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Message no. 1
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@****.ORG>
Subject: Re: C-12 at 4m
Date: Wed, 12 Feb 1997 06:54:15 -0700
Simon T. Sailer wrote:
|
| Now to the really interesting things: I do know that plastic
| explosives have a small blast radius, compared to others. But I just
| cant imagine that 9kg of C-12(and C-12 is REALLY strong stuff!) cant
| harm you if you at a distance of 4m. Maybe anyone out there has some
| experiences with real plastic explosives.
| If so, please help me with your cunning advice...;)

Huh? 9kg of C-12 would have a damage code of 32D(!) at a
distance of 4m. That's more than enough to take out just
about any character.

-David
--
/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\ dbuehrer@****.org /^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\
"His thoughts tumbled in his head, making and breaking
alliances like underpants in a dryer without Cling Free."
~~~http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm~~~~
Message no. 2
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: C-12 at 4m
Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 12:06:38 +0100
David Buehrer said on 6:54/12 Feb 97...

> Huh? 9kg of C-12 would have a damage code of 32D(!) at a
> distance of 4m. That's more than enough to take out just
> about any character.

To clear this up ONCE AND FOR ALL (yeah, right...): under SRII rules
(page 242), 9 kg of C12 does 36D at 0 meters range, then -12 per meter. At
4 meters it's dropped to nothing...

David is using a house rule (or a confused rule :) in which the Power
Level drops by -1 per meter.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Watching re-runs on my TV.
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

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Message no. 3
From: Steve Collins <steve_collins@********.ALEWIFE.KODAK.COM>
Subject: Re: C-12 at 4m
Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 10:45:06 U
Mail*Link® SMTP RE>>C-12 at 4m

>> Huh? 9kg of C-12 would have a damage code of 32D(!) at a
>> distance of 4m. That's more than enough to take out just
>> about any character.
>
>To clear this up ONCE AND FOR ALL (yeah, right...): under SRII rules
>(page 242), 9 kg of C12 does 36D at 0 meters range, then -12 per meter. =
At
>4 meters it's dropped to nothing...

This makes no sense whatsoever (I do believe you that this the rule btw) =
9Kg of C-4 is enough to take down a small house and they say that at 4M, =
basically on the other side of an average room, it causes no damage. FASA =
needs to seriously do some study of the real effects of explosives and =
adjust the rules for them accordingly because this is ridiculously low. 9 =
Kg of C-12 should be able to kill out to about 10 to 15 M without =
fragmentation effects, if you have a box of nails to provide this then it =
should be potentially deadly out to 25 M.
Message no. 4
From: "Paul J. Adam" <shadowrn@********.DEMON.CO.UK>
Subject: Re: C-12 at 4m
Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 17:38:36 +0000
In message <n1356291457.4696@********>, Steve Collins <steve_collins@***
ERVER.ALEWIFE.KODAK.COM> writes
>9 Kg of C-12 should be able to
>kill out to about 10 to 15 M without fragmentation effects, if you have a box of
>nails to provide this then it should be potentially deadly out to 25 M.

'Scuse me, but rather less than 1kg of C-4 is lethal out to 50m or more,
when packaged behind some ball bearings in the form of a Claymore mine.

Plain explosive does drop off rapidly with distance: blast isn't
effective at any real range. You need fragmentation, meaning that
ironmongery to turn your C-12 into a nail bomb.


--
There are four kinds of homicide: felonious, excusable, justifiable and
praiseworthy...

Paul J. Adam paul@********.demon.co.uk
Message no. 5
From: "Arno R. Lehmann" <arlehma@***.NET>
Subject: Re: C-12 at 4m
Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 03:52:39 +0100
On Wed, 12 Feb 1997 06:54:15 -0700, David Buehrer wrote:

>Huh? 9kg of C-12 would have a damage code of 32D(!) at a
>distance of 4m. That's more than enough to take out just
>about any character.

Not with my rules. SR2 rulebook german ed. say, that the powerniveau
decreases by (level of explosive) ever meter. C12 is level 12, so to
get a 32D at 4 m distance you need base PN 80, that means (80/12)^2 kg,
6,5^2 is about 40kg...

--
Arno
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Message no. 6
From: Droopy <droopy@*******.NB.NET>
Subject: Re: C-12 at 4m
Date: Fri, 14 Feb 1997 08:35:30 +0000
> From: "Paul J. Adam" <shadowrn@********.DEMON.CO.UK>
> Subject: Re: C-12 at 4m

> >9 Kg of C-12 should be able to
> >kill out to about 10 to 15 M without fragmentation effects, if you have a box of
> >nails to provide this then it should be potentially deadly out to 25 M.
>
> 'Scuse me, but rather less than 1kg of C-4 is lethal out to 50m or more,
> when packaged behind some ball bearings in the form of a Claymore mine.

Well, you do realise that you are not talking about the same thing,
right? I have seen nothing that equates SR explosive with RL except
the words "commercial" and "military." Within those two boundries
are an incredible array of explosives. I'm not saying that your
point isn't more or less valid, just that it may not have any bearing
on SR.

> Plain explosive does drop off rapidly with distance: blast isn't
> effective at any real range. You need fragmentation, meaning that
> ironmongery to turn your C-12 into a nail bomb.

Depends on the blast. Greater damage can be done from a distance
than if the explosive is against the target. There is more involved
than just weight and what the charge is made of.


--Droopy
droopy@**.net
Message no. 7
From: Steve Collins <steve_collins@********.ALEWIFE.KODAK.COM>
Subject: Re: C-12 at 4m
Date: Fri, 14 Feb 1997 10:27:28 U
Mail*Link® SMTP RE>>C-12 at 4m

>>9 Kg of C-12 should be able to
>>kill out to about 10 to 15 M without fragmentation effects, if you have =
a box >>of nails to provide this then it should be potentially deadly out =
to 25 M.
>
>'Scuse me, but rather less than 1kg of C-4 is lethal out to 50m or more,
>when packaged behind some ball bearings in the form of a Claymore mine.
>
>Plain explosive does drop off rapidly with distance: blast isn't
>effective at any real range. You need fragmentation, meaning that
>ironmongery to turn your C-12 into a nail bomb.

I realize that but a Claymore is more or less directional (slightly less =
than a
180 by 90 deg field of fire. I was thinking of an omnidirectional blast =
which
will have about 1/4 the effect of a similarly sized Claymore style =
explosive
because it wil spread out in all directions including up and away from the =

target (same explosive force same number of fragments 4x the volume). I =
could
figure out exactly what the rate of decrease in force should be for any =
given
quantity of explosive if anyone out there knew how much force 1Kg of C-4 =
packed.
It should be something like 1/2*X^3 where X is some the distance from the =
center
of the blast (this assumes the blast happens against a surface My Calculus =

probably isn't up to handling the effects of an airburst near a surface).


Steve
Message no. 8
From: James Paulsen <lowfyr@***********.COM>
Subject: Re: C-12 at 4m
Date: Fri, 14 Feb 1997 11:19:37 -0600
Droopy wrote:
>
> > From: "Paul J. Adam" <shadowrn@********.DEMON.CO.UK>
> > Subject: Re: C-12 at 4m
>
> > Plain explosive does drop off rapidly with distance: blast isn't
> > effective at any real range. You need fragmentation, meaning that
> > ironmongery to turn your C-12 into a nail bomb.
>
> Depends on the blast. Greater damage can be done from a distance
> than if the explosive is against the target. There is more involved
> than just weight and what the charge is made of.
> I would have to agree with Droopy here. There are more bodily damaging
factors to an explosion that just fragmentation. Concussion alone can
gel organs, scramble brains, and break bones. Then, of course, when you
DO add fragmentation, that just mixes it all up :)

Jim
Message no. 9
From: Droopy <droopy@*******.NB.NET>
Subject: Re: C-12 at 4m
Date: Fri, 14 Feb 1997 20:44:07 +0000
> From: Steve Collins <steve_collins@********.ALEWIFE.KODAK.COM>
> Subject: Re: C-12 at 4m

> quantity of explosive if anyone out there knew how much force 1Kg of C-4 packed.
> It should be something like 1/2*X^3 where X is some the distance from the center
> of the blast (this assumes the blast happens against a surface My Calculus
> probably isn't up to handling the effects of an airburst near a surface).

RL C4 has a detonation velocity of 8,040 m/sec. Hope that helps


--Droopy
droopy@**.net
Message no. 10
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@****.ORG>
Subject: Re: C-12 at 4m
Date: Sat, 15 Feb 1997 12:02:09 -0700
Gurth wrote:
|
| David Buehrer said on 6:54/12 Feb 97...
|
| > Huh? 9kg of C-12 would have a damage code of 32D(!) at a
| > distance of 4m. That's more than enough to take out just
| > about any character.
|
| To clear this up ONCE AND FOR ALL (yeah, right...): under SRII rules
| (page 242), 9 kg of C12 does 36D at 0 meters range, then -12 per meter. At
| 4 meters it's dropped to nothing...
|
| David is using a house rule (or a confused rule :) in which the Power
| Level drops by -1 per meter.

<picks up main rule book and goes to page 242. reads
rule. references to blast effects. re-reads rule
again...>

DOH! I can't *believe* I missed that <hangs his head in shame>.

-David
--
/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\ dbuehrer@****.org /^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\/^\
"His thoughts tumbled in his head, making and breaking
alliances like underpants in a dryer without Cling Free."
~~~http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm~~~~

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