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Message no. 1
From: Kevin Roberts <kr23st00@****.NET>
Subject: CAF and Tir
Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 00:37:21 -0600
British Army. Why, who taught you your concept?

--
There are four kinds of homicide: felonious, excusable, justifiable and
praiseworthy...

Paul J. Adam paul@********.demon.co.uk
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 18:41:42 EST
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Ereskanti <Ereskanti@***.COM>
Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com)
Subject: Hoosier Hacker House (Re: Spells and Programming Utility Option
Effects)
Content-type: t
Message no. 2
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: CAF and Tir
Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 12:07:01 +0100
At 03:01 AM 1/6/98 +0000, Avenger wrote these timeless words:

>Yes. It doesn't exist.
>
>There is no Area51, what you see is a mirage. There was no UFO at
>Roswell (Quark took it back) There are no aliens. It's all mass
>illusion.
>
>Would we lie to you?
>
>The government can be trusted not to do this. The government is your
>friend. Trust in the government. The government knows what is best for
>you.
>
>(sorry, I couldn't help it)
>
Please look directly at this light...

Bull :]
--
Bull, aka Steven Ratkovich, aka Rak, aka Chaos, aka a lot of others! :]

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=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 06:27:34 GMT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Discussion <SHADOWRN@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: James Lindsay <jlindsay@******.CA>
Subject: Re: Sniper rifles
In-Reply-To: <34B0E017.8063E678@****.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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On Mon, 5 Jan 1998 07:28:55 -0600, s c rose wrote:

> Zixx wrote:
> >
> > On 3 Jan 98 at 12:46, Gurth wrote:
> >
> > > Zixx said on 20:50/ 2 Jan 98...
> > >
> > > > > I don't see why it should be impossible to make LP ammo into a
belt -- all
> > > > > you need are belt links that fit the cartridge cases. Now I grant
you that
> > > > > it'll be very unlikely you'll find those, since I know of no
pistol (RL or
> > > > > SR) that uses belted ammo, but it's nonetheless possible to make
such a
> > > > > belt.
> > > >
> > > > Guess you got that wrong.
> > >
> > > In what way am I "wrong" here? You can make any modern ammo into
a belt,
> > > given belt links of the right size.
>
> Well you have the problem of if you did it why? A weapon has to be
> designed to belt feed so why put together a belt of ammo that can't be
> used pistols almost if not always use a magizne of some sort either
> internal or external.

I believe the original question was related to ammunition, not weapon
design. It was never a question of "why would you bother" but "*could* it
be done". The correct answer is "yes". No fair changing the subject half
way through without ample warning.
Message no. 3
From: Matb <mbreton@**.NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Re: CAF and Tir
Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 23:52:10 -0800
This is highly unlikely. Ammunition is made today by "corporations" and
this hasn't stopped them from producing countless ammunition calibres.
That's capitalism, free enterprise, and the American Way.

> Who is to say that the corps that make the weapons didn't decide on one
> caliber and use it to the exclusion of all else.

Because one calibre *can't* do everything. You need a light rifle round
(5.56mm) for general carry (it's lighter than many other rifle cartri
Message no. 4
From: David Lightfinger <lightfinger@****.COM>
Subject: Re: CAF and Tir
Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 16:45:38 -0600
Zixx wrote:
/
/ On 4 Jan 98 at 22:59, Andy Gardner wrote:
/
/ > Ahar laddy, that's where you're wrong. (sorry, been reading
/ > cyberpirates)
/ > ALL combat spells, be they manabolt, powerbolt or hellblast, cook the
/ > target from the inside and bypass armour. This includes targets in
/ > the area of effect who aren't the original central target. That's
/ > one of the major differences between combat and manipulation spells
/ > like fireball and flamebomb.
/
/ Excuse me, but my Grimmy lists fireball as a combat spell, though it uses
/ elemental effects....

Fireball has a *residual* effect of elemental fire. But that's not
what causes the damage to the target. The spell attacks the target
internally/directly, as all combat spells do. As a Fireball spell
does this a small ammount of the energy of the spell is directed
toward creating the "fireball" effect. But it is by no means the
primary damage source.

I had to deal with this spell fairly early on in my SR game when a PC
tried to cast a fireball at two targets he knew where around a corner
(he couldn't see them). So he cast it at a nearby crate that he
could see, reasoning that they would be hit because they were in the
area of effect. But because fireball is a combat spell you have to
see your target to hit it, even with area effect spells, so the to
guys around the corner didn't take damage from the spell. They were,
however,
Message no. 5
From: Mon goose <landsquid@*******.COM>
Subject: Re: CAF and Tir
Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 23:30:48 PST
>Tir Tairngire was the one that attacked California, not the other way
>around. The date mentioned in the TT sourcebook ([page 30) is "early
>2036", nothing more.
>
>> What I want to know is what was the battle plan on each side. How
many
>> troops, Equiptment, Magic, and other items that were used in the
battle
>> on both sides.
>
>The Tir Tairngire sourcebook says it was "an entire armored division
>supported by infantry and limited air cover". The Tir forces included
>combat mages (makes sense), paranormal animals (I wonder how they use
>those on a battlefield), and (supposedly) at least two dragons.

FOF also notes that use of combat magic was minimal- the main use of
magic was the concealment of normal forces. Magic was probably also
crucial to intellegence. The paranormal critters might be useful for
both, given the right types with the right powers. Or, parnormals with
confusion/ fear could also have good effect- at least on opponents not
buttoned down in vehicles. Also, paranormals might not have been
noticed as military assets, thus able to infiltrate.

>
>> I also am interested in knowing what happened at "Creator Lake". I
hope that is spelled right.
>
>It's Crater Lake -- there's a crater (=hole in the ground) there, in
which a lake has formed.
>That's exactly what the writers leave open to the GM. There's only
>speculation in the TT sourcebook, and by reading that the GM can get
some ideas for adventures that revolve around the mysterious things the
Tir is doing at this lake.

Mike has a file on Crater Lake- FASA has had fixed ideas for it for a
while, but they are NOT revealing them. I know this because my best
friend just signed a non- disclosure agreement when he went to work for
them- and the bastards sticking to it!

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
Message no. 6
From: Ashlocke <woneal@*******.NET>
Subject: Re: CAF and Tir
Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 11:46:17 -0005
On 6 Jan 98 at 0:37, Kevin Roberts wrote:

> Hello there,
>
> I would like to know some info.
> As far as I understand it the Elf Nation TIR, north of Calf. was
> attacked in its history. I forget the date of the battle. What I want to
> know is what was the battle plan on each side. How many troops,
> Equiptment, Magic, and other items that were used in the battle on both
> sides.

There are two "wars" that Tir Tairngire has fought in. The best known
is
the Tir invasion of northern California, culminating in the Battle of
Redding. Less well known are the skirmishes fought between early Tir
forces and Sovereign Tribal Council forces. The later is the only case
where Tir Tairngire has been attacked, to date. Not much is known about
those battles, except that several battalions of STC forces were wiped
out. The first died trying to enter Portland and were hit with a
combination of well armed ground forces and limited air support. In fact,
the Tir doesn't seem to have a large air force, but it does seem to have
plenty of ground troops.

>
> I find the source book lacking in this area.

From a wargamers stand point, they're thin on info, for role-playing
purposes it's enough.

>
> I also am interested in knowing what happened at "Creator Lake". I hope
> that is spelled right. Anyway, in the Tir source book, the Elf nation
> next to Calf., it talks about a defense force around the lake. It also
> talks about blindind spy sats. photographing that area. What is this
> about.

Than name is Crator Lake. It's a mountain, an extinct volcano. The lake
formed in the crator at the peak. In r/l it's a national park. In Tir
Tairngire it starts out as a national park. Then something happens there
(we don't know what, probably a power site becoming active) and the Tir
government closes it off... from everything.

>
>
> And finally does anyone know to or have a write up of the vehical in the
> movie "Damm Nation Ally", the after WWIII movie.

Damnation Ally... no stats, but it wouldn't be hard to work up. The
vehicle had some interesting points. It's amphibious, environmentally
sealed, has two missile turrets and at least four machine gun ports that I
can remember. The tire configuration was interesting, three balloon tires
on a rotating axis. If one goes flat it rotates them around so that flat
tire is "up" and two good tires are "down".
--

Ashlocke

"... for this man can say it happened, cause this child has been
condemned. And I'm the only witness to the nature of my crime.
Don't damn me." -- G'N'R
Message no. 7
From: James Lindsay <jlindsay@******.CA>
Subject: Re: CAF and Tir
Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 19:48:29 GMT
On Sat, 10 Jan 1998 11:46:17 -0005, Ashlocke wrote:

> On 6 Jan 98 at 0:37, Kevin Roberts wrote:
>
> > I also am interested in knowing what happened at "Creator Lake". I
hope
> > that is spelled right. Anyway, in the Tir source book, the Elf nation
> > next to Calf., it talks about a defense force around the lake. It also
> > talks about blindind spy sats. photographing that area. What is this
> > about.
>
> Than name is Crator Lake. It's a mountain, an extinct volcano. The lake
> formed in the crator at the peak. In r/l it's a national park. In Tir
> Tairngire it starts out as a national park. Then something happens there
> (we don't know what, probably a power site becoming active) and the Tir
> government closes it off... from everything.

Actually, it's spelled "Crater Lake". Your right that it is an extinct
volcano, though-- one that blew its top in an explosion thousands of times
bigger than nearby Mt. St. Helens many milieu ago. The small cinder cone
at the center of the lake was formed while the volcano was still active and
is named Wizard's Island. It is quite possible, therefore, that it could
live up to it's name in the era of Shadowrun.



James W. Lindsay Vancouver, British Columbia
"http://www.prosperoimaging.com/ground_zero";

Money talks... it usually says "bend over"...
Message no. 8
From: "David R. Lowe" <dlowe@****.COM>
Subject: Re: CAF and Tir
Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 13:24:37 -0800
>On Sat, 10 Jan 1998 11:46:17 -0005, Ashlocke wrote:

>Actually, it's spelled "Crater Lake". Your right that it is an extinct
>volcano, though-- one that blew its top in an explosion thousands of times
>bigger than nearby Mt. St. Helens many milieu ago. The small cinder cone
>at the center of the lake was formed while the volcano was still active and
>is named Wizard's Island. It is quite possible, therefore, that it could
>live up to it's name in the era of Shadowrun.


IIRC, I rember seeing a discussion somewhere else that the activity around
Crater Lake is either due to a discovery of large amounts of True Fire,
Water, etc. and/or naturally ocurring Orichalum, I've also heard it is the
Sixth world resting place of Parlainth or of a Theran floating city
(although the geography is all wrong).

In my campaign its become a weak spot (due to certain factors in our ED
crossover game) in the barrier between the astral and physical, and the
Enemy are starting to come trough. The Tir are clamping down on it to
prevent others from learning about the horrors and because they think they
can control them. Of course they will be wrong, but all in good timeŠ

BTW, if you ever get the chance to get to Crater Lake in RL, I highly
recommend it. It's a beautiful, magical place, even to our fifth world
senses.

D.

David R. Lowe (dlowe@*********.com)
Photography/Design

Hey, there's a URL in my sig file now!
Check it out at: www.lowephoto.com.

--
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Message no. 9
From: James Lindsay <jlindsay@******.CA>
Subject: Re: CAF and Tir
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 16:49:13 GMT
On Sun, 11 Jan 1998 13:24:37 -0800, David R. Lowe wrote:

> BTW, if you ever get the chance to get to Crater Lake in RL, I highly
> recommend it. It's a beautiful, magical place, even to our fifth world
> senses.

Been there. I could not believe the colour of the lake-- now that's
"blue"!



James W. Lindsay Vancouver, British Columbia
"http://www.prosperoimaging.com/ground_zero";

Money talks... it usually says "bend over"...

Further Reading

If you enjoyed reading about CAF and Tir, you may also be interested in:

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These messages were posted a long time ago on a mailing list far, far away. The copyright to their contents probably lies with the original authors of the individual messages, but since they were published in an electronic forum that anyone could subscribe to, and the logs were available to subscribers and most likely non-subscribers as well, it's felt that re-publishing them here is a kind of public service.

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