date: Thu Jul 12 04:30:01 2001
Zebulin Magby wrote:

<snip>
> I didn't add turbo-charging, but I didn't really think it was
> necessary. Speaking of which, anyone else think a car should
> have to make a stress test when you kick in the NOS?

I would together with some serious handling tests, but I'm really
worrying about is: how do you stop that _thing_ once the NOS kicked in?
:)

Just my thoughts,

-sven ;)
--
Message no. 5
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Valeu John EMFA)
Subject: Built for SPEED
Date: Thu Jul 12 04:40:01 2001
> >Thrust SSC (Super Sonic Car) completed its record-breaking run in a
> matter
> of seconds, but was the culmination of six years of work and a six-week,
> on-site campaign. Two and a half years of research went into the shape of
> the car. It took a further two years and 100,000 man-hours to build. Its
> twin Rolls-Royce afterburning turbofans - the same as those found on
> Phantom jet fighters - generate 22,680 kg. (50,000 lb.) of thrust. At
> 82,027 kW. (110,000 hp.), Thrust SSC is more powerful than 1,000 average,
> 1.6-liter family cars. Despite being 16.45 m. (54 ft.) long, and weighing
> 10,400 kg. (22,928 lb.), Thrust SSC accelerates at a phenomenal rate,
> reaching 96.56 km./h. (60 m.p.h.) in 2.5 seconds, and 965.6 km./h. (600
> m.p.h.) in 16 seconds. Thrust SSC was the brainchild of Richard Noble, who
> set the previous land speed record of 1019.467 km./h. (633.468 m.p.h.) in
> Thrust 2 in 1984. It was the first land vehicle ever to break the sound
> barrier, and the resultant sonic boom shook the school in the nearby town
> of Gerlach, causing sprinkler covers to fall off.
>
>
> Enjoy
>
> Dave
>
[Valeu John EMFA]

I stand corrected. But still I think the car in question is a
two-seater passenger vehicle (or at least designed to look like one). The
Thrust SSC was specifically for this purpose and only had seating for one.
Not only that, the Thrust had jet turbine engines, the Euphoria has a custom
built diesel engine. I can see this thing smashing world records, not
cursing down the street.

I think the theft deterant system is what's throwing me off.
<paste>
the anti-theft system will activate
the Shock System (10S), which will also trigger the
photovoltaic paint to
switch schemes to that of local law enforcement agency's
markings. Once the
stranger leaves the detection radius (~2m), the shock option
will deactivate
and the chameleon paint will switch back to the normal
jet-black.

The Thrust was designed and built for one purpose... make it's
creators famous. I would gladdly allow this car with the NOS tuned down
some. Otherwise, no dice.

I'm reminded of a guy with an Impala, a solid fuel rocket, a dream,
and a cliff face....
Message no. 6
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Iridios)
Subject: Built for SPEED
Date: Thu Jul 12 06:15:01 2001
caelric@****.com wrote:
>
> >It's been awhile but I think that no land vechile (including those rocket
> >cars tested at Salt Flats in Utah) has yet to break the sound barrier. I
> >think the main reason is structual support.
>
> It's always good to check facts before making a statement.
>
> Check this website, or if you can't, below is the gist of it
>
> http://www.guinnessworldrecords.com/record_catagories/recordhome.asp?RecordI
> DC540

In defense of John. Its also good to remember that some people do not have
access to websites to check such facts.

--
Iridios

Pendere Et Illegitimi Non Carborundum
Message no. 7
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Valeu John EMFA)
Subject: Built for SPEED
Date: Thu Jul 12 06:50:01 2001
caelric@****.com wrote:
>
> >It's been awhile but I think that no land vechile (including those rocket
> >cars tested at Salt Flats in Utah) has yet to break the sound barrier. I
> >think the main reason is structual support.
>
> It's always good to check facts before making a statement.
>
> Check this website, or if you can't, below is the gist of it
>
>
http://www.guinnessworldrecords.com/record_catagories/recordhome.asp?RecordI
> DC540

In defense of John. Its also good to remember that some people do not have
access to websites to check such facts.

--
Iridios


Arigato Iridios. That is the main reason why I always say 'I think' or 'I'm
not positive, but'. Besides, how many cars since then have done such a
feat?
Message no. 8
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Wavy Davy)
Subject: Built for SPEED
Date: Thu Jul 12 08:15:00 2001
On Thu, 12 Jul 2001, Valeu John EMFA wrote:

> I think the theft deterant system is what's throwing me off.
> <paste>
> the anti-theft system will activate
> the Shock System (10S), which will also trigger the
> photovoltaic paint to
> switch schemes to that of local law enforcement agency's
> markings. Once the
> stranger leaves the detection radius (~2m), the shock option
> will deactivate
> and the chameleon paint will switch back to the normal
> jet-black.

!!!! Are you saying this car looks like a patrol car! If it does,
passing the sound barrier would rip it apart! As i understand it,
passing the sound barrier produces a cone of sound that everything on
the vehicle must be inside. Thats why some planes have variable sweep
wings, so that they are not torn off when passing the sound barrier.
I'm sure the aerodynamics ar different on the ground, but I reckon a car
that can break mach 1 would look outlandishly different, more like a
formula one car. And I for one would be most amused by a formula one car
parked outside a Stuffer Shack with Lone Star Markings :)


I reckon this would be a special purpose record breaking car as opposed to
a useful running vehicle, similar to the Johnny Player special in R3
The idea about the police markings is good though, but not for this
vehicle.



>
> The Thrust was designed and built for one purpose... make it's
> creators famous. I would gladdly allow this car with the NOS tuned down
> some. Otherwise, no dice.
>

The top speed of this thing is, with NOS, around 400 m/s, right?
IRC, the speed of sound is 330ish m/s? So this baby gets to about
mach 1.2

When would you find a stretch of road long enough and clear enough
to do that? Utah salt flats excepted :) You could argue the
Interstates I guess they're pretty straight.

A little math, assuming 4 successes on a decceleration test every turn

Turn 1 1207m
Turn 2 1019m
Turn 3 831m
Turn 4 643m
Turn 5 455m (below speed rating)

So in 4 turns (12 seconds) you've travelled 3.7 km. And thats trying
to slow down. With no decceleration attempt, you'd travel 14.127km in
51 sec before reaching a reasonable speed. If you call 455 a
reasonable speed. I guess with clear roads you could do it. You'd
possible even outrun missiles, as most have a speed of 1000m/turn (IRC).

So it'd be great for cross country journeys. Suicide anywere else.
IMHO :)

> I'm reminded of a guy with an Impala, a solid fuel rocket, a dream,
> and a cliff face....

LOL! How so strangly appropriate :)


--
Wavy Davy (who shares wins)
...One thing that makes me believe in UFOs is, sometimes I lose stuff.
Message no. 9
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Damion Milliken)
Subject: Built for SPEED
Date: Thu Jul 12 10:40:01 2001
Wavy Davy writes:

> When would you find a stretch of road long enough and clear enough
> to do that? Utah salt flats excepted :) You could argue the
> Interstates I guess they're pretty straight.

I've had one such incident in the games I run. A rigger player of mine has a
limo with a rather unconventional pressurised fuel-oxidant gas mixture
powered engine (and not much passenger space). One of the other team members
has a nemesis with a WANKER mobile (I'll post the stats if anyone's
interested, but its almost the gasoline powered version of the SPEED vehicle
we're talking about here).

Now, at the end of an unmentioned Harlequin module, the runners end up at an
airport in Peru. The rigger character had just caught up with the other
character's nemesis, who had been tracking him to try and waste him. The two
of them show up at the airport in their hotted up speed mobiles, and a 400
km/h vehicle chase around the airport with spirits and lead flying between
vehicles ensures. Airports make great racing tracks...

--
Damion Milliken University of Wollongong
Unofficial Shadowrun Guru E-mail: dam01@***.edu.au
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Message no. 10
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Steve Collins)
Subject: Built for SPEED
Date: Thu Jul 12 11:10:01 2001
On 7/11/01 8:11 pm, Zebulin Magby said:

>Something for y'all to look at, and pick apart...
>

}}Snip most of the cars stats{{
>Speed: 483 (1207*) *NOTE: Speed with NOS Boost
}}Snip most of the cars stats{{

>So, whaddya think? (Yes, that customization level was rolled on 6d6 with a
>final target number of 14. I rolled a 15. :)
>
>I didn't add turbo-charging, but I didn't really think it was necessary.
>Speaking of which, anyone else think a car should have to make a stress test
>when you kick in the NOS?
>
>Zebulin
>


I'd say it equals deathtrap. For the moment lets ignore aerodynamics and
the fact that at that speed the car would likely become a flying wing for
a few seconds and that the smallest bump in the road could rip the
suspension off and that it's turning radius would be measured in miles.
Lets just consider the acceleration.

Assume you are traveling at top speed when you hit the NOS, the rules say
you instantly accelerate to the listed top speed (in this case from 483
M/t to 1207 M/t). For the sake of argument and some realisim lets say it
takes a full turn for that to happen. That translates to 724 M/t
acceleration, assuming that a turn is about 3 seconds you're pulling 24.6
G's. Now the human body can survuve accelerations of over 20 G's for very
short times only and even then it leads to injuries but 24 G's for 3
seconds will almost certainly cause instant death and if not it will
certainly cause the driver to blackout for a period of time. Being
blacked out while driving at the speed of sound does not sound like a
survivable situation.

Even doubling the length of time in a Sr game turn only drops the
acceleration to 12.3 G's which will probably not kill the driver but
almost certainly cause him to blackout.

Finally I think the last problem is that you need a jet propulsion system
to propel a car past the sound barrier because the friction of the tires
on the road can never be strong enough to overcome the wind resistance as
you start getting close to that barrier meaning that no matter how
powerful your engine you will reach a point where applying any more of it
will cause the wheels to slip on the road rather than accelerating you.
So this car is just an example of a hole in the rules that could never be
duplicated in real life regardless of the level of tech put into it.


Steve
Message no. 11
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Nephyte)
Subject: Built for SPEED
Date: Thu Jul 12 13:30:01 2001
http://www.so-calspeedshop.com/nos/tech/qanda.html

That is just some more information about a NOS system. I think you will have
a modified view of your exact speeds once you have.
Message no. 12
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Nephyte)
Subject: Built for SPEED
Date: Thu Jul 12 14:15:00 2001
The only real problem I have with the whole vehicle is the NOS boost ...

NOS does not provide that much boost when you use it. It entirely depends on
the amount of NOS you are using, engine, etc etc ..

I would suggest reading up a lot more on NOS, and other speed boosters to
see what they can do for a car.
Message no. 13
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Xerxes)
Subject: Built for SPEED
Date: Thu Jul 12 18:25:01 2001
> Something for y'all to look at, and pick apart...
>
>

<snip very nice car>

> So, whaddya think? (Yes, that customization level was rolled on 6d6 with a
> final target number of 14. I rolled a 15. :)
>
> I didn't add turbo-charging, but I didn't really think it was necessary.
> Speaking of which, anyone else think a car should have to make a stress test
> when you kick in the NOS?
>
> Zebulin
>

Well this is where reality would kick in if would GM that game: IIRC it is
physically impossible to go faster than 700 kilometers an hour if your
propulsion
is based on traction. Somewhere around there, the drag from both tires and air
gets so big its not possible to generate enough traction to accelerate. There
also
is the problem of tires. The normal rubber type will blow up if you go over 400
to 500 Km/H, so you'll need to use magnesium tires to go faster.

This thing may go 1200

http://www.thrustssc.com

And due to the laws of nature, cars that go that fast will keep looking like
that
for a while.

The amazing thing about your car is how you managed to roll 4 sixes out of
6 dice, and then 2 sixes out of four in the second roll. Those are rolls that
kill dragons. The odds on 2 12+ rolls among 6 dice are less than 2%.
Other than that it would be a beautiful attempt at rules abuse.

Xerxes
Message no. 14
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Zebulin Magby)
Subject: Built for SPEED
Date: Thu Jul 12 21:30:01 2001
"Steve Collins" <einan@*********.net> wrote:

>
> will cause the wheels to slip on the road rather than accelerating you.
> So this car is just an example of a hole in the rules that could never be
> duplicated in real life regardless of the level of tech put into it.
>
>
> Steve
>

That's exactly my point, pointing out a hole in the rules, that someone
should look at in the errata.

"Nephyte" <Nephyte@****.com> wrote:


> The only real problem I have with the whole vehicle is the NOS boost ...
>
> NOS does not provide that much boost when you use it. It entirely depends
on
> the amount of NOS you are using, engine, etc etc ..
>
> I would suggest reading up a lot more on NOS, and other speed boosters to
> see what they can do for a car.
>
>

Actually, I don't know all that much about NOS, but I didn't think that the
rules were right for it. That's another reason I put this together.

So then...we have a car that most sane people wouldn't allow in their game
(I wouldn't allow a player of mine to drive this...much). We have a glaring
reason to take a peek at the rules for NOS, Engine Customization (although I
think this is more of an extreme...but I just watched a friend roll a 21 on
6d6 for his customization roll....UGH), and the fact that unless it was
purpose built to do so, this car shouldn't be able to break the speed of
sound.

I think, out of all of this, the NOS is the worst...the gain is too much,
especially on a "tweaked" car.

Zebulin


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Message no. 15
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Zebulin Magby)
Subject: Built for SPEED
Date: Thu Jul 12 22:45:01 2001
"Xerxes" <a.j.denhollander@*******.utwente.nl> wrote:
>
> The amazing thing about your car is how you managed to roll 4 sixes out of
> 6 dice, and then 2 sixes out of four in the second roll. Those are rolls
that
> kill dragons. The odds on 2 12+ rolls among 6 dice are less than 2%.
> Other than that it would be a beautiful attempt at rules abuse.
>
> Xerxes
>

Thank you. [: I've seen worse, though. I'm sure we all have. The single best
die roll I've ever seen, though was something like a 41. Awwww, yeah.....


Zebulin


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