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Message no. 1
From: Jack Rogers Jack.Rogers@******.net
Subject: Bumper fun post with adept powers & questions
Date: Tue, 06 Apr 1999 11:21:01 +0100
Hi,

have been lurking for a while, (jheeze you guys & gals over 3000 post in
such a short time ..) and enough with the t-shirt already :-)

and after I read about 3 seperate post going on about physads ( and the
nepharious sammie vs phys ad nearly rearing its ugly head)

I thought that I should mention that in the companion (second ed
version)

build points can by force points on a 1:2 scale ... nothing new I hear
you say

my query is though that the physad get force points equal to his magic
rating ... these he spends to get his power

whats to stop a physad from spending (say) another 3 build points and
getting another 6 points worth of physad powers ?

" THE GM " you say ..

indeed, but I ( as a LONG time GM of the world) see no reason to _NOT_
allow the player to do such a thing ( now we know that physads can buy
powers for karma points) and I'd recon that another 6 points of magic
isn't so bad especially if supervised by the gm ( place some limits like
no more that an aditional 6 die on a stat or skill).

well I liked the idea any way, next in my bumber fun list

physad powers that I ( and friends have used )

reach negation

1.5/3/4.5 point power

effect : The power allow the physad the negate the bonuses the opponent
my gain from additional reach it does not bestow reach simply negate the
opponents advantage ( the adept is capable of working within the
opponents reach "knowing" the way in which his opponents weapon strikes
and fighting around it )

this will not give additional reach only negate the opponents !!

each level negates one level of reach

this power works for both armed and unarmed combat combat rolls


Advanced Distance Strike

2/4/6 point power

this power bestows the effects of reach on the adept, be it the ability
of the adept to elongate his limbs (ala street fighter) or simply a
mystic advantage. This ability lets them work around the opponents
advantage, dancing & striking when the opponents move too close and into
there "circle of conflict"

each level is a +1 bonus to reach with full effect

this power works on unarmed combat combat rolls OR armed combat rolls
NOT both.
it may be purchaced for both though

Regeneration

4 points

as critter power ( we found that it was too easy explainable as to why
this power should be available to adepts, there are too many good
reasons just think for a while and you'll come up with two ) but I would
definaty suggest that the power be used under gm autherisation

Thirdly ...

vampire player characters.. we've now got ghouls ( & there essence
drain power )
and shapeshifters (with regeneration) any one of you out there likely to
DISALOW plays from having one ? (having now pretty much got all the
rules for them now)

as ever straw doll to your hearts content I'd be pleased just to be
noticed :-)

Finishing off

I'm going to be testing chassis costs for "heavy gear" rigger suits in a
game soon results to follow let me know if your interested in knowing
what I came up with

& I'll be running a street level game have there been any changes in how
the 3rd ed companion suggest it be run as opposed to the 2nd ed
companion ( from whats been said it's not been included but I'm just
checking to make sure)

Jack Rogers

"sig currently in the wash.. was starting to get dirty from use"

Jack.Rogers@******.net
Message no. 2
From: Jack Rogers Jack.Rogers@******.net
Subject: Bumper fun post with adept powers & questions
Date: Tue, 06 Apr 1999 12:07:20 +0100
Hunter wrote:
>
> Hi, Jack. Welcome to the insane assylum.

thanks man :) love the wall paper here


> ********************
> Griffin Industries
> http://www.angelfire.com/oh2/Griffin/index.html
>
> "If you just want to kill things, play D&D."

thanks for the site _V_ interesting

you don't know how long it's taken me to find somthing like this

I'll try to reply personally to you about this stuff

Jack
Message no. 3
From: Jack Rogers Jack.Rogers@******.net
Subject: Bumper fun post with adept powers & questions
Date: Tue, 06 Apr 1999 15:05:33 +0100
Mark A Shieh wrote:
>
> dghost@****.com writes:
> > On Sun, 11 Apr 1999 22:57:50 EDT Schizi@***.com writes:
> > >In a message dated 4/11/99 7:11:28 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
> > dghost@****.com
> > >writes:
> > <SNIP>
> > >>This has merit. It costs 20 karma to buy a *POWER* point (Not a Force
> > >>point or, in SR3, a SPELL point.) in SR3. According to SRCo (Second
> > >>Edition), 1 Build Point is worth 10 karma points. So ... Why not? For
> > >>every 2 Build Points spent at character creation, a Physical Adept
> > >>receives an extra Power point.
<snip>
> IIRC, this means that a million nuyen gets you 2 more points
> of adept powers but leaves you completely broke, if you allow the
> house? rule of allowing characters to spend force points on physad
> powers instead of only spells, foci, and elementals. IMHO, half a
> million is a reasonble amount of money for the 7th point of physad
> powers.
>
> Mark

Not directing this at any one personally you understand, but I think
that there are some SR gms that are TOO F*****g stingy, I like what dg
host says , but some people seem a bit tight ( I mean realy, who the
F**K has ever had a 10 level initiate adept capable of getting the
regeneration power that was suggested...)

even if it's just to 20 karma per point thats 200 flippin karma !!

sorry for the **'s but this realy gets my goat when you throw such
rediculus prices around.

your better off saying that you just can't have the power (I'd feel like
I was cheating the players if I done that)

maybe you play karma rich games though.. that wouldn't be so bad then,

oh, I placed the prices high for the reach things because I felt that
they were very powerful abilitys (and within reach of experianced
characters) but I like the idea of lowering the cost for the lower and
raising the cost for higher levels of the power .. makes a lot of sence
(with my 20/20 hind sight goggles on :) thanks to the guy/gal who said
that.

Jack Rogers
Message no. 4
From: Jack Rogers Jack.Rogers@******.net
Subject: Bumper fun post with adept powers & questions
Date: Tue, 06 Apr 1999 15:23:43 +0100
dghost@****.com wrote:
>
> On Tue, 06 Apr 1999 11:21:01 +0100 Jack Rogers <Jack.Rogers@******.net>
> writes:
> >Hi,
>
> Hello. You seem to have a problem with email programs word wrap
> settings. See if you can set Mozilla to wrap at 72 to 80 characters (72
> is reccomended.).

ah, thats netscape navigator 3.0 I'm upgrading soon so it'll go away in
a while, sorry for any inconveniancein the mean time

> >and after I read about 3 seperate post going on about physads ( and the
> >nepharious sammie vs phys ad nearly rearing its ugly head)
> >I thought that I should mention that in the companion (second ed
> version)
> >build points can by force points on a 1:2 scale ... nothing new I hear
> >you say
>
> You realize that even in Second Edition, a Physical Adept's Magic Points
> are NOT Force Points, right?
>
> >my query is though that the physad get force points equal to his magic
> >rating ... these he spends to get his power
> >whats to stop a physad from spending (say) another 3 build points and
> >getting another 6 points worth of physad powers ?
>
> Nononononono ... NO! A Physical Adept uses his MAGIC points to buy powers
> and can use the Force points (equal to his Magic rating) to bond Foci.

well as it read in the SRc it didn't say that you couldn't specificly
not do it, and they are "advanced rules" so ( and they are stated to be
force points that you spend to get the powes in the SRc book )

> >" THE GM " you say ..
> >
> >indeed, but I ( as a LONG time GM of the world) see no reason to _NOT_
> >allow the player to do such a thing ( now we know that physads can buy
> >powers for karma points) and I'd recon that another 6 points of magic
> >isn't so bad especially if supervised by the gm ( place some limits like
> >no more that an aditional 6 die on a stat or skill).
>
> This has merit. It costs 20 karma to buy a *POWER* point (Not a Force
> point or, in SR3, a SPELL point.) in SR3. According to SRCo (Second
> Edition), 1 Build Point is worth 10 karma points. So ... Why not? For
> every 2 Build Points spent at character creation, a Physical Adept
> receives an extra Power point.

I like this, think I'd probably limit it to spending 10 points in this
way, things start getting too poky after that

> >well I liked the idea any way, next in my bumber fun list
> >physad powers that I ( and friends have used )
> >
> >reach negation
> >
> >1.5/3/4.5 point power
> >
> >effect : The power allow the physad the negate the bonuses the opponent
> >my gain from additional reach it does not bestow reach simply negate the
> >opponents advantage ( the adept is capable of working within the
> >opponents reach "knowing" the way in which his opponents weapon strikes
> >and fighting around it )
> >this will not give additional reach only negate the opponents !!
> >each level negates one level of reach
> >this power works for both armed and unarmed combat combat rolls
>
> I would make this cheaper (say 1/2/3) with the stipulation that it must
> be purchased separately for whether the PhysAd is Armed or Unarmed.

sounds good ( time to rewrite the house rules I think :)

> >Advanced Distance Strike
> >
> >2/4/6 point power
> >
> >this power bestows the effects of reach on the adept, be it the ability
> >of the adept to elongate his limbs (ala street fighter) or simply a
> >mystic advantage. This ability lets them work around the opponents
> >advantage, dancing & striking when the opponents move too close and into
> >there "circle of conflict"
> >each level is a +1 bonus to reach with full effect
> >this power works on unarmed combat combat rolls OR armed combat rolls
> NOT both.
> >it may be purchaced for both though
>
> This is a bit pricey. I would say something like 1/2/4

well we though that it was a powerfull agvantage ( and wanted to stop
the ubermonstar players a little) a good call though I think for more
trusting groups

> >Regeneration
> >
> >4 points
> >
> >as critter power ( we found that it was too easy explainable as to why
> >this power should be available to adepts, there are too many good
> >reasons just think for a while and you'll come up with two ) but I would
> >definaty suggest that the power be used under gm autherisation
>
> This is WAY too cheap. For the straight critter power, the cost
> (according to Physical Adept Handybook v5 as reprinted from an article in
> White Wolf, I think.) is 10 points. I would not allow it for anything
> less.

huh ? doesn't make you imune to damage & you can still die (an in my
experiance you always seem to roll the one when you don't want it too)

and it's just eaten up 2 thirds of your starting points ( and
considering the older rules 6 points was oftern the most you ever got

> >Thirdly ...
> >
> >vampire player characters.. we've now got ghouls ( & there essence
> >drain power )
>
> What Essence Drain??? Since when do Ghouls drain Essence?

whoops sorry though they drained essence when that fed ?

thats what I picked up from a friend ( don't tend to use ghouls you
see)

> >and shapeshifters (with regeneration) any one of you out there likely to
> >DISALOW plays from having one ? (having now pretty much got all the
> >rules for them now)
>
> Yes. I would disallow them. I would allow them too. It depends on the
> game I'm running at the time.

well, I agree ( can't have em' running round everywhere now can you )

> >as ever straw doll to your hearts content I'd be pleased just to be
> >noticed :-)
> <SNIP>
>
> What?

never heard the term "straw dolling an idea" ?

> --
> D. Ghost

thanks for the responce

Jack Rogers

Jack.Rogers@******.net
Message no. 5
From: Hunter griffinhq@****.com
Subject: Bumper fun post with adept powers & questions
Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 20:23:33 -0700
Hi, Jack. Welcome to the insane assylum.

If you mean power armor type suits, I've got a list of several already
on my website. Labors as well if you want them.

*************************************************************************
********************
Griffin Industries
http://www.angelfire.com/oh2/Griffin/index.html

"If you just want to kill things, play D&D."

___________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html
or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
Message no. 6
From: dghost@****.com dghost@****.com
Subject: Bumper fun post with adept powers & questions
Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 20:57:09 -0500
On Tue, 06 Apr 1999 11:21:01 +0100 Jack Rogers <Jack.Rogers@******.net>
writes:
>Hi,

Hello. You seem to have a problem with email programs word wrap
settings. See if you can set Mozilla to wrap at 72 to 80 characters (72
is reccomended.).

>and after I read about 3 seperate post going on about physads ( and the
>nepharious sammie vs phys ad nearly rearing its ugly head)
>I thought that I should mention that in the companion (second ed
version)
>build points can by force points on a 1:2 scale ... nothing new I hear
>you say

You realize that even in Second Edition, a Physical Adept's Magic Points
are NOT Force Points, right?

>my query is though that the physad get force points equal to his magic
>rating ... these he spends to get his power
>whats to stop a physad from spending (say) another 3 build points and
>getting another 6 points worth of physad powers ?

Nononononono ... NO! A Physical Adept uses his MAGIC points to buy powers
and can use the Force points (equal to his Magic rating) to bond Foci.

>" THE GM " you say ..
>
>indeed, but I ( as a LONG time GM of the world) see no reason to _NOT_
>allow the player to do such a thing ( now we know that physads can buy
>powers for karma points) and I'd recon that another 6 points of magic
>isn't so bad especially if supervised by the gm ( place some limits like
>no more that an aditional 6 die on a stat or skill).

This has merit. It costs 20 karma to buy a *POWER* point (Not a Force
point or, in SR3, a SPELL point.) in SR3. According to SRCo (Second
Edition), 1 Build Point is worth 10 karma points. So ... Why not? For
every 2 Build Points spent at character creation, a Physical Adept
receives an extra Power point.

>well I liked the idea any way, next in my bumber fun list
>physad powers that I ( and friends have used )
>
>reach negation
>
>1.5/3/4.5 point power
>
>effect : The power allow the physad the negate the bonuses the opponent
>my gain from additional reach it does not bestow reach simply negate the
>opponents advantage ( the adept is capable of working within the
>opponents reach "knowing" the way in which his opponents weapon strikes
>and fighting around it )
>this will not give additional reach only negate the opponents !!
>each level negates one level of reach
>this power works for both armed and unarmed combat combat rolls

I would make this cheaper (say 1/2/3) with the stipulation that it must
be purchased separately for whether the PhysAd is Armed or Unarmed.

>Advanced Distance Strike
>
>2/4/6 point power
>
>this power bestows the effects of reach on the adept, be it the ability
>of the adept to elongate his limbs (ala street fighter) or simply a
>mystic advantage. This ability lets them work around the opponents
>advantage, dancing & striking when the opponents move too close and into
>there "circle of conflict"
>each level is a +1 bonus to reach with full effect
>this power works on unarmed combat combat rolls OR armed combat rolls
NOT both.
>it may be purchaced for both though

This is a bit pricey. I would say something like 1/2/4

>Regeneration
>
>4 points
>
>as critter power ( we found that it was too easy explainable as to why
>this power should be available to adepts, there are too many good
>reasons just think for a while and you'll come up with two ) but I would
>definaty suggest that the power be used under gm autherisation

This is WAY too cheap. For the straight critter power, the cost
(according to Physical Adept Handybook v5 as reprinted from an article in
White Wolf, I think.) is 10 points. I would not allow it for anything
less.

>Thirdly ...
>
>vampire player characters.. we've now got ghouls ( & there essence
>drain power )

What Essence Drain??? Since when do Ghouls drain Essence?

>and shapeshifters (with regeneration) any one of you out there likely to
>DISALOW plays from having one ? (having now pretty much got all the
>rules for them now)

Yes. I would disallow them. I would allow them too. It depends on the
game I'm running at the time.

>as ever straw doll to your hearts content I'd be pleased just to be
>noticed :-)
<SNIP>

What?

--
D. Ghost
(aka Pixel)
WARNING: Virus found: Win.com
Disinfect? (Y/N)

___________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html
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Message no. 7
From: Schizi@***.com Schizi@***.com
Subject: Bumper fun post with adept powers & questions
Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 22:57:50 EDT
In a message dated 4/11/99 7:11:28 PM Pacific Daylight Time, dghost@****.com
writes:

> >indeed, but I ( as a LONG time GM of the world) see no reason to _NOT_
> >allow the player to do such a thing ( now we know that physads can buy
> >powers for karma points) and I'd recon that another 6 points of magic
> >isn't so bad especially if supervised by the gm ( place some limits like
> >no more that an aditional 6 die on a stat or skill).
>
> This has merit. It costs 20 karma to buy a *POWER* point (Not a Force
> point or, in SR3, a SPELL point.) in SR3. According to SRCo (Second
> Edition), 1 Build Point is worth 10 karma points. So ... Why not? For
> every 2 Build Points spent at character creation, a Physical Adept
> receives an extra Power point.

Um, not to judge intent or individual campaigns, but IMO, and IMC, if you
bought "force points" they would equal karma points (just like when bonding
foci.)
It is mentioned that you might allow players to initiate or whatnot, but
they would have to spend force points = to karma cost of init or that 20
points for a sngle "power point" not a few points for the power point.
If an adept can start with all those points, he could start with a whole
lotta powers, which is not (again IMO) what was intended there.
I think they changed it (the terminology involved) so that players did not
think they were actually "spending" magic points. But I think they may have
caused more problems than solved with that :-)
Message no. 8
From: dghost@****.com dghost@****.com
Subject: Bumper fun post with adept powers & questions
Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 01:00:21 -0500
On Sun, 11 Apr 1999 22:57:50 EDT Schizi@***.com writes:
>In a message dated 4/11/99 7:11:28 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
dghost@****.com
>writes:
<SNIP>
>>This has merit. It costs 20 karma to buy a *POWER* point (Not a Force
>>point or, in SR3, a SPELL point.) in SR3. According to SRCo (Second
>>Edition), 1 Build Point is worth 10 karma points. So ... Why not? For
>>every 2 Build Points spent at character creation, a Physical Adept
>>receives an extra Power point.

>Um, not to judge intent or individual campaigns, but IMO, and IMC, if
you
>bought "force points" they would equal karma points (just like when
bonding
>foci.)
> It is mentioned that you might allow players to initiate or whatnot,
but
>they would have to spend force points = to karma cost of init or that 20

>points for a sngle "power point" not a few points for the power point.
> If an adept can start with all those points, he could start with a
whole
>lotta powers, which is not (again IMO) what was intended there.
> I think they changed it (the terminology involved) so that players did
not
>think they were actually "spending" magic points. But I think they may
have
>caused more problems than solved with that :-)

Uhm ... I'm not sure what you mean. It's hard to tell if you
misunderstood me or what. I have SRCo, Second Edition and will be
picking up Third Edition when I get the chance. This means I'm
(currently) adapting the Second Edition companion (and a few other books)
to a Third Edition game using the published books (at least the ones I
have) and what I've heard on list...

Okay, in SR2.5:
Per SRCo (2nd Edition, page 21), you trade Karma for Force points. In
the SRco, Third Edition, there is no system for buying extra Spell points
using Build points so we'll use the rates for selling them: 1 Build point
= 5 Spell points. 20 karma for purchasing a power point equals 20 Spell
points which equals 4 Build points. So my estimate of 2 build points per
extra power point results in a discount of 50% ... Hmmm ... unless things
have changed in theird edition, a slight discount was given to skills and
attributes were grossly overpriced. Well, do what you will 20 Spell
points or 4 (or more or less) build points ... it's up to you.

--
D. Ghost
(aka Pixel)
WARNING: Virus found: Win.com
Disinfect? (Y/N)

___________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html
or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
Message no. 9
From: Kelson Kelson@****.net
Subject: Bumper fun post with adept powers & questions
Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 06:59:57 -0500
> From: dghost@****.com
> Date: Monday, April 12, 1999 1:00 AM

<Snip>

> Okay, in SR2.5:
> Per SRCo (2nd Edition, page 21), you trade Karma for Force points. In
> the SRco, Third Edition, there is no system for buying extra Spell points
> using Build points so we'll use the rates for selling them: 1 Build point
> = 5 Spell points. 20 karma for purchasing a power point equals 20 Spell
> points which equals 4 Build points. So my estimate of 2 build points per
> extra power point results in a discount of 50% ... Hmmm ... unless things
> have changed in theird edition, a slight discount was given to skills and
> attributes were grossly overpriced. Well, do what you will 20 Spell
> points or 4 (or more or less) build points ... it's up to you.

Actually, in the SR2 Companion, 1 build point = 2 spell points, not 5. I
dunno about 3rd edition, but you can see how your math would vary
dramatically should 2 be substituted for 5. I think that 4 build points is
too cheap for allowing a PhysAd to start with another magic point worth of
abilities. It would be far too easy to spend 8 points and get 2 extra
points in powers to start with.

All just IMO, of course. :)

> --
> D. Ghost

Justin
Message no. 10
From: Mark A Shieh SHODAN+@***.EDU
Subject: Bumper fun post with adept powers & questions
Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 16:50:27 -0400 (EDT)
dghost@****.com writes:
> On Sun, 11 Apr 1999 22:57:50 EDT Schizi@***.com writes:
> >In a message dated 4/11/99 7:11:28 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
> dghost@****.com
> >writes:
> <SNIP>
> >>This has merit. It costs 20 karma to buy a *POWER* point (Not a Force
> >>point or, in SR3, a SPELL point.) in SR3. According to SRCo (Second
> >>Edition), 1 Build Point is worth 10 karma points. So ... Why not? For
> >>every 2 Build Points spent at character creation, a Physical Adept
> >>receives an extra Power point.

[snip]

> Uhm ... I'm not sure what you mean. It's hard to tell if you
> misunderstood me or what. I have SRCo, Second Edition and will be
> picking up Third Edition when I get the chance. This means I'm
> (currently) adapting the Second Edition companion (and a few other books)
> to a Third Edition game using the published books (at least the ones I
> have) and what I've heard on list...
>
> Okay, in SR2.5:
> Per SRCo (2nd Edition, page 21), you trade Karma for Force points. In
> the SRco, Third Edition, there is no system for buying extra Spell points
> using Build points so we'll use the rates for selling them: 1 Build point
> = 5 Spell points. 20 karma for purchasing a power point equals 20 Spell
> points which equals 4 Build points.

If this were the case, there would be all sorts of problems.
The only mechanism for buying additional Force Points under SR3 point
based creation is the same as in SR3. Buy yourself 25000Y and trade
them in for a FP.

IIRC, this means that a million nuyen gets you 2 more points
of adept powers but leaves you completely broke, if you allow the
house? rule of allowing characters to spend force points on physad
powers instead of only spells, foci, and elementals. IMHO, half a
million is a reasonble amount of money for the 7th point of physad
powers.

Mark
Message no. 11
From: nocturnal@*******.net nocturnal@*******.net
Subject: Bumper fun post with adept powers & questions
Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 15:59:58 -0500
<snip hard-to-quote thing about physad powers>

I'm a second edition fan; I can't be convinced to go 3rd after the
changes I've seen... but a physad CAN get more points toward his powers,
but that's only through initiation.

Oh, and did you say that thru the SR2 Companion, one BP = 10 karma?

Nocturnal
Message no. 12
From: Schizi@***.com Schizi@***.com
Subject: Bumper fun post with adept powers & questions
Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 20:14:25 EDT
In a message dated 4/11/99 11:16:30 PM Pacific Daylight Time, dghost@****.com
writes:

> Okay, in SR2.5:
> Per SRCo (2nd Edition, page 21), you trade Karma for Force points. In
> the SRco, Third Edition, there is no system for buying extra Spell points
> using Build points so we'll use the rates for selling them: 1 Build point
> = 5 Spell points. 20 karma for purchasing a power point equals 20 Spell
> points which equals 4 Build points. So my estimate of 2 build points per
> extra power point results in a discount of 50% ... Hmmm ... unless things
> have changed in theird edition, a slight discount was given to skills and
> attributes were grossly overpriced. Well, do what you will 20 Spell
> points or 4 (or more or less) build points ... it's up to you.

well, I have not gotten the new SR companion, but at was mentioned by others.
IMO you use either the 25,000 per force point, or maybe use the SR2
companions 2 force for 1build point. (20 force points get you 1 Power point)
Using 2 build points for 1 power point would make the person a little too
strong at the start, IMO. And what would be the limit, for 10 build points,
you get 5 more Power Power points (nearly doubling your starting stats)
How much money would 10 build points buy you?

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