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Message no. 1
From: The big Cheese <elfman@*****.NET>
Subject: Can an elementalist......
Date: Sun, 12 Oct 1997 19:58:23 -0500
Can an elementalist: cast spells that his element is not able to help
cast(I can't afford to buy the books right now,so I cant make Mike
happy).I know they can only summon certain elementals(Fire elementalist
can only conjure fire elementals,etc,etc,etc).
Message no. 2
From: John E Pederson <lobo1@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Can an elementalist......
Date: Sun, 12 Oct 1997 21:35:11 -0500
On Sun, 12 Oct 1997 19:58:23 -0500 The big Cheese <elfman@*****.NET>
writes:

<<Can an elementalist: cast spells that his element is not able to help
cast>>


No, not exactly, anyway.


<<(I can't afford to buy the books right now,so I cant make Mike
happy).>>


You should check to see if you can get anyone else in your group to buy
books and let you borrow them, then (I just got my own copy of the SR2
manual last June:)


<<I know they can only summon certain elementals(Fire elementalist can
only conjure fire elementals,etc,etc,etc).>>


Correct-amundo:)



--
John Pederson "Oh my God! They killed Kenny!"
aka Canthros, shapeshifter-mage --South Park
lobo1@****.com canthros1@***.com john.e.pederson@***********.edu
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Lair/4864 ICQ UIN 3190186
Message no. 3
From: Justin Pinnow <vanyel@*******.NET>
Subject: Re: Can an elementalist......
Date: Sun, 12 Oct 1997 23:25:04 -0400
> From: The big Cheese <elfman@*****.NET>
> Date: Sunday, October 12, 1997 8:58 PM

> Can an elementalist: cast spells that his element is not able to help
> cast(I can't afford to buy the books right now,so I cant make Mike
> happy).I know they can only summon certain elementals(Fire elementalist
> can only conjure fire elementals,etc,etc,etc).

This is what an elementalist can do:

Conjure/control/banish elementals if his alignment (earth, air, fire, or
water, as appropriate).

They may cast spells of the category appropriate to their element:

Air - Detection
Earth - Manipulation (physical, matter-based only)
Fire - Combat
Water - Illusion

They CANNOT cast spells within their category if any elemental effect is
involved other than the ones belonging to their particular element (a fire
elementalist could never cast spells (even combat spells) that had the
elemental effects of ice, blast, etc.). They CAN cast spells outside their
category as long as the spell includes one of their elemental effects.

Elementalists also have full access to the Astral Plane (both perception
and projection).

That about sums them up.

Justin :)
Message no. 4
From: Matb <mbreton@**.NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Re: Can an elementalist......
Date: Sat, 11 Oct 1997 13:29:31 -0700
> They CANNOT cast spells within their category if any elemental effect > is
involved other than the ones belonging to their particular element > (a fire
elementalist could never cast spells (even combat spells) that > had the elemental
effects of ice, blast, etc.). They CAN cast spells > outside their category as long as
the spell includes one of their > elemental effects.

Just beware of abuses to the system: it's not too difficult to
incorporate elemental effects into any spell (eg, a Physical Mask/fire
spell, the image will always be smoking a cigarette..).

Oh, it does get silly sometimes..


-Mb
Message no. 5
From: Czar Eggbert <czregbrt@*********.EDU>
Subject: Re: Can an elementalist......
Date: Mon, 13 Oct 1997 00:02:50 -0500
>
> Elementalists also have full access to the Astral Plane (both perception
> and projection).
>
OK.. Just a thought, If an Elementalist and a Shamanic Adept both
have FULL ACCESS to the Astral Plane, then why would anyone EVER play an
Astral Adept?

-=>Czar
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Czar Eggbert
Ruler, Dark Side of the Moon.
homepage: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/5648
mailto:czregbrt@*********.edu
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Reality!? Is that some new game?"
-MDF
"I'll need morphine, lots of it, and a pistol."
-The English Patient
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Message no. 6
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Can an elementalist......
Date: Mon, 13 Oct 1997 09:35:32 +0100
And verily, did The big Cheese hastily scribble thusly...
|
|Can an elementalist: cast spells that his element is not able to help
|cast(I can't afford to buy the books right now,so I cant make Mike
|happy).I know they can only summon certain elementals(Fire elementalist
|can only conjure fire elementals,etc,etc,etc).
|

In a word, no.
That's the limit on elemental adepts.
--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| Windows95 (noun): 32 bit extensions and a |
| | graphical shell for a 16 bit patch to an 8 bit |
|Andrew Halliwell | operating system originally coded for a 4 bit |
|Principal Subjects in:- |microprocessor, written by a 2 bit company, that|
|Comp Sci & Electronics | can't stand 1 bit of competition. |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
Message no. 7
From: Justin Pinnow <vanyel@*******.NET>
Subject: Re: Can an elementalist......
Date: Mon, 13 Oct 1997 07:21:21 -0400
> From: Matb <mbreton@**.NETCOM.COM>
> Date: Saturday, October 11, 1997 4:29 PM

> > They CANNOT cast spells within their category if any elemental effect >
is involved other than the ones belonging to their particular element > (a
fire elementalist could never cast spells (even combat spells) that > had
the elemental effects of ice, blast, etc.). They CAN cast spells > outside
their category as long as the spell includes one of their > elemental
effects.

> Just beware of abuses to the system: it's not too difficult to
> incorporate elemental effects into any spell (eg, a Physical Mask/fire
> spell, the image will always be smoking a cigarette..).

> Oh, it does get silly sometimes..

No, actually, it doesn't - if you follow the rules. Here's the rule that
nips that in the bud: a spell MUST include one of the appropriate
elemental effects AND/OR be in the magician's aligned spell category AND
not have ANY elemental effects other than those aligned with the caster.
See, an elemental effect is intrisic to the spell. In order for a spell to
have an elemental effect, it MUST say it has that elemental effect in the
spell description (the paragraph of text part). The titles of some spells
are misleading. If you look up the Physical Mask spell, you will notice
that the spell doesn't have ANY elemental effects. No matter WHAT you do
with that spell, it still won't have ANY elemental effects. Period. You
would have to redesign the spell if you wanted that. Thus, ONLY an Water
Elementalist would have access to the Physical Mask spell (it's an Illusion
spell, thus falls into the category of Water) as far as Elementalists are
concerned.

The rule about elemental effects needing to be stated in the paragraph
describing the spell is in the grimmy, I believe, but not with the
Elemental Adepts....it's somewhere describing the makeup of spells, etc.
It might be in the BBB, but it sure keeps Elementalists in line.

> -Mb

Justin :)
Message no. 8
From: Justin Pinnow <vanyel@*******.NET>
Subject: Re: Can an elementalist......
Date: Mon, 13 Oct 1997 07:26:31 -0400
> From: Czar Eggbert <czregbrt@*********.EDU>
> Date: Monday, October 13, 1997 1:02 AM

<Snip>

> OK.. Just a thought, If an Elementalist and a Shamanic Adept both
> have FULL ACCESS to the Astral Plane, then why would anyone EVER play an
> Astral Adept?

Astral Adepts aren't really canon, but are very fun to include sometimes.
Steve Kenson has a list of non-canon, yet playable adepts on the web (try
Paolo's site). According to that text, an Astral Adept only costs 5
character creation points (using the point system from the SR Companion).
That's mighty cheap, if you ask me, for both Astral Perception and
Projection.

And while his description says that they use all magical skills as
mundanes, I would rule that like all other beings with the ability to
astrally project, they can use the sorcery skill as if they were magically
active while on the astral plane. (This just keeps things following the
same path, if you know what I mean.)

His list includes lots of neat adepts and rules for Talents that make
sense. I keep the list with my house rules at all times, and have only
made one or two modifications to it at all. You should really check it
out. :)

> -=>Czar

Justin :)
Message no. 9
From: Mike Bobroff <AirWisp@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Can an elementalist......
Date: Mon, 13 Oct 1997 07:52:39 -0400
In a message dated 97-10-12 20:54:02 EDT, you write:

> Can an elementalist: cast spells that his element is not able to help
> cast(I can't afford to buy the books right now,so I cant make Mike
> happy).I know they can only summon certain elementals(Fire elementalist
> can only conjure fire elementals,etc,etc,etc).

Elementalist are adepts that can only cast spells from their respective
areas, please note though, a gm could also include Mental and Telekinetic
Manipulations also to the elementalist adept if they allow it.

-Mike
Message no. 10
From: Brett Borger <bxb121@***.EDU>
Subject: Re: Can an elementalist......
Date: Mon, 13 Oct 1997 08:39:17 +0000
> > OK.. Just a thought, If an Elementalist and a Shamanic Adept both
> > have FULL ACCESS to the Astral Plane, then why would anyone EVER play an
> > Astral Adept?
>
> Astral Adepts aren't really canon, but are very fun to include sometimes.
> Steve Kenson has a list of non-canon, yet playable adepts on the web (try
> Paolo's site). According to that text, an Astral Adept only costs 5

BUZZZZT! I'm sorry, that's incorrect. But thanks for playing and we
have some lovely parting gifts for you.

The "canon" Astral adept is listed in Awakenings. Full Astral
access.

(And yes, there is a question as to why such an adept is as costly as
A shamanic/elemental Adept who has full astral Access plus. Perhaps
<house rule> Give Astral adepts Psychometry equal to Magic
rating?</house rule> Of course, I say <house rule> that Psychometry
is used as centering to augment Intelligence, rather than replace
</house rule>

The Astral Perception Edge can be bought by a character (if you use
Kenson's original intent and not the screwed up edited version. Did
later printings fix this?) for 5(?) Character points at creation.
THis offers Perception only.

(I'm not up-to-date on any Web-only things Steve has posted)

-=SwiftOne=-
Brett Borger
SwiftOne@***.edu
AAP Techie
Message no. 11
From: John E Pederson <lobo1@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Can an elementalist......
Date: Mon, 13 Oct 1997 01:11:33 -0500
On Mon, 13 Oct 1997 00:02:50 -0500 Czar Eggbert <czregbrt@*********.EDU>
writes:
>>
>> Elementalists also have full access to the Astral Plane (both
>perception
>> and projection).
>>
> OK.. Just a thought, If an Elementalist and a Shamanic Adept
>both
>have FULL ACCESS to the Astral Plane, then why would anyone EVER play
>an
>Astral Adept?


By the book, the only reason would be style. If you have adjusted the
priorities to make a little more sense (standard [from SRII and GRII]
adepts at 'B', Astral Adept at 'C', etc), then is a reason beyond that.
Otherwise ...



--
John Pederson "Oh my God! They killed Kenny!"
aka Canthros, shapeshifter-mage --South Park
lobo1@****.com canthros1@***.com john.e.pederson@***********.edu
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Lair/4864 ICQ UIN 3190186
Message no. 12
From: Drekhead <drekhead@***.NET>
Subject: Re: Can an elementalist......
Date: Mon, 13 Oct 1997 09:30:16 +0500
On 13 Oct 97 at 0:02, Czar Eggbert wrote:

> OK.. Just a thought, If an Elementalist and a Shamanic Adept both
> have FULL ACCESS to the Astral Plane, then why would anyone EVER
> play an Astral Adept?

Their cheaper. Priority C, or 5 Build Points.

--
drekhead@***.net
++++
Sig file lost.
++++
Message no. 13
From: David Thompson <david.s.thompson@****.EDU>
Subject: Re: Can an elementalist......
Date: Mon, 13 Oct 1997 16:22:51 -0400
At 12:02 AM 10/13/97 -0500, you wrote:
>>
>> Elementalists also have full access to the Astral Plane (both perception
>> and projection).
>>
> OK.. Just a thought, If an Elementalist and a Shamanic Adept both
>have FULL ACCESS to the Astral Plane, then why would anyone EVER play an
>Astral Adept?
>

Because according to the rules Steve Kenson posted on Paolo's Archive,
being an Astral Adept only costs 5 build points. That is a rule I've used
independantly for a while also.

The next question is, can you then be a physical adept who can astrally
project for a cost of 20 build points. I know that may be seriously scary
and many will cringe, but on a more general level, I like the idea of
mixing and matching major and minor adept powers. You can come up with
more varied characters. As it stands, there are maybe 6 or 7 different
options, but when you have Enchanting adepts who can project and conjure
watchers for a total of like 13 BP's, things get more interesting.
Personally, I like the rule that you can have as many minor adept powers as
you want, but only 1 major power (major powers are full mage/shaman, or any
of the adepts except astral and enchanting). Any thoughts?

--DT
Message no. 14
From: Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: Can an elementalist......
Date: Mon, 13 Oct 1997 22:06:35 +0100
And verily, did Justin Pinnow hastily scribble thusly...
|
|> From: Czar Eggbert <czregbrt@*********.EDU>
|> Date: Monday, October 13, 1997 1:02 AM
|
|<Snip>
|
|> OK.. Just a thought, If an Elementalist and a Shamanic Adept both
|> have FULL ACCESS to the Astral Plane, then why would anyone EVER play an
|> Astral Adept?
|
|Astral Adepts aren't really canon, but are very fun to include sometimes.

They aren't?
I was always under the impression that ANYTHING in a rule book was
considered to be cannon...


--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|u5a77@*****.cs.keele.ac.uk| Windows95 (noun): 32 bit extensions and a |
| | graphical shell for a 16 bit patch to an 8 bit |
|Andrew Halliwell | operating system originally coded for a 4 bit |
|Principal Subjects in:- |microprocessor, written by a 2 bit company, that|
|Comp Sci & Electronics | can't stand 1 bit of competition. |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|GCv3.1 GCS/EL>$ d---(dpu) s+/- a- C++ U N++ o+ K- w-- M+/++ PS+++ PE- Y t+ |
|5++ X+/++ R+ tv+ b+ D G e>PhD h/h+ !r! !y-|I can't say F**K either now! :( |
Message no. 15
From: Tim Cooper <z-i-m@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Can an elementalist......
Date: Mon, 13 Oct 1997 19:20:58 EDT
On Mon, 13 Oct 1997 22:06:35 +0100 Spike <u5a77@*****.CS.KEELE.AC.UK>
writes:

>They aren't?
>I was always under the impression that ANYTHING in a rule book was
>considered to be cannon...

Well maybe in the heavy weapons section....but I don't know about
*everything*...

:)

~Tim
Message no. 16
From: Matb <mbreton@**.NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Re: Can an elementalist......
Date: Sun, 12 Oct 1997 11:02:02 -0700
> > > They CANNOT cast spells within their category if any elemental effect >
> is involved other than the ones belonging to their particular element > (a
> fire elementalist could never cast spells (even combat spells) that > had
> the elemental effects of ice, blast, etc.). They CAN cast spells > outside
> their category as long as the spell includes one of their > elemental
> effects.

> > Just beware of abuses to the system: it's not too difficult to
> > incorporate elemental effects into any spell (eg, a Physical Mask/fire
> > spell, the image will always be smoking a cigarette..).

> > Oh, it does get silly sometimes..

> No, actually, it doesn't - if you follow the rules. No matter WHAT you do
> with that spell, it still won't have ANY elemental effects. Period. You
> would have to redesign the spell if you wanted that.

Nail. Head. Hit. Do you understand now?

It may mean that a spell has to be re-designed, during gameplay than
character creation. But -- if you choose to allow this (and I do *not*)
all you end up with is a +1 Drain (iirc) penalty for casting outside
your 'circle'.

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